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Cathay Pacific To Order 26 A350-1000  
User currently offlineflythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29385 times:

Cathay Pacific has just announced on Hong Kong Stock Exchange (HKEx) the purchase of 26 A350-1000, of which 16 is converted from existing A359 order and the rest are exercise of option. They are due to delivered between 2018 and 2020.

http://www.hkexnews.hk/listedco/list.../sehk/2012/0710/LTN20120710435.pdf

Seems that Airbus has turned the games on again.

140 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29317 times:

Fair's fair. Cathay do seem to like the A350. It also appears that the sometimes unloved A350-1000 at least meets Cathay's needs. Airbus will be sorry that Emirates (and Qatar?) are less enamoured of it but there's no pleasing everyone.

It also seems that there is room for both the A350-1000 and 777-300ER in the same fleet. No great surprises there.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4963 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29306 times:
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Quoting flythere (Thread starter):
Seems that Airbus has turned the games on again.

Which was only to be expected of a brand-new airplane. Although some out here expressed great doubts since very few new orders came in, it was always clear that with new copies becoming available in 2018/2019 that no customer will rush to buy the A350-1000.

But at some point in time you have to secure your position into getting the delivery slots you want/need for your operations. CX has realised that and goes for the most modern product available when it enters into service!  .

Congrats to CX, Airbus and RR for securing this order.  .


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10243 posts, RR: 97
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29198 times:
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Quoting PM (Reply 1):
Airbus will be sorry that Emirates (and Qatar?) are less enamoured of it but there's no pleasing everyone.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that those airlines will place follow-up orders for the type....

Quoting PM (Reply 1):
It also seems that there is room for both the A350-1000 and 777-300ER in the same fleet

That's true.
however, CX could be using these as a 773ER replacement. The earliest don't arrive until 2018

Rgds


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29102 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 3):
That's true.
however, CX could be using these as a 773ER replacement. The earliest don't arrive until 2018

True enough. But we'll certainly be seeing numbers of each flying side by side for several years. My guess is that the 777-300ER will be in Cathay's fleet (in high numbers) for many years to come.

(Something else for me to avoid...    Wow!    )


User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 28989 times:

Since Cathay is coverting 16 A359s as part of this order, I'm not finding this to be very impressive. If the A35J works out, great. If it does not, then Cathay can either find a way out or go back into the A359. This gives Cathay much more flexibility. This is just a net gain for Airbus of 10 A350 orders, and so it is no game changer at all. Now perhaps add 10 more with a few other airlines, and that will be another story. However, the airlines are clearly waiting for the updated 777. With all three engine manufacturers salavating at the chance of getting into that program, that is a sign of where the people with perhaps the most insight believe the marketing is heading.

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4963 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 28944 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 3):
CX could be using these as a 773ER replacement.

They very well could be replacements for the B77W.  .

Quoting PM (Reply 4):
My guess is that the 777-300ER will be in Cathay's fleet (in high numbers) for many years to come

I do not doubt that for a second. And CX would also be a logical candidate for a possible B777-9X and they remain a favorite to acquire A380's some day. Most likely if the A380-900 is launched they will select it for quite a number of their routes. That would give them quite an impressive wide-body line-up, but that is all too speculative at present.  .


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 28886 times:

I absolutely expect those planes to be replacing older 77Ws. Otherwise they dont make much sense. If CX would be bold and optimistic as to expansion, they would have ordered VLAs.

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 28853 times:
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Nice to see the A350-1000 attracting some interest. With a realistic range of 7,100nm (15% less than Airbus claims), London, Johannesburg and Vancouver are within reach from Hong Kong.

If only Airbus could release a seat map on their website showing potential layouts... I like looking at those  



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28761 times:
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Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
With a realistic range of 7,100nm (15% less than Airbus claims)

Please elaborate.

Fred


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28712 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
Since Cathay is coverting 16 A359s as part of this order, I'm not finding this to be very impressive. If the A35J works out, great. If it does not, then Cathay can either find a way out or go back into the A359.

