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US/AA Merger Update  
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 31701 times:

Googled information to see if anything new was going on and came across this. Looks like if anything does happen it wont be this year, US seems to be backing off a little.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...sairways-amr-idINL2E8I47LN20120704

264 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 31564 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Thread starter):
Looks like if anything does happen it wont be this year, US seems to be backing off a little.

I think DP is getting an earful from a number of his Phoenix backers, and his courtship with the AA execs is getting a little complicated with Boeing's involvement.



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlinelucky777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 30825 times:

It sounds to me as if LCC has lost a great deal of momentum recently with regards to the hostile takeover attempt. I still think this merger/takeover will ultimately happen, but my guess is AA will be the ones calling the shots shortly after they exit bankruptcy and not Doug Parker and the boys in Tempe.

User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 30510 times:

I hope doug Parker calls the shots. I DISLIKE AA CEO!!!!!

User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 28399 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 2):
but my guess is AA will be the ones calling the shots shortly after they exit bankruptcy and not Doug Parker and the boys in Tempe.

That's exactly what it is...just a guess. The truth is, the bankruptcy courts will be the ones calling the shots on if and how AA emerges from Chap.11



.......
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 28161 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 3):
I hope doug Parker calls the shots. I DISLIKE AA CEO!!!!!

And yet there are many more who feel the same about Doug Parker...


User currently offlinemilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 27938 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 3):
I hope doug Parker calls the shots. I DISLIKE AA CEO!!!!!

Question just for you: What is it you dislike about Tom Horton?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 27694 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 5):
Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 3):
I hope doug Parker calls the shots. I DISLIKE AA CEO!!!!!

And yet there are many more who feel the same about Doug Parker...

I dislike both    Maybe as terms of AA's exit from BK and US's merger with AA they should completely overhaul their executives.



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3367 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 27192 times:

I don't think US is backing off (as in not that interested in merging). What I think is that they are waiting for the right moment to strike. I don't think Doug wants to rush and insist on merger: that might make the courts grant AA what they want instead. The intentions have been made clear: let's wait to see when they'll act on them.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 27164 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):

I dislike both Maybe as terms of AA's exit from BK and US's merger with AA they should completely overhaul their executives.

I wish UA and CO would've done the same!


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 26421 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):

That is exactly what's going on here . Parker in no way has backed off . It's all a process . It needs to play out this way .


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 25897 times:

I still think US management will somehow end up running the show....but glad they are not rushing into anything. US is doing pretty good now as it is...I like that they are taking this approach. I still think we will see them merge sometime probably next year. Hope it turns out like NW/DL did, and not like CO/UA, which from accounts from here seem like dissapointment.

User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7116 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 25833 times:

I think that ultimately AA and US will have difficulty both surviving independently, but I believe they are probably the worst possible merger candidates (at least with each other). It reminds me of the Hitler-Stalin pact, and I suspect it will be almost as successful.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 25529 times:
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Quoting SEPilot (Reply 12):
It reminds me of the Hitler-Stalin pact, and I suspect it will be almost as successful.

That's a little bit extreme, don't you think? It is in poor taste, anyway.


User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 25391 times:

Quoting milemaster (Reply 6):

He's cocky and thinks nothing is wrong with AA when clearly there a broke airline

I read this in the Charlotte observer 3 months ago I would love to find it


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8764 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 25320 times:

There has not been a 'mea culpa' from AA management that would show they are on the same page as Wall Street in terms of how to run a company.

So, how do you trust AA management with any serious amount of money. Their ideas in the recent past were not any good. The greatest promise lies in eliminating AA management IMO.

[Edited 2012-07-08 11:11:51]

User currently offlinemilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 25085 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 14):
He's cocky and thinks nothing is wrong with AA when clearly there a broke airline

I read this in the Charlotte observer 3 months ago I would love to find it

So, you are basing your opinion on an opinion piece article you read 3 months ago in a local newspaper? A paper that is printed in a US hub city that would could be negatively affected by an AMR led acquisition? Got it.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 25067 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 14):
He's cocky and thinks nothing is wrong with AA when clearly there a broke airline

I read this in the Charlotte observer 3 months ago I would love to find it
Quoting Flighty (Reply 15):
There has not been a 'mea culpa' from AA management that would show they are on the same page as Wall Street in terms of how to run a company.

So, how do you trust AA management with any serious amount of money. Their ideas in the recent past were not any good. The greatest promise lies in eliminating AA management IMO.

What will be interesting is who winds up with the stock of AMR upon exit from Chapter 11 (for the sake of argument, it won't be US). Often, the management team that guides a company throught the Chapter 11 process isn't the team that runs the company after exit.

If AMR is owned by its largest creditors (exchaning debt for equity is common for a company exiting Chapter 11), you may see a new management team upon exit, particularly if the unions have a substantial share of the company.

Granted, the unions want to merge with US, but they may be discussing with other large creditors some potential candidates for senior positions (CEO, COO, CFO, and so on) for when AA prepares to exit.

I'm not a financial whiz, but the main issue with AA is cost (regardless whether it's labor, aircraft leases, fuel). AA's costs are simply too high, compared to what it can charge for air fare and cargo. The rest of the business model is very workable, provided that it can get a cost structure similar to UA and DL.

