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CSeries For AirAsia?  
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5576 times:

Bombardier swoops on AirAsia at Silverstone summit.
Reuters. SILVERSTONE, England | Mon Jul 9, 2012 5:12am EDT

How high (or low) are the chances of the all-Airbus AirAsia picking up some CSeries?
Is Bombardier pitching a long shot?
How does the CS300 at 160 seats compare with the 180 seater A320 in seat width and pitch?
I travelled on AirAsia quite a lot and would certainly welcome any such addition to those all too familiar Airbuses.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...dier-airasia-idUSLNE86800I20120709


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23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5224 times:
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This was noted in the Bombardier C-series thread:

Bombardier CSeries Update (by CRJ900X Jun 19 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting neutrino (Thread starter):
How does the CS300 at 160 seats compare with the 180 seater A320 in seat width and pitch?

Looking at 28" pitch in the C-series. What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

But, the comfort level might not be much different with new slimline seats. I think this is an order for Airbus to loose. I can hope for Bombardier, but I put the chances as low.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5164 times:

Hi!

Looking at the Bombardier site they do make the C Series look extremely attractive. But personally I don't think it will happen unless Bombardier offer them a really good deal. I don't know much about it but don't Low Cost airlines rely heavily on the savings by only having one aircraft type?

And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it! It's like the cabin is lopsided or something!

http://media.bombardiercms.com/cseries/medias/gallery/cseriesInterior/low/11.jpg

Many thanks.

P.


User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
This was noted in the Bombardier C-series thread:

Thanks. I did not see it. Perhaps its because its way past 1am in my timezone. Better to have that cuppa coffee the next time I burn midnight oil.  
Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it! It's like the cabin is lopsided or something!

Thanks for the nice pic, but I would love the 2-seater side as it would mean 1 less person to say "excuse me" to me as I am always on the aisle seat. How I miss the good old DC-9 which I used to ride on eons ago.



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User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2174 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5001 times:
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Why wouldn't AirAsia be more interested in a 150-seat version? If Indonesia have the rules regarding one FA per 50 seats, they will only need 3 FAs instead of 4 for 160 seats.

Or perhaps BBD is looking into a two or three-frame stretch of the CS300...?



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User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5416 posts, RR: 30
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 4):


The way i read it could be interpreted two ways; either they plan on cramming 160 into the 300 or maybe offering a CS500. They weren't specific, in my mind, but I think the 500 is inevitable.



What the...?
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

All A320s on AirAsia are 180 seaters; 30 rows x 6 seats. Ditto for TigerAir, JetStar and CebuPacific; all of which I travelled on frequently. I believe but not definately sure that the numbers on A319s on Tiger and Cebu are 144 and 150 respectively.
Don't know about the pitch though.



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User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4544 times:
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Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
And on a side note that 3-2 5 abreast seating is doing my head it!

There were two thousand Douglas narrowbodies built in that configuration.   

Quoting neutrino (Reply 6):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
What is with the 180 in the A320? I thought AirAsia had 162 seats in their A320s with 29.5" pitch (more at exit rows) or is Seatguru wrong?

All A320s on AirAsia are 180 seaters

Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4396 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Sure. Here you go:-
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_Asia/Air_Asia_Airbus_320.php

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/AirAsia/seatplans/A320-10/

http://www.airasia.com/my/en/flightinfo/pickaseat.page

http://www5.airasia.com/site/en/pres...e41b5b3-c0a8c85d-177e6b40-c956ca0b

edit to add this comment: Seatguru's page is a bit strange. On the layout plan, it clearly shows 180 seats; six each on rows 1 to 31 minus no. 13. But at the top paragraph's table, it shows 162 with 30 "hot seats" and 132 economy. I have used AirAsia for dozens of trips but at no time have I ever encountered the "hot seats" with the stated 21" width.

[Edited 2012-07-10 08:18:53]


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User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 829 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Quoting neutrino (Reply 8):
I have used AirAsia for dozens of trips but at no time have I ever encountered the "hot seats" with the stated 21" width.

I think that'd be the emergency exit roles, I opt for row14 everytime I fly with them (about 10 times a year).

YLWbased



Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4251 times:

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 9):

But the emer. seats only have greater pitch, not width. How on earth or heaven or hell for that matter could they fit 21" width seats on Y and AirAsia A320 is all-economy.



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User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 829 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Quoting neutrino (Reply 10):
But the emer. seats only have greater pitch, not width. How on earth or heaven or hell for that matter could they fit 21" width seats on Y and AirAsia A320 is all-economy.

Woops, I mis-read it pitch. Yes, every seat have the same width on Air Asia flights, my bad.

YLWbased



Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4166 times:

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 11):
Woops, I mis-read.....my bad.

Don't everyone of us do? Some more some less.  



