Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 117  
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 19490 times:

Welcome to the 117th New Zealand Aviation Thread. In New Zealand Aviation Thread #116 (by ZKOJH Jun 19 2012 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:

- NZ AKL-DPS flights
- Potential for CHC and WLG to get new long haul flights
- Potential new destinations in the Americas for NZ
- NZ 77W on AKL-RAR and NZ's RAR operations
- Fog in AKL

Other related threads:
Air New Zealand To Denver? (by klwright69 Jul 3 2012 in Civil Aviation)

218 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19105 times:

well best get Number 17 off to a start then;

ANZ are in hot water ''

''Kiwis pay top dollar on Air NZ''

Air New Zealand has been left scrambling to explain why Kiwis are charged hundreds - even thousands - of dollars more than British passengers for the same flights.

A customer based in Britain who books online a return economy-class flight from London to Auckland will pay much less than a New Zealand-based traveller who books the same journey in reverse on Air New Zealand's website at the same time.

The price disparity can vary wildly, but a standard round-trip between Auckland and Heathrow via Los Angeles will set a New Zealand-based passenger back $500 more for an economy seat, $1500 more for a SkyCouch upgrade, $2100 more for a premium economy seat and $3000 in business class.

follow the story below.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10818060

and

**SCHEDULE CHANGES TO LONDON VIA HONG KONG**


Air New Zealand wishes to advise that the operating flight number for our one-stop service between Auckland and London via Hong Kong will change from NZ39 to NZ35 for all B777-200 flights between Monday 29 October 2012 and Saturday 30 March 2013. Flight arrival and departure times are as follows.

• Depart AKL 23:59 arrive HKG 06:05 the following day
• Depart HKG 09:05 arrive LHR 14:45

[Edited 2012-07-09 01:29:17]


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19091 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
''Kiwis pay top dollar on Air NZ''

Air New Zealand has been left scrambling to explain why Kiwis are charged hundreds - even thousands - of dollars more than British passengers for the same flights.



I guess it was a slow news day again at the Herald ( Just like every other day   ) . In the Singaporean media you will frequently read something similar "Singaporeans pay top dollar on SQ" while in Aussie it will be "Aussies pay top dollar for QF" and in Britain it would read "British pay top pounds on BA". It's the way the market works. The home carrier in any market is almost always the most expensive. In other markets they need to price more keenly because of the lack of prescence/recognition.

Annoying? Yes.

Unusual or unexpected? Not really, except apparently to the 'journalists' at the Herald.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 19062 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
change from NZ39 to NZ35

I wonder what is the reason for the change. NZ38/39 is a lot easier to remember than NZ35/38.


User currently offlinezkeoj From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 19025 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
I guess it was a slow news day again at the Herald ( Just like every other day ) . In the Singaporean media you will frequently read something similar "Singaporeans pay top dollar on SQ" while in Aussie it will be "Aussies pay top dollar for QF" and in Britain it would read "British pay top pounds on BA". It's the way the market works. The home carrier in any market is almost always the most expensive. In other markets they need to price more keenly because of the lack of prescence/recognition.

100% agreed! Germans pay more on LH, Dutch on KL, etc... it's just the home advantage of an airline, and nothing new at all....


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18893 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Unusual or unexpected? Not really, except apparently to the 'journalists' at the Herald.

I sent an email to the journalist concerned telling her that she had not served her readers very well by not doing a fare comparison with the other one stop carriers out of NZL to LHR . ( CX and SQ)


User currently offlinetimb777 From New Zealand, joined Dec 2009, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 18700 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 1):
Air New Zealand has been left scrambling to explain why Kiwis are charged hundreds - even thousands - of dollars more than British passengers for the same flights

While there may be similar stories in other countries showing the home carrier charging more for routes originaing in its home country, i still think that it was a good article as outside of this forum many members of the public are unaware that such 'market forces' are so markedly at play.

With the collapse of Greece, the UK APD and the Euro crisis in general, the J class pricing for Europe originating itineraries is as inconsistent as ever. E.g. An executive flying business class from Germany would pay 4,777 Euro on Lufthansa while this is a mere 2,440 Euro if the itinerary for the same lufthansa flights originates in Athens. On BA, return Amsterdam to JFK is 2,331 pounds while direct from Heathrow it is a staggering 4,720 pounds.

Still, for an airline partially owned by the govt who is elected to act in the publics best interests, some may view this an an outrage, an unfair 'profit' or 'tax' (as the govt is ashareholder) derived from people choosing NZ based on naional pride and loyalty as the article reports. Of course, some posters clearly take the political position that the best interests of the voters of NZ is best served by NZ making the max possibe profit available for distribution. Of course such political distinctions are inevitable.

Of note, one must remember that in decades gone by, IATA regulated airfares in such way that this would not happen. Airlines had to adjust airfares with currency movements, if not they would face stiff penalties. I, like many, favour deregulation, but it is merely interesting to note that it was considered in all's best interest not to allow such pricing regimes in the days of IATA regulation.

[Edited 2012-07-09 16:40:18]

User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2754 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18320 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Annoying? Yes.

Unusual or unexpected? Not really, except apparently to the 'journalists' at the Herald.

This is old news indeed..I remember 25 years ago or so the same thing was going on. It cost my Family in England, far less than it did for me to fly Qantas between Sydney and London and vis a versa. The reason we were given back then was also something to do with High/low season's in the respective countries.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 18302 times:

I just flew NZ for the first time last week going PER-AKL-HNL in J, I just wanted to pop in and say you Kiwis know how to run an airline unlike a certain idiot on this side of the Tasman! Both flights were EXCEPTIONAL and some of the best service I have ever received, even better than SQ. As old as she was, the 763 seemed absolutely immaculate inside and the 772 was even better! Cannot wait to fly NZ again.

User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18170 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 8):

Good to know your experience was positive. How did you take the change from the 763 J seat to the herringbone?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17994 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 9):
How did you take the change from the 763 J seat to the herringbone?

Honestly, for a 6 hour flight, the 763 J was fine, even for a redeye service. The whole atmosphere of the cabin was very sophisticated, the black leather and dark carpets look stunning with the cabin's square lines. The herringbone was fantastic, much better than CX's old J because it's less claustrophobic.

The 763 actually had better IFE than the 772, the touch Panasonic screens are fantastic.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17780 times:

Everyone set for the big show tommrow the launch of ANZ 'OneUp' !!

how long will it take for them to backtrack on this idea. ??  

The way I see it, if you want to fly Business class then pay the price, no point of trying to bid for it and only know a week before hand if you have it!

Air New Zealand's new 'bid for upgrades' auction system takes effect tomorrow, July 12, as the airline abandons the long-standing ability to purchase upgrades at a fixed price using Airpoints dollars -- Air NZ's version of frequent flyer points.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/airnz-makes-...id-for-upgrades-via-online-auction

 Wow!   



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17713 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 11):
how long will it take for them to backtrack on this idea. ??

Longer than you might think. I always predicted that the life span of the marketing own-goal "Ricco" would be measured in nano seconds; instead, it lasted about a year. "One up" I imagine was contrived by the same demographic (albeit in different departments) as Ricco, and will be similarly loved by the travelling public. Another iteration of the "downgrade-hype-release-backtrck" cycle from NZ that's become monotonously predictable over the last few years.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 17656 times:

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 10):
The 763 actually had better IFE than the 772, the touch Panasonic screens are fantastic.

Yep, that's one reason why people have been wanting the 772 to be upgraded with the 77W product for a while..

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 11):
how long will it take for them to backtrack on this idea. ??

Too long. But they've already lost many high valued customers before the scheme had even been implemented - very hard for them to win back those passengers, I'd imagine.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17285 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 13):
Yep, that's one reason why people have been wanting the 772 to be upgraded with the 77W product for a while..

The seats and IFE on the 772 do look a bit aged by now. Does the IFE on 772 crash more often than the Panasonic version, or is it just me?


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 17234 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 13):
Yep, that's one reason why people have been wanting the 772 to be upgraded with the 77W product for a while..

Except, of course, for the fact the 77W has ten abreast in Y, whereas the 772 has nine.

I recently traveled on a full 772 in Y - it was an utter sardine can. What is must be like to travel in similar circumstances AKL-LHR in Y on the 77W, I cannot imagine.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17208 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Air NZ drops down world's best airline list - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...rops-down-worlds-best-airline-list

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 10):
the 763 J was fine, even for a redeye service. The whole atmosphere of the cabin was very sophisticated, the black leather and dark carpets look stunning with the cabin's square lines. The herringbone was fantastic, much better than CX's old J because it's less claustrophobic.

The 763 actually had better IFE than the 772, the touch Panasonic screens are fantastic.

Flying NZ246 (DPS-AKL) last week I was upgraded into J (flight was just over half full) and I found 2A to be very comfy for a day time flight. Thought the new ordering system and touch screen were excellent.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17206 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 15):
I recently traveled on a full 772 in Y - it was an utter sardine can.

I was in a packed CX 77W.. surely felt a lot more spacious than a sardine can.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 17120 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
Air NZ drops down world's best airline list

I know people will question how objective Skytrax is, but this (drop from 7th to 17th - the worst of any airline on the list) equates with my experience. NZ used to be significantly better than AC (19th), but I now find them about the same. AC is a *** airline, so I wonder if NZ is on the verge of being downgraded. Sad, really, especially for the front-line staff who still go the extra mile as best they can, but are handicapped by a downgraded product. I guess CEOs who spend most of their time fluffing on social media don't improve pax' appreciation of the actual product.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17036 times:

Omg 7th to 17 thats pritty very bad even for nz standards, what reasons are behind such a big drop? Oh they should listern to the customers however there probley jumping ship in big numbers what a day!


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17035 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 16):
Air NZ drops down world's best airline list

I know, this was a huge kick in the guts to NZ. Even though people argue skytrax is not the be all and end all of ranking systems it is still a gauge none the less. Quite a few comments on the site about the decline in quality, 3-4-3 on a 777, seats to suit not being what it's cracked up to be etc etc.

I really hope things will turn around before it's too late


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17029 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Can't wait to see this!

Air New Zealand's promoting Hobbit on flights and spending millions on movie promotions including...........painting two B777s (B77W and B772) into Hobbit planes

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...ealand-promoting-Hobbit-on-flights


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17016 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
painting two B777s (B77W and B772) into Hobbit planes

Fantastic news. Once these aircraft are repainted (or have a sticker applied), the following Air New Zealand aircraft will be wearing special liveries:

'Crazy About Rugby':
ZK-OAB, ZK-OJR,

'All Black' (identical to the A320s but with a larger Koru and no 'Crazy About Rugby' titles):
ZK-OKQ, ZK-EAG

'Star Alliance':
ZK-OJH (currently it has a 15 years sticker also http://bit.ly/ShN7wo)

'The Hobbit':
ZK-OK*, ZK-OK*

Unless I am missing any, that is seven aircraft in total. Some kind of record for Air New Zealand, maybe?



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17010 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting zkojq (Reply 22):

Unless I am missing any, that is seven aircraft in total. Some kind of record for Air New Zealand, maybe?

