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AA Looking At 5 Merger Partners  
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1169 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34948 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...creditors-discuss-5-003453922.html

Looks like things are going to get all kinds of interesting now. I'm just wondering, if this happens are the AA folk prepared to be stapled to the bottom of whatever seniority list they join? They are, after all, a dying airline and whomever they join forces with would be saving their bacon. They should all be okay with that though since that's logic they understand well, having used it on the TWA folk. Just sayin....

208 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6086 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34966 times:

Where is DL in all of this. I surely expect them to protect their competitive interests.

Wait....their off stealing AA customers in Latin America! 



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34858 times:

errr...okay...US was obvious and B6 somewhat inevitable but AS, F9 and VX??? I believe AS to be strongly focused on independence but what possible scale and advantage would an F9 or VX merger make against UA and DL (or even AS if it did come to it)? Makes no sense, maybe this is a ploy to say, Gee, we looked at all the options but only US made any real sense (but we secretly knew it would be them all along)

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3733 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34788 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 1):

Where is DL in all of this. I surely expect them to protect their competitive interests.

Richard Anderson has stated that DL is only interested in the DFW and MIA hubs.

That said, in addition to the mandatory US bid and an asset sale to DL, I could also see a Texas Pacific Group/IAG joint takeover, with TPG owning 75% of "new AA" shares to comply with US foreign ownership laws. I'm not so sure what the other two would be besides US, DL (assets only), and TPG/IAG.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1169 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34760 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 2):
errr...okay...US was obvious and B6 somewhat inevitable but AS, F9 and VX??? I believe AS to be strongly focused on independence but what possible scale and advantage would an F9 or VX merger make against UA and DL (or even AS if it did come to it)? Makes no sense, maybe this is a ploy to say, Gee, we looked at all the options but only US made any real sense (but we secretly knew it would be them all along)

I think you hit the nail on the head. It's just posturing. That said, it's interesting to contemplate all the different scenarios.


User currently offlinewrldtvlr From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34726 times:

With that list the AA pilots won't be too far down the list at all, if not end up on top.

The question is, how would any of them make sense as a merger partner, save for US? Even US doesn't really bring much to the table regarding strengthening their network or economies of scale.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8324 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34579 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
That said, in addition to the mandatory US bid and an asset sale to DL, I could also see a Texas Pacific Group/IAG joint takeover, with TPG owning 75% of "new AA" shares to comply with US foreign ownership laws. I'm not so sure what the other two would be besides US, DL (assets only), and TPG/IAG.

Maybe the pilots own 15 %, IAG 25%, TPG 51% and other labor 9%.

Alaska, JB and small fish do stuff in certain markets but not in DFW, MIA or ORD. AA should chnage its name to "AAG", American Airlines Group and have multiple airlines, it could operate AA and JB. Hey in Chapter 11 anything can happen and why not ? Qantas is getting saved by its LCC, Jetstar.

Usair wants to get bigger for its own interests, they don't care about AA. DL justs wants to be the biggest airline in the world, AA's Miami hub would fill the last hole in their route map very nicely and all AA 777 would end up flying to Asia and not from Miami. Can you imagine no 777 to Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires or LHR, I can and DL would 767 everyhing.


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1906 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34578 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Thread starter):
They are, after all, a dying airline

A dying airline? That's a tad over-the-top isn't it? There no more "dying" than DL, NW, US, UA were "dying" when they went through BK.


User currently offlinemilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34576 times:

My money is on a B6/IAG tie up.

User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6212 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 34574 times:

Up until yesterday it was all about emerging from BK standalone and the cornerstone etc. etc. What could have possibly happened? Tom apparently was forced to change his tune.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 34554 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 2):
errr...okay...US was obvious and B6 somewhat inevitable but AS, F9 and VX???

IMO:
B6- More obvious than US
AS- ehh, not really
F9- never going to happen
VX- nope either.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3046 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 34551 times:

I don't see how an AA tie up with AS, F9, or VX could be called a merger when it'll be more like a takeover. A true merger is with either B6 or US.

What does AS bring to the table? A northwestern hub? A 737 fleet?

What about F9? the DEN hub? VX and some slots at LAX/SFO?

B6 brings much more to the table, with its position in JFK. US brings the most: CLT and PHL.