But then, why convert in the first place? Why convert to the relatively undefined -1000 today, instead of sticking to the well-known, sweet-spot of the family -900? The option to convert the -900s to -1000s later on would have always existed, there was absolutely no need to commit today. Therefore, I think this is an important endorsement of the -1000 by CX.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 7002 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28668 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
This is just a net gain for Airbus of 10 A350 orders...

Actually, it's rather more than that. As you say, Cathay could no doubt shift their order back to the -900 but, for now, they have given the -1000 a huge endorsement. Perhaps not a "game-changer" but the kind of good news Airbus have been waiting for. (And needed.)

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
Now perhaps add 10 more with a few other airlines...

My guess is that we'll see that in the not too distant future. Your guess?

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
With all three engine manufacturers salavating at the chance of getting into that program, that is a sign of where the people with perhaps the most insight believe the marketing is heading.

All three engine OEMs want a piece of the next 777 (though they all know that not all will). That's hardly news and it hardly constitutes a statement regarding where "the marketing is heading". Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth but you seem to be implying that this suggests that RR, GE and PW see the new 777 'beating' the A350-1000. I see it more in terms of...

1. GE very sensibly wanting to hang onto what must by now be a cash cow,
2. PW understandably wanted to get back on a widebody,
3. RR hoping to leverage their monopoly position on the A350.

No doubt all three think they'd make money on the new 777 and I'm sure that the one or two who are chosen will do so. Just what it may say about the future of the A350 is, alas, rather more opaque.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4963 posts, RR: 40
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28639 times:
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Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
and so it is no game changer at all

No airplane ever is. Each new model is an evolution of the previous models.

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 5):
the airlines are clearly waiting for the updated 777.

Are they? An order for 26 big twins is big by any standard and no indication that "airlines are clearly waiting for the warmed-over B777"  .

Quoting r2rho (Reply 10):
But then, why convert in the first place? Why convert to the relatively undefined -1000 today, instead of sticking to the well-known, sweet-spot of the family -900?

You are sport on. And they have done so knowing that late 2018 is the first chance they get for a free delivery slot. Which is telling a positive story imho.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 10):
Therefore, I think this is an important endorsement of the -1000 by CX.

It sure is.  


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28515 times:
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Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
Nice to see the A350-1000 attracting some interest. With a realistic range of 7,100nm (15% less than Airbus claims), London, Johannesburg and Vancouver are within reach from Hong Kong.




Is the A350-1000 capable of flying to LAX or SFO ? JFK or Toronto ? IF this plane is a "true" 77W replacement it needs to fly nonstop to the east coast of North America.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4963 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28465 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
IF this plane is a "true" 77W replacement it needs to fly nonstop to the east coast of North America.

On paper it has a design range of 8,400 NM which is more then the B77W which has a design range (if I am not mistaken) of 7,900 NM. Then again, the real opponent for the A350-1000 will most likely be the B777-X series.  .

[Edited 2012-07-10 12:33:44 by srbmod]

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12595 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28369 times:

I would have thought that CX's first priority for the A351 would be as a (standard) 773 replacement; true, not the best use of an airraft with a 7,000nm range, but then CX has never been above intelligent misuse of acft; what's the longest route flown by CX's standard 773s? Sapporo? Denpasar, possibly BOM?

I think it's a big psychological boost for Airbus; as much as one might admire EY, CX is one of the industry's true big-hitters.


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28284 times:

On a side note, it signals to me that the Chinese embargo against Airbus is over... What about emission right trade?

User currently offlineCerecl From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28249 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 17):
On a side note, it signals to me that the Chinese embargo against Airbus is over... What about emission right trade?

CX is a Hong Kong-based British(?)-owned company, it does not require any Chinese government approval to buy aircrafts so this order says nothing about Chinese/Airbus/ETS. As far as I know the Chinese government is still fiercely opposing the ETS.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 28087 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 3):
CX could be using these as a 773ER replacement. The earliest don't arrive until 2018

Eventually, the A35J will replace the 77W's, but not with this order. They are only a few years old and CX is still receiving them.

Quoting na (Reply 7):
I absolutely expect those planes to be replacing older 77Ws. Otherwise they dont make much sense. If CX would be bold and optimistic as to expansion, they would have ordered VLAs.