Two more 1900Ds are still to be painted black, so a total of 9 aircraft once finished.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 17020 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 22):

Still waiting for a retrojet of some sort too!  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17078 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 21):
Air New Zealand's promoting Hobbit on flights and spending millions on movie promotions including...........painting two B777s (B77W and B772) into Hobbit planes

  
After the Skytrax results they should cut out the flashy stuff and start dealing with the substance. The travelling experience has nothing to do with the paint job on the aircraft.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16964 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 25):
After the Skytrax results they should cut out the flashy stuff and start dealing with the substance. The travelling experience has nothing to do with the paint job on the aircraft.

It comes down to consistency of product for me, Passengers need to know what they will be offered as product onboard will not change from flight to flight, or destination to destination. Informed, Content passengers tend to give better result and tend to pay more too if it is a service worth paying for.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17110 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Two more 1900Ds are still to be painted black, so a total of 9 aircraft once finished

Would be nice to see it in some of the other fleet


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 17087 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 27):

Fully agree! A Q300 and ATR would look nice IMHO, but the high wings would reduce the look


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16961 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 27):
Two more 1900Ds are still to be painted black, so a total of 9 aircraft once finished.

Good to hear.   Do we know what timeframe this will happen in?

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 24):
Still waiting for a retrojet of some sort too!  

Well that makes two of us. I would love to see a TEAL or NAC livery on one of the 737s before they finally leave the fleet. While we are on the subject, does anyone know in what state of being parted out ZK-NGF is in? Is there anything left to see?

Quoting 777ER (Reply 28):
Fully agree! A Q300 and ATR would look nice IMHO, but the high wings would reduce the look

Well, Mount Cook Airlines is scheduled to take delivery of a few ATR72-600s at the end of the year. Maybe one of them could wear an 'All Black' livery also.



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16976 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting zkojq (Reply 29):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 24):Still waiting for a retrojet of some sort too!


Quoting 777ER (Reply 28):Mount Cook Airlines is scheduled to take delivery of a few ATR72-600s at the end of the year. Maybe one of them could wear an 'All Black' livery also.

Or, speaking of retro, a Mt Cook Lily livery.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16797 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Airport's bid draws flak - http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times...ws/7277811/Airports-bid-draws-flak

User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16784 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 31):

Is CHC capable of taking an A380 if Auckland was closed?

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 30):

Crazy Idea: What about a crazy about rugby Mt Cook lily cross?  
Quoting 777ER (Reply 28):
Fully agree! A Q300 and ATR would look nice IMHO, but the high wings would reduce the look

How old are the oldest ATR 72-500 because Airnz could take up their extra -600 options to replace some of them


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16785 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 32):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 31):
Is CHC capable of taking an A380 if Auckland was closed?

Yes CHC is able to handle A380s

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 32):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 28):Fully agree! A Q300 and ATR would look nice IMHO, but the high wings would reduce the look
How old are the oldest ATR 72-500 because Airnz could take up their extra -600 options to replace some of them

Some are about 5 years old


User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16770 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 33):
Some are about 5 years old

Look at this
http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet
Where some of the newer ATRs delivered before the oldest Q300's?
Some of the ATRs must really be getting on then, when were the first of them delivered and how much of a fuel saving does the -600 get over the -500?
How much life is in TP's in general?


User currently offlineNZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16821 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

ZK-MCA is the oldest ATR in the fleet and is almost 13 years old. Link here: http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-atr-597.htm

NZ1


User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16762 times:

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 35):
ZK-MCA is the oldest ATR in the fleet and is almost 13 years old. Link here:

By the time the options become available that aircraft will be at least 16 years old, would this be old enough for NZ to consider retiring these aircraft?


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16751 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 34):

Newest is 8 years old according to Airfleets


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16782 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 36):
By the time the options become available that aircraft will be at least 16 years old, would this be old enough for NZ to consider retiring these aircraft?

Interesting question

http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/fleet

lists their average age as 11.5 years at the moment. They mention their daily usage is about 7.4 hours per aircraft, but without knowing what their average sector flight time is that doesn't really give a lot of clues about how many cycles they do per day. What is the normal life expectancy of a commuter turboprop ? Since they have much more frequent cycles than longhaul aircraft I guess they 'age' faster even though their actual utilisation rates are much lower in terms of hours.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16768 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 38):
but without knowing what their average sector flight time is that doesn't really give a lot of clues about how many cycles they do per day

AKL-NPE is around an hour, AKL-PMR is about the same, PMR-CHC would be similar too and same with CHC-DUD or CHC-ZQN. To me, these include the main routes in which the AT7 operates.. Sure, there are a handful more but I'd base it around that so maybe 7 or even 8 cycles a day?

The AT7s don't seem too old. Though a far bigger order of ATR 72-600s could see them replace the -500 fleet sometime in the next 5-10 years.. Or so I'd imagine. They're already looking to replace some Q300 flights with the -600 when that comes in so any extra order of -600s is surely going to cater for some more transitions to Q300 flights as well.

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 32):
Is CHC capable of taking an A380 if Auckland was closed?

IIRC CHC was A380-capable before AKL was.. Though it doesn't mean they had/have a dual airbridge; so disembarking/boarding would be a huge hassle.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinehaggis73 From New Zealand, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16734 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 22):
'All Black' (identical to the A320s but with a larger Koru and no 'Crazy About Rugby' titles):
ZK-OKQ, ZK-EAG
Quoting 777ER (Reply 23):
Two more 1900Ds are still to be painted black, so a total of 9 aircraft once finished.

ZK-EAK was repainted at the end of Jan in the All Black livery. Was only out for a month or so if my memory serves me correctly before going back in the hanger for wing checks.


User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16740 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 39):
IIRC CHC was A380-capable before AKL was.. Though it doesn't mean they had/have a dual airbridge; so disembarking/boarding would be a huge hassle.

Do you think in the future that CHC will build a Double Airbridge so that it can properly handle an A380 because you never know EK might want to send one of their 90 A380 to CHC one day

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 39):
The AT7s don't seem too old. Though a far bigger order of ATR 72-600s could see them replace the -500 fleet sometime in the next 5-10 years.. Or so I'd imagine.

Yes but how does a 16 year old -500 stack up against a brand new -600 economically

Also on TP issues how old are the oldest B1900Ds and if they need and when what would they be replaced with.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16731 times:

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 41):
Also on TP issues how old are the oldest B1900Ds and if they need and when what would they be replaced with.

First one arrived in 2001 as far as I'm aware so thats 11 years old for the oldest one. The replacement will be interesting though, lack of replacements in the 19 seat market at the moment.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 16693 times:

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 41):
Also on TP issues how old are the oldest B1900Ds and if they need and when what would they be replaced with.
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 42):
First one arrived in 2001 as far as I'm aware so thats 11 years old for the oldest one. The replacement will be interesting though, lack of replacements in the 19 seat market at the moment.

ZK-EAP was the last Beech 1900 ever made - delivered November 2002, so nearly 10 years old. ZK-EAQ and ZK-EAR were originally delivered in 1999 to Commutair (registered N846CA and N845CA respectively) and joined the Eagle Air fleet in 2007 and 2008.

As for Beech 1900 replacements, the only aircraft of comparable capacity that remain in production are the RUAG Dornier 228NG and the Lett L-410 Turbolet (and maybe the Cessna Caravan - but that is a long shot). I very much doubt that Eagle Air will operate any of those. I expect that Air New Zealand will run the Beech 1900s for as long as they can - maybe buying a few extra for parts. Once they become uneconomical to operate some routes will probably get up-gauged to the Q300s and the ones that don't make money will likely get cut.



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineMegatop747-412 From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 16557 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 43):

So does that mean it will be "the end" of Eagle Air? I know it is part of the Air NZ group but just wondering would it cease to exist as a separate entity by then...


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 16545 times:

Quoting Megatop747-412 (Reply 44):
So does that mean it will be "the end" of Eagle Air? I know it is part of the Air NZ group but just wondering would it cease to exist as a separate entity by then...

3 bases, 3 management structures, 3 fleets, 3 separate crew pools is untenable. The lack of suitable replacement for the 1900D leaves only one option I think


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 16304 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 45):

A little big but why not the Embraer Brasilia? A growth to 30-seats can't be beyond the realm of many of those smaller provincial routes. Is it too old? Well NZ took the last 733's off the lot and the near last B1900's.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineA330NZ From New Zealand, joined Dec 2010, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 16294 times:

I was flying back home from a holiday in Vietnam yesterday, and I had a rather long layover in SIN

While I was there, I spotted an NZ 777-200ER parked outside

Does anyone know why it was there??


User currently onlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16246 times:

Quoting A330NZ (Reply 47):
I was flying back home from a holiday in Vietnam yesterday, and I had a rather long layover in SIN

While I was there, I spotted an NZ 777-200ER parked outside

Does anyone know why it was there??

Flight Centre Global Ball charter ... flew Friday 13/07/12 AKL/SYD/SIN


User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16209 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 46):
A little big but why not the Embraer Brasilia

I thought those went out of production about the same time as the B1900D

If ATR produces the ATR-92 do you think that might buy them to replace the ATR-72-500's because it is a long jump from ATR-72 to A320

Maybe in 2025 the domestic fleet might look something like this
Eagle Airways: 20 ATR-42 (700's?)
Air Nelson: 20 ATR-72
Mount Cook: 10 ATR-92
Mainline: 15 A320neo

Would Nelson be able to handle all the heavy maintenance of these or would some of it have to go elsewhere?


User currently offlineaerocabin From New Zealand, joined Mar 2011, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 16199 times:

Hi everyone,

I'm a regular visitor to this thread but hardly ever post! Just a question re: the NZ subsidaries:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 45):
3 bases, 3 management structures, 3 fleets, 3 separate crew pools is untenable. The lack of suitable replacement for the 1900D leaves only one option I think

While Mount Cook is a NZ subsidiary, does it still do its own recruitment etc? I see Air Nelson and Eagle Air have their own websites and recruitment but Mount Cook doesn't seem to have such a separate presence (at least online) anymore.

Thanks,
aerocabin


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16155 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 46):
Is it too old?

Technically Embraer could still offer it if the tooling is available (commonality with ERJ135/145 so likely some), but it is out of production. One wonders how quickly and easily it could be achieved, especially given that the NZ order would not be a big order. Better to get the latest ATR-42 option and get rid of both the Dash 8s & 1900Ds with one type. Besides, I don't deem many of the routes that couldn't justify an increase to a larger aircraft to be worth flying commercially anyway. The Caravan is more than enough aircraft for those routes.

Quoting aerocabin (Reply 50):
While Mount Cook is a NZ subsidiary, does it still do its own recruitment etc?

I' would presume it is does, given that they operate a type that is not operated by Air New Zealand. All advertisements still specify working for Mount Cook Airlines.


User currently offlinenzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 16228 times:

Quoting aerocabin (Reply 50):
While Mount Cook is a NZ subsidiary, does it still do its own recruitment etc? I see Air Nelson and Eagle Air have their own websites and recruitment but Mount Cook doesn't seem to have such a separate presence (at least online) anymore.