The question is whether AA has already accepted that merging is inevitable and is seeking to weasel out of a deal with US?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 34404 times:

American and Virgin America/ Frontier? Lmao... I guess in the business world, two loss makers put together equal one money maker. Why not just merge all three of them together...

I could see an Alaska and American tie up, but it would be Alaska taking over American, not the other way around.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 33950 times:

A merger with B6 AND US could be interesting. If they dumped PHL out the scenario that would give them solid footholds at Boston, JFK and CLT and would go well with the MIA feed to the Caribbean and beyond.

User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2742 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 33950 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):
What does AS bring to the table?

- An excellent management team

- A solid balance sheet

- A business with a larger market cap than AMR (i.e., AS would be the one 'taking over' AA).

But please, for the love of all that is holy, keep AA (and DL) away from AS!!!



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineeagle125 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 33793 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):
B6 brings much more to the table, with its position in JFK.

Not to mention a revitalized SJU operation. I would love to see AA pull out of this and stand alone, but if a merger must happen, a tie-up with B6 looks the most appealing, more so than a merger with US. Certainly not F9.



AT7, M80, 83, 88, E145, 190, B722, 732, 733, 735, 73G, 752, 772, 77W, A319, 320, 343
User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33659 times:

Funny how everyone eager to see JetBlue merged into AA. Apparently many on this site are too young to remember Reno Air merger. Where is the vestiges of the TWA merger?

User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33575 times:

Quoting chepos (Reply 9):
Up until yesterday it was all about emerging from BK standalone and the cornerstone etc. etc. What could have possibly happened? Tom apparently was forced to change his tune.

Nothing happened, it is part of due diligence. The CEO and Board of Directors must look out for the creditors and keep them informed of all options. AA has simply stated that these are the five most likely merger scenarios and outlined the positives and negatives to its creditors. No doubt AA also explained the positives and negatives of remaining a stand alone carrier.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33418 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 12):
American and Virgin America/ Frontier? Lmao... I guess in the business world, two loss makers put together equal one money maker. Why not just merge all three of them together...

In my mind, Virgin America would be about eliminating a competitor. VX is competing in markets like JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO, and SFO-DFW, and mucking things up for AA and others that were already entrenched in those markets. Maybe they'd keep a few of the routes that VX has, but for the most part it would just be dismantled and the airbuses would go to replacing MD-80s.

Frontier could likely be had for very cheap, and probably has some nice lease rates on their fleet after their trip through bankruptcy. Might be another way to accelerate the MD-80 retirement. Unless AA believes that post-bankruptcy they will have their costs low enough to win the three way battle at DEN, I think F9 would also be about dismantling the airline and moving the assets elsewhere.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 11):
What does AS bring to the table? A northwestern hub? A 737 fleet?

AS brings a few things to the table, but nearly all of them are already covered by the codeshare. The only reason I see for AA to merge with AS is if they fear that DL will make a move for them first, locking AA out of the west coast network that AS provides.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2281 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33412 times:

talk about a smoke screen....in the end it will be inevitable that AA/US tie up somehow, its the only true legacy tie up left to happen.

User currently offlineAS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33384 times:

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 14):

But please, for the love of all that is holy, keep AA (and DL) away from AS!!!

I do not see why they would want to take over AS. It would ruin the SEA customer base and the hub that has already been created as many have stated and predicted that if AS was taken over, hub status would be gone quickly. I don't see F9 happening at all given the three-way war at Denver. VX would eliminate one competitor to the cornerstones (except MIA) but I don't see the benefit long-term. B6 for the JFK slots but I bet DOJ would have something to say about that such as keeping fares low and given that B6 is a well recognized brand name in customer service, that would not go over well. I like the idea of US/AA coming together though as it would be an airline on the scale of DL and UA.


User currently offlineCALPSAFltSkeds From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2613 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33381 times:

Funny that the airline in BK seems to be acting like they are in the drivers seat. I know they are bigger than most of the potential airlines , but the BK laws are out of line if AA is running the show as to if they will merge and to whom.

User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33237 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 12):
I could see an Alaska and American tie up, but it would be Alaska taking over American, not the other way around.

Exactly. AA is a failed airline in its current state and is in no position to engage in any hostile takeovers...which is what it would be in the case with AS. B6 is probably happy to continue and expand on its code-share agreement with a new AA and just the same with AS. The idea of a 'merger' with F9 and VX is absurd...they bring nothing to the table whatsoever. US just wants a little respect and thinks they'll finally get it with being bigger. Bigger isn't necessarily better.


