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If DL Sells Comair, Who Should Buy?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6651 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Comair is currently on life support due to the shrinking of the CVG hub. So, if DL decides on selling Comair, who should buy them?

Pinnacle is not in any financial shape to buy Comair. A SkyWest buyout of Comair might face some scrutiny, considering they bought both ASA and ExpressJet and merged them into one super-regional carrier ExpressJet.

So, perhaps the best buyer for Comair might by Trans States Holdings, who could perhaps merge Comair into Compass. Another possibility would be Republic Airways Holdings, who could merge Comair into Chautauqua.

What does anyone here think?


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17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Why not just let them fade away. The market for regional carriers is getting smaller and smaller. Myself I think Comairs day in the sun is coming to an end.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2707 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, perhaps the best buyer for Comair might by Trans States Holdings, who could perhaps merge Comair into Compass. Another possibility would be Republic Airways Holdings, who could merge Comair into Chautauqua.

If AX buys OH I'm officially moving to Canada!   

In all seriousness though, given my experiences on G7, if they let OH keep it's mojo and run a good operation that may not be all bad. I was prepared for the worst when I first flew G7 given AX's reputation, but have found their planes to be clean and nice and the flight crews to be very nice and efficient.


User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Nobody... with oil prices above $70 per barrel, the regional airline concept is broken. If airlines want to keep flying regional jets, they should do it themselves. Not rely on regional airlines that don't know (from what we have seen) how to sign capacity purchase agreements that account for fluctuation in oil prices...

User currently offlinetwinotter From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, if DL decides on selling Comair . . .

If they "decide"? Hasn't Delta been trying frantically to sell Comair for years with no success?


User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 3):
If airlines want to keep flying regional jets, they should do it themselves. Not rely on regional airlines that don't know (from what we have seen) how to sign capacity purchase agreements that account for fluctuation in oil prices...

You do realize that with a CPA, fuel costs are passed through to the major, right?



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):

What would be the point of anyone buying Comair at this point? DL did exactly what they intended to do once they couldn't find a buyer. They reduced(is reducing) their 50 seat fleet to almost nothing leaving them with CR7s and CR9s that they (DL) can do exactly what they want with. They took 12 CR7s from them some years back and reallocated them to SkyWest, Inc. SkyWest took for and ASA got 8. The frames have since been transferred to G7 after they underbid EV/OO for the LGA flying.

There is nothing left but an operating certificate and a shaky air service agreement with DL. At least with TSA buying CP and PNCL buying Mesaba there was meat to the deal.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2482 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
You do realize that with a CPA, fuel costs are passed through to the major, right?

Depends on how you signt the CPA... Delta does some fuel cost pass throughs, but they put pressure on labor, maintenance or even leases (some owned by majors and subleased others by regionals). It is just a broken model. The regional jets should be flown by the majors through wholly owned subsidiaries.


User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 7):
Depends on how you signt the CPA... Delta does some fuel cost pass throughs, but they put pressure on labor, maintenance or even leases (some owned by majors and subleased others by regionals). It is just a broken model. The regional jets should be flown by the majors through wholly owned subsidiaries.

Why? A handful of regional carriers were at one time wholly owned subsidiaries before being separated.



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 7):
Depends on how you signt the CPA... Delta does some fuel cost pass throughs, but they put pressure on labor, maintenance or even leases (some owned by majors and subleased others by regionals). It is just a broken model. The regional jets should be flown by the majors through wholly owned subsidiaries.

So you're saying that things could be done cheaper by INCREASING costs? Yeah, that'll work.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1642 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 8):
Quoting rojo (Reply 7):
Depends on how you signt the CPA... Delta does some fuel cost pass throughs, but they put pressure on labor, maintenance or even leases (some owned by majors and subleased others by regionals). It is just a broken model. The regional jets should be flown by the majors through wholly owned subsidiaries.

Why? A handful of regional carriers were at one time wholly owned subsidiaries before being separated.