Yes Mt Cook does select its own crew . Normally only advertised in CHC as it is it's only base at the moment .



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineaerocabin From New Zealand, joined Mar 2011, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 16164 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 51):
I' would presume it is does, given that they operate a type that is not operated by Air New Zealand. All advertisements still specify working for Mount Cook Airlines.
Quoting nzrich (Reply 52):
Yes Mt Cook does select its own crew . Normally only advertised in CHC as it is it's only base at the moment .

Thanks for that!


User currently offlineduff From New Zealand, joined Oct 2001, 117 posts, RR: 1
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16124 times:

I'm assuming from your name that you are asking about Cabin Crew recruitment which I think is done separately. However, pilot recruitment is centralised and is done by Air New Zealand in Auckland.

User currently offlineaerocabin From New Zealand, joined Mar 2011, 52 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16100 times:

Quoting duff (Reply 54):
I'm assuming from your name that you are asking about Cabin Crew recruitment which I think is done separately. However, pilot recruitment is centralised and is done by Air New Zealand in Auckland.

I was just wondering overall - including crew, maintenance and operational/management. Mainly as there is still an online presence for both Eagle Air and Air Nelson's recruitment but Mount Cook doesn't seem to anymore. Thanks for the info though!


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 16089 times:

Quoting aerocabin (Reply 55):
I was just wondering overall - including crew, maintenance and operational/management. Mainly as there is still an online presence for both Eagle Air and Air Nelson's recruitment but Mount Cook doesn't seem to anymore. Thanks for the info though!

Its flight crew through a 'recruit to group' system (all pilots apply for all 3 links and they are put where they are deemded best suited). Everything else AFAIK is through the individual companies


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 15862 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 26):
It comes down to consistency of product for me, Passengers need to know what they will be offered as product onboard will not change from flight to flight, or destination to destination. Informed, Content passengers tend to give better result and tend to pay more too if it is a service worth paying for.

Are you are referring to the long haul services and the difference's between the 77E and 77W in Y and Y+ ? The A320 TT services can hardly be considered conducive to a good experience as the first or last leg of a AKL - LAX/SFO service.
How uniform is the standard of long haul cabin crews? Past observations have suggested to me that it only takes one crew person to make the crew on one side of the aircraft less hospitable than the crew on the other side.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 15824 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 57):
Are you are referring to the long haul services and the difference's between the 77E and 77W in Y and Y+

Yes predominantly, but there is no uniformity from one type to the next as you say and I think from my own passenger experiences and from things passengers have told me on the ground, or that I have overheard I think it is a major reason the reviews are not consistently better. Passengers don't understand why they are different (even if the reasons may be valid), they just notice that they are different... Most wouldn't mind if they were not paying a "premium" fare for the LCC 320 experience but they are.

The downgrade from longhaul to 320 product needn't be a bad thing. I flew Turkish recently on a longhaul 77W connecting with a 320 and had a very pleasurable experience, even though I went to economy on the shorthaul sector. The Salmon fillet in Y class was equal to NZ premium economy and the service very good. There was no feeling of being cheated paying a more expensive fare. (in fact the fare was half that of the equivalent NZ fare for the route) That is the reason they are at 7 on the global list and the reason they won best European airline.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 57):
Past observations have suggested to me that it only takes one crew person to make the crew on one side of the aircraft less hospitable than the crew on the other side.

Quite correct, I have had direct experience of this on a recent flight too. FSM/ISC were both great, but the crew member working my side of the C cabin was not the usual standard I would expect. However my interactions with the other crew within the cabin would indicate that it was a one off crew onboard, not the norm.

Even so,I feel the physical product inconsistencies affects more people than just a minute number of rogue cabin crew. It is about meeting service expectations. If you book premium economy because you have heard about a new product that is the only thing advertised on the website, and you end up with the old PE on a 77E, no amount of wonderful cabin service (which is provided) can make up for that feeling you have paid for a service you didn't get.


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 15810 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 58):
There was no feeling of being cheated paying a more expensive fare

This is a very well written post, and I agree wholeheartedly with all the sentiments expressed. There are an increasing number of examples of how one might "feel cheated" with the NZ product. As well as the situations listed above, the Y cabin on the 77W, and exhorbitantly priced J to North America are other examples which spring to mind. Compare this with my flight AKL-CDG last month on Thai. I flew J between AKL and BKK, and F between BKK and CDG. It was fantastic, and cost me approx $9000 - only fractionally more than a return J class fare to North America on NZ.

I am very glad NZ has taken a bit of a hammering in the recent Skytrax ratings. It might - just might - make someone at NZ wake up and realise that the value for money equation has been shifted downwards past a point that their pax are prepared to tolerate, and that no amount of "matey" advertising, muppets, or the ability to order drinks via the IFE will compensate for a cramped and overpriced hard product.


User currently onlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 15624 times:

HA is to start HNL-AKL service 3x per week using their 763.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/busine...aiian-airlines-to-start-nz-flights



John@SFO
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15359 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 60):

A good alternative to NZ. Hope they have some good introductory airfares as they will be competing and growing the market exclusively on price.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15336 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 61):
Hope they have some good introductory airfares as they will be competing and growing the market exclusively on price

and of course the fact they will be offering seamless transfers to Hawaiian destinations other than HNL. But never fear - you can rest assured that NZ have a new paint job/airpoints 'enhancement'/safety video up their sleeve to thwart this new threat.

[Edited 2012-07-16 01:24:40]

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 15275 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 61):
Hope they have some good introductory airfares as they will be competing and growing the market exclusively on price.

I think the standard fares will be very competitive. The Intro fares should be even better. If you lop the same percentage off AKL-HNL NZ fares as it is compared to SYD/BNE-HNL NZ fares it'll be a very reasonable fare indeed, and easily comparable to a Seat only fare I think.


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15224 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 60):
HA is to start HNL-AKL service 3x per week using their 763.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/busine...ights

Hmm . . . I went to the Hawaiian website to see if I could find their press release - but they don't seem to have them available on-line. I typed "Auckland" into their web-site's search box and came up with . . . nothing.

Could do better?



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently onlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 15207 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 64):

Here is a link to the Hawaiian website announcing the service. I believe it should be loaded by now.


http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1714739&highlight=



John@SFO
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 15144 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 65):
Here is a link to the Hawaiian website announcing the service. I believe it should be loaded by now.

Thanks



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 67, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 15116 times:

BNE-HNL = 4,700 miles
AKL-HNL = 4,400 miles

Hawaiian fares:
BNE-HNL return Economy = $1019
BNE-HNL-LAX/SFO return Economy = $1599
BNE-HNL-JFK return Economy = $1799
BNE-HNL return Business = $3200

For comparison:
Air NZ AKL-HNL return Seat Only = NZ$1383 ($1544 to include same baggage/food/IFE as Hawaiian)
Air NZ AKL-HNL return Business = NZ$5000

As you can see, Air NZ's current fare levels are around 25-30% higher allowing for A$/NZ$ conversion.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 68, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14882 times:

Fyfe was quoted a year or so ago that NZ was a LCC.

Quoting gasman (Reply 59):
I am very glad NZ has taken a bit of a hammering in the recent Skytrax ratings. It might - just might - make someone at NZ wake up and realise that the value for money equation has been shifted downwards past a point that their pax are prepared to tolerate, and that no amount of "matey" advertising, muppets, or the ability to order drinks via the IFE will compensate for a cramped and overpriced hard product.

Very well said. Does Luzon have to wait for Fyfe to move on before he starts putting his stamp on the airline. The dumbing down has shown up in the Skytrax big time. It has been reported a number of times in A.Net how careful CX is to offer a consistent level of hard product and cabin service. I believe ANA , QR , ET and TK are others that pay a lot of attention to maintaining uniformity . NZ blew it with the switch from the 744 to the 77W and the failure to follow through with the 77E upgrade. It would not surprise me if it costs them much more than they saved to reverse the trend . They can do all sorts of surveys but something like Skytrax says an awful lot. If it is at odds with their internal surveys they need to ask whether they are asking the right questions of the right people.


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 14848 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 68):
Fyfe was quoted a year or so ago that NZ was a LCC.

I can certainly understand what Rob was saying, but someone needs to explain to him that "Low Cost" can be interpreted to mean "doesn't cost very much".

 


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5173 posts, RR: 6
Reply 70, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14819 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 67):
BNE-HNL return Business = $3200

Thats quite low... will be interesting to see if they actually make money from it.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 71, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14830 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting anstar (Reply 70):
Thats quite low... will be interesting to see if they actually make money from it.

Yes, indeed - good luck at those prices.

And $1019 round trip BNE-HNL in Y? I don't see it, unless those are still the introductory fares.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 72, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14763 times:

Mariner, those are long-term fares.

The flight is similar in duration to London to Chicago or Miami, where the equivalent fares (£650 economy, £2000 Business) would not be considered low or unsustainable.

And although Hawaiian's 767 Business seat has similar width to Air NZ's, pitch is shorter, permitting a higher density cabin, and yield optimization.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 73, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14714 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 72):
Mariner, those are long-term fares.

The flight is similar in duration to London to Chicago or Miami, where the equivalent fares (£650 economy, £2000 Business) would not be considered low or unsustainable.


I see you're pricing in quid, not dollars. And - of course - there's quite a diff between A$ and NZ$.

I've found plenty of $1000 fares BNE-HNL one way, but I think $1000 - round trip/economy - is low compared with the prices I was offered: Jetstar at $2000 (round trip) for example.

I tried Hawaiian in September (round trip) and was offered $2700 on Orbitz. Good luck luck on the Hawaiian website, by the way - I lost patience with it after entering five dates and getting "no flights," despite using their prompt as to flight days.

Now - I have no doubt you can find other, lower fares, but you have to hunt around and I suspect you have to be a bit savvy.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 14685 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 68):
They can do all sorts of surveys but something like Skytrax says an awful lot. If it is at odds with their internal surveys they need to ask whether they are asking the right questions of the right people.

Rob Fyfe on the record has said that he is anti-research. He follows his instinct. He likes being nimble and not afriad of making mistakes. Not sure that is how you should run an airline.


User currently offlineAndrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (2 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 14664 times:

Sorry if this has been asked before on this forum
What is NZ using for European connections now that BMI is gone?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 76, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 14513 times:

Quoting Andrensn (Reply 75):

LH. SK and seemingly BA?(according to airfares available) Keep in mind that most European bound traffic leaves NZ in HKG/LAX/SFO/PVG to connect with LH to MUC FRA.


User currently offlineNZ2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (2 years 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 14277 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 73):
I tried Hawaiian in September (round trip) and was offered $2700 on Orbitz. Good luck luck on the Hawaiian website, by the way - I lost patience with it after entering five dates and getting "no flights," despite using their prompt as to flight days.

I have used HA 3 times in the last 4 years for flights from HNL to the outer isalnds, I found their website easy to use and no problems with the flights themselves. I am sure once they get AKL loaded it will be also very easy to book from AKL


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 78, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 13873 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 59):
There are an increasing number of examples of how one might "feel cheated" with the NZ product.