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33167 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 13):
A merger with B6 AND US could be interesting. If they dumped PHL out the scenario that would give them solid footholds at Boston, JFK and CLT and would go well with the MIA feed to the Caribbean and beyond.

Because simply dumping a top-5 domestic market and fortress hub is always a good idea.


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 700 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 33143 times:

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 21):
Funny that the airline in BK seems to be acting like they are in the drivers seat. I know they are bigger than most of the potential airlines , but the BK laws are out of line if AA is running the show as to if they will merge and to whom.

The creditors get to appoint new management, and that new** management is now running the airline and running this merger "show." The creditors prefer to get the best possible return, and that's what the management is supposed to seek. That new management is appropriately called AA, and they are in the drivers seat insamuch as they have a few options to entertain, and are seeking the best one for the creditors. Management wouldn't be doing it's best diligence if they hitched up with the first suitor to come calling. (** I know it may be only superficially new.)


25 TecumsehSherman : With US and B6, I think you're looking at just AA one of them merging. With the other three, simply to get any kind of mass out of it, A would have t
26 questions : Why would DL want DFW?
27 aaway : Think outside the box a bit. F9 is likely the least attractive. I think the tell of the tape will be the acquisition costs of a brand for a (primaril
28 IndustryInsider : AA and B6 do not have a codeshare agreement today.
29 Roseflyer : That can't happen. After the TWA merger ex-TWA crews lobbied the Missouri congressmen and a law was passed requiring that mergers fairly preserve sen
30 Post contains images PHX787 : Well with VX I honestly think that it would be a very temporary solution to the problem. Sure you'll get more ops at LAX but I don't think that it wo
31 HPRamper : Same reason US wants DFW. Fantastic O&D base in a healthy market, and fantastic location for east-west connections across the southern half of th
32 aaway : Adds a couple of new (to AA ex-LAX) nonstop markets - deletes a fairly large number of competitive flights.
33 questions : My bet is on a three way deal. Other than domestic East and Southeast US does not bring much to the table and a 1:1 merger will just add more complexi
34 FlyASAGuy2005 : This can't happen BECAUSE of what went down with the TWA-AA merger.
35 F9animal : I had to laugh when I saw F9/AA. No way. I think AA is smarter than that! I personally would prefer to see AA remain solo. As for saying AA is dying,
36 RWA380 : Amen and a hallelujah my brother.......... Yes that is true, AA & US are the last two at the merger party, likely they have both been there the w
37 HiFlyerAS : My mistake...I'd read about an agreement but didn't realize it hadn't actually started yet.
38 PHX787 : Crazy question: Why doesn't US and AS/VX/F9 merge?
39 questions : QUESTION: What do you get when you combine a flag, an Eskimo, a virgin, and an animal? ANSWER: ______________________________________________________
40 ASFlyer : The slow and painful death of the only healthy airline in that bunch.
41 RWA380 : Indeed a crazy question, I doubt it would get approved, It would be a disaster for AS being the strongest link in that daisy chain, the rest being we
42 etops1 : So AA see's its self as the acquirer huh ? Did someone forget to tell them that they are the ones in BK ? Folks , this is all a smoke screen . Get it
43 Post contains images VS11 : AA and VX together sounds pretty ridiculous on the surface but AA desperately needs to do something big and out of the box. AA can be split so that th
44 Post contains images N172DM : I really can't imagine AA merging with B6 or any of the others. A legacy merging with an LCC? That would ruin the name AA has made over the years. I
45 questions : Let me see if I understand this: Domestic flying will be branded Virgin America International flying will be branded Popped Cherry American And the S
46 Post contains images boeing773ER : Well, maybe AS is looking into merging since they recently just took away the pray cards served with dinner..... But in all seriousness, I don't want
47 etops1 : What overlaps are you do you mean between AA and US?? I don't see any except maybe for DC ..
48 chrisair : KEEP ALASKA MY ALASKA.
49 gigneil : AA and US dont overlap in DC. American barely flies there. NS
50 chepos : I guess you haven't seen the bloodbath in DEN, I can see it now- UAL,WN and add AA to the mix. AA operates the hub for 6 months then closes everythin