   I expect these A35J's to replace their remaining 744s. No VLA's for CX in the near future I'm afraid, except freighters.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 6):
CX would also be a logical candidate for a possible B777-9X

I know they have expressed interest in the 777-9X, but I can't really see where it would fit in their fleet, certainly now that CX are going for the A35J in this big way. The 777-9X will only be able to compete with the A35J in 10 abreast Y, and I can't see CX going for that.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):
I would have thought that CX's first priority for the A351 would be as a (standard) 773 replacement

Possibly, but I think CX could very well be in the running for the 787-10X, as 773 and A333 (ex Dragonair) replacement.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27988 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 10):
But then, why convert in the first place? Why convert to the relatively undefined -1000 today, instead of sticking to the well-known, sweet-spot of the family -900? The option to convert the -900s to -1000s later on would have always existed, there was absolutely no need to commit today. Therefore, I think this is an important endorsement of the -1000 by CX.

If the -1000 is relatively undefined today, how could this possibly be an important endorsement of it? It would make more sense to stay with the sweet spot of the A359 and not covert 16 frames to the -1000 until its design was firmed up.

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 12):
Are they? An order for 26 big twins is big by any standard and no indication that "airlines are clearly waiting for the warmed-over B777"

A net order of 10 aircraft, because 16 A359s were converted. So we'll have to wait to see what other airlines do. This is really reminicent of LH's 748I order. If other airlines do not follow along with Cathay here, Airbus is going to still be struggling to find a market for the A35J juswt like Boeing is for the 748I. Remember, they both market their producdts to airlines worldwide, and no one has been biting. One major airline is not enough. The question really is where are the other airlines? For now, this was a shrewd move by Cathay to limit its risk on the A350 program.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27858 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 19):
   I expect these A35J's to replace their remaining 744s. No VLA's for CX in the near future I'm afraid, except freighters.

You are mistaken. By the time these 26 planes are being delivered at the end of this decade, CX will certainly have less than 10 pax-744s left, if any (and those will all be 24 years and older). Unless a surprising market growth will swallow them up, those A350-1000s must largely replace early-built 77Ws and before that of cause the then old 773s.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4963 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 27794 times:
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Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 20):
A net order of 10 aircraft, because 16 A359s were converted. So we'll have to wait to see what other airlines do.

Well, CX is the first to order after the design changes and improvements. No doubt many others will follow, but you are right that we have to wait a bit longer for that to happen. But I am quite sure that many others will follow.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 19):
The 777-9X will only be able to compete with the A35J in 10 abreast Y, and I can't see CX going for that.

That is true, but in a 9-abreast configuration the airplane would most likely offer very high comfort levels for the future passengers. Any way, also here we have to wait and see how things will unfold.  


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27569 times:

Nice to see conservative Cathay leading the way for once.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 19):
I expect these A35J's to replace their remaining 744s


I don't see it like this. When the worlds airlines, like CX, swallowed up 744's like nobodies business, it was the one and only in its class. Looking forward to 2018-2020 and beyond, there is a wonderful variety of overlapping wide bodied transports that can cover the old 744 ground and of course ground that the 744 could not cover. The A351 has been ordered to fulfill a particular job, not because it replaces the old family car.

[Edited 2012-07-10 12:34:09 by srbmod]


L1011 - P F M
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12965 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27389 times:

Glad to see a high quality airline ordering a high quality product!

Quoting PM (Reply 11):
Perhaps not a "game-changer" but the kind of good news Airbus have been waiting for. (And needed.)

I was thinking more orders would come. Clearly Airbus changed the J design to get more airlines interested.

Now it puts just a tad more pressure on Boeing to define its 777X plans more clearly.

It does show that at least one airline isn't that concerned about the long lead time issue - they just swapped from the earliest A350 variant to the last.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1715 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 27700 times:

Quoting na (Reply 21):
You are mistaken. By the time these 26 planes are being delivered at the end of this decade, CX will certainly have less than 10 pax-744s left, if any (and those will all be 24 years and older).

ok, thank you for this information. But don't forget CX 's net order for the A350 will be 10 - so these could replace those last remaining 744s. The other 16 A35J's were initially ordered as A359's, so these already had been allocated for a certain role - but now in a larger capacity form.