To add to the examples, if you buy a PE fare between AKL and a N. American destination beyond LAX/SFO/YVR, NZ dumps you into the lowest fare bucket for the N. American leg - which usually means un-upgradeable, poor/no seat selection, no lounge access.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 79, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 13832 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 76):
Quoting Andrensn (Reply 75):

LH. SK and seemingly BA?(according to airfares available) Keep in mind that most European bound traffic leaves NZ in HKG/LAX/SFO/PVG to connect with LH to MUC FRA.

You'd have to wonder why NZ doesn't take full advantage of their staralliance membership and have direct connex at LHR to LH, LO, LX, OS, SK, SN, TP, TK and others. Keeping pax aboard your own metal for as long as possible is the most profitable option and then seamless transitions to partners' services. Other Euro connex at LAX, SFO, NRT, YVR, HKG, PVG are great too but NZ should try and ensure dedicated travel on board in one direction (with return Euro fares).



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 80, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13693 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 78):
To add to the examples, if you buy a PE fare between AKL and a N. American destination beyond LAX/SFO/YVR, NZ dumps you into the lowest fare bucket for the N. American leg - which usually means un-upgradeable, poor/no seat selection, no lounge access

Do you do this or do you get two tickets, one for YVR/SFO/LAX-AKL and return and another for YOW to the West Coast and return?


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13642 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 79):
You'd have to wonder why NZ doesn't take full advantage of their staralliance membership and have direct connex at LHR to LH, LO, LX, OS, SK, SN, TP, TK and others.

Perhaps more people going to other parts of Europe would prefer 1 stop journey to 2 stops.


User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 82, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 81):

Indeed, so guess NZ has to make sure their product is a really compelling proposition. I do prefer NZ to most other airlines when flying longhaul and would be a little unsure about some of the other carriers' products.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

More spats between NZ and WLG!


''Wellington Airport gouging $100m excess profit - Air NZ''

Wellington International Airport, owned by Infratil and the capital city's holding company, has extracted $100 million in excessive profits with its most recent price increases for airport services, says its biggest customer Air New Zealand.

"Wellington Airport is certainly the most aggressive airport," outgoing chief executive Rob Fyfe told BusinessDesk after appearing at Parliament's finance and expenditure committee where he told MPs landing fees in aggregate were set to rise by $200 million over the next five years.

read the whole story at;

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/well...-100m-excess-profit-air-nz-4976185



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 84, posted (2 years 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13560 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 79):
You'd have to wonder why NZ doesn't take full advantage of their staralliance membership and have direct connex at LHR to LH, LO, LX, OS, SK, SN, TP, TK

Personally if I have the choice, I'm not going to transit LHR to go anywhere - the only reason to go is for me visiting London. The taxes are ridiculous, the airport is not as pleasant as it should be, and I would rather just fly one stop via SIN/BKK/NRT using the non-euro carriers to where I want to go on the continent AND pay less for it for a competitive product. For secondary airports (2 stoppers) I would/have use(d) TK via IST , which flies everywhere in Europe and have my bags cleared to final destination or I would use ZRH using SQ/LX . It beats using LHR/CDG/FRA at all for transit. . Really, taking advantage of Star feed should really not even involve LHR at all, it is the historical link with UK that makes it the focal point, not the fact that everyone in Star happens to fly there.

The product is either better, the airport facilities/connections better or the price is cheaper as a compromise. Currently that's a no on at least two counts, and arguably on the third as well on some aircraft. NZ has so much to offer if it can find the right balance again.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 83):

''Wellington Airport gouging $100m excess profit - Air NZ''

Glass houses.Stones. Kettle. Black. Most businesses in New Zealand are like that, because they can in a market with no competition. No such thing as a free market here. Yes Infratil are greedy, but we have to be realistic - that is just the New Zealand way of things. Milk, Fuel, Houses, Rentals, Restaurants and many many more things besides are inflated well above where they need to be for sustainable profit. Instead of making more for less and putting a smaller, more reasonable margin on top, we just inflate each unit price to an exorbitant margin to make profit.

The cost of living is far and away higher than most places in the world, no wonder no tourists are coming here...(as per the Herald article today)...
It costs more to get here, then it costs too much day to day to travel long enough to justify the long journey... holiday costs in N.Z per day (regardless of airfares and distance) are going to cost more than anywhere in the US, Asia, South America, Africa, Caribbean and even everywhere in Europe except maybe Switzerland.


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 85, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13367 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 78):
To add to the examples, if you buy a PE fare between AKL and a N. American destination beyond LAX/SFO/YVR, NZ dumps you into the lowest fare bucket for the N. American leg - which usually means un-upgradeable, poor/no seat selection, no lounge access.

An example which I was aware of, which is why I have just purchased a premium economy journey AKL-JFK via SYD and LAX on QF. It was $500 cheaper than NZ, the timing is much more civilized, and I actually get a decent premium economy seat for the LAX-JFK leg as opposed to seat 18B on some 737.


User currently offlineLoveNZ From New Zealand, joined Jul 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13313 times:

Hi everyone,

I have just joined A.net after 5 years of reading this website almost daily. I am interested to know how long you think it will take NZ to decide whether DPS would be a year round destination or whether they might extend the season? Or are we confident on this just being a seasonal route?

LoveNZ


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 87, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13293 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 80):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 78):To add to the examples, if you buy a PE fare between AKL and a N. American destination beyond LAX/SFO/YVR, NZ dumps you into the lowest fare bucket for the N. American leg - which usually means un-upgradeable, poor/no seat selection, no lounge access
Do you do this or do you get two tickets, one for YVR/SFO/LAX-AKL and return and another for YOW to the West Coast and return?

With my next USA/Canada trips I'm booking the LAX/SFO/YVR sectors with NZ and booking UA/US/AC directly. Can get US first class for roughly the same price as UA economy


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 88, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13310 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting LoveNZ (Reply 86):

I was on the third DPS flight. The flight there was 98-100% full with the return flight being around 70% full. IMHO NZ is onto a winner with DPS and would be surprised if NZ doesn't extend the service!


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 89, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13218 times:

Quoting 777ER (Reply 88):
I was on the third DPS flight. The flight there was 98-100% full with the return flight being around 70% full. IMHO NZ is onto a winner with DPS and would be surprised if NZ doesn't extend the service!

Yes I concede that it is doing ok, but seats to suit. No way, I have my reasons for this that I can't tell you workwise.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13214 times:

Quoting LoveNZ (Reply 86):
I am interested to know how long you think it will take NZ to decide whether DPS would be a year round destination or whether they might extend the season? Or are we confident on this just being a seasonal route?
Quoting 777ER (Reply 88):
IMHO NZ is onto a winner with DPS and would be surprised if NZ doesn't extend the service!

I would have said the same, but keep in mind that Garuda Intends to begin flights to Auckland again - maybe from DPS. This could make the route less economically viable and therefore less likely to be extended. Welcome to the forum LoveNZ.



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 91, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13208 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 80):
Do you do this or do you get two tickets, one for YVR/SFO/LAX-AKL and return and another for YOW to the West Coast and return?
Quoting gasman (Reply 85):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 87):

Since I know what about it, I buy separate tickets. But I've had numerous conversations with other infrequent PE pax returning from Canada/US complaining about the shitty seats, lack of lounge access, etc and vowing that they will not fly UA/US/AC again. Under Canadian law, NZ's practice of doing this without telling pax that their PE fare is buying them the lowest class of fare would be illegal.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13027 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 84):
Personally if I have the choice, I'm not going to transit LHR to go anywhere - the only reason to go is for me visiting London.

I'm inclined to agree with you that LHR is - or more accurately, was - a terrible airport to transit. With most of Star in T1 it isn't too terrible now, and I am kind of surprised NZ doesn't use it as more of a transit point than they currently do. Transit passengers shouldn't be affected by UK APD as long as there is no stopover (or it is under 24h).

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 84):
holiday costs in N.Z per day (regardless of airfares and distance) are going to cost more than anywhere in the US, Asia, South America, Africa, Caribbean and even everywhere in Europe except maybe Switzerland.

I'm pretty sure I don't agree with that. NYC will exceed NZ holiday costs (assuming you were to holiday in AKL for comparison), amongst others. JNB, SIN, etc are all pretty pricey too.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 91):
lack of lounge access

That puzzles me. NZ don't give PE passengers access to lounges in any case, and if the passenger was *G then they'd get lounge access regardless.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 93, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12950 times:

And there we have it - the talk about the new livery comes down to changing the koru to black and altering the font.

http://theflyingsocialnetwork.com/archives/3357



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 94, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 12946 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 93):

And there we have it - the talk about the new livery comes down to changing the koru to black and altering the font.

http://theflyingsocialnetwork.com/ar.../3357

       
Oh dear, that looks terrible. The current teal blue/green on the tails is beautiful as was the pacific wave scheme (which I want back).

I have started a new thread for the livery change/modification here
New Livery/Tail Scheme For Air New Zealand (by zkojq Jul 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-07-19 21:04:13]


Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 95, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12928 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 94):
The current teal blue/green on the tails is beautiful as was the pacific wave scheme (which I want back).

Same here. I'm just thinking about how boring going to the airport will be in a few years (actually, it kinda is already a little boring!).



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 96, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12849 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 93):

Since when was black our national colour? Would prefer to see a fleet wide 'All Black' design tail scheme like on the 2x A320s etc


User currently offlinejamesnz From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 12649 times:

I started tracking these threads back in 2006 because there was talk of a new livery back then. If I recall correctly some people had insights into what it would look like but were not able to share due to its imminent release.. fastforward six years and here we are. Obviously this modification is not what was being discussed back then - anyone able to share what the hypothesised 2006 livery was going to look like?

User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 98, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12459 times:

Well at least New Zealand is good for something even if the airline can't get an award!

''Auckland International Airport is named the Best Airport in Australia/Pacific''

World Airport Awards 2012


1. Auckland International Airport
2. Sydney Airport
3. Brisbane Airport

Auckland International Airport wins the award as the Best Airport in Australia/Pacific

Auckland International Airport was again named Best Airport in the Australia / Pacific region at the 2012 World Airport Awards held at the Passenger Terminal EXPO in Vienna.

"We congratulate Auckland on their success at this year's awards. Winning both the Best Airport Australia/Pacific and Best Airport Staff Service in Australia/Pacific is a real statement of quality in terms of both product and service standards. Overall, we have seen an improvement in performance for several major airports in this category and Auckland should be pleased that it is still considered the premier airport in this region." said Edward Plaisted, Chairman of SKYTRAX.

http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards_2012/bestairport_auspac.htm



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 99, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12473 times:

Just for the hell of it… if I were the new NZ CEO I'd try and get board approval to…

1/ Retire the 77E and 763 fleets
2/ Order A332HGW fleet as interim lift
3/ Cancel the 789 order
4/ Order the A350-800, 900 & 1000 to replace the A332's and eventually 77W's.