51 PHX787 : I should've rephrased it - why don't US just merge with one of them?
52 hiflyer : Don't forget Air California....everyone else has!!! I buy the split up.....think that has been the true plan from US and DL....string it along..bleed
53 Post contains images ghifty : In case anybody was wondering, the current market caps for the airlines discussed are: DAL: $9.33bn ALK: $2.56bn LCC (US): $2.19bn JBLU: $1.57bn RJET:
54 RWA380 : I was also going to mention OC, but hiflyer got it for me, Reno Air merger sucked, Air Cal did too, both took a nice regional west coast carrier, and
55 slvrblt : Yes, there is. It's market-limited, to the NE, just JFK and BOS. There are 40+ daily departures for AA and Eagle out of DCA. Add another 10+ daily fo
56 EA CO AS : Relax, AS doesn't want to buy AA. Indeed, AA doesn't need to lose money any faster than they're already doing.
57 Post contains images ghifty : Maybe that's why they're planning an IPO in 2013. Looking at it simply: -US wants to and can. Therefore, they're the most likely. -DL definitely can
58 DeltaL1011man : Delta would want the DCA/LGA/JFK slots they could get. They would also want all of AA's gate at LAX. I haven't seen him say it, just employees who sa
59 bobloblaw : I can't u derstand why everyone thinks B6 is a good merger partner for AA. B6 is a low fare low cost carrier. Merge them with AA and their costs go up
60 AABB777 : This is a exercise to satisfy the BK court. To show them AMR has explored all possibilities/options, and at the end of the day (after exploring potent
61 777law : Doesn't AA already have a relatively large position at JFK? I know that Delta has elbowed its way in to become the dominant carrier (along with B6),
62 mogandoCI : Richard Branson in his usual outfits ?
63 einsteinboricua : That's the whole point. When you look at the NYC airports, UA now holds EWR. DL and AA were kinda equal until DL grew its presence at LGA, so now DL
64 commavia : Although, either with JetBlue or USAirways, the "new AA" would be even more of a force in New York than the "current AA" already is. JetBlue would pr
65 SeeTheWorld : I don't see how AS or B6 would be interested in merging at this point. As far as US, AA folding a huge O&D in PHL, a gold mine of an operation at
66 tommy767 : With the exception of US, I don't see how any of the other carriers would matter in a merger with AA. AS doesn't offer AA anything except SEA. AA has
67 lucky777 : Is it just me or does LCC need AA a hell of a lot more than the other way around? Trushfully, neither one of the 2 has the critical mass to effectivel
68 william : This should be a permanent sticky............excellent post.
69 Post contains images ual777uk : I cannot add more to that, beyond US, not one of the others make much sense.
70 blink182 : Which won't do AA any good. Competitors will always rise up, and we all know how successful AA was with previous west coast mergers with Air Cal and
71 DeltaL1011man : How do you figure? They would have ~60 more slots than Delta(who would have ~150 more slots at LGA) And UA has in the 400 slots ball park? Yeah...AA
72 Post contains images delta2ual : I don't ever claim to be a financial wiz, but how on earth would an AA/B6 merger work? Would AA just take all of B6's facilities and slots? You certa
73 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : Or he should be the CEO of a major company. Or both. I don't think they could *buy* AA. Which wont happen in the US for two reasons. 1) Unions wont l
74 mogandoCI : As if AA at NYC is not O&D oriented already ? I recently tried redeeming AA miles, and found out AA has a *single* daily daytime nonstop between
75 aaway : Neil, I see where you're going. I agree with you - to an extent. Considering the barriers, DCA and LGA probably have the greatest intrinsic value, wi
76 Post contains images fxramper : Out of the proposed mergers, no airline offers anything AA would want except B6. I have no idea if that company is interested in merging with AA. That
77 aaway : AS is the missing north-south component of the LAX network. The Mexico route authorities also have value since they're still governed by bilateral, a
78 ckfred : First, AA is not a dying carrier. It will do just fine, if it comes out of bankruptcy by itself. Second, considering the size of the various labor gr
79 FlyPIJets : I have gone though a number of the posts, sorry if I am repeating. To me, if AA is considering multiple merger partners, sounds like they are consider
80 BoeingGuy : If AA bought AS, it would be a bloodbath. AS's route structure would be gone so fast it would make your head spin. Only an idiot of company leadershi
81 bobloblaw : In some cases AA mgmt isnt going to have a choice. AA wil lbe bought, they are not buying.