The 5 cornerstones are large markets that have significant corporate contract opportunities. ATI with BA/IB/JA allow them to fly a fair amount of traffic to their hubs, while AA can look for routes from the cornerstones that make sense, espcially with the 777-300s allowing AA to reshuffle both the 777-200s and 767-300s. Assuming that the APA approves the TA, that allows AA to finalize the order for 787s, which allows AA to expand while scheduling retirement dates for the oldest 767-300s.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7116 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 24957 times:

Quoting vhtje (Reply 13):
That's a little bit extreme, don't you think? It is in poor taste, anyway.

Yes, it is. But when I think of them joining forces that is the only analogy that comes to mind.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 24654 times:

Quoting milemaster (Reply 16):
So, you are basing your opinion on an opinion piece article you read 3 months ago in a local newspaper? A paper that is printed in a US hub city that would could be negatively affected by an AMR led acquisition? Got it.

Have you ever read the Observer? They hate US. It's like that a lot in hub cities. The Star Tribune does the same thing with DL in Minneapolis, it's a nonstop bashfest.


User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 24441 times:

Today, I learned that current CEO of US Airways is a 3-time DUI convict (arrested on 3 separate occasions for drinking and driving - the last time when CEO of US Airways). Could this be a factor in American/US Airways merger decision?


Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 2000 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 24297 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
I don't think US is backing off (as in not that interested in merging). What I think is that they are waiting for the right moment to strike. I don't think Doug wants to rush and insist on merger: that might make the courts grant AA what they want instead. The intentions have been made clear: let's wait to see when they'll act on them.

Maybe he just got wise and realized it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense to merge AFTER AA exits from BK and has their s*it together.

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 14):
Quoting milemaster (Reply 6):

He's cocky and thinks nothing is wrong with AA when clearly there a broke airline

Considering he's the one bringing AA through BK, I seriously doubt he thinks nothing is wrong with AA as is.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4141 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 24164 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 21):
Maybe he just got wise and realized it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense to merge AFTER AA exits from BK and has their s*it together.

Doubt it, because he wants to be in charge. Some things about Parker are arguable but the fact he has a huge ego is not.

If AA comes knocking after their bankruptcy, unless Parker ends up running the show I fully expect him to stonewall on the offer.


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1111 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 24146 times:

Quoting September11 (Reply 20):

That is completely false . He has only been arrested and convicted once . And this is no way has anything to do with the process of the merger .


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 900 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 24142 times:

The reality of BK is that it is an incredibly slow agonizing process in which you have to dot every "i" and cross every "t". Throw in the complexity of a merger and it becomes that much more of a complex process. I think Parker has realized that letting AA get their own house in order , while btw Parker should do the same for US, then make a move on AA would be prudent.

Another possibility I see here is that the secured creditors have told Parker to back off until AA presents its own plan and sorts out their relationship with the unions. Boeing is on record as saying they want US to back off until AA has a chance to submit its own changes.