I'd also…
1/ Introduce premium economy on regional international fleet (the current 77W standard) of A32X and A332's (no biz prem on regional fleet)
2/ Reintroduce SIN with India codeshares on whichever Indian airline/s are to join staralliance
3/ And fast-track route development from AKL to EZE-GRU and MEL-JNB. With AV/TA, and VA/DJ & SA respectively.

Any other suggestions other than keep Black as a sport sponsorship opportunity ONLY and refine the livery with the teal heritage brand colours of green and blue?

This is all in good humour.
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 100, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12428 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 98):

That wasn't hard, especially when they were up against the likes of SYD and BNE.. 
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 99):

1/ Retire the 77E and 763 fleets
2/ Order A332HGW fleet as interim lift
3/ Cancel the 789 order
4/ Order the A350-800, 900 & 1000 to replace the A332's and eventually 77W's.

Sounds like the FJ plan  



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 101, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12417 times:

Quoting jamesnz (Reply 97):
I started tracking these threads back in 2006 because there was talk of a new livery back then. If I recall correctly some people had insights into what it would look like but were not able to share due to its imminent release.. fastforward six years and here we are

You are quite right, and I too remember those discussions well. Another thing that was never made apparrent was why the Pacific Wave on the fuselage got phased out. Whatever one might think of the wave itself, it is surely an improvement over a featureless white tube.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 99):
Just for the hell of it… if I were the new NZ CEO I'd try and get board approval to…

1. Standardise the hard product
2. Return to 9 abreast in Y on the 77W
3. Return the loyalty scheme to something approaching one.
4. Introduce AKL-LAS-MAN
5. Introduce a mandatory BMI below 30 for FAs.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 102, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12454 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 99):

What would you do with Seats 2 Suit? and the 10 abreast in Y?


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 103, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12440 times:

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 102):
What would you do with Seats 2 Suit? and the 10 abreast in Y?

Not sure on Seats to Suit in regional services but there will be a premium service in Y+. 10-abreast in Y on the 77W will stay as long as that fleet does. Expect 9-abreast on the A350 fleet as standard.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 100):
Sounds like the FJ plan

Not following?!

Quoting gasman (Reply 101):
1. Standardise the hard product

Agreed, very important.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 104, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12439 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 103):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 100):Sounds like the FJ plan
Not following?!

Just saying you could have thought of a more unique strategy!



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 105, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12449 times:

If we are playing "I'm the new CEO"........

1) Restrict Seats 2 Suit to Tasman, Fiji, Samoa, and with a 2 row premium cabin identical to long-haul 77W Premium Economy, which can be sold as Business or Premium Economy according to the route in question.

2) Make the long-haul fleet all-777 (with 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft to follow). Standardise the product across the long-haul fleet, with BP, 77W-style Premium Economy, and 3-3-3 Economy.

3) Order extra 777 aircraft, mainly 77Ws but also 77L aircraft.

4) Extend AKL-PER on to Johannesburg using the 77L.

5) Add a PER-LHR flight, also using the 77L.

6) Extend AKL-SFO on to LHR.

7) Extend AKL-LAX (NZ5/6) on to MAN, four times weekly peak season, twice weekly off-season.

8) Restore Airpoints to being a distance/class based product, not denominated in dollars, and restrict inventory like all other airlines do. Allow Status Earning on all NZ-coded flights, regardless of the operator, like almost every other Star Alliance carrier does.

9) Launch a grovelling, fawning pursuit of all departed frequent flyers of all elite tiers, apologise for the misguided downgrading of the program, and offer them 2 years at their former status.

10) Publically distance the airline from the reforms of the last three years, apologise to the broader New Zealand public, and ask for forgiveness. "We apologise for the mistakes of the last few years. We were trying to be flexible, but we realise that we offended our core markets and we apologise for how we used advertising to try to mislead people about those changes. We distance ourselves from what we did and the people who did it are leaving now. Now we are going to review every single change we made, and make sure that Air New Zealand can go back to being the first choice for every Kiwi travelling overseas. We are not going to be the airline that squeezes you in like sardines any more."

11) Open AKL-SIN and extend a daily widebody WLG-BNE and CHC-MEL on to SIN, and then base four A320 aircraft at SIN, flying to Bangalore, Bombay, Calcutta and Delhi. This should allow Air NZ to grow inbound tourism from India to Australia as well as NZ.

12) Reopen the sectors from LAX to NAN, APW and PPT, and aggressively use them to re-engage the lost European and British markets.

13) Use the investment in Virgin Australia to get them to exit their DeltaV arrangement across the Pacific, and replace it with a joint venture with Air NZ.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 106, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12425 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 105):
1) Restrict Seats 2 Suit to Tasman, Fiji, Samoa, and with a 2 row premium cabin identical to long-haul 77W Premium Economy, which can be sold as Business or Premium Economy according to the route in question.

Then you would lose me as a customer on any of my frequent trips to Australia, especially PER.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 107, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12414 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 106):
Then you would lose me as a customer on any of my frequent trips to Australia, especially PER.

If you are so price-sensitive that you want to save $70 on a 6.5 hour flight by renouncing baggage, IFE and catering then you would go to Jetstar with my blessing. (Or $50 on an East Coast flight).

I think that an extra $50 or $70 for baggage, food, drink, IFE and mileage-based Airpoints accrual is an attractive deal, and it is certainly one that allows a reasonable margin for the airline's bottom line.

I don't believe that an airline can be all things to all men. It has to choose a niche, and you can't shoehorn a passenger with a $10,000 Business Premier ticket into a Works Deluxe Economy seat for his/her Tasman sector, and you can't make a passenger with a $4500 Premium Economy ticket sit in ordinary Economy on Tasman and Pacific Island sectors while Economy passengers who bought Works Deluxe occupy the Premium Economy seats.

[Edited 2012-07-20 20:00:00]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 108, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12402 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 107):
If you are so price-sensitive that you want to save $70 on a 6.5 hour flight by renouncing baggage, IFE and catering then you would go to Jetstar with my blessing. (Or $50 on an East Coast flight).

When did I renounce baggage, IFE and catering? And I have no idea where you got $70 from.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 109, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12405 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 108):
When did I renounce baggage, IFE and catering? And I have no idea where you got $70 from.

You said that if Seats 2 Suit was axed, you wouldn't fly to Perth anymore.

On AKL-PER, the Works fare equates to the old all-inclusive fare. The only "new" products are that you can renounce your IFE and catering for $40 to purchase "Seat Plus Bag", or you can renounce them plus your luggage for $70 to purchase "Seat".

(I'm not even going to discuss "Works Deluxe" because it is a Premium Economy seat on a 6.5 hour flight, and it should damn well be sold as Premium Economy.)

I'm sure that you're not saying that you like Seats 2 Suit because it has taken away your ability to buy Business and Premium Economy seats, so you must be espousing your ability to save $50 or $70 by making yourself thirsty, uncomfortable and bored on board and malodorous throughout your trip as you use your hand-luggage as your wardrobe!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 110, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12409 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 109):
You said that if Seats 2 Suit was axed, you wouldn't fly to Perth anymore.

No - I said I wouldn't fly with Air New Zealand.

Quoting koruman (Reply 109):
(I'm not even going to discuss "Works Deluxe" because it is a Premium Economy seat on a 6.5 hour flight, and it should damn well be sold as Premium Economy.)

Works De Luxe was the reason I chose Air New Zealand. It was cheaper than Virgin Australia's Flexifare and had more goodies.

Quoting koruman (Reply 109):
I'm sure that you're not saying that you like Seats 2 Suit because it has taken away your ability to buy Business and Premium Economy seats, so you must be espousing your ability to save $50 or $70 by making yourself thirsty, uncomfortable and bored on board and malodorous throughout your trip as you use your hand-luggage as your wardrobe!

I still have no idea where you're getting these numbers from. They have nothing to do with the numbers I paid.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 111, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12334 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 99):
1/ Retire the 77E and 763 fleets
2/ Order A332HGW fleet as interim lift
3/ Cancel the 789 order
4/ Order the A350-800, 900 & 1000 to replace the A332's and eventually 77W's.

What you haven't said is WHY you would make these changes, especially dumping the 789 order. And even if you did want to standardise on the A350 in its various versions, why would you dump the 77E and 763 fleet in the meantime, just so you could introduce an interim new type, the A330, (with all the attendant costs) for a few years, when you could be operating a well written-down but perfectly acceptable existing fleet for a few years more?

Is there a reason why a 773/789 combination should give way to an A350 fleet?

Quoting koruman (Reply 105):
11) Open AKL-SIN and extend a daily widebody WLG-BNE and CHC-MEL on to SIN, and then base four A320 aircraft at SIN, flying to Bangalore, Bombay, Calcutta and Delhi. This should allow Air NZ to grow inbound tourism from India to Australia as well as NZ.

It's been a while since I liked any of your ideas, K'Man, but this one I do. There's pretty vicious competition between SIN and India, though, so I'd not be expecting to make much on the fifth freedom legs. To me, though, the key is that if the airline is to grow, it has to tap into the Australian market, and I've long thought that wide bodies from CHC and WLG via east coast Australian ports and onward to an Asian hub (and even to Europe, though that looks increasingly unfeasible) was the way to go.

Quoting koruman (Reply 109):
I'm sure that you're not saying that you like Seats 2 Suit because it has taken away your ability to buy Business and Premium Economy seats, so you must be espousing your ability to save $50 or $70 by making yourself thirsty, uncomfortable and bored on board and malodorous throughout your trip as you use your hand-luggage as your wardrobe!

I knew that agreeing with you was too good to last! While I appreciate that you have the funds and the ability to travel in premium classes, the reality is that the majority of the market cannot afford to do so. Frankly, I find it quite insulting that you appear to regard those who cannot afford more luxury, or who (like me) choose to fly more cheaply, as being "thirsty, uncomfortable, bored and malodorous", and by implication unworthy of being catered for.

To my mind, NZ strikes a balance between catering to those who wish to fly in premium classes, and those for whom, for whatever reason, just getting there is the main objective. I absolutely disagree that NZ should cede the lower end of the market to other carriers; it is NZ's national carrier, it's owned by us all for the moment, and probably for a long time yet, notwithstanding present stated intentions, and I for one wish to see it cater to all. Which, by and large, it doesn't do too bad a job at.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 12329 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 111):
I for one wish to see it cater to all. Which, by and large, it doesn't do too bad a job at.

It has been some years since it's catered for me. My needs are simply:

- a comfortable Y product (the 744 with 36" pitch certainly used to qualify). I'm happy to pay the extra few hundred dollars this might cost
- a reasonably priced J product from New Zealand to the USA.