82 panamair : But even then, JFK is not that big of a prize. The perennial problem with JFK is that as long as there is LGA, it will almost always never be the fir
83 TSS : AS and B6, being the independents covering the West and East coasts respectively, merging with each other would seem to make more sense than either o
84 tommy767 : The other issue is even if AA and US merged, they would still be so weak in Asia compared to DL and UA. And we all know that Asia made DL and UA that
85 bobloblaw : DL wants a DFW hub with NO competition, not a DFW hub where they have 20% and AA has 70%.
86 STT757 : There are no options for AA (or a new company that included AA) to grow in Asia other than organically.
87 BoeingGuy : So would AS's customers, the regions they serve, AS's shareholders and everyone else. WN would sure gain from this though. Still, I'm sure there are
88 azstar : Ha Ha. Very funny. A bankrupt airline acquiring F9 or VX, two perpetual money losers!
89 tommy767 : Well, finally a PHX-NRT could be done. And that's about it. A merger with US would make them stronger at the TATL market from JFK, PHL, and CLT. It w
90 JDAirCEO : GREAT POST... honestly the age range of many of the posters on here keeps me from commenting. I'd rather not have an adult conversation about mergers
91 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : Yes, buying an airline with the 2nd best hub on the west coast so said airline can go to Asia, the place to be growing to right now, is a complete du
92 Post contains images PHX787 : US could do this w/o a merger. They're getting a bunch of 330s soon. If anything else the 350 could do it. Or NH could start the ever-rumored 787 ser
93 BoeingGuy : Why does an airline have to buy AS to expand their network to Asia? Have you checked AS's route map lately? You apparently didn't read or understand
94 ripcordd : AA was dying until BK after they will emerge lean loads of new planes and some of the cheapest labor out there. The best case would be a B6/AS/AA tie
95 AirCalSNA : I haven't and still haven't forgiven AA!
96 ykaops : IMHO Delta will win taking over AA.. keep the name 'American' and operate it as a seperate entity serving the Lower 48, Puerto Rico and Alaska destina
97 avek00 : There's no need for slots to be taken from JFK except for perhaps a small number during peak traffic hours. Remember, unlike EWR, JFK is actually und
98 AAExecPlat : Honestly...some of you here live in fantasy land....DL or UA acquiring AA? Dream on.
99 milemaster : I think we can immediately put to rest the AS, F9, and VX options with 100% confidence. What we are witnessing is an exercise of due diligence to asse
100 avek00 : A 2-3 way breakup scenario between, say, DL/UA/US is entirely plausible, but highly unlikely, as it'd be the most expensive and complex option for th
101 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : Have you? SEA is a great place to compete with UAL's SFO hub. Now, get a AS route map and put it on top of a DL or AA route map. No, You don't unders
102 DeltaL1011man : There is no need for slots to be taken period. But I pretty much promise some LCC will get the gift of a good hand full of peak time JFK slots. not o
103 mogandoCI : Herein lies the problem : 1. If post-BK AA has cheaper labor than B6/AS, the 3-way merger would demand the highest wages among the existing contracts
104 BoeingGuy : AA has feed. They have a great code share arrangement with AS without the hassles of a merger and getting a bunch of routes they don't want. Yeah, and
105 DeltaL1011man : yes, DFW/ORD/JFK flights. (MIA?) those are the only ones they have complete control over. and have no control of AS, its routes or its schedule. and
106 BoeingGuy : Uh, AA had corportate contracts in SEA and gave up much of that business. They had lucrative Microsoft and Boeing business and gave almost all of it
107 SeeTheWorld : That's just wrong ... US has a huge connecting complex in PHL, which has a huge O&D market ... DCA is a gold mine, and they own CLT, which is als
108 SeeTheWorld : First, the references to Reno Air, AirCal, etc. are outdated. The airline industry has evolved so much since then that the comparisons are irrelevant.
109 HPRamper : Not to mention this AA-buying-someone business is just a smokescreen, and the only real way to look at this is "how will AA benefit someone else." Oh
110 TWA85 : Agreed! AA does not need to choose a merger partner based on what will make them the largest. if AA does in fact merge with another airline in the fu
111 william : No its not, AA bought those carriers and eventually shuttered their routes and grounded or sold off their aircraft. Its very relevant, some here are
