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Greek Govt Finally Sells Former OA A340s  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18754 times:

Well looks like the Greek government managed to find homes for the 4 former Olympic Airways A340's which belonged to them following the privatization of the airline in 2009.

Miami based Apollo Aviation Group was the winning bidder at $40.4mil and confirmed by the new finance minister.

The money gained from the sale will be used to pay down public debt.

Story:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/greece...ll-four-airbus-jets-161804674.html


I wonder if Apollo will try to remarket these aircraft, or if they will be parted out due to very poor state of the 2nd hand market in A340s.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18590 times:

Such a shame,
They should have sold them earlier, how long have they been sitting idle?


User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2921 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18533 times:

From the previous posts on these aircraft, I'd be surprised if they ever carry passengers again.


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18436 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Miami based Apollo Aviation Group was the winning bidder at $40.4mil and confirmed by the new finance minister.
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I wonder if Apollo will try to remarket these aircraft, or if they will be parted out due to very poor state of the 2nd hand market in A340s.

Will they have an American registration, and will they be the first 340s to carry an N number?

I hope someone buys them   The 340 is my favorite bird.


Maybe US would take them  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11645 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18363 times:

$10 million a piece sounds like scrap/parts value. Shame to see them broken up if this is correct.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18290 times:

Apollo primarily scraps aircraft to sell the parts. I doubt they are interested in trying to lease them out, especially since the maintenance paperwork for these planes are supposedly incomplete.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30900 posts, RR: 87
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18273 times:
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Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
$10 million a piece sounds like scrap/parts value. Shame to see them broken up if this is correct.

$10 million is almost one-third of what a 1999 HGW model should be worth, so it does sound like these planes could require significant refurbishment to bring them back to airworthiness and they were therefore purchased for parts.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18132 times:

The aircraft have been derelict for so long they are only fit for scrap now.

User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6897 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18032 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 5):
Apollo primarily scraps aircraft to sell the parts. I doubt they are interested in trying to lease them out, especially since the maintenance paperwork for these planes are supposedly incomplete.

If the paperwork is incomplete the planes cannot fly again, period. And if they have sat idle since 2009 without proper preservation they are likely unairworthy without major maintenance as well



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinelh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2360 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17988 times:
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I don't get it: Why didn't anyone within the greek government or anyone responsible for the planes manage to sell them or at least preserve them in a good state? How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?


Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently onlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6897 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17922 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?

It's still a drop in the bucket in terms of the overall Greek debt, and doesn't begin to address the real problem, which is that the government is spending a lot more than they take in. If they could have sold the planes for enough to wipe out the debt completely it would only postpone the problem, not solve it. But as to why, I suspect that whoever was put in charge of these planes was a bureaucrat with no aviation knowledge, and didn't have a clue (or care) what was necessary to preserve planes in flyable condition. Of course it Olympic had lost or misplaced the necessary paperwork already the whole question is moot-the damage was already done.

[Edited 2012-07-08 13:01:57]


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17902 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
I don't get it: Why didn't anyone within the greek government or anyone responsible for the planes manage to sell them or at least preserve them in a good state? How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?

They have been trying to sell them for 3 years, the Greek government can't force anyone to take them. I have a feeling that when Olympic Airlines was shutting down no one was expecting the planes to sit around for this long so proper preparations for long term storage were not made.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 17735 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
I don't get it: Why didn't anyone within the greek government or anyone responsible for the planes manage to sell them or at least preserve them in a good state? How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?

Well the remarketing effort was probably not strong enough. If these were Lufthansa aircraft they would have been sold years ago.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 17566 times:

OA themselves were trying to remarket the aircraft in their later years. For a while even OA had two grounded awaiting sale with only two remaining in service. I know THY looked at leasing two of them at the time, but the difficulty working through the required Greek bureaucracy was more than TK was willing to deal with when you had commercial leasing firms more easy to deal with.

Regarding Apollo they do sometimes remarket aircraft - they have 2 Air India A310s and an Air France and Corsair 744s available on the market now, but yes I do have doubts about the future of trying to get these aircraft in hands of other airlines considering the number of A340s sitting around these days.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17199 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
$10 million a piece sounds like scrap/parts value. Shame to see them broken up if this is correct.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
$10 million is almost one-third of what a 1999 HGW model should be worth
Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
I don't get it: Why didn't anyone within the greek government or anyone responsible for the planes manage to sell them or at least preserve them in a good state? How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?

I was shocked by that price. I guess these are the types of decisions that explain why the Greek government is broke.


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 16525 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 14):

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
$10 million a piece sounds like scrap/parts value. Shame to see them broken up if this is correct.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
$10 million is almost one-third of what a 1999 HGW model should be worth
Quoting lh526 (Reply 9):
I don't get it: Why didn't anyone within the greek government or anyone responsible for the planes manage to sell them or at least preserve them in a good state? How many millions of dollars that could help towards greeks depth problem are now wasted due to the negligence of some greek official?

I was shocked by that price. I guess these are the types of decisions that explain why the Greek government is broke.

