LH600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 158 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6578 times:
The article says its from June 14 to August 31 because 'Iranian authorities have announced they will not provide fuel to Austrian and other European airlines during that timeframe.'
Weren't the European airlines already making fuel stops? Any news about other airlines? LH, KL, BA...
ju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6539 times:
So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.
cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 7709 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4937 times:
Quoting chieft (Reply 5): LH and KLM are using long haul aircraft on its IKA flights and thus do necessarily require a fuel stop.
If my previous post on the subject hadn't been deleted (I accidentally referred to the reason for the fuel stops, oops), you would have been able to read that KLM fly the MD-11 and / or A330-200 to IKA, both of which are indeed long-haul aircraft, and used to stop for fuel in Athens. However they now operate nonstop, which is only possible if they can buy fuel in IKA. And the only way that would be possible is if Iran Air can buy fuel in AMS. What would be nice to learn is how sensible people have prevailed at AMS, and perhaps something similar can happen everywhere else. These fuel stops achieve nothing because no-one (except, perhaps, OS) has dropped IKA as a destination, and Iran Air still serve the ports across Europe they served before the fuel embargo. All that is achieved is a big waste of fuel, time, and a lot of harmful emissions that contribute no benefit.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
a300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4400 times:
FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.
FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
Quoting a300 (Reply 12): FRA-LAX is 9343 km, which gets LH A340-600 and B747-400 non-stop.
FRA-IKA is 3784 km by great circle route. The total round trip distant would be less than 8000 km. I suspect that with a full fuel load out of FRA, a refueling in Tehran could be avoided.
Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?
Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4033 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 13): Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?
Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?
The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.
CRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2080 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3912 times:
Perhaps max landing weight is a consideration when landing at IKA with enough fuel for the return trip in the tanks. Bigger aircraft probably have more flexibility with this as they have huge tanks and high MLW number...?
An OS A320 or B737 probably takes a big payload restriction if tanks are full + they must be within max landing weight at IKA.
ju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3850 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 13): Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?
Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.
bwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 675 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3769 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 13): Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?
Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.
laca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3749 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3760 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):
Don't forget that Lufthansa has a massive network which can probably guarantee such aircraft. Also I am sure they get a share of the Iran>US market.
This makes sense. Thanks for mentioning that. Being from Santa Monica, I'd be very interested to know what airline people fly on for the most part going to IKA. Since TK and EK started service to LAX, I'd be surprised to not see a good portion of those using IST and DXB to transfer into IKA.
Quoting bwaflyer (Reply 17):
Even little old bmi manage to fill a daily 149 seat A321 to the rafters.
Very true.
Quoting chieft (Reply 14):
The main reason using the large planes is the refueling issue. But there is also a huge demand.
That does make sense, especially if Iran won't allow Western airlines refuel there.
lh600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 158 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3667 times:
Quoting laca773 (Reply 13): Is there a demand for these routes to be served with 744/346/333/76W, etc.? It seems like way too much capacity or does it all work out in the end since they fly the routes in the middle of the night when the a/c would sit idle otherwise?
Who mainly flies Iran Air? Is it mainly Iranian citizens sticking to their homeland airline?
I regularly fly LH600/601 connecting SFO-FRA-IKA and flights are usually full. IR is also very popular among expats in the US and EU.
Semaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 769 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3480 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 1): So they are targeting the European airlines during the busiest period - smart move. I wonder what impact this might have on the Middle Eastern carriers and if their loads will improve to/from Iran.
It'd be yet another sanction "the west" has put up which turns out to hurt nobody but its own industry.
Quoting chieft (Reply 7): Mishap, sorry. I meant: do not necessarily require a fuel stop.
If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3315 times:
Quoting Semaex (Reply 20): If Iran is going to deny fuel, and time-wise it's not smart to make a stop in, say ATH, it's all about the MLAM restriction and the consideration, whether carrying the fuel for the home-trip already on the outbound is a smart move financially.
Well, the basic question is, if you have the choice.
If you cannot get fuel on your destination and if you want to avoid further costs related to additional landings, then it is definitely cheaper, if you have the right aircraft, to take the inbound fuel on the outbound flight already. The fuel on your forced fuel stop must be very cheap to satisfy an additonal landing. Don't speak about the inconvenience for your pax.
LOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 984 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (10 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3018 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 26): Due to higher costs Austrian has been moving its operations onto its Tyrolean brand. Most, if not all, flights are operated by Tyrolean now.
All OS flights are now operated by Tyrolean, but still carry the OS code.
IR800 From Iran, joined May 2009, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2909 times:
Quoting lh600 (Reply 11): Can anyone confirm that KL is buying fuel in IKA?
Yes, KLM does buy fuel from Iran Air (not directly from the fuel provider company) at IKA, and so does Iran Air at AMS.
The same applies to Alitalia at IKA and Iran Air at MXP. Austrian also used to buy fuel at IKA, and sell to Iran Air at VIE till recent weeks.