112 Post contains links AA767400 : By folks you mean the FAs - because it was TW's union (IAM) who agreed to them being stapled by then APFA president John Ward. Current APFA president
113 bayareablue : How's this scenario: AA is bought by Alaska Air Group (AAG)...but continues to operationally run as AA and is a sister company, just like QX runs now.
114 bobloblaw : It would be a massive financial drain on Alaska.
115 Post contains images ER757 : Exactly what I was thinking I'll second that!! Maybe they shouldn't have de-hubbed it in the first place then..... Best line of the day - LMAO!
116 Post contains images EA CO AS : It's ultimately an ego thing for them; they've been masters of their own destiny forever, and this is their last, desperate attempt at making it appe
117 SeeTheWorld : Pre-911 and post-911 are such different times that suggesting that AA would shutter a carrier they merge with is a false comparison. In addition, AA
118 chepos : I think the point William is trying to make is that in the crazy event AA decides to go on a shopping spree (doubtful) for an airline and they succee
119 seatback : Here's the reality: VX: AA gains a large presence in SFO (where AA has may loyal ff followers). They also get 40 or so new Airbuses plus delivery opti
120 SeeTheWorld : Well, fine, but I don't think it's very realistic or a powerful point .... it's a false comparison.
121 SeeTheWorld : I'm going to repeat this ... Alaska is in no danger of being bought by anyone ... Their balance sheet and cash situation would make any hostile takeo
122 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Wasn't that Einstein's definition on insanity?
123 penguins : VX has had only on profitable quarter to date. I think they should get their act together before they start merging with failing airlines which won't
124 BoeingGuy : It's not a false comparison at all. While many things in the world unfortunately changed at 9/11, I don't see how magically now a major carrier buyin
125 mogandoCI : These are all the pros of each merger partner ... but what about the cons ?
126 boeing773ER : It's not that US/AA overlap completely, but certain hubs serve the same purpose for each airline. To US PHL is AA's JFK; the European gateway. Then L
127 Post contains images MountainFlyer : DL will raise Cain before they let AA have AS and move into SEA. Likey UA would too as they have good operations there too. DL already has well estab
128 AADC10 : I still think the only airline that is really interested is US. Doug Parker would love nothing better than to return to AA as its CEO and US will stru
129 Post contains images milemaster : What is this? I don't even.. . nevermind.
130 HPRamper : LAX and PHX do not and can not serve the same purpose no matter how hard AA wants to spin the cornerstone strategy. LAX is in a terrible position to
131 etops1 : Alaska has responded to AA with basically a No Thank You .
132 seatback : Would it be correct to say that a DFW hub is more valuable than an ATL hub (I don't know, just asking the question?) Ok the cons: VX: An airline that
133 Flighty : AA is not eligible to merge with DL or UA. Out of bounds from antitrust perspective. AA and US are probably eligible but that is not a sure thing. DL
134 LAXdude1023 : I dont think they are really comparable to one another. ATL would probably be more valuble overall because of its geography. From a local market O&am
135 XT6Wagon : Can I just say that I really really hope that WN puts in a bid, even if its just to troll all the haters. I'd certainly love to see the look on the DF
136 Post contains images commavia : Fair point. Both AA and USAirways are sitting on plenty of LGA slots that could be better used. Case in point: in the current schedule, excluding the
137 HiFlyerAS : If HP, a failing airline themselves, could swing the purchase of US then an airline with the balance sheet of AS certainly could make a successful off
138 Post contains links chepos : AS has stated that at the moment they plan to remain as a solo entity. Nothing too surprising I must say. http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...ds-to
139 EricR : OK. This does not make sense. You say that AA needs greater international reach, yet you believe that part of the solution is for them to give up MIA
140 NC1844v : Good Lord, when will it end? Why wont AA just talk with US and be done with this bull? As long as the AA name stay's I don't see why American Would be
141 avek00 : No US airline merger is inherently "out of bounds" on antitrust grounds absent greater knowledge as to the structure of a proposed transaction and th
142 klkla : This would be Delta's only way of getting their feet in the door. If US couldn't afford AA by itself Delta could offer cash for the MIA hub and the J