I can't imagine my needs are THAT weird, but NZ clearly believes there aren't enough like minded people to make this a target market.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 113, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12345 times:

I wonder if the 77W is necessary. At 80% load factors NZ is selling about 280 seats . NZ has no present route that needs the range that this offers of ~ 15 to 16hrs. Their longest present sector is YVR-AKL at 14hrs but this does not need the capacity of a 77W . 13hrs is about what is needed in a 77W. I am curious about only 250-seats for the789, only marginally more than the 767. Does it signify a change of heart on hard product? Anybody want to guess what the split will be among the three classes?
The 789 will carry its 250-seat passenger load and 10t of cargo over a 16hr sector. In my view it is well sized for the many talked about future city pairs.
I would be looking at the 787-10 as a just over 300-seater . This will give a payload ~37t over a 13 hr city pair with probably about a 25t fuel saving over the 77W. On LAX-LHR-LAX the payload would be ~ 43t. It will do just about everything the 77W will do but probably at a higher load factor.
If a third entry point is introduced into the USA then it seems possible that there would be less seats needed AKL-LAX/ SFO-AKL because an IAH service could give superior connections in my view to the area east of the Mississippi and Ontario and Quebec, in Canada.


User currently onlinedeconz From New Zealand, joined Nov 2010, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12278 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 112):
- a comfortable Y product (the 744 with 36" pitch certainly used to qualify)

Agreed. However, IIRC it was 34" pitch in Y and 38-40" in the (old) Y+


User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 115, posted (2 years 1 week 2 days ago) and read 12257 times:

Quoting deconz (Reply 114):
Agreed. However, IIRC it was 34" pitch in Y and 38-40" in the (old) Y+

I could be wrong, but I thought up until about 2003 or so it was 36".

Whatever it was, for me it represented the 'comfort baseline'. For me, anything denser in long haul is untenable. I'm 6'3", and just dont fit.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 116, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12217 times:

As far as 2012 awards go, I thought a little analysis (as far as NZ) might be in order. I have tried to be as objective as possible.

World's best Airline.
17 Air New Zealand
A reflection of both the changes made in the last 12 months, and their inconsistencies of product offered. A drop of 10 places in one year. Perhaps the biggest concern is that not only do VA/QF now outrank NZ overall, but other direct competitors SQ,CX,EK,TG,MH,VA,QF & soon to be GA are all above.

The World's best IFE
10 Air New Zealand
An accurate representation (when offered of course..). Again behind VA & QF on the list, and 6 out of 10 carriers fly to AKL.

World's best Business class
Does not rank either overall or for seat product. Perhaps indicative of the changes made to hard product, uncompetitive prices. One wonders how long a carrier can charge significant premiums for a product which does not feature in the top 10, especially when both VA & QF and two other direct competitors are again above on the list.

World's best Premium Economy
Number 3 behind QF & TK overall. probably an accurate representation. Interesting perhaps, is that a 'cheaper/good value' product has outranked the most "state of the art" and 'innovative' but least densely packed product.

World's best PE seat (hard product only)
Number two behind TK, and above QF at 3. NZ's best result this year.

World's best Economy
Does not make top 10. 7 out of 10 carriers here fly to AKL, and again VA have popped up in a top 10. One has to say that both the product inconsistencies between product shorthaul and of course the widely publicised 77W 3-4-3 configuration likely played their part. The Skycouch has not helped gain a top 10 finish in the 'best economy seat' category either.

World's best Biz catering. DNP
World's best PE catering. #2 behind QF and ahead of #3 VA and #4 TK. Good result definitely, but no surprise as effectively is the same as the Biz catering, and given the extra cost of fares.
World's best Y catering. The usual suspects in there again, and VA in there at 10 despite much cheaper long haul fares. GA in there as well, I wonder if this will impact on NZ (DPS product-wise) once they return to AKL skies.

Best airline Australasia. #3 behind VA/QF and one place ahead of JQ... Is this the position they want to take in the market and are happy to stay here?. We know why - No correspondence will be entered into. The other contenders don't really qualify as airlines that are going to worry NZ much.

Best Airline Staff Pacific. #3 behind the VA & QF. Cause for concern, as this has been the strength of NZ for so many years.

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 98):
Well at least New Zealand is good for something even if the airline can't get an award!

''Auckland International Airport is named the Best Airport in Australia/Pacific''

The good news is that AKL has deservedly been knocked out of the top 10. As someone else stated, it is hardly an achievement to get best in a region with so few airports which qualify on a global stage.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 117, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12116 times:

Does anyone know how to book a flight from AKL-YOW on the NZ website. It won't allow you to input any city other than the drop-down list and Ottawa is not on the list. YOW is on the NZ Canadian website, but as soon as you try to book the flight originating in NZL, you get shunted to the NZL site - which does not allow YOW.


Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 118, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12099 times:

to sum it up in short NZ need to go back to the drawing board again! And maybe have really people at the table instead of monkeys or children, because what is being said across the floor is setting a bad image to what was once a good carrier. Will anything good happen! probably not - the new colours - BLACK show this!


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 119, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12063 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 118):
to sum it up in short NZ need to go back to the drawing board again! And maybe have really people at the table instead of monkeys or children, because what is being said across the floor is setting a bad image to what was once a good carrier.

I must have flown on a different airline a couple of weeks ago, because the airline I flew on was certainly s good carrier, and it was called Air New Zealand.

Internet booking was extremely easy, everyone was friendly and helpful - the aborted take-off was beautifully handled - the seat was comfortable, the service was good and the catering fine.

It was all great value for money and I'm not sure what else anyone wants from an airline.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 120, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12062 times:

I just visited Air New Zealand's Australia Facebook page and everything appears to be already in black. Am I the only one who feels the page looks awfully depressing? I have to say using the colour black will be a big mistake.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 121, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11902 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Virgin Australia goes even more bland international:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vir...asses/story-e6frf7jo-1226431600701

"Virgin Australia cabin crew ordered to take etiquette classes

VIRGIN Australia cabin crew are being ordered to take classes in etiquette, posture and language as part of the company's bid to take on Qantas as the airline of choice for business-class passengers.

Among the changes, flight attendants will no longer be able to greet passengers as "mate" - unless the person is a Frequent Flyer and has specifically requested they want to be addressed that way on the airline's database."


I like being called "mate" - but not when they feel they have to do it. My pet peeve is they now use that coy American euphemism "the restrooms."

It's a good airline - and it was cheerfully different. I hope they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 11868 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 119):
I must have flown on a different airline a couple of weeks ago, because the airline I flew on was certainly s good carrier, and it was called Air New Zealand.

No one has said that it isn't possible to have a great experience on Air New Zealand. That doesn't negate the fact there are aspects of their product (for some people here, many aspects) that could, and should, be better.

Quoting mariner (Reply 119):
the seat was comfortable, the service was good and the catering fine.

If the seat was comfortable, I'm guessing you are either of extremely small stature or you weren't flying Y on a 77W  
Quoting mariner (Reply 119):
It was all great value for money and I'm not sure what else anyone wants from an airline

Good value for money (it doesn't have to be great) is certainly high on my list, and again, it is certainly possible to have this experience on Air NZ. The domestic main trunk and occasional trans-tasman specials spring to mind. However the routes that are important to me - the Pacific Islands, J class to the US and Europe - fall well short of anything approaching good value for money.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 123, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11858 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gasman (Reply 123):
No one has said that it isn't possible to have a great experience on Air New Zealand.

Very few have said that it is. But - each to their own, always.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11804 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 124):
No one has said that it isn't possible to have a great experience on Air New Zealand.

Very few have said that it is. But - each to their own, always.

I may be misunderstanding you, but your "resigned" tone implies that there are people here who would criticise NZ purely out of narrowmindedness or some deep seated personal agenda. I would suggest that most who contribute to this thread - and I would place myself in this group - have a genuine desire to see NZ succeed - both commercially, and in the hearts and minds of the travelling public.

The heart/mind side of things has taken a relentless hammering as far as I am concerned since the Ralph Norris days. The recent Skytrax results suggest that some of the 'rantings' made on this forum over the years might just have had some merit. I am not yet past the point of caring that my travel dollar has been diverted to TG, SQ, QF and EK recently. Soon, however, I will be.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 125, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11782 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 124):
I would suggest that most who contribute to this thread - and I would place myself in this group - have a genuine desire to see NZ succeed - both commercially, and in the hearts and minds of the travelling public.
Quoting gasman (Reply 124):
The heart/mind side of things has taken a relentless hammering as far as I am concerned since the Ralph Norris days. The recent Skytrax results suggest that some of the 'rantings' made on this forum over the years might just have had some merit.

Well said


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 126, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 11770 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gasman (Reply 125):
I may be misunderstanding you, but your "resigned" tone implies that there are people here who would criticise NZ purely out of narrowmindedness or some deep seated personal agenda.

In at least some cases, I believe that to be true.

When those of who, by choice, choose Seats to Suit are told that we are "thirsty, uncomfortable, bored on board and "malodorous" - then I think there are unrealistically subjective agendas at work.

So is my tone "resigned"? You betcha.

Quoting gasman (Reply 125):
The heart/mind side of things has taken a relentless hammering as far as I am concerned since the Ralph Norris days.

I think Mr. Norris did an extraordinary job. However, the world has taken a relentless hammering since then, with the ascendent price of fuel/oil, the continuing GFC, the NZ economy in the dunny and the Kiwi $ being used as a toy by overseas speculators - not to forget the rise of the LCC's.

There are many things at Air NZ to criticize - I don't like the new "all black" design - but I am surprised that the airline is still flying and still generally profitable.

There seems to me to be - here - a yearning for the past. I'm an historian and, for me, the past is a wonderful place to visit, I'm lucky enough to be able to spend a deal of my time there, but I don't - and can't - live there.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11810 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 126):
I think Mr. Norris did an extraordinary job

Agreed.

Quoting mariner (Reply 126):
world has taken a relentless hammering since then, with the ascendent price of fuel/oil, the continuing GFC, the NZ economy in the dunny and the Kiwi $ being used as a toy by overseas speculators - not to forget the rise of the LCC's.

And in the 1970's, Britain joined the EU and there was a major global oil shock. A few years later the direness of the New Zealand economy mandated a wage/price freeze. Yet over this time the Air NZ product - at least in terms of seat comfort, pitch and food - was as good if not better than it ever has been before or since. If there has been a period in recent history when we have NOT been constantly told that "times are tough and it's shoulders to the grindstone", I must confess to having missed it. So while it would have been preferable if all the factors you mention had been different; I just don't accept they are justification for the downgrading of airpoints/Ricco/10 abreast on 77W/Seats to suit/ the awful Koru club at AKL international and return J class fares of $8000+ to the West Coast of the USA.


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 128, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11805 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 111):

Because the A332HGW is the right size and spec for NZ right now. The 77E is often too much plane and the 763 underperforms or is too small. Plus the hard-product on both are inconsistent. Return to lessors or sell. Taking the A332 allows the airline to graduate to an Airbus long haul craft in preparation for an A350 fleet where there can be three models to fit each of the size requirements I believe the airline needs. The first will be the 900 which will be there in time to up-gauge some of the new routes developed on the A332's. As the 800 and 1000 models come on line, the A332 and 77W's will be heading for retirement.