25 milemaster : Actually it's not false in the least. He's had two DUI convictions in Texas and the more recent one in Arizona. Not that it's any of our business unl
26 phxa340 : Milemaster is correct however, he was 29 years old when it happened in Texas (Not saying a DUI is ever OK) but it does go to show that your past can
27 chepos : People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Let's start digging in everyones closet and see what we find. I'm sure we will find many of y
28 Post contains links aztrainer : Very possible as well as the fact that he could of made some of the backers in Phoenix and Tempe mad with his statement of moving to Texas IF they do
29 Post contains images phxa340 : The only problem with that is that were not CEOs of multi million dollar corporations whose decisions effect 1000s of people
30 Post contains images incitatus : I completely agree with that. I also think those who don't live in glass houses should have the privilege Having a DWI conviction, or just driving wh
31 lucky777 : If i'm not mistaken, the night the Delta creditors told Parker and company to go pound sand, he drank himself into a real bender and was arrested in
32 milemaster : It is true that his arrest happened the same day, but I wouldn't call a blood alcohol content of .096 after leaving a golf tournament any sort of "be
33 September11 : oh, double DUI conviction in the state of TEXAS.. That's worsening, is it?? Was he employed by American Airlines at time of his first 2 DUI mishaps?
34 CapEd388 : Of course hes gonna be optimistic about AA, hes their CEO. Hes the main spokesperson and representative for the company. What do you want him to say
35 HPRamper : Of course people jump on the DUI bandwagon, regardless of the fact that is has zero bearing on anything. Have you seen the people we have elected Pres
36 lucky777 : You would be speaking of the Bush clan no doubt, correct?
37 HPRamper : Partially. Before that it was Clinton, who while having a relatively clean record had his personal moral shortcomings. The point is that someone can
38 PHX787 : This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Of course DP is a bit eccentric but a simple DUI isn't enough to disqualify him for the role of CEO. W
39 Post contains images slvrblt : Also....courts (judges) take a very dim view of outsiders meddling, or ''stirring the pot'' in their court proceedings. I doubt Judge Lane has viewed
40 JFKPurser : Two critical points above -- neither of which is lost on the UCC. This week we will see some major movement toward the US takeover. From what I am to
41 phxa340 : From what is being reported in the media , this is completely false. In fact , this week demonstrates US backing away temporarily from AA. I understa
42 aztrainer : True, but how many times has the media been wrong? It would make sense to keep a low profile and deny that anything is going to happen. US could also
43 milemaster : My opinion is that US has been the exact opposite of what would be considered to be a low profile until now. Why start downplaying things after up-pl
44 phxa340 : JFKPurser has often mentioned how this merger is imminent and how big news is always forthcoming , yet it never comes to reality ... so take what he
45 JFKPurser : Everything you are reading in the media is to be taken with a grain of salt. People writing these articles know only half the story. They are reporti
46 aztrainer : I agree and think that this is more the case. They still need to solidify the US problems before taking on AA's no matter how smooth that could be. I
47 incitatus : This statement has no basis because due diligence for a US/AA merger has not been done. There is nothing to compare AMR's standalone plan to. Keep on
48 JFKPurser : I never said due diligence was done. It is coming one step close to happening based on what is occurring behind the scenes now. But fine. Don't pay an
49 ckfred : The fact that AA's unions have agreements with US doesn't mean a merger will happen. I know some AA pilots who, while having little confidence in Hort
50 TWA85 : What makes the US merger plan so superior to AA's stand alone plan. Is it only becuase the new AA will be of comparable size to DL and UA? AA doesn't
51 milesrich : Perhaps extreme, perhaps in poor taste, but I am not so sure of that, and very clever.
52 SEPilot : And people who live in stone houses shouldn't throw pneumatic hammers. The point of it is that character DOES matter (something a lot of politicians
53 phxa340 : Great quote from the NY Times “In its quest to acquire American Airlines, US Airways sounds like a teenager with its first credit card, spending mon
54 JFKPurser : Wow. If I recall, I never claimed the merger was "imminent". I have claimed since the beginning when Parker secured TAs with each of AMR's three unio
55 JFKPurser : These comments reveal the true depth of your ignorance. In order for US to achieve anything material, it needed first to achieve these agreements in
56 B377 : I have been reading your comments regarding the pros for US merging with AA for quite some time. I finally am tired of your constant Union banter. Yo
57 LDVAviation : So what? You assume incorrectly that Parker can come up with a convincing business plan after accounting for the higher structural costs associated w
58 AAIL86 : Really? After what happened to the world economy in '08-'09? I understand that AA is not a completely functional enterprise at present, but they cont
59 einsteinboricua : I think he's referring to the fact that they have been making losses for quite sometime. Many Wall Street companies have managed to make even a decen
60 Post contains links miaami : Interesting article on possible reasons that AA is delaying merger talks. http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/07/...-us-airways-dance-around-a-merger/ It
61 incitatus : Isn't my name, according to you, Mr. Swelbar? That is exactly my point you are contesting. No due diligence = no comparison. Stop saying US has a sup
62 LDVAviation : I thought I was William Swelbar? LOL. Personally, I think we have been arguing with Laura Glading all along. When she's not negotiating the APFA into
