An225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 165 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3322 times:
Hello all,
I have noticed that John Travolta's 707-100 flew from LAX to SYD in 2011. Can this aircraft do the flight non-stop, or did it made at least one stop on the way?
If yes, where did it stop? Hawii? looks like HNL could be a logical option
Does it has an increased range compared to an airframe configured to airline use?
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5216 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3195 times:
Quoting An225 (Thread starter): Can this aircraft do the flight non-stop, or did it made at least one stop on the way?
I don't know for sure with the aircraft in VIP configuration, but I doubt it could do it non stop.
In regular service the main trans Pacific stops for the B707-138s were HNL & NAN, although there were others.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2157 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2888 times:
Looks as if this ex-Qantas bird, is a regular visitor to Australia, this 707-138B was delivered new to QF for long haul services,I know it came specially equipped, just not sure what that modification was, I'd think if this aircraft was flying rather light, it may very well have the legs to do the trip non-stop, at least eastbound, my only questions would be, he as the pilot of his own private jet, is he required to have additional relief crew, if so that may force his hand to stop enroute, but lets face it, HNL or NAN are not too bad for stopovers or PPT or RAR.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2834 times:
I have seen his plane at PHKO, Kona, HI, several times in the past few years...I parked next to it on the ramp once. PHKO is a much better place to stop that PHNL. Easy in/out and the Four Seasons is only 10 minutes away.
FYI- Concorde often would use PHKO as a stop on its 'Round the World excursion flights.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2157 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2786 times:
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 3): I have seen his plane at PHKO, Kona, HI, several times in the past few years...I parked next to it on the ramp once. PHKO is a much better place to stop that PHNL. Easy in/out and the Four Seasons is only 10 minutes away
Indeed you are correct, a very nice big runway would allow even the heaviest jets to get off the ground. I guess JL did fly 742's NRT-KOA-NRT at some point, or did that stop in HNL at least one of the ways?
Next Flights: AS PDX-SEA-KOA on DH4/738 in F, HA KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2753 times:
Seems to me Japan Airlines had daily(?) 747-400 service, now 777, but I believe they make a stop at PHNL on the way home?
Anyway, Kona is one of the last, if not THE last, airports with wide-body service and no jetway into the terminal...only stairs down to the ramp. Fun to walk straight off the plane and into the sub-tropical breeze.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2363 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 1): In regular service the main trans Pacific stops for the B707-138s were HNL & NAN, although there were others.
Did the QF 707-138s ever stop anywhere other than HNL and NAN on the route to/from SFO? I believe the 707-338C had replaced the -138B by the time they added the "Fiesta" route via Mexico and Caribbean and the YVR route via NAN and PPT. Highly unlikely the -138B would have the range for sectors like PPT-ACA or PPT-YVR.
What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.
Confuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3633 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2256 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2): I know it came specially equipped, just not sure what that modification was,
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5216 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2225 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6): Did the QF 707-138s ever stop anywhere other than HNL and NAN on the route to/from SFO?
NOU & PPG were alternates that were used occasionally, were what I had in mind.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6): Highly unlikely the -138B would have the range for sectors like PPT-ACA
I am under the impression that 138s opened the Fiesta route and that is was among the last, if not the very last, route they operated. I can't remember where that came from, will have to check it. PPT-YVR, no way.
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6): What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.
Not sure, but SYD-JKT is longer and that was definitely operated non-stop and I think SIN-SYD was too, at least southbound. Other than that some serious research would be needed.
As far as Europe goes, up to seven stops, but they were "clustered" some what, for example BAH-VIE-AMS-LHR was one routing I remember, so there were some long legs in there. Again some serious research would be needed to answer your question.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2171 times:
The B-707-120B had a max range of 4,700 nm, and the -138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF. So it should have a longer range, mayby to 5,200 nm, or more.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2010 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.
Not sure, but SYD-JKT is longer and that was definitely operated non-stop and I think SIN-SYD was too, at least southbound. Other than that some serious research would be needed.
I checked the August 1963 QF timetable on the timetableimages.com site. That was probably near the peak of QF -138B service (2 years before the first -338C was delivered). Longest nonstops then were:
You were right about the -138B being used on the Fiesta Route. Found a reference to VH-EBM, QF's last -138B (the one now owned by Travolta) operating both the proving flight and first scheduled flight on the Fiesta Route in November 1964 (SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR). PPT-ACA is 3593 nm or about 200 nm further than the longest route operated in 1963.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): The B-707-120B had a max range of 4,700 nm, and the -138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF. So it should have a longer range, mayby to 5,200 nm, or more.
Those are the usual optimistic manufacturer range numbers that don't reflect real-world conditions (cargo, winds, high temperatures/elevations etc.) QF 707-138Bs never operated any routes even close to those distances. Even your 4700 nm range quoted for the -120B was about the limit of the longest-range 707-320B/C with a typical payload.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5216 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9): 138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF.
Actually it wasn't "just for Qantas". What we now call the short body B707-120 was in fact the standard body that Boeing offered and sold to various airlines. When Boeing came out with the stretched 120, under pressure form some airlines, all airlines other than QF switched their orders to the stretched version and accepted the range reduction for the increase in capacity, QF wanted the range more than the capacity and so kept the short body, which became unique to them.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1396 times:
Quoting gemuser (Reply 11): Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF.
Actually it wasn't "just for Qantas". What we now call the short body B707-120 was in fact the standard body that Boeing offered and sold to various airlines. When Boeing came out with the stretched 120, under pressure form some airlines, all airlines other than QF switched their orders to the stretched version and accepted the range reduction for the increase in capacity, QF wanted the range more than the capacity and so kept the short body, which became unique to them.
Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.
The Dash 80 was of course shorter than the production 707-120 but it was never intended to represent the intended size of the production 707.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1361 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12): Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.
The B-707-138B had the same MTOW as the B-707-120B, 257,000 lbs, and carried the same fuel load (116,620 lbs, or 17,406 US gallons), but being a lighter and smaller airplane, it had more range, but also carried fewer pax and cargo.
As with all B-707s the -138 could also carry aux fuel tanks but I am not sure if any -120B/-138B ever did. The tanks were used occasionally during military charters for the B-707-320B/C.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5216 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1242 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12): Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.
Not to hand unfortunately, in the process of moving and will be for the next 3-4 months (looooong story!). But is has been around for ages, including on several threads on this site. Somebody on the Australian Aviation thread may have a source, I certain I've seen it discussed there.
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