It's just that I find it hard to believe CX will replace planes they've declared the backbone of their fleet - and seem to be very pleased with it it - already after 11 years (first one delivered 2007)!

I wonder what Zeke has to say about this  



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
25 sweair : I think this is only the start for a very bright future in the big twin market Airbus will dominate. I can see a 60/40 market share for Airbus here. 2
26 na : This is a very serious blow for the not-yet decided 777X-Program and a hint, that Boeing should think again about wether a totally new aircraft in 202
27 Revelation : Very serious blow? What is your thinking behind such a statement?
28 na : I think I said that. Let me add I always said that Airbus will likely counter a possible 777X with a A350 upgrade to be expected by 2025 the latest t
29 MAV88 : Hopefully some of these make their way down to Miami and CX will start non-stop daily HKG-MIA flights.
30 ScottB : Why convert now? Perhaps Airbus gave them an attractive incentive to convert the orders to get some market momentum behind the variant. Perhaps CX ap
31 Post contains images EPA001 : He could even end up flying the A350-1000 as pilot or co-pilot. I am sure he is quite pleased with this decision. .
32 KC135TopBoom : It is not an order for 26 big twins. It is an order for 10 of them, 16 are conversions of already exsisting orders of big twins. Why is the proposed
33 mogandoCI : Personally, I think a sizable chunk of these A350-1000s (up to half of them) would be used for intra-Asia regional routes to replace 773As and 744s th
34 Post contains images astuteman : You don't see the significance of this announcement? correct. Answering your own question in the same sentence certainly saves us a lot of trouble...
35 Stitch : CX has enough 777-300ERs on order to replace the remaining 747-400 fleet and they will all arrive before the first A350-1000. My personal WAG is that
36 poLOT : According to CX's press release when they first ordered the A359 deliveries were set to begin in 2016 and stretch 3 years (so until 2019). It is poss
37 Roseflyer : I think with three of the airlines that have ordered the A350-1000 also having 77Ws on order, we will see airlines operating both side by side. I rea
38 JerseyFlyer : ...and a number of A333s still to arrive - they ordered 15 not so long ago.
39 kaitak : Has CX indicated likely pax numbers for either the A350-900/1000? With so many different configs around (from four class intercontinental to two class
40 na : Maybe, but why should they buy 777X when they have the A350-1000? Those two types are too similar. If they want an "alternative" then a 748I or A380
41 poLOT : We don't know enough about the 777X to say. But you are a fool if you think that CX will not consider it when the time comes. CX had a whopping 4 A34
42 Stitch : I have been informed that in four classes with the new product, the 777-300ER (77H) will seat 275 and the A350-1000 will seat 273.
43 astuteman : For a goodly while, certainly. Eventually I think we'll see some airlines operating the 777X and A350-1000 side by side In which case this makes sens
44 Post contains images sweair : I think so too, if they see a 25% gain from the A350-1000 they will drop their 77Ws fast, the irony would be if the 77W becomes the future 346.. I do
45 na : Who says they will dump 50 77Ws quickly? I expect a part of those 77Ws to be replaced by thes A350s. Anything else makes less sense than that. I cert
46 Post contains images neutrino : Maybe "warmed over" is placed higher in esteem than "upgrade", considering that the 777X will incoporate much much more changes?
47 Post contains images EPA001 : I would not even dare to make statements like that on Boeing, even though I slightly favor Airbus. I believe the B777-X, if Boeing is ready to offer
48 Post contains images Stitch : CX held onto their A340-600s for a fair bit (though they were leased) even as they ordered significant amounts of 777-300ERs. And having ordered 14 m
49 CX Flyboy : We have been looking for a large aircraft to fly regionally to replace the 773. It will be interesting to see whether this order is it. Some airlines
50 cloudyapple : The 4 A342s were stop gap machines leased from Philippine Airlines. The 3 A346s were leased for a very specific route and was the only type available
51 Acheron : For the same reasons that the 777-X is the "best thing evar!!1" and the "A350 Mk1 is just an uncompetitive warmed over A330 with new engines", perhap
52 Post contains images scbriml : Paint it how you like (I think most would consider the -800 & -900 as medium twins), it's a significant endorsement for the model from one of the