63 Post contains links JFKPurser : Thanks, Bill. Regards, Laura Seriously, though --in defense of my real suspicions concerning your true indedntity -- fork what it's worth, the reason
64 Post contains links ckfred : Here's an interesting opinion piece that was in the Sunday Business section of the Chicago Tribune. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...a-west-airl
65 mikey72 : Can I just knock on the door, sneak in for a few seconds and ask where this all will end regards alliances/joint ventures etc?
66 USAF336TFS : I couldn't agree with you more. There will be cuts, regardless of what Mr. Parker is claiming and it is conceivable that the majority may (emphasis a
67 milemaster : The math in Parker's proposal doesn't work, it's really just that simple. The end.
68 HPRamper : All the HP employees I knew got raises. And sustantial ones. It just took a couple years after the merger for the labor groups to move from TA to rea
69 miaami : Mr Parker has already stated that : Combined airline to retain the name American Airlines DFW will remain AA HDQ and Oneworld will be the alliance.
70 HPRamper : US would probably be more useful to oneworld than Star at this point anyway. Even without a merger they should switch alliances.
71 Flighty : Fewer cuts to senior labor payscales. But otherwise, the whole US plan is to cut AA other than fuel, maintenance and flight crews. AA could never get
72 mikey72 : Thanks.
73 USAF336TFS : HP I think that says it all. I'm not as optimistic as you are apparently. If you work for US, then I hope, for your colleagues sakes, I'm wrong. But
74 phxa340 : Unless you work for Boeing , I will call you out on this one right now. Boeing is a public company. If they say something for the public to hear and
75 USAF336TFS : They are also a private company and they aren't obliged to do anything that is diametrically opposed to their self interest, which may include, suppo
76 flyguy89 : Make it 7. As I said before, I think AA will merge in the long-term scheme of things, but letting AA emerge as a healthier merger partner from BK wil
77 stlgph : Tom Horton is now coming out saying "we're ready to merge." US is the obvious #1, but I wouldn't be surprised to see UCal Holdings get involved.
78 phxa340 : Full Disclosure : As laid out by the SEC for all publically traded companies "Requirement to disclose all material facts relevant to a transaction" A
79 TWA85 : Horton never really planned on not merging. He just wanted AA to merge wihen AA was ready to merge and not whenever US deemed AA was ready to merge.
80 stlgph : From a "red tape" stand point, I expect to be UAL to be just as, if not more active than DAL. However, neither UAL or DAL can afford to sit around an
81 aajfksjubklyn : Lets get real here, remove ourselves from this AA Blog A Thon...I have been flying AA pretty much for every single flight I have ever been on for 20
82 chepos : I grew up in the island of Puerto Rico and flew American extensively as AA had a stronghold on the island up until a couple of years ago. I have to s
83 JFKPurser : As I predicted last night, here is your due diligence about to begin -- exactly as I said. It is being announced all over the press. AA has agreed to
84 JFKPurser : What they said publicly a while back is that they supported AMR's right to formulate a standalone plan and emerge from bankruptcy as a standalone car
85 ckfred : Can you imagine how mad the US/HP pilots will be, if all issues of seniority wind up favoring AA pilots? They will feel like furloughed TW flight att
86 HPRamper : The fencing will pretty much alleviate that problem before it starts, and in any case, the AA crews will be retiring years before the ex-HP crews. Th
87 JFKPurser : You six are going to be a very lonely bunch in a few months once this whole deal is done. Maybe Horton will take you all along with him on a vacation
88 Post contains links CapEd388 : Just saw this on USA Todays website Tom Horton Letter to AA Employees - July 10 http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2012/07/amr-letter/800693/1
89 PHX787 : Looks like he's trying to quell the rumors for now.
90 phxa340 : Make it Bali so I can see all the heavies taking off over the beach and we have a deal. "Boeing chairman and CEO Jim McNerney threw his support behin
91 commavia : Good to see the process moving along. AA continues to strengthen its balance sheet, improve its financial performance, and improve its strategic posit
92 flyfree727 : Well why woudn't they? And according the reports in WSJ and others (taken for what it usually is, trash) AMR execs are pushing for what THEY want, th
93 commavia : Like I said. I don't begrudge the unions one bit for trying to get the best possible deals for their members. That's their job. Nobody is disputing t
94 JFKPurser : Personally, I think he's a pilot. Read his profile and see my above post...[Edited 2012-07-10 19:14:54]
95 Post contains links Fleet Service : Facts say differently.Although message board hyperbole is always fun. http://www.twulocal564.org/files/Doc...tial_Arbitration_Award_02Apr29.htm
96 Beardown91737 : Depends on which US. If your flight number is 1-700, it is the PMHP US which is a good experience. I have no experience with the Allegheny or Piedmon
97 usaf336tfs : And that means what exactly? Yes full disclosure (Usually of financial data) to its shareholders, like myself. It doesn't mean they're forced to make
98 Post contains images usaf336tfs : Flight Attendant, according to his profile. Me? I personally prefer the female kind though...
99 phxa340 : I think you and I are arguing the same point - that Boeing is not on board with the merger as US is/will be a sole Airbus customer. Full Disclosure F
100 jumpjets : In the early days of AA being in chapter 11 there were murmurings that Oneworld partners such as IAG might pitch in with some capital for AA - with th
101 JFKPurser : Guess what? There is no spinning. The unions and the UCC are now fully in control of this process. The unions -- APFA and TWU -- just forced Horton's
102 phxa340 : Haha. Fully in control ... hardly ! If they were fully in control , AA would have never had to resort to BK to get their contracts thrown out. In BK
103 LAXdude1023 : I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Absurd. But hey, whatever makes you sleep at night.