143 IndustryInsider : slvrblt, Um, no. There is a market specific interline agreement between B6 and AA at both JFK and BOS; however there is no codeshare agreement. If yo
144 EricR : Comparing AS, HA, B6, and NK to AA is like comparing apples to oranges. The business models of AS, HA (both niche regional players) and B6, NK (both
145 lucky777 : Complete and utter hogwash. As B6, NK, HA, AS and formerly Airtran have proven....you needn't be an 800 pound gorilla in order to have a viable airli
146 Post contains images flyguy89 : People seem to have short memories. Prior to this fairly recent merger frenzy AA was the largest airline in the world and, even after all these merge
147 EA CO AS : Which word didn't you understand?
148 2travel2know2 : What about AA and LATAM? AA OneWorld friends BA and IB are together in Europe. Once upon a time Eastern, Continental and SK used to be in the same air
149 commavia : Yeah those numbers USAirways was peddling seemed suspect. Not sure what ground rules and assumptions they are using to define "central," nor how they
150 HPRamper : That anecdote was all about right-sizing the aircraft out of ORD and finally expanding instead of shrinking - as AA has been gradually doing at ORD f
151 commavia : Perhaps, although, in fairness, "right-sizing the aircraft out of ORD" and using that optimized fleet to expand that hub is something AA could and wo
152 Post contains links EricR : Then why has LCC been pushing so hard for a merger partner for the past 5ish years? Also, as I mentioned above, B6, NK, etc. have different business
153 Post contains images einsteinboricua : That would have been something, though odds are very slim, even more so after the WN/FL merger. Sorry...I was referring to gates.
154 lucky777 : [quote=EricR,reply=152]The only thing I can think of is that UA/DL/WN are all very close to each other in terms of market share. The AA/US merger push
155 commavia : True. But many - myself included - would argue that such a capacity "right-sizing" is inevitable for the two airlines anyway, whether both companies
156 EricR : And to add to this thought, DL is fine tuning its hubs in this region. Both MEM and CVG continue to see cuts. Also, I think we can expect UA to due s
157 Post contains images point2point : After going thru all of these posts, the one thing about F9 is that it is going to be "for sale" per se. There's even a sign hanging out around its ne
158 HPRamper : AA doesn't have the planes, yet. Scope is great but if the planes are all still on back order it doesn't much help. If US and AA tie up the consensus
159 Post contains links LAXintl : CEO Horton gave an interview discussing strategic alternatives the company is ready to consider. Horton talks about American Airlines’ interest in
160 Post contains links miaami : I find it interesting that they didn't ask Mr. Horton about the reports that he and other execuatives would stand to gain millions of dollars if AMR
161 seatback : This entire endevour by US, especially buying some of AA's debt is indicative of how badly US needs this merger to happen, even though Paker says "US
162 HPRamper : US doesn't "need" to merge, in my opinion. Parker wants to run one of the big players though, and this would create the biggest player by most metric
163 chepos : God help whomever Tom Horton gets his hands on, he would be dismantling hubs/focus cities and laying people off in a heartbeat. Just like AA has done
164 EricR : US may not "need" to merge, but in lieu of a merger, they need to come up with some type of strategy. Status quo will not work for them in the long t
165 HPRamper : Overall I largely agree with your points. However, if this merger/takeover doesn't happen, US badly needs its pilots to come to some sort of agreemen
166 LAXdude1023 : Your crystal ball told you this did it? Or have you been able to learn all that from the few months he has been in charge?
167 chepos : History tells us this, whether you want to believe differently that is entirely up to you. Look at the airlines AA has merged with in the past, there
168 EricR : Hopefully we never see AA flying MCO to PSE/BQN/BOG/SJO/SDQ. This would be a sign of complete mismanagement. They have a hub down the road in MIA to
169 chepos : I was just taking a random example of routes AA would automatically drop if they were to acquire B6, making the point of them dismantling competitors
170 LAXdude1023 : Ironic since Doug Parker was a part of the AA regime when some of that was going on.
171 Post contains images commavia : True, though I don't think AA would have too much trouble getting them, nor that they would have to wait all that long. Probably true, although - not
172 AAplat4life : A more intriguing question is not who AA might merge with, but who might US merge with if a deal with AA is not going to happen? It seems to me that A