53 Post contains links astuteman : I'll apologise up front, but that, to me, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever... http://www.aviationnews.eu/2012/07/1.../cathay-pacific-selects-a350
54 Revelation : The A350 will be an outstanding product. I which it great luck and hope it can avoid the troubles the 787 had on its way to market and now to ramp-up
55 srbmod : Unless you want this thread locked, please keep the discussion on the Cathay Pacific order. Discussions not directly related to the order, like future
56 Post contains images phxa340 : For CX that doesn't need the additional range of the 777X this is a very smart move. This plane is literally perfect for CX. And ... yes , this is a
57 Post contains links LAXDESI : Given nearly identical length of A350J and B77W, the above numbers seem right to me in 9-abreast Y for both. For CX, the extra width of B77W does not
58 PW100 : You sort of answered your own question here . . . I think we can all agree that: * the 359 will be a very fine airplane, right at the sweetspot; * th
59 Post contains images EPA001 : That could very well be the case, but I was thinking about the proposed thinner walls on the B777-X. if Boeing can really shave that much material of
60 shengzhurou : the early models of A330-300 and A340-300 are getting old, they are approaching 15-20 years old and needs to be replace soon. the A350-1000 is more of
61 Scipio : In the process, they became the biggest customer thus far of the -1000. With the first A350 still having to take to the air, this is a huge endorseme
62 Stitch : I don't see what the 777-9 would give them. The A350-1000 is a direct replacement for the 777-300ER in terms of both passenger and cargo capacity and
63 Post contains images rotating14 : Ok, here it goes. While a majority of people here praise today's announcement by CX and Airbus, I'm not convinced its a victory. I'm just looking at i
64 Stitch : Because CX has modeled the A350-1000 and determined it's as good a plane as the 777-300ER in terms of performance and will save them a significant am
65 jfk777 : Cathay has ordered 60 77W of which they operate 24 already, this new order is 6 years away. Cathay could be taking a page from Lufthansa with a 3 tie
66 scbriml : Boeing shows CX as having ordered 46. Where do you get 60 from? Airbus already had that with EK and QR.
67 Post contains links poLOT : They are not getting 60, but rather ~50. They have 46 on order but they are leasing 4 from IFLC. It also appears that they just took a used 2009 77W
68 CX Flyboy : Leading in terms of being a big early customer for the A350-1000 you mean? Don't forget that when it comes to new aircraft, CX was one of the initial
69 KDAYflyer : Nice to see this aircraft landed it's first order since the redesign. Cathay is a very reputable carrier. I wonder too if this is in place of the ant
70 Post contains images CXB77L : I don't believe so. CX's oldest 777-300ERs are only going to be 11 years old by the time their A350-1000s arrive. As CX Flyboy has mentioned, CX has
71 flipdewaf : That sounds odd to me, the 744s fly the long haul premium routes so to put 10 abreast in a 77X and go long haul and then go 9 abreast in regional A35
72 Post contains links zeke : Could even be the launch customer for the -900, the 2 ILFC aircraft could be arriving in 2014. An article the is relevant on to how these aircraft co
73 Stitch : If Boeing can get an extra 4 inches of cabin width, that would allow 17.4" seat cushion width in 3+4+3 which is very close to the 17.5" seat cushion
74 PM : I seem to recall that QR insisted on receiving their planes first.
75 Post contains links zeke : Video of the press announcement now on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSALI...5GH-Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player
76 frigatebird : Very interesting article which should answer a lot of questions and theories here in this thread. Indeed, the A35J will not replace the 77W, which wo
77 Post contains images astuteman : The article has some interesting expansions on that.. Note the "very" long haul buried in the comment... That's "long-haul" repeated 3 times in one s
78 BlueSky1976 : I believe that was for A32XNeo family members - they will receive first of each.
79 kiwiandrew : While that's true, CX have a long tradition of what I believe they refer to as "intelligent misuse" of longhaul aircraft. It has not been unusual ove
80 Post contains images astuteman : Rgds
81 mdavies06 : I think that unless the market out of HKG moves substantially towards the LCC direction, with a mix of 737/320 becoming the norm in the short haul mar