104 HPRamper : I think that is more the reality of the situation - that Boeing sees this not as losing a customer, but gaining a customer (or at least, doing away w
105 Post contains images phxa340 : Agreed but I still don't see how some are trying to argue the point that Boeing is full throttle on board for this merger
106 flyfree727 : What is absurd is the JFKPurser has basically given us the news "the day before" it happens, word for word, yet no one on here sees any credibility.
107 Post contains images Flighty : Hahahaha. sick sense of humor.
108 mikey72 : Well seeing as the US Airways merger was first mooted in 2009 I wish they'd just get on with it.
109 aajfksjubklyn : I never said or attempted to make AA look like Emirates or SIA. What I was saying is, they are getting better and have made substantial improvements
110 Post contains links LAXdude1023 : If that were true, I would listen. It isnt. Weve heard over and over that Boeing is on board with the US takeover which is false. Its not even as if
111 Post contains images phxa340 : I invite you to keep drinking his union Kool-Aid. He hasn't said anything really that we all knew was going to happen anyway - he just puts a union s
112 chepos : AA pulled the plug on the SJU focus city because it no longer served them a purpose. AA had been pulling back service way before it finally decreased
113 JFKPurser : Yep. I'll just keep given' them the news...
114 AAIL86 : Right on. There is more to be gained for Boeing by dragging this process out. The Boeing board realizes that a merger is quite possible, however in m
115 incitatus : Hardly the news when so many absurdities are interlaced. Consider: Chapter 11 Basics: The judge is in control. Let me re-type: In court-supervised re
116 Post contains links phxa340 : Also if Horton really was just putting on a show like the creditors ... why this quote from Parker ? "Parker told USA TODAY that he's been frustrated
117 milemaster : That is an excellent point. I do think the board is putting pressure on Horton to consider merger opportunities, but it's not because Parker has gone
118 JFKPurser : This statement was made many months ago. For Boeing to have expressed anything else would seem to be very irregular. Why would Mr. McNerney want to p
119 AAIL86 : Interesting. You completely ignored my point our our lack of objectivity. Was it a little too close to home? Mark my words - if US Airways does succe
120 SATexan : While I don't doubt that merging with US will make AA more competative, I am curious to know how exactly does DP's plan result in an immediate return
121 Post contains links PHX787 : Interesting article from ABC15 here in the valley: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...-ceo-says-merger-delays-fine-by-us
122 lucky777 : And how might you be privy to such inside information? Again, you make a blanket statement about you having some sort of shadowy presence inside the
123 chepos : ****Sigh**** We keep on beating the dead horse, this thread should be closed. People stop wasting your precious time arguing over something most of yo
124 mikey72 : Oh spoil sport....this will re-ignite the flame. Stands to reason that once AA has merged with US.....AA will regain its 'rightful' position as the U
125 commavia : Doubtful, at least for a while. Parker is today doing the same song and dance that others have done in the last few years (no layoffs, no hub closure
126 mikey72 : Yeah I know (was just stirring the pot)...maybe in time though. Thanks for the reply...will be interesting.
127 JFKPurser : I think this is for the most part true. TWU layoffs will occur even under the US merge proposal. But the combined airline he would need the numbers o
128 JFKPurser : Wow. This is the kind of cynicism one usually hears only from a union member. And you may end up being right. But I'm willing to bet my career that h
129 commavia : Obviously the TWU work groups - especially M&E - are screwed under either scenario. AA wants to outsource 40% of base maintenance, USAirways will
130 USAF336TFS : Do you really want to do that? My understanding is that the flight crew unions from both US and America West still have not ironed out issues with Mr
131 JFKPurser : Well put and accurate. AA employees -- certainly the unionized ones -- have never trusted any management team. So it is only natural that they would
132 JFKPurser : Yes. I certainly do. No ifs ands or buts. Fingers crossed...[Edited 2012-07-12 11:15:40]
133 JFKPurser : The three banks on the UCC will expect to be paid much of their shares in cash. So DP will be writing them checks immediately, as would Horton under
134 phxa340 : US only has 1.9 billion cash on hand , so most likely much of this would be funded by stocks or a bond sale. AA actually has more cash on hand than U
135 JFKPurser : From what I am told, some of the entities the banks represent want to see their shares paid out in cash. DP has already spoken publicly of addressing
136 phxa340 : That would make a lot more sense since AA's cash is spoken for a least a lot of it and US just doesn't have much of it. AA was reported to enter BK w
137 JFKPurser : AMR last reported $5.6 billion. They simply are not required to pay many of their bills while in BK. That's how it's working' out for them, because t
138 phxa340 : Your right, last reported was 4.9 billion of which most is in short term investments , however in the next few weeks the judge will start authorizing
139 HPRamper : As happened when HP bought US. HP didn't exactly have piles of cash kicking around. Outside financing accounted for the vast majority of the deal.
140 lucky777 : More shadowy figures running around in your head dropping you information no one else is priviliged to see yet again, huh? Your like the ultimate cor
141 rwy04lga : Not if it's one-third true!
142 JFKPurser : I was replying to a point in which someone else suggested that DP would be paying these claims with US' $1.9 billion cash, and stating that any cash
143 Post contains links etops1 : It just keeps getting better and better ... Meet a new AA creditor . http://www.wfaa.com/news/business/US...f-American-Airlines-162268805.html
144 JFKPurser : DP claiming today that US is now a creditor of AMR.[Edited 2012-07-12 16:22:08]