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User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3813 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 2):
unless Bombardier offer them a really good deal

For an Airbus stronghold like this, a huge potential entrance into a booming market and to get the program traction, I think BBD would be prepared to drop their pants and wait for the O'Leary treatment...! I really do think the CS will score big with a couple of LCC's, Air Asia may not have been an obvious one with the mammoth neo order, but others mentioned in this thread like Cebu Pacific & Tiger could be good candidates. It wont be a 737/A32S, but I think the CS will do well and there are several good "blue chip" potential clients out there Im sure BBD are courting. LATAM is one (ex F100 & A318 operator), SN Brussels (ARJ), QF Regional. I honestly think it would be a good a/c for BA ex LGW and to expand LCY too.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
There were two thousand Douglas narrowbodies built in that configuration

And the BAe 146 / ARJ (some of them anyway).



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User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3776 times:
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Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 13):
For an Airbus stronghold like this, a huge potential entrance into a booming market and to get the program traction, I think BBD would be prepared to drop their pants and wait for the O'Leary treatment...!

But the C-Series was on offer when Air Asia ordered 200 neos, wasn't it? Other LCCs are ordering neos and MAXes by the score and yet the C-Series still fails to gain significant traction in the market.

I'm sure it will be a fine plane, but the lack of significant sales must be starting to cause sleepless nights in Canada. If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?



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User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3718 times:
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Quoting neutrino (Reply 8):
Seatguru's page is a bit strange. On the layout plan, it clearly shows 180 seats; six each on rows 1 to 31 minus no. 13. But at the top paragraph's table, it shows 162 with 30 "hot seats" and 132 economy.

That is what confused me. Thank you for the other links. Normally I can be lazy with SeatGuru and just read the numbers at the top...

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?

It is distressing, but the economics are there. If AirAsia does, as rumors say (but I doubt) order 50 C-series, it would be a HUGE boost for the program.

This is just not the time for *any* orders. So to secure the Air Baltic order is good news. That is 15 more C-series sales than I expected this year.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3669 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
Do you have a link? I'm willing to accept that, but Seatguru isn't usually missing configurations.

Quite contrary, SeatGuru is missing a lot of configurations from the Indian carriers.



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User currently offlinemptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

Here is a link from FlightGlobal confirming that AirAsia is in preliminary talks to acquire 100 CS300, with 160 seat layout. Seems like TF is impressed, but being cautious at the same time......

Read more here from FlightGlobal


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
So to secure the Air Baltic order is good news. That is 15 more C-series sales than I expected this year.

Just to clarify, it is an LOI. Considering Air Baltic's recent financial issues (the government had to step in and bail them out last fall) I think that financing potentially might be a stumbling point in closing this deal.

Quoting mptpa (Reply 17):
with 160 seat layout.

I think that some rows would have to be less than 28" pitch while the exit rows will obviously have to be more. As it is, 160 seats is 3 rows more than the C300's high density layout @ 30" pitch. Will be an interesting configuration.



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User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
If they can't generate sales when Airbus and Boeing are selling A320s and 737s by the thousands, when will it sell?

When it flies and does what BBD promises and the inevitable teething troubles are resolved.

The A320 & 737 is such a known quantity and the airlines dont have alternates. The neo and MAX is only going to be better, even if it does not meet spec and again the airlines dont really have any real alternates (yes, I include MS21 & C919). However, not everyone will want to operate 180 seaters and there is less reason to get the -7 or A319 with an on spec CS300. Most of the current orders and deliveries are for carriers who have fleet commonality with bigger siblings.

IF Air Asia goes ahead, that will be a huge vote of confidence and will encourage others to sign up too. I am not surprised to see interest in a large order from an LCC, but I am surprised it is Air Asia.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
But the C-Series was on offer when Air Asia ordered 200 neos, wasn't it?

I guess they have to get the financing in order for one order at a time. The Airbus one is clearly of greater importance and priority.



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User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting mptpa (Reply 17):
Here is a link from FlightGlobal confirming that AirAsia is in preliminary talks to acquire 100 CS300, with 160 seat layout. Seems like TF is impressed, but being cautious at the same time......


Oh, that's grrrreat. I am crossing my fingers and my toes that something will come from this. 100 or 50 or even 20 CS300 would be cool. For single aisle aircraft, I am sort of getting jaded on the A320s of AirAsia, JetStar,CebuPacific & Tiger for my regionals. The Cseries will certainly break all that monotony. Ah, the good old days when I was crisscrossing the Indonesian archipelago and the East Malaysian states of Sabah & Sarawak on the 727s, 737 jurasics & classics, DC9s, Fokkers (F27, 28, 50 & 100), DHC-6s, Casa C-212s & CN-235s, Short 330, and yes, the Namc YS-11 in the Philippines. From such a huge spread of classics to now mainly A320s with a sprinkling of 737s...sigh.



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User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1986 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

This has to be for a CS500 if it's 160 seats. I don't know how Air Asia could have dramatically lower comfort on a CS300 vs. their A320. I could see the CS300 high density layout (145 pax). But 160?

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5416 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Quoting neutrino (Reply 20):

You are a true enthusiast in the best senses of the word.



What the...?
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 606 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2267 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 22):


:D Tinkering with the avionics in the Douglas A-4 Skyhawk for the majority of a decade was my former occupation. Though in a different profession for a long time now, aerospace have always been in my blood. For airliners I prefer Boeings historically but wouldn't go out of my way to get on one as price and timing always take precedence in my choice of flight.  

Back to the topic; go, Bombardier, go go go!



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