82 neutrino : CX has company in that department. Eg., SQ has for years been putting their longest route ULH A345s on one their shortest runs; to JKT.
83 astuteman : I think the point here really is that CX have clearly ordered this plane in order to utilise it's range capability, and in particular the increase it
84 Stitch : The report did say one of the roles of the A350-1000 is to "replace large regional aircraft", which directly describes the 777-300 and could describe
85 jfk777 : The entire Cathay route system ? The A350-1000 sounds like a good plane but lets see how it does to JFK before the 77W is declared a "dog". Lots has
86 gigneil : What? The 787-10 is a 777-200 sized airliner. Maybe slightly larger. Nowhere even remotely the size of a 777-300. NS
87 Stitch : Assuming the 5-6m stretch Boeing has been discussing, a 787-10 would slot halfway between the 777-200 and 777-300 in terms of cabin length.
88 StickShaker : While the 787-10 is likely to be an excellent regional performer the most likely cadidates to order it once launched will be airlines already operati
89 cloudyapple : Funnily enough the A346 was in exactly the same position as the 77W currently is. It was the best thing since sliced bread before it suddenly became
90 OldAeroGuy : Except that the 773ER EIS was only two years after the A346. The A3510 EIS will lag the 773ER by at least twelve years.
91 neutrino : And the T7 still have another life ahead in the form of the likely -8 & -9 whereas it was (sadly) the end of the road for the A340.
92 BMI727 : They love the 777-300ER but don't seem to want to fit seats ten across, so it's only logical that they'll at least like the A350-1000. They'll probab
93 zeke : The A350-1000 is the Airbus replacement for the A340-600, it exceeds their A346 range/payload in all respects. CX operated the A346 without issue for
94 BMI727 : Emirates gets all the way to LAX with their 77Ws with a restriction that makes it worthwhile over a 77L. I want to say that it's usually in the neigh
95 cloudyapple : Blocking out 30 seats is about 1 seat per row. That's your 9 vs 10 abreast.
96 CXB77L : While that's true, it wouldn't surprise me if a portion of that 26 is configured in a high density configuration for medium haul routes around Asia,
97 sweair : As a stretch adds weight wouldnt it be better to just widen the current 77W and make it lighter? Save a few tons of dead weight? It would still fit mo
98 Post contains images astuteman : I think that's sort of Zeke's point though. The restriction means that you could get the same number of seats available in a more comfortable 9-acros
99 CXB77L : It's only a 2.7 metre stretch, and any weight gain due to the stretch is likely to be countered by the use of all new CFRP wings and Al-Li skin, as w
100 RayChuang : I think right now the A350-1000 order may be a conditional one, especially dependent on Airbus delivering the planes on time and proving the planes ca
101 Post contains images zeke : You mean like the 77Ws without F ? Or an old 77W. Did it ? I mean on normal flights, not due to crew running out of hours, MEL/CDL items, just pure l
102 jfk777 : NO I was refferring to ALL planes not 77W's. Physics apply to the A350 too and it too will carry and burn lots of fuel in the first 12 hours to burn
103 Post contains images EPA001 : I highly doubt that. I would almost dare to say that that statement will not be the reality in 10 years time. . It will be one of the serious options
104 PW100 : Is that for 1) 9 abreast 77W vs 9 abreast -9X, 2) 9 abreast 77W vs 10 abreast -9X, 3) 10 abreast 77W vs 10 abreast -9X?
105 Post contains images zeke : Physics also says an aircraft that is 40t lighter burns a lot less fuel, and cruises higher. Did I forget to mention the bit about cruising faster me
106 Post contains links and images CXB77L : Except that they don't go to Australia and New Zealand. I would be very surprised if it did, given that their oldest is only going to be 11 years old
107 zeke : They probably will go to AKL, AFAIK the 77W and 744 go there in summer. Don't count on it then. Lots of crap floats about, just like on here. Closer
108 BMI727 : Except that's the current 777. I would think that any 777X, especially with all of the input from Emirates and considering that going ten across woul
109 Stitch : A 777X at 10-abreast should offer similar seat cushion width to an A350 at 9-abreast, but there is the psychological aspect of 3+3+3 seeming more comf
110 jfk777 : Zeke, No I don't think Airbus builds crap, the A330 is better then a 767. Cathay is probably the best magened airlien in the world and some US airlin