145 milemaster : Wow. I guess it's safe to say that there aren't any advanced merger talks between AA & US. Why buy a seat at the creditors table if the merger wa
146 etops1 : It was never said that there were advanced merger talks between AA and US . US has been trying to get AA management to talk to them but no avail . US
147 LDVAviation : So what? Horton was going to have to do this anyway. You didn't force his hand. LOL. If you didn't get any equity in the new AA because you war so fo
148 phxa340 : Some things to note. US bought $8M worth of unsecured debt , that hardly gets them any influence whatsoever. It goes to show though as milemaster poi
149 JFKPurser : He wasn't ready to do it yet. He had been dragging his feet for two months. LOL! The only reason he did it now -- a 180 degree change from his tune o
150 etops1 : Say what you want . This is a bold and good move on Parker's part . They do not call it a hostile bid for nothing . And things just got Hostile . Cal
151 PHX787 : There's a difference between being adventurous and a go-getter and being really ignorant or making bad mistakes.
152 LDVAviation : New direction? That direction is another bankruptcy or round of union concessions in a year or two. LOL. APFA has not really thought this out. The ne
153 phxa340 : Can't argue with your there, this a man on a mission.
154 LDVAviation : Believe what you want. You got nothing, except vague promises from Doug Parker that he is going to send many of you into happy retirement with thousa
155 etops1 : And tell me why Parker making this move is him being ignorant or making a bad mistake ??
156 incitatus : And this action shows how far he is from even getting started.
157 JFKPurser : What Swelbar writes is garbage. Everyone knows he is paid by AMR. Nobody with any credibility or influence pays any attention to a word he says. It i
158 lucky777 : This hostile takeover attempt is looking like another Keep Delta My Delta all over again for Dougie... AMR, like every other Legacy carrier, loathes U
159 PHX787 : I may be mixing up my history, but was DP with US Airways when they tried to take over DL? Wasn't he with HP when he took over US? I maybe getting al
160 JFKPurser : If Horton were doing the same thing as Parker is now, you would be probably be calling it a brilliant PR campaign. I would say that appearing before
161 chepos : Yes, DP was at US when he tried a hostile takeover attemot and yes DP was with HP before the merger with US. I must say I recall the "Keep DL my DL c
162 lucky777 : Not sure it's "devotion" to AA or other legacy carriers employees seeing the bottom-feeding benefits Parker has been known to pay. Either way the res
163 Post contains images PHX787 : Thanks for clearing that up. I think painting a bag cart may result in termination But actually, some of my buddies who are frequent fliers with US A
164 Beardown91737 : Months ago, when the merger first started, there were numerous suggestions of a "let's keep AA my AA" happening, as if AA employees had the same enth
165 LAXdude1023 : Phoenix should not be for the merger and Im not talking about a dismantle of the hub because I dont think PHX will be dismantled. Phoenix should be a
166 PHX787 : That's one of the main things my buddy said. He said he'd quit his job if he had to transfer to Texas (he has too much family here) There's talk that
167 cjpark : I have read your posts bleating your support for a merger with US Airways with quiet amusement. Yes it is obvious that Swelbar supports American Airl
168 flyfree727 : Oh yes that ol banter again.. The employees at AA are doing a wonderful job for a customers as of late as has been reported on this thread and many o
169 commavia : That is highly doubtful. This merger was likely always inevitable anyway - I think it will happen in the future, and indeed I think it should. The on
170 HPRamper : Untrue. Their networks were a better fit for one another, and they wanted a merger on their own terms. Parker wants a takeover. Absolutely nothing wr
171 flyguy89 : Unless AA cuts itself in half, they'll still be significantly larger than US. AA has 605 active aircraft in their fleet, US has 340, AA is almost twi
172 fco110 : And US bought 1M worth of aa stock I read today?
173 Post contains links PHX787 : apparently: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...amr-bankruptcy-by-buying-debt.html
174 CV880 : The AMR stock is worthless. New stock will be issued when it emerges from BK. The article above does not refer to stock.
175 etops1 : US bought $1million of AA debt in order to become a creditor to AMR and have a seat at their bankruptcy proceedings . They did not buy stock .
176 PHX787 : Looks like they're gonna force their way into merging, now.
177 DarkSnowyNight : Good call. Regardless of what one may think of this merger, the Doug Parker as a drunken buffoon meme is getting tired, to say nothing of how irrelev
178 EA CO AS : Untrue? Then tell us why that statement is untrue. Be specific. What, specifically, does US bring to the table that UA, DL, or AA cannot gain organic
179 XT6Wagon : A mere $1M won't "buy" them a seat. Seats are already set. What it does is let them petition the court as a creditor instead of just some random comp
180 GSPSPOT : I have to say, DL's onboard service and hard product were both vastly improved during and immediately after their BK. Shedding the load, so to speak,
181 ca2ohHP : $13 Billion in annual revenue for starters....
182 incitatus : It is like someone wants to be in the cast of a Broadway play but they really didn't make it as an actor. So they go and buy a ticket so that at leas
183 phxa340 : Which produced a whopping 426M gross. US has leveraged every asset it owns this its net income for all of 2011 was 71M. Its financials aren't pretty
184 ca2ohHP : What assets has US specifically leveraged? Look at pre-merger UA, who was leveraging everything down to bag tugs, US doesn't even come close to that.
185 HPRamper : It was a blanket statement with nothing to qualify it. "US Airways brings nothing to the table with regards to a merger." It's patently false. US has
186 ckfred : How is AA's reorg. plan that much different from DL's plan. If you think about it, DL had its primary hub at ATL, with a lot of TATL traffic, as well