  

While I have always been a fan of the wholly-owned model, I think it's high time we come to the realization that that model has just proven unsustainable in today's environment. Perhaps that will swing back again in the future, but for now, it's divested regional flying for the most part.


User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Let Pinnacle Corp buy them, merge them with 9E, and have the most expensive, senior regional pilot group in the industry, then decide in 2 years to reallocate all the aircraft to someone else, and finally put 9E out of its misery. I am so tired of the weekly emails from the union about how hard they are working to save our way of a terrible regional airline pilot life. Here's an idea, start spending that money on finding a way to get us all a job at a major and not prolonging this downward spiral of a career at the regional level.

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 7):
Depends on how you signt the CPA... Delta does some fuel cost pass throughs, but they put pressure on labor, maintenance or even leases (some owned by majors and subleased others by regionals). It is just a broken model. The regional jets should be flown by the majors through wholly owned subsidiaries.

Running a wholly owned subsidiary is far more expensive for mainline carriers than it is to contract out to an independent regional carrier. Most of the independent regionals either have multiple contracts to cover their operating costs or other sources of revenue (groundhandling contracts, etc).

The biggest issue with the regional airline industry is that the aircraft they use are no longer economically viable, at least not the smaller aircraft. The 19 and 30-seat turboprops that everybody abandoned in the '90s and '00s would be much more profitable in today's economy than the 50-seat regional jets. The regional jet boom is coming back to bite the industry in the ass.

The bigger regionals are surviving because they have multiple contracts to cover their operating costs, meaning they can bid for what the mainline carriers are willing to pay. The smaller regionals are struggling because with fewer contracts, their bid prices are higher and the majors aren't willing to pay that much.

It's a Catch-22.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):

no one wants OH, AMR is having the same problem with MQ.

Quoting twinotter (Reply 4):

they have been for sale for ever.

1 Billion dollars I believe it was. what a friggin waste.



yep.
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5130 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

I think DL should move some of the Comair flying to other cities. Since DL has a decent sized operation in SEA, maybe move some of the operation to SEA? Otherwise, Skywest seems to be the best fit. I prefer to see Comair remain solo, because they are a good airline.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1160 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2146 times:
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Quoting JBo (Reply 12):
The biggest issue with the regional airline industry is that the aircraft they use are no longer economically viable, at least not the smaller aircraft. The 19 and 30-seat turboprops that everybody abandoned in the '90s and '00s would be much more profitable in today's economy than the 50-seat regional jets. The regional jet boom is coming back to bite the industry in the ass.

   The smaller turboprops are a real necessity in the regional airline business. There are small cities that need air service and cannot support a 50 passenger RJ. Even larger turboprops could be used to replace larger RJs as they are more economical to fly and operate while not increasing flight time significantly. The only thing I do not like about turboprops is they can have a nosier passenger cabin and are unable to use bleed air for wing leading edge ice removal, thus using rubber boots.   



Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
User currently offlineKDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Comair is currently on life support due to the shrinking of the CVG hub. So, if DL decides on selling Comair, who should buy them?

Pinnacle is not in any financial shape to buy Comair. A SkyWest buyout of Comair might face some scrutiny, considering they bought both ASA and ExpressJet and merged them into one super-regional carrier ExpressJet.

So, perhaps the best buyer for Comair might by Trans States Holdings, who could perhaps merge Comair into Compass. Another possibility would be Republic Airways Holdings, who could merge Comair into Chautauqua.

What does anyone here think?

Only an idiot would buy it in it's present form. Now if someone wanted it for the certificate and to merge into another operation as you suggest, that might be worthwhile, but Comair isnt really worth all that much.

They failed to follow the trend to larger RJ or E series aircraft and are paying the price for that. And really, they are overkil in a bloated part of the industry.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1952 times:

Please continue the discussion in the following thread:

Comair (DL Connection): Endangered Species? (by LAXintl Jun 21 2012 in Civil Aviation)


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