NZ should have had a 787 class for tears now and could have had it in the A332. Not saying the 789's a bad choice but why have an eventual 777 and 787 long-haul fleet when you could have one type with three iterations.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 129, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11788 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting gasman (Reply 127):
And in the 1970's, Britain joined the EU and there was a major global oil shock. A few years later the direness of the New Zealand economy mandated a wage/price freeze. Yet over this time the Air NZ product - at least in terms of seat comfort, pitch and food - was as good if not better than it ever has been before or since.

I was here, in Auckland, the night Britain announced the intention to join the EU and people were gathered on the streets of Auckland in anger and despair.

I flew Air NZ quite a lot at that time and Economy was okay but it wasn't anything special. I still flew Air NZ in the 1980's when I had moved to Australia and while First Class was excellent - I doubt the airline could sustain it now - Economy was no more than good.

In one case, when I flew SYD-AKL-LAX, the company had only gifted me an economy ticket and I upgraded myself (at AKL) to First because Y was so ordinary (there was no Business, there was a cabin for very elite FF's and I wasn't).

Now, I grant things may have improved in the boom years of the 1990's - I don't know, I wasn't around and I can only speak about my own experiences.

Quoting gasman (Reply 127):
I just don't accept they are justification for the downgrading of airpoints/Ricco/10 abreast on 77W/Seats to suit/ the awful Koru club at AKL international and return J class fares of $8000+ to the West Coast of the USA.

Each to their own. I agree about Rico, but I liked the Koru Club at AKL four weeks ago. And I'm pricing a trip to LAX for October, Business class, and Air NZ is offering one of the cheaper fares - the cheapest on certain days.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 130, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 11733 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 121):
unless the person is a Frequent Flyer and has specifically requested they want to be addressed that way on the airline's database."

  

I can just imagine what the "update your details" page would look like..

Preferred name: Mate



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 131, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11687 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 130):
I can just imagine what the "update your details" page would look like..

Preferred name: Mate

I just did exactly that.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 132, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 110):
Works De Luxe was the reason I chose Air New Zealand. It was cheaper than Virgin Australia's Flexifare and had more goodies.

And so why can't it be marketed as Premium Economy at that price?

Quoting mariner (Reply 126):
When those of who, by choice, choose Seats to Suit are told that we are "thirsty, uncomfortable, bored on board and "malodorous" - then I think there are unrealistically subjective agendas at work.

Mariner, I'm really sorry, I was just being flippant. I was arguing that people who will buy a $70 cheaper ticket with no baggage allowance when travelling to a destination 3,000 miles away and live out of their hand-luggage are really, really price-sensitive, and I was trying to be light-hearted about it.

My serious point was that Air NZ can't be all things to all men, and that the lowest, most desperately price-sensitive sectors of the market are currently being catered to more than the part which you and I both occupy, where we will pay a bit more for something a bit better.

I've never met you, and I wasn't seriously accusing you of smelling!


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 133, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11586 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 132):
And so why can't it be marketed as Premium Economy at that price?

I don't understand this bee you have in your bonnet about S2S - since you say you only travel up the front, it shouldn't affect you in any way, shape or form.

I accept your apology, of course, but no matter how light-hearted you were trying to be, the mere idea that "poorer" people may be malodorous in your mind is fairly alarming.

Quoting koruman (Reply 132):
I was arguing that people who will buy a $70 cheaper ticket with no baggage allowance when travelling to a destination 3,000 miles away and live out of their hand-luggage are really, really price-sensitive, and I was trying to be light-hearted about it.

I didn't save $70 flying economy. My one way fare was quite healthy (for the airline) but I was treated well and I got the works - including lounge access. Great value for money.

On present quotes, Virgin Australia's Flexifare AKL-PER is more expensive and does not include as many goodies - no lounge access, for example, except as a paid extra.

I don't know what Virgin is doing with their pricing now, but when I came back two weeks ago, there was no Flexifare trans-Tasman - it was either regular economy or Premium Economy, so I paid for PE. I was the only passenger in the section, there were seven empty seats out out eight - perhaps because my MEL-AKL fare was almost as expensive as my AKL-PER fare, for no more value - and no lounge access.

And I don't like Luke Mangan's food, except the meat pie which I guess be ditched as "too Australian" - like "mate".

I'm sorry all you up-the-fronters feel abused, but obviously we have different expectations because I'm sitting pretty.

Why would I not choose Works De Luxe? Apparently, it makes sense for the airline - and it surely makes sense for me.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 134, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Mariner, the problem with Works Deluxe is that on narrow-body flights it is the ONLY option above standard Economy class, even for international flights up to 6 hours.

By the way, I don't always buy Business Class tickets, not by a long chalk. I've always tended to do a lot of Business Class work flights combined with buying Premium Economy (or affordable Business Class) tickets for my family to holiday with me.

In pretty much any major airline loyalty program you can do so and upgrade those Premium Economy (or full Y) fares for your family to Business Class, and everyone is happy. The airline get $50-100K income from the combined family in a year so it's not "giving away" its premium product to any significant degree, and it gets all or most of your custom which could have gone anywhere.

But Air NZ has decided that from now on you get what you pay for, either as your ticket or auction price for the upgrades, and those upgrades are now determined 7 days out (prior to loyalty recognition upgrades).

That is a commercial decision, of course, and we have to accept it. But for many of us that is a deal-breaker.

Qantas offers greater certainty but too be honest I suspect that many of us have defected to airlines with much cheaper Business Class fares, and will just buy those tickets instead. For my part, I've just paid $5549 for two Business Class tickets on Qantas to JFK next year, with both kids getting 25% discounts. If I'd chosen Air NZ I'd have paid $3919 in Premium Economy to LAX.

Air NZ is just making it very hard for elites who fly long-haul to remain loyal.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5297 posts, RR: 11
Reply 135, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11563 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 128):
NZ should have had a 787 class for tears now and could have had it in the A332. Not saying the 789's a bad choice but why have an eventual 777 and 787 long-haul fleet when you could have one type with three iterations.

They did it was the 767. Though it lacked a bit of range for some routes and the floors weren't reinforced to handle Biz Premier. They could have the 788 789 and 7810 aswell, rather than A350s. And many carriers will have 787s and 77Ws they handle different missions and payloads so there is some advantage either way.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 128):
Because the A332HGW is the right size and spec for NZ right now. The 77E is often too much plane and the 763 underperforms or is too small.

So NZ could get A332HGW when late 2013 early 2014? Only to replace them 3-4 years later when the 77Es still aren't old. The A332HGW only became avaliable in the last 4-5 years well after NZ ordered the 77E. While the 763 for years performed well and was efficient on longer routes but the problem was they were weight restricted on some of them. Maybe just a pity they didn't get the 77E earlier say 2000 or even when they retired the 742s in the late 90s. While the 77E is a little big in some areas the A332 would struggle on YVR I would think and other proposed routes.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 136, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11542 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 134):
Mariner, the problem with Works Deluxe is that on narrow-body flights it is the ONLY option above standard Economy class, even for international flights up to 6 hours.

I don't have a problem with that. One mo' time - the seating is essentially the same as Virgin's PE, the goodies are better.

Quoting koruman (Reply 134):
That is a commercial decision, of course, and we have to accept it. But for many of us that is a deal-breaker.

I got that point that you feel all hard-done-by - a thousand times. As I said - not trying to sound smug - I'm sitting pretty. I believe in getting what you pay for. And I did.

Quoting koruman (Reply 134):
Qantas offers greater certainty but too be honest I suspect that many of us have defected to airlines with much cheaper Business Class fares, and will just buy those tickets instead. For my part, I've just paid $5549 for two Business Class tickets on Qantas to JFK next year, with both kids getting 25% discounts. If I'd chosen Air NZ I'd have paid $3919 in Premium Economy to LAX.

Then you got yourself one heck of a deal and I'm not surprised you're skiting about it. I don't think you should ever say an unkind word about Qantas again.

But I have no idea what that has to do with Seats to Suit.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 137, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11534 times:

Mariner, I would hope that most of us exercise a degree of pragmatism before being parted from our own money.

My choice came down to the following two options for 2 adults and 2 kids:

Qantas Business Class BNE-LAX-JFK: total $19,400 for 2 adults and 2 kids.
Air NZ Premium Economy BNE-LAX: total $13,700 for 2 adults and 2 kids, with ordinary Economy on the Tasman, further tickets to be purchased LAX-JFK return ($3000 Economy or $8000 First for the four of us), and the OneUp upgrade lottery likely to require around $8,000 to secure Trans-Pacific upgrades.

I would like to be still buying tickets from my national airline (NZ!) but they re-positioned the loyalty equation, not me, and now I weigh up what it's worth to me.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 138, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11519 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting koruman (Reply 137):
I would like to be still buying tickets from my national airline (NZ!) but they re-positioned the loyalty equation, not me, and now I weigh up what it's worth to me.

I don't have a problem with you shopping around. I don't get this "national loyalty" thing (get the best deal you can) and you choose not to live and pay taxes here, so I don't why you seem to have a problem with it.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11507 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 138):
I don't get this "national loyalty" thing

It's simply nice to feel that one has a mutually beneficial relationship with the airline that you chose to identify with.

I have recently been cheating on my national airline. It started with fiddling around on line, then one thing led to another and before I knew it I was flying F Class to Europe on EK.

Of course, it didn't mean anything, and I was thinking of NZ the whole time. But it never would've happened in the first place if I felt NZ "understood" me.

 


User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 140, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11487 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 135):
They could have the 788 789 and 7810 aswell, rather than A350s.

Could and probably should have. But the 781 isn't confirmed let alone fully defined yet and certainly doesn't look like a 77W replacement. I prefer the A350 from the passenger perspective of those least comfortable in long-haul. A 9-abreast A350 from AKL-YVR is going to be marginally more comfortable than a 9-abreast 787; similarly from AKL-LHR in either direction will be marginally more comfortable in a 9-abreast A350 than a 10-abreast 77W.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 11486 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 140):
A 9-abreast A350 from AKL-YVR is going to be marginally more comfortable than a 9-abreast 787; similarly from AKL-LHR in either direction will be marginally more comfortable in a 9-abreast A350 than a 10-abreast 77W.

True. And an 8 abreast 332 - better still; and a 7 abreast 763 - nirvana!


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 142, posted (2 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 11270 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 128):
Because the A332HGW is the right size and spec for NZ right now

I can't subscribe to this view unless NZ's 77E's are substancially over sized for their market and based on their long haul load factors I find this hard to believe. For YVR-AKL it would provide a payload of less ~20t which is less than max passenger load. There had to be a reason why QF had their's fitted out with ~223-seats. It was probably to be able to do a route like LAX-AKL at max passenger plus a bit. But then for whatever reason it apparently didn't work or the aircraft could be deployed elsewhere more usefully.
Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 140):
But the 781 isn't confirmed let alone fully defined yet and certainly doesn't look like a 77W replacement.

So far as defined is concerned enough is known to get very close on its capabilities. Firstly Boeing has said that it will be in the ~323 seat range and that the landing gear will not be changed to allow an increase in MTOW. Also, the range with max passenger load is to be about 6700nm. These all tell a lot. It is not a 77W replacement but for carriers operating 77W's over 13hr sectors at seat counts in the low 300's the 20t or better fuel saving per sector could be of interest if they fly enough of those sectors.