187 phxa340 : You need to read up on US' financials then ... they are pretty scary. They have Debt to Equity Ratio of 3,044% ! WN is about 54% for a reference and
188 Post contains links ca2ohHP : Well I've peeked through their income and balance sheets LCC Annual Balance Sheet, but thanks for the advice...when this all fizzles, you can have br
189 EricR : I can list a lot of items. Since this thread is specifically about an AA/US merger, I will address those items that US can provide AA that AA cannot
190 Post contains links vin2basketball : How did you get that figure? US is actually at 22.18, whereas Southwest is at 0.466 UAL is at 8.15, Delta is at 11.86 Source: http://ycharts.com/comp
191 flyguy89 : That's still remarkably high in comparison to their competitors, what it all means in the grand scheme of things I can't say with any authority. But
192 vin2basketball : Two things to look at; AMR is cash rich right now, and their debt load will be shrunk dramatically by bankruptcy. Also US' debt pales in comparison t
193 ckfred : I just saw a crawler on CNBC, citing the Wall Street Journal, that Horton and Parker are meeting. That should be interesting. The WSJ ran an article l
194 aztrainer : Que Elvis to start singing "Its now or never"..... Parker has even told people in Phoenix that the HQ will moev from Tempe to Dallas.
195 yellowtail : have lots of friends in Tempe working there and ALL are focussed on merger.
196 LAXdude1023 : Thats kind of what I have been saying from day one. If youre from Arizona or you work for US in Arizona, you should be against this merger.
197 EricR : That is heavily dependent upon your position at the airline and how good of a worker you are. Corporate level employees would be impacted far more if
198 ckfred : What is the official posiitons of the unions at US? Most importantly are the pilots. Would the US pilots have to resolve their seniority issue, before
199 commavia : Everybody - at least the ones that are in favor of the merger (namely Parker and the AA unions) - claim they will pursue strict DOH, and that all of
200 LDVAviation : At today's bankruptcy court hearings: A lawyer for US Airways tried to address the court [...], but Judge Lane said he did not want to be distracted
201 Post contains links USAirALB : HAHA Has Parker been actively campaigning for this merger in PHL/PHX? Apparently he'll be in Charlotte today and had a breakfast meeting with Horton
202 Post contains images PHX787 : Why would he here in PHX, if he's removing a number of jobs from here to DFW? Makes no sense "Hey lets do this merger so I can cut your job!"
203 flyguy89 : Indeed, it's all about whispering sweet nothings into peoples ears and telling them what they want to hear to garner support. 800 flights a day? Yeah
204 Post contains links CapEd388 : Heres the USA Today article on the meeting between Parker and Horton http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...ys-discuss-merger-options/807086/1 Theres
205 Beardown91737 : I agree but would go further to say that jobs may stay in Tempe as well. The software company I work for only has 10% of jobs at HQ. Development and
206 EA CO AS : Simulators are portable. They're not fixed monuments that can never, ever be moved.
207 ckfred : In a AA/US merger, I see CLT remaining an important hub. AA is very weak in the Southeast, and the hubs that funnel traffic into the area, ORD, DFW, a
208 Coronado : Yep, Delta had the NWA A330 and 747 simulators earlier this year all packed up and moved to ATL. And NWA's NATCO subsidiary was a rather autonomous t
209 PHX787 : Like I keep saying, I highly doubt PHX would be downsized. Nobody wants to connect in LAX if they're doing something domestic. I think that PHX and D
210 EaglePower83 : I gotta say, a US hookup would really help the AA netowrk out here in New England. BDL has a lot of decent US connections with PHL. It would greatly h
211 phxa340 : I have to disagree on this one. LAX and DFW can take care of a lot of connections for West Coast and Southern passengers. A customer from Seattle can
212 lucky777 : Says the guy with the PHX787 username LMFAO!!! Indeed, PHX will quickly become a CVG/MEM...PHX has neither the scale or customer base DFW or LAX can
213 bobnwa : I believe that anyone in the know at either DL or NW ever said that CVG and MEM would get NRT service. I am sure it was speculated on this forum, but
214 flyguy89 : Well anybody with a realistic perspective of the industry of course knew that it was never going to happen, but NW/DL officials were saying all kinds
215 PHX787 : For the millionth time: 6th largest city, Huge draw from all around the southwest, 5million+ metro area, not to mention the O&D here...there is Q
216 Flighty : PHX is the capital of the Southwest region (no pun intended). The growth of the region itself will determine how PHX does. Since the housing crisis be
217 PHX787 : Vegas and PHX are growing in a similar fashion. It's interesting how those two aren't really "competing" for each other, as both cities, despite size
218 staralliance85 : AA/US will be one customer service fiasco. We are now learning that the UA/ CO merger is going through a lot of obstacles right now. United became a h
219 Post contains links Beardown91737 : These threads keep turning into how AA would make US disappear like they did TWA, Reno, and AirCal. The real question is what will LCC do when they ow
220 flyguy89 : That's a pretty negligible amount of backtracking if one considers the potential savings of consolidating at 2 hubs instead of operating 3, but I can
221 Post contains images PHX787 : Thank you for proving my points! PHX is the central-west location for US and: UA works DEN perfectly. UA has SFO, LAX, and ORD all surrounding DEN al
222 commavia : Whether all of that is true or not, I still highly doubt that Phoenix could support a hub of its current size in a post-merger environment. Much of P
223 incitatus : No airline serves all markets in the country, so this logic is really lacking.
224 EricR : While I hope the best for the PHX hub if a merger occurs, I think PHX would suffer a slow draw down over time and eventually cease to exist as a hub u
