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A320 NEO Production Begins  
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 515 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12626 times:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...-production-of-the-a320neo-family/

I searched the forums and didn't find anything on this, mods please feel free to delete if this has been posted already.

Airbus cuts first metal for the A320 NEO, the part being built is an engine pylon. Not to start an A vs B flamefest, but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

In any case, this is exciting news, and congrats to Airbus on this milestone.


'What's it doing now?'
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 12393 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

FWIW, the MAX will finalize in 2013. But Boeing has 2x more to do than Airbus. Boeing has to extend the landing gear for the engines, certify the AT winglet, and strengthen the wing. And probably much more.

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

2013. But Boeing is trying to "Max"imize the 737's efficiency, which is what airlines want. I don't think Airbus has modified the NEO much since they launched it 12/2010. Please correct me if im wrong.



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1466 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12008 times:

Quoting redrooster3 (Reply 1):
I don't think Airbus has modified the NEO much since they launched it 12/2010. Please correct me if im wrong.

They haven't, and they're unlikely to do so either. Airbus is very keen on avoiding any mission creep, adding complications and time needed to complete the project. They're able to get away with that, because they're very confident what the finished product will look like.

Boeing, on the other hand, are not at the same stage yet. So far they've gone for a NLG extension, a reshaped tail-cone and those silly split winglets. But they haven't even finished defining the diameter of the Leap-X fan, and they may yet find they'll need to do more to have a competitive product. I'm not sure you can call it mission creep, when the aircraft hasn't been fully defined yet, but there is a risk of it becoming a necessity in order to compete.

In so many words: If you order a Neo today, you know almost exactly what you're going to get. If you order a Max, well, you're buying a set of intentions and a set of more or less loosely defined means of getting there.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinecat3dual From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11817 times:

Will MSN 1 A320 be modified to NEO spec?

User currently offlinecanyonblue17 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10290 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 2):
. If you order a Max, well, you're buying a set of intentions and a set of more or less loosely defined means of getting there.

To be fair, a year or so ago you could have said the same thing about the NEO. That is why there are two parts to Research and Development. When Boeing cuts the first metal for the MAX, this will be a moot point.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2694 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9840 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting sturmovik (Thread starter):
but how far along is the 737MAX? When do you think we'll see a similar milestone on that program?

Straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD828p9Nt0U

mid 2013 - finalise configuration
2014 - design
2015 - production
2016 - first flight
2017 - EIS



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 738 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9202 times:

But how far along is the engine development (for either aircraft)?

User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 395 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9095 times:

How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737? The 737 is a very old aircraft design and the original 737 was meant to use Low bypass turbo jets, not requiring a tall stance like the A320 with its larger bypass turbofan engines. Will they simply move the pivot point of the landing gear further away from the center line of the aircraft to lengthen the landing gear? I've heard the diameter of the engines on the MAX will be smaller than those on the NEO. Will this have a large impact on fuel savings of the aircraft? Sorry for the questions, just want to clear some things up.

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8912 times:

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 6):

But how far along is the engine development (for either aircraft)?

Since the metal being cut is for an engine pylon, I'd venture that Airbus and PW have a very clear idea of the production spec engine. I'll leave the details to someone more knowledgeable, like lightsaber perhaps. (Unrelated : we need the ability to tag members in posts so they can be dragged into discussions they'd rather avoid   )

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
I've heard the diameter of the engines on the MAX will be smaller than those on the NEO. Will this have a large impact on fuel savings of the aircraft?

The diameter, 69.4 inches at last update, is indeed smaller than that on the GTF. CFM (and Boeing) claim that this will not impact fuel burn significantly, and PW and Airbus claim otherwise. That debate will go on for a while, and flare up again over the next few years as more sales battles happen. We'll know for sure only when an airline has both types in service.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8841 times:

Why compare GTF size to MAX engine size? The CFM engine on the A320NEO is also larger by a fair number of inches.

NS


User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8111 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 3):
Will MSN 1 A320 be modified to NEO spec?

No. This article says that MSN1 will be retired and replaced:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ests-a320neo-assembly-line-373960/


...while some of the A320neo components have already flown on the A380:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...tailed-design-phase-begins-373958/


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):

How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737? The 737 is a very old aircraft design and the original 737 was meant to use Low bypass turbo jets, not requiring a tall stance like the A320 with its larger bypass turbofan engines. Will they simply move the pivot point of the landing gear further away from the center line of the aircraft to lengthen the landing gear?

Some of Boeing's 737 MAX media clips and images show a small "blister" on the nose's underside. Like the A330F.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3845 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

The FG article states that the engine pylons are the first ones to undergo the manufacturing stages, rather that the usual wing box.

I was unaware the wingbox was to be modified on the NEO as well. The only wing modification I was aware of were the blended winglets and I thought those were the same as the ones developed for the OEO.
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box? I suppose they're light since they started with the pylons, but could that hint at further MTOW increases down the road? Or is it just a Weight Watchers once over?



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
I was unaware the wingbox was to be modified on the NEO as well.

I think the article simply means that the centre wing box is usually considered the first "metal cut" component, but not on the Neo - precisely because the wing box won't undergo any substantial modification.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Quoting RubberJungle (Reply 10):
No. This article says that MSN1 will be retired and replaced:

Yes, the Sharklets one that was delivered recently will also be the first NEO, and the testbed.

NS


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
How exactly is Boeing planning on extending the landing gear of the 737?

They have put an external blister on the nose gear, like Airbus did withe the A332F.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box?

I suspect they have had to strengthen the wing spar, as I think the new engine will be heavier than current installations. This is basically the same reason why they have not put the GEnx or similar on the A330, it is the additional mass of the engine would require some redesign of the wing spar.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 12):
What kind of modifications would they bring to the wing box? I suppose they're light since they started with the pylons, but could that hint at further MTOW increases down the road? Or is it just a Weight Watchers once over?

The engine is heavier. Sharklets add wieght, as does the structural reinforcement for the additional loads they cause. Then there is the MTOW the NEO has over the current models.


User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 14):
Yes, the Sharklets one that was delivered recently will also be the first NEO, and the testbed.

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression the new Sharklets airplane would be used for testing only Sharklets before being delivered to an airline. Just curious.



'What's it doing now?'
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