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 11015 times:

Are we seeing some light at the end of the tunnel?

''June sees highest tourist numbers in seven years''

The number of short-term arrivals rose to a seven-year high for the month of June as a flood of Australians and Chinese tourists came to visit last month.

Some 151,100 people came to New Zealand for a short-term visit in the month of June, the most for that month since 2005 when the British and Irish Lions toured the nation, Statistics New Zealand said.

The increase was led by a 25% gain in the number of Australian visitors to 64,800, of which 29% were kiwis living across the Ditch, and a 7.4% increase in the number of Chinese tourists to 6700.

follow the full story below;

http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/june...ist-numbers-in-seven-years-4978949



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 144, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10635 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 142):

I can't subscribe to this view unless NZ's 77E's are substantially over sized for their market and based on their long haul load factors I find this hard to believe.

Not necessarily substantially over-sized, but a smaller craft would offer more flexibility and be able to offer better frequency for the likes of...

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 142):
For YVR-AKL it would provide a payload of less ~20t which is less than max passenger load.

Currently the 77E flies three times a week on this route where an A358 would be able to offer an extra flight a week to carry the same PAX which would make it overall more attractive via increased frequency. The A332-HGW might not have the legs for it as you say.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 142):
There had to be a reason why QF had their's fitted out with ~223-seats.

Because that was right for its long-haul requirement maybe? Or are you saying they didn't use all available seats on the AKL-LAX sector?

Qantas A330-200 International Seat Map



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 145, posted (2 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10504 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 144):
Not necessarily substantially over-sized, but a smaller craft would offer more flexibility and be able to offer better frequency for the likes of...

I understand what you mean about the 332 in the fleet - because had it been ordered after the second major 787 delay 5 years ago it would have comfortably taken up a hybrid 763/77E role flying to PER/KIX/NRT/HNL/PVG/PEK/HKG/DPS/RAR-LAX/RAR-SYD until the 787s arrive - but it has not been a viable plan for at least 3 years IMO

Of course had they stayed with the -8 orders (as well as the additional -9s, rather than transferring orders to the other variant) NZ would have already taken delivery of their 788s this year even after all the delays and the 763/744 could properly be phased out of the fleet.

My feeling is that the early 763s were disposed of too early without being ' directly replaced' by anything because of the transfer to the 787 order to the -9 variant. The extra 763s that already left the fleet really would have been useful - even without the 332 extra range/payload. The 763 is a go-to aircraft for so many existing missions, and further to that a larger fleet might have justified a refit to a better spec business class.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 146, posted (2 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10406 times:

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 144):
Or are you saying they didn't use all available seats on the AKL-LAX sector?

To me it seems likely that QF purchased the A332 with the AKL-LAX route in mind and set the seating capacity so that at about 80% occupancy they had capability of 4 to 5t of freight. My impression is that QF take the freight business seriously.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 147, posted (2 years 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10186 times:

Does anyone know why a Blue Air Boeing 737-300 was in Auckland today? I was watching this video on One News and the registration (YR-BAC) is clearly visible at 00:45. I'm assuming this footage is from today, not just file footage.
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/auck...-disrupts-air-travel-video-4984018

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 99):
Just for the hell of it%u2026 if I were the new NZ CEO I'd try and get board approval to%u2026

Normally I wouldn't participate since my posts aren't particularly juicy, but I can't resist playing armchair CEO:

1) Order some 787-8s (because the 787-9 is a bit big for starting new routes) and maybe a few 77Ls.
2) Convert the 77Ws to a 3-3-3 configuration.
3) Cancel the recent livery change and consult with ANZES on ways to overcome the Pacific Wave's problems so that it can be re-introduced in some form or other.
4) Re-introduce business class in the Tasman Airbus A320s, even if its only 4 seats or so per aircraft.
5) Fix the Premium Economy seating in the 77Ws and then install 77W seating (maybe with slightly wider Economy seats) on other long haul aircraft.
6) Progressively open up the following routes:
AKL-GRU. Will have to be timed to allow good connections to asia flights.
AKL-JNB. Possibly via PER if that helps raise the loadfactor and/or yeilds.
AKL-BNE/PER-BLR or BOM
AKL-SIN (if JQ drop the route)
AKL-ICN. With luck Asiana might buy a number of seats on each flight in the same way JAL used to with Tokyo flights.
AKL-BNE-MNL
AKL-BNE-BKK
AKL-HBA
LAX-MAN
LAX-NCE. (Seasonally) While it might be a little bit of a long-shot, someone suggested this route many NZ aviation threats ago and I think they might have a point. Currently the only flights between the Cote 'd Azure and North America are some seasonal frequencies between Nice and New York JFK with Delta. Under-serving the route IMO.
7) Make Airpoints worthwhile for frequent flyers.
8) Pressure Auckland Airport to replace the domestic terminal.
9) Begin codesharing with Virgin America.
10) Have the last 737 to be retired painted in a retro livery and donate it to MOTAT once its time is up.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 120):
I just visited Air New Zealand's Australia Facebook page and everything appears to be already in black. Am I the only one who feels the page looks awfully depressing? I have to say using the colour black will be a big mistake.

The Air New Zealand - Australia page looks downright horrible. Are they trying to rub in the fact that we won the RWC to the Australians? Interestingly though, their print ads in the newspapers (which also use the black scheme) look quite good.

Quoting gasman (Reply 139):
I have recently been cheating on my national airline.

  



[Edited 2012-07-24 02:19:38]


Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5297 posts, RR: 11
Reply 148, posted (2 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10139 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 147):
Does anyone know why a Blue Air Boeing 737-300 was in Auckland today?

Ex ZK-SLA and VH-CZA I was told it was all white. Not sure if its returning to NZ for good or not.


User currently offlinehaggis73 From New Zealand, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 149, posted (2 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10129 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 147):
Does anyone know why a Blue Air Boeing 737-300 was in Auckland today?

Arrived in the early hours of Saturday morning via DPS & BNE. Met by Airwork engineers on arrival, so possibly one of there new acquisitions.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 150, posted (2 years 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 148):
Ex ZK-SLA and VH-CZA I was told it was all white. Not sure if its returning to NZ for good or not.
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 148):
Arrived in the early hours of Saturday morning via DPS & BNE. Met by Airwork engineers on arrival, so possibly one of there new acquisitions.

Interesting. Thanks for the quick response. Sounds like we might be seeing more of this bird - always good to have another aircraft in the national fleet.  



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 151, posted (2 years 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 9913 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 147):
1) Order some 787-8s (because the 787-9 is a bit big for starting new routes) and maybe a few 77Ls.

The 788 with 242-seats has a significantly less range than a 789 with 250-seats. I believe this is part of the reason for the switch from the 788 to the 789.
On the question of the 77L. Take a 16hr city pair, say ORD-AKL . Do you want a 77L that can carry ~45t or will a 789 be sufficient with a 32t payload. I would suspect that the latter would be the more prudent fit for a small carrier like NZ.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7166 posts, RR: 13
Reply 152, posted (2 years 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9937 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 151):
The 788 with 242-seats has a significantly less range than a 789 with 250-seats

Yes, it does, but the 788 is the '767' replacement suitable for the shorter flights flown by the 763 in NZ operation. There is that need to fly an aircraft for those missions, but for which the 789 is too large and the range advantage is wasted on.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4869 posts, RR: 5
Reply 153, posted (2 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 152):
Yes, it does, but the 788 is the '767' replacement suitable for the shorter flights flown by the 763 in NZ operation. There is that need to fly an aircraft for those missions, but for which the 789 is too large and the range advantage is wasted on

You are probably right but the advantage may not be as great as you think. Take a 12hr city pair, a 767-300ER w/winglets has a max payload of ~28t. It will burn 58.871t of fuel. The 788 same city pair, same payload will burn 52.556t of fuel. The 789 same conditions will burn 56.586t. As the 787 engines get updated with PIP's these burns will reduce.
To the extent that fuel burn is a consideration, both 787 versions have an advantage over the 767-300ER. This continues all the way down to just under 1000nm sector when the 767 has the advantage. But NZ has no sectors that short on which they fly a 767's.
Does this ~7.5% fuel advantage for the 788 make it worth while having in the fleet, I don't know. Based on 4500hrs / year with fuel at about $US900 a M/t the savings are about $1.35m per aircraft / year. If it requires an extra aircraft to maintain fleet flexibility, perhaps not.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 154, posted (2 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9806 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 153):
Does this ~7.5% fuel advantage for the 788 make it worth while having in the fleet, I don't know. Based on 4500hrs / year with fuel at about $US900 a M/t the savings are about $1.35m per aircraft / year. If it requires an extra aircraft to maintain fleet flexibility, perhaps not.

Though further on down the track, the commonality between the 788 and 789 would surely have some advantage in terms of maintenance, surely? In similar fashion to the GE CF6s that could work on both the 763 and 744? There must be a point somewhere down the line where this crossover takes place. I guess the 763 is fine for the Tasman flights, which are only just over 1000nm and the advantages of a 787 there don't seem as great - a case to keep the 763s operating for a bit longer then, I suppose? I was disappointed when I saw the other 763s leave the fleet back in 05/06 or whenever. ZK-NCN has been through a lot of hands since leaving NZ..



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7087 posts, RR: 12
Reply 155, posted (2 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9262 times:

Seen on Yahoo that NZ are reducing domestic fares again and adding extra capacity over the comming year. Probably a good thing from a consumer's perspective.

Also now you are allowed to share your airpoints with friends and family making it more flexible

[Edited 2012-07-26 16:48:42]

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 156, posted (2 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9254 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 155):
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...0886/Air-New-Zealand-slashes-fares

Could this be a case of NZ wanting to reduce fares itself or could there be something else about to happen and NZ is reducing fares now to buffer itself........JQ expanding?


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 157, posted (2 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9173 times:

Air NZ will seat up to 300 in first 789s

Well, I presume they can only do this by going 9-abreast. Buying new planes to fly Asian leisure routes sounds like a huge waste of the new plane's capability. They'd better buy more soon if they wish to grow at all within the next 10 years.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 158, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9137 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 157):
Buying new planes to fly Asian leisure routes sounds like a huge waste of the new plane's capability

I'm sure they hadn't thought of that. Maybe you should e-mail them to let them know how wrong they are to do this.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 159, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9111 times:

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 158):

Can't wait to see them change their minds after reading/throwing such an email away. Just like how their HVCs were treated.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1661 posts, RR: 1
Reply 160, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 9095 times:

''about 300 seats, representing a relatively large proportion of economy passengers''

gosh really they already came down from 34 inch on the 744 to 32 on the 777's what they going down to now 30 or below ??!

'' will be deployed on Asian routes which are primarily leisure travel markets''

So Japan, and mainland China then! kinda gathered when the stuck the 763 on the PVG route ,but if PVG is meant to be a core market for them why are they having problems filling the front of the plane then? because Shanghai is got to be a heck of lot more up the front people?

will this include flying the 787 to HKG as this is in the 'Asia' Area!



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!