225 commavia : While I generally agree with the points you're making, I think the real key will be where the combined airline's costs would end up. If the combined
226 N126DL : In this morning's USA Today, there was an article about how Parker says US may not be interested in AA if they emerge from bankruptcy... thoughts?
227 lucky777 : Of course....for the simple fact that if AA emerges a stand-alone entity then they're free to merge/buyout whomever they choose, including LCC. This
228 EricR : I think it is clear that Parker is only interested in a merger that results in him controlling the combined entity. As a side note, does anyone know
229 Flighty : He was internal at both airlines. So, he can say that. This is correct. I think AA is trying to paper over the merger-related opportunities that only
230 PHX787 : Well since AA's powerless right now, DP wants to sweep them up. Once they're independent again, why would DP wanna take that kind of risk? It makes p
231 DeltaMD90 : It's not a company's job to employ as many people as it can, it's a company's job to make money for the stock holders. That's the reality of it. As l
232 EA CO AS : Because it's going to save more jobs on the whole nationwide than it's going to cost in AZ. That's why.
233 Post contains images phxa340 : Make no mistake about it , if/when this merger happens it will be to the detriment of US employees. US hubs face way more right sizing than AA hubs w
234 DarkSnowyNight : Those connections are all pretty poor work-a-rounds that AA has no choice but to make use of, given that they have no western hub. There's no doubt t
235 DeltaMD90 : Do what further harm? Market value and monopolies aren't guess work, there's a formula to calculate market share and to see if a carrier has too much
236 LAXdude1023 : Thats one extreme. And thats the other. The truth is probably something in between. PHX would probably not be the size it currently is, but it would
237 Post contains images PHX787 : Isn't that right around where it's at now? You know I actually had to connect in LAX once to get to Cincinnati. I hated it. Too crowded, bad service,
238 LAXdude1023 : Right now its about 300 daily departures.
239 PHX787 : I see. In your formula, 100 less that can probably be picked up by WN/AS/B6/VX?/F9 whoever is really nothing to cry about, I'll have to admit.
240 LAXdude1023 : Well, regardless the odds that PHX will be its current size in a post AA/US merger are not very high.
241 infinit : Going a little off tangent here but this is something that came to mind.. I know the US like most countries other than the EU doesn't allow for foreig
242 PHX787 : I could see branson buying a minority stock in AA if they merge with VX
243 Post contains links LAXintl : US just hired the former media manager of Southwest and Delta to provide 'boots on the ground" PR efforts. From what I hear, the guy a Dallas native i
244 bobnwa : I have known DP for many years. Never heard him go into a childiish rant, and i would bet you havn't eitther
245 AAplat4life : Media reports indicate that AMR has sent out nondisclosure agreements ("NDA") to US Airways and others. Does anyone know whether there are really any
246 jumpjets : I know nothing about USA corporate law but maybe people like IAG who have expressed an interest into buying into AA would have to sign an NDA even th
247 wn676 : The other four are AS, B6, F9, and YX.
248 LAXintl : On the US Airways earnings call last week, they stated they were waiting for the NDA from AA any day. Assuming it had no arduous restrictions they wou
249 ckfred : I wouldn't be surprised if TPG (formerly Texas Pacific Group) has looked at the books. Horton had talked to them shortly after the Chapter 11 filing.
250 DeltaMD90 : I'm still wondering how/if this would actually make AA better... it seems like (at least with these 2 carriers) they want to merge just to merge.
251 Post contains links EricR : Interesting piece from Reuters today discussing how AA would pay a premium if they purchased US after exiting BK as opposed to US buying AA while AA i
252 commavia : It's a negotiating position, just as are the statements from Horton. ... just as Parker is trying to paper over the benefits to AA of doing a merger
253 phxa340 : If you read the article carefully it mentions that the cost savings US is proposing would come at the expense of the creditors. There is two sides to
254 GSPSPOT : This is the scenario I'd like to see and seems to make the most sense to me. Everyone in the industry is saying that further consolidation is needed
255 HPRamper : Those other airlines were only included as a smokescreen anyway, they were not serious proposals. In any case, an AA-F9 deal would end in utter, spee
256 Post contains links TWA85 : http://seekingalpha.com/article/7644...k-north-to-alaska-air?source=yahoo The above listed article demonstrates that US may have more problems coming
257 AAplat4life : From the AMR perspective in the article sugesting a 75/25 split of a merged entity, with 75% going to AMR creditors (or post-bankruptcy shareholders)
258 commavia : I'm not sure I agree with all of your assumptions. To start with, comparing the value of AMR today to United and Delta several years post-bankruptcy
259 AAplat4life : The valuation multiples that apply to the airline industry are those that are in effect today, and not years back when United or Delta came out of ban
260 commavia : Those valuation multiples are based on the market condition today, but they're also based on the performance of those airlines today. It's impossible
261 Post contains links LAXintl : The US Business Travel Coalition along with a DC based consumer competition advocacy group is out with a white-paper looking at a AA-US deal. Basicall
262 chepos : So did they do this for DL/NWA, UAL/CO, WN/FL, Afger all in this possible scenario you are combining an airline which currently is in BK and another
263 Post contains links Beardown91737 : American Airlines Merger Possibilities: The Bad and the Worse http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-trav...es-merger-071112?mbid=ob_ppc_TX_OH
264 SA7700 : This thread will be closed as it has run its course. Any posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping purposes only. Rgds SA7700
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