The government probably did not have the money to keep the aircraft in good working condition. I am surprised at the amount of money they did get for them. Are they going to be flown again or are they just going out to be scrapped



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User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8338 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16289 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Regarding Apollo they do sometimes remarket aircraft - they have 2 Air India A310s and an Air France and Corsair 744s available on the market now, but yes I do have doubts about the future of trying to get these aircraft in hands of other airlines considering the number of A340s sitting around these days.

There are airlines needing used 340 like that airline in Argentina. AR should buy every A340 in sight it can get a hold of.


User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1012 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16239 times:

Or maybe these 4 A343's could be good initial candidates for the A340 Cargo conversion program recently proposed. Since that process often requires such extensive work you could fit in a D check, do the conversion and presto, efficient long haul lift at a reasonable price.

User currently onlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 16147 times:

Will they be scrapped where they are, if that is their end?

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User currently offlineWouterB From Netherlands, joined Oct 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 15693 times:

About SX-DFA Airfleets.net states: "Lsd From Apollo Aviation as N235KS" (although it's not really clear when this was updated).

Is this correct? Did SX-DFA already belong to Apollo? I can't really find any more information about that.


User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3511 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14550 times:

It's too bad about these planes. They were my favourite plane at YYZ when they used to do the ATH-YUL-YYZ-YUL-ATH. Olympic 423/424. Parts wise, there are many planes that can use A340 parts (even non-A340s). I think 10 million is a good price for an older high time/non-airworthy 340-300.


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User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14422 times:

Are these the same A340s that got Hellenic Imperial colours/titles? If so, one of them is now in Singapore.

User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14174 times:

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 21):
Are these the same A340s that got Hellenic Imperial colours/titles? If so, one of them is now in Singapore.

No, Hellenic Imperial is taking ex Gulf Air A340s.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13008 posts, RR: 100
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 13848 times:
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Quoting Spacepope (Reply 2):

From the previous posts on these aircraft, I'd be surprised if they ever carry passengers again.

I would be shocked if they ever fly more than the ferry flight to the scrapper.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 4):
$10 million a piece sounds like scrap/parts value.

Ghad... the engines + nacelles are worth that! Then again, what is the status of their pedigree.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4906 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11840 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 8):
And if they have sat idle since 2009 without proper preservation they are likely unairworthy without major maintenance as well
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
I would be shocked if they ever fly more than the ferry flight to the scrapper.

I'll be shocked if these birds return to the skies...

Just have a look as to what can happen when an aircraft is returned to the air after being in long term storage "Russian style"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1-Z2dO14ApE

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
25 Burkhard : Fotr sure they will be used as parts. Only question for me is, if they, with missing papaerwork, can fly out to Miami at all, or if they will be taken
26 TomFoolery : I think the main issue is the missing records. Without documented evidence that proper maintenance has been carried out with approved materials and IA
27 XT6Wagon : Even if they were perfect mechanical and paperwork when parked. I can't imagine that the money was spent to properly mothball these frames and the en
28 Thomas_Jaeger : Which one is currently in Singapore? From what I know the two A340-300s that were meant to go to Hellenic Imperial have never flown there and were bo
29 jfk777 : How long have the 4 Olympic A340's been parked ? 3 years ?
30 clydenairways : There maybe a market for 2nd hand A340's, but i'm sure these particular aircraft are at the bottom of the barrell when it comes to condition. THY has
31 rleiro : It was rumored that Conviasa was interested in these A340's, but due to the lack of maintenance logbooks they declined the offer. Saludos, Roberto.
32 SEA : If they had had proper MX logbooks (or proper MX in the first place after being stored), I'm sure there would have been interest at least a few airli
33 Post contains images KC135TopBoom : More new beer cans......
34 TomFoolery : Excellent point. This same thought came to me as well. If they did condition the If they did ferry them, could this be done under an 'experimental' c
35 lewis : Because it is the normal thing for the Greek government to treat public property and the public coffers like that. I am surprised they were able to s
36 viasa : I'm quite sure, that I heard the same information about 4 months ago...
37 SEPilot : But as TomFoolery pointed out, without the maintenance records very few of the parts can ever fly again. When I read that the records were incomplete
38 Viscount724 : Almost 3 years. September 2009 I believe.
39 Aesma : When an administration is already deficient and you start firing people left and right, slashing the pay of the rest, things happen.
40 Post contains links and images OA260 : Article in the Economist about the sale . Nothing we didnt know already The parable of the four-engined planes AN OLD friend in the aviation business,
41 poLOT : An interesting article. Why would Cirrus want A340s though?
42 cedarjet : It is an unbelievable disgrace. Greece seems to be uniquely dysfunctional even by the standards of countries where people die of starvation or there'
43 lewis : The Greek paradox, Greeks who live abroad (the ones who can escape from that disaster) tend to do very well for themselves. It is the country's way o
44 richierich : Were these the only A343s that OA had in their fleet? If they had others, what happened to them? Were they leased or sold prior to the shutdown?
45 lewis : They only had those 4 aircraft.
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