Note that Lufthansa has been using 744s for this route since before they couldn't buy fuel, and sure they have much demand for it.
Now it is said that Tyrolean Airways will start this route again, served nonstop by A320.
cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 7709 posts, RR: 55 Reply 31, posted (10 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
Re demand on this route, Lufty used 747s (and A340s) to Tehran before the fuel nonsense, so yes, they need the capacity. Most of the traffic connects to LA (aka "Tehrangeles" - nearly 1m Iranians live there). Remember, before the type was banned by the EU, IR flew 747-100, -200 and SP to many European cities. And KLM are still flying MD-11 / A330 to IKA even though they can now buy fuel at IKA. Air Asia and China Southern fly in, unnoticed in all the contraversy re European carriers.
The portrayal of Iran in our media leads us to think of the country as a political metaphor but remember it is also a reasonably wealthy nation of 80 million people with lots of mineral and energy wealth, with other industries (agriculture, plastics, defence, inbound tourism, rugs, caviar etc). So no reason why there shouldn't be lots of air traffic.
PS it's been near the top of Cathay's wish list for years, true story. A brief period of political stability is all it will take to launch the route.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2606 times:
Quoting IR800 (Reply 29): Yes, KLM does buy fuel from Iran Air (not directly from the fuel provider company) at IKA, and so does Iran Air at AMS.
The same applies to Alitalia at IKA and Iran Air at MXP. Austrian also used to buy fuel at IKA, and sell to Iran Air at VIE till recent weeks.
Note that Lufthansa has been using 744s for this route since before they couldn't buy fuel, and sure they have much demand for it.
Now it is said that Tyrolean Airways will start this route again, served nonstop by A320.
jumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2472 times:
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 28): Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.
I doubt it - BA operated the routes in its own right many years ago - then they farmed it out to BMED who operated it as a franchisee in BA colours - which in turn was sold to BMI who took over the route. So as with other routes like BEI operated for some time by BMED its full circle for these routes and I guess BA will keep them running - assuming they are still profitable.
cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 7709 posts, RR: 55 Reply 36, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2417 times:
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 28): Will IKA be a casualty of the BA takeover of BD?.
No way, that A321 is full every night, and fares are very high for a (only) 4h30m flight. Yield yield yield. Btw when BA used to fly to THR, the metal was 767-300ER. Not saying it'll upguage from the A321, the two countries don't even have diplomatic relations (embassies etc) but no way will BA leave the route.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
IR800 From Iran, joined May 2009, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2343 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 35): It is really great to see them being able to refuel in Rome! I hope more airports follow...
I hope so too! Note that Iran Air has suspended FCO, and only use this airport as a refueling option.
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36): Not saying it'll upguage from the A321, the two countries don't even have diplomatic relations (embassies etc) but no way will BA leave the route.
Most of BMI passengers are transit travellers to North America. So it is not unlikely that BA will upgrade the route to B767. Maybe so they could avoid the fuel stop too! (not sure if 767 could do the return route without refueling)
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 31): A brief period of political stability is all it will take to launch the route.
Quoting IR800 (Reply 37): Note that Iran Air has suspended FCO, and only use this airport as a refueling option.
Isn't there enough market for Iran Air to launch FCO flights? If they are routing some of their flights via Rome, why not make some money on the sector?
LH600 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 158 posts, RR: 1 Reply 40, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1919 times:
Quoting ju068 (Reply 39): Isn't there enough market for Iran Air to launch FCO flights? If they are routing some of their flights via Rome, why not make some money on the sector?
IR used to operate THR/IKA- FCO for a long time. Not sure why it was cancelled.
bwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 675 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1837 times:
Quoting IR800 (Reply 37): Most of BMI passengers are transit travellers to North America. So it is not unlikely that BA will upgrade the route to B767. Maybe so they could avoid the fuel stop too! (not sure if 767 could do the return route without refueling)
Even if it could, it would need to stop to swap crew, since the suspension of diplomatic relations, crew are not permitted to stay in Tehran.
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36): No way, that A321 is full every night, and fares are very high for a (only) 4h30m flight
non-stop flying time IKA-LHR is around 6 hours (with holding at LHR can reach 6:30!), not bad for an A321. Currently flying times are 1:15 IKA=EVN, and 4:45 - 5:15 EVN-LHR with around 45mins in EVN.
flySFO From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 92 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1801 times:
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 36): Btw when BA used to fly to THR, the metal was 767-300ER.
I flew SFO-LHR-THR-LHR-SFO on BA back in 1997. I recall the second leg being operated LHR-LCA-THR-LHR triangle, can anyone confirm this? I specifically remember a 45 minute stop in Larnaca (we stayed on the plane) on the way to Tehran but not on the return. Was this a B767-300?
chieft From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1575 times:
Austrian will resume Tehran service from 22.08.12, 11 days earlier than planned.
The airline will operate 3 weekly flights, and increases to 5 weekly from September on.
They previously operated 5 weekly flights prior to suspension
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