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707-138 John Travolta Trip To SYD And MEL  
User currently offlineAn225 From Israel, joined May 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4651 times:

Hello all,
I have noticed that John Travolta's 707-100 flew from LAX to SYD in 2011. Can this aircraft do the flight non-stop, or did it made at least one stop on the way?

If yes, where did it stop? Hawii? looks like HNL could be a logical option
Does it has an increased range compared to an airframe configured to airline use?

An225

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting An225 (Thread starter):
Can this aircraft do the flight non-stop, or did it made at least one stop on the way?

I don't know for sure with the aircraft in VIP configuration, but I doubt it could do it non stop.
In regular service the main trans Pacific stops for the B707-138s were HNL & NAN, although there were others.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3261 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

Looks as if this ex-Qantas bird, is a regular visitor to Australia, this 707-138B was delivered new to QF for long haul services,I know it came specially equipped, just not sure what that modification was, I'd think if this aircraft was flying rather light, it may very well have the legs to do the trip non-stop, at least eastbound, my only questions would be, he as the pilot of his own private jet, is he required to have additional relief crew, if so that may force his hand to stop enroute, but lets face it, HNL or NAN are not too bad for stopovers or PPT or RAR.  


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User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

I have seen his plane at PHKO, Kona, HI, several times in the past few years...I parked next to it on the ramp once. PHKO is a much better place to stop that PHNL. Easy in/out and the Four Seasons is only 10 minutes away.

FYI- Concorde often would use PHKO as a stop on its 'Round the World excursion flights.

[Edited 2012-07-10 05:45:52]

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3261 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 3):
I have seen his plane at PHKO, Kona, HI, several times in the past few years...I parked next to it on the ramp once. PHKO is a much better place to stop that PHNL. Easy in/out and the Four Seasons is only 10 minutes away

Indeed you are correct, a very nice big runway would allow even the heaviest jets to get off the ground. I guess JL did fly 742's NRT-KOA-NRT at some point, or did that stop in HNL at least one of the ways?



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User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

Seems to me Japan Airlines had daily(?) 747-400 service, now 777, but I believe they make a stop at PHNL on the way home?

Anyway, Kona is one of the last, if not THE last, airports with wide-body service and no jetway into the terminal...only stairs down to the ramp. Fun to walk straight off the plane and into the sub-tropical breeze.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 1):
In regular service the main trans Pacific stops for the B707-138s were HNL & NAN, although there were others.

Did the QF 707-138s ever stop anywhere other than HNL and NAN on the route to/from SFO? I believe the 707-338C had replaced the -138B by the time they added the "Fiesta" route via Mexico and Caribbean and the YVR route via NAN and PPT. Highly unlikely the -138B would have the range for sectors like PPT-ACA or PPT-YVR.

What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.


User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3863 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
I know it came specially equipped, just not sure what that modification was,

Probably a massage table and a full-time masseur.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3555 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Did the QF 707-138s ever stop anywhere other than HNL and NAN on the route to/from SFO?

NOU & PPG were alternates that were used occasionally, were what I had in mind.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
Highly unlikely the -138B would have the range for sectors like PPT-ACA

I am under the impression that 138s opened the Fiesta route and that is was among the last, if not the very last, route they operated. I can't remember where that came from, will have to check it. PPT-YVR, no way.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.

Not sure, but SYD-JKT is longer and that was definitely operated non-stop and I think SIN-SYD was too, at least southbound. Other than that some serious research would be needed.
As far as Europe goes, up to seven stops, but they were "clustered" some what, for example BAH-VIE-AMS-LHR was one routing I remember, so there were some long legs in there. Again some serious research would be needed to answer your question.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

The B-707-120B had a max range of 4,700 nm, and the -138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF. So it should have a longer range, mayby to 5,200 nm, or more.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3340 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 6):
What was the longest scheduled route operated by the QF 707-138B? I can't recall many nonstops longer than HNL-NAN, and routes to Europe usually had at least 4 or 5 stops.

Not sure, but SYD-JKT is longer and that was definitely operated non-stop and I think SIN-SYD was too, at least southbound. Other than that some serious research would be needed.

I checked the August 1963 QF timetable on the timetableimages.com site. That was probably near the peak of QF -138B service (2 years before the first -338C was delivered). Longest nonstops then were:

SIN-SYD (soutbound only) 3395 nm
SYD-MNL 3371 nm
BNE-SIN 3316 nm
JFK-LHR 2999 nm (JFK still IDL then)
SYD-JKT 2971 nm
NAN-HNL 2748 nm

You were right about the -138B being used on the Fiesta Route. Found a reference to VH-EBM, QF's last -138B (the one now owned by Travolta) operating both the proving flight and first scheduled flight on the Fiesta Route in November 1964 (SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-BDA-LHR). PPT-ACA is 3593 nm or about 200 nm further than the longest route operated in 1963.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
The B-707-120B had a max range of 4,700 nm, and the -138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF. So it should have a longer range, mayby to 5,200 nm, or more.

Those are the usual optimistic manufacturer range numbers that don't reflect real-world conditions (cargo, winds, high temperatures/elevations etc.) QF 707-138Bs never operated any routes even close to those distances. Even your 4700 nm range quoted for the -120B was about the limit of the longest-range 707-320B/C with a typical payload.

[Edited 2012-07-10 17:01:35]

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3097 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF.

Actually it wasn't "just for Qantas". What we now call the short body B707-120 was in fact the standard body that Boeing offered and sold to various airlines. When Boeing came out with the stretched 120, under pressure form some airlines, all airlines other than QF switched their orders to the stretched version and accepted the range reduction for the increase in capacity, QF wanted the range more than the capacity and so kept the short body, which became unique to them.

Gemuser



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25332 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 11):
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 9):
138B was a shorter, lighter model of the B-707-120B with longer legs just for QF.

Actually it wasn't "just for Qantas". What we now call the short body B707-120 was in fact the standard body that Boeing offered and sold to various airlines. When Boeing came out with the stretched 120, under pressure form some airlines, all airlines other than QF switched their orders to the stretched version and accepted the range reduction for the increase in capacity, QF wanted the range more than the capacity and so kept the short body, which became unique to them.

Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.

The Dash 80 was of course shorter than the production 707-120 but it was never intended to represent the intended size of the production 707.

[Edited 2012-07-11 16:07:24]

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12146 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/707sec2.pdf

The B-707-138B had the same MTOW as the B-707-120B, 257,000 lbs, and carried the same fuel load (116,620 lbs, or 17,406 US gallons), but being a lighter and smaller airplane, it had more range, but also carried fewer pax and cargo.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/arff/arff707.pdf

As with all B-707s the -138 could also carry aux fuel tanks but I am not sure if any -120B/-138B ever did. The tanks were used occasionally during military charters for the B-707-320B/C.


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 7):
Probably a massage table and a full-time masseur.

There's a joke about relief pilots, or pilot's relief lurking there, but I refuse to go any farther.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5664 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2572 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Just curious if you happen to have a source for that. None of the books I've seen on 707 history and development mention that the -138 was anything other than the standard -120 shortened by 10 ft. to improve range to meet QF requirements.

Not to hand unfortunately, in the process of moving and will be for the next 3-4 months (looooong story!). But is has been around for ages, including on several threads on this site. Somebody on the Australian Aviation thread may have a source, I certain I've seen it discussed there.

Gemuser



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