111 LAXDESI : 777-9X works out better than A350-1000 in EK configuration(10-abreast Y, 7-abreast J). A350-1000 works out better than 777W in CX configuration, and
112 CXB77L : Yes, there is indeed. No argument from me there. That chart from Airbus you posted above is just one example that got my 'crap detector' reading off
113 ZK-NBT : The 744 comes to AKL in summer, never a 77W yet. Though at this stage it is showing 2 A343s next summer, that could still change. They have dropped t
114 zeke : So why do so many airlines including CX still order Airbus aircraft then ? Who said CX has not ? maybe they have, maybe they not, you do not know. Re
115 Post contains links and images ferpe : In the context of the announcement of the updates to the A350-1000 Airbus published the MTOW, MLW, MZFW and this payload range diagram which shows th
116 zeke : I am aware of those slides, just reinforces what I said, and where you obtained the information from. Unless you know the basis for building the char
117 Post contains links and images ferpe : You are right, that slide was not the one I intended to show. This one was presented by Fabrice Bregier at Le Bourget 2011 in the context of the 35JN
118 sweair : We only have paper numbers for both A350-1000 and 777-X, we do have true numbers for the 77W. The updated A350-1000 is aimed mostly at the 77W. Now Bo
119 zeke : It does not show a lot, e.g. the cabin configuration, the fuel planning rules etc. It is for investors, not for customers. All it is showing is the t
120 jfk777 : I don'tknow and you don't but Airbus has a propensity to announce orders at the big air shows. With Farnborough just finishing last week if CX had or
121 zeke : You have no idea if CX does or does not have additional orders with any OEM for any airframe. It is nothing more than a string of assumptions that me
122 CX Flyboy : I think that with our new American CEO, this could well become the future norm for us!
123 scbriml : Don't see it, frankly. Believe him or not, Leahy says he's never lost an order because a specific brand of engine wasn't an option. If AF are prepare
124 art : IIRC Airbus would have liked GE to offer an engine to cover the 800/900/1000 versions but GE would not do that, hence RR as the only engine supplier.
125 Stitch : At the time of the original A350 launch, GE would have been the only engine choice for the first two years of production and that might have been ext
126 Confuscius : 1 out of 6, looks like Boeing is a follower and not a leader.[Edited 2012-07-15 11:09:38]
127 pygmalion : not if you back it up a few more years. Follower and leader all depend on where you start measuring. A300 - 727 was the driver A330 - 757/767 was the
128 Acheron : If Boeing is so great, where are the 777 orders from Qantas and Lufthansa?. You fail at logic.
129 jfk777 : Both of these topics have been well covered, I hope this helps your logic.
130 Post contains images abba : I think the same might be said about CX and the A380! Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander
131 CXB77L : I do not dispute that. It is logical to me that airline configurations will differ from the configuration from which OEMs derive their data, and that
132 scbriml : I think he was comparing the updated -1000 with the original version, not the 77W.
133 zeke : The design payload for the 77W is around 36.5t, for the A350-1000, it is around 35t. The A350-1000 will carry the 77W design payload of 36.5t payload
134 CX Flyboy : I love the 777...That is no secret since I fly the thing but as much as I like it, I admit that there is a real possibility that based on figures the
135 Post contains images EPA001 : No it does not have to mean that. But it could very well also be the case. Hence why the B777-X program is really a necessity. No doubt that answer f
136 frigatebird : Well, if it wasn't, Airbus would have made the lemon of the century of course. But with CX still receiving 77W's, I'm pretty convinced they'll fly it
137 CXB77L : Again, I don't dispute that airline configurations and missions will result in airlines achieving different figures than is claimed by the OEM. What
138 PW100 : ?????? How do you figure one proves 3510 payload/range data 5 years before EIS, to Anet? One can set up guarantees (to customers, not to A.net), but
139 Post contains links and images ferpe : I can't agree with this, this chart was presented by Fabrice Breiger when the new version of the 350-1000 was presented at Le Bourget 2011 in the con
140 zeke : Both OEMs initially developed products for different market segments, how they define their market segments are easily seen in the market forecasts,
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