173 HPRamper : I don't have any faith that US would keep the AS Alaska and intra-West Coast route structure intact any more than I believe the other big players wou
174 AAplat4life : So is the conclusion that the Alaska-intra-West Coast route structure simply is unworkable/unprofitable for a network carrier? Right now, with Southw
175 HPRamper : It might not be very exciting, but it would give US a legitimate presence again in NYC, after they basically gave up on LGA. With JFK slots to work w
176 Flighty : As yields climb and climb, US and other players are crying all the way to the bank. They could go many years like this. Their nonstop network may not
177 DTWPurserBoy : Unfortunately, I see this as the sum of the parts being greater than the sum of the whole. AA could chopped for parts a la Pan Am. DL would certainly
178 commavia : If you are implying that this is something AA somehow lacks, I strongly disagree. Financial planning is not AA's problem. What AA needs - and has nee
179 XT6Wagon : I think right now that there is many fingers in that pie, margins are low even when your not fighting 3 other carriers, and its not worth the capital
180 Post contains links LAXintl : IAG's Willie Walsh seems to see value in a merger with US Airways. He also says IAG would consider an investment into a future AA. American’s onewor
181 etops1 : And yet people on this board think that a merger with AA and US has no merit or value . You guys know nothing ..
182 DeltaMD90 : I don't think having merit or value is in question, it's whether the pros outweigh the cons or not...
183 FlyASAGuy2005 : Am I the only one that things this whole thing's has turned into a circus act? I mean first we have American file BK. Then the rumors start flying tha
184 VS11 : I wouldn't say desperation but more like identity crisis. They need to come up with a clear vision and a winning strategy. Their current plan seems t
185 cjpark : Can I just say that I really really hope that WN puts in a bid, even if its just to troll all the haters. I'd certainly love to see the look on the DF
186 Vctony : Isn't AA working on (1) and (2) and wouldn't BK result in (3)? A standalone AA with the competitive union contracts and the new 738s, A319s, A321s, A
187 bobnwa : Are you saying it is an AA corporate policy or crew policy to not share vans? Does you seeing it happen once establish it as the norm?
188 flyfree727 : On a daily basis AA crews ride with hotel guests AND other airline crews to/from hotels and airports on hotel shuttles and city airport/hotel shuttle
189 Post contains links LAXintl : AA Horton in interview confirms they sent out multiple NDA to potential partners. Horton also says it should not take to long to review merger options
190 HPRamper : Of course not, since US is the only airline that wants to merge with AA.
191 seatback : What ax do you have to grind with AA?? This is a silly comment. If you have seen this behavior, then I guarantee you will see this at UA and DL. One
192 EA CO AS : Kind of a really, really, REALLY big freaking "IF" there, isn't it?
193 Post contains links LAXintl : Well according to this AMR has its eyes on JetBlue. Unsubstantiated rumor time: Is JetBlue Airways the No. 1 target of American Airlines? http://aviat
194 HPRamper : This is completely true. In fact, the airline I've experienced to be more guilty of this than AA is WN. Run into MANY an arrogant WN crew in my day,
195 LAXdude1023 : This I agree with. B6 and AS have made it clear that they are not interested in merging.
196 chepos : Ay caramba, best of luck to B6 employees if Horton gets his hands on them. Regards, Chepos
197 seatback : If you believe the blog post, B6 executives have been seen at AA HQ in July. What B6 says in public and what is actually happening may be two separat
198 LAXintl : Since when does that matter ? Merger's dont always mean both boards approve a transaction. AA could go directly and make an offer to stock holders, o
199 Post contains links Blueman87 : yes they do check http://www.jetblue.com/wherewejet/?intcmp=hd_wherewejet they in the partners check further into press release's
200 flyby519 : Find me a city pair operated by jetblue but with an AA code
201 IndustryInsider : You obviously don't know what a code share agreement is. While the "partnership" extends to the the accrual of frequent flyer points, it is only a li
202 staralliance85 : If AA is smart, they will stay away from US!! AA is trying their best to improve their product and their customer service. We all see what a disaster
203 STT757 : AA is several times larger than B6, and much more senior. AA has 87,000+ employees and B6 has 12,000, who's culture is going to win out? Senior staff
204 chepos : So you mean to tell me that if AA purchases B6 the experience at AA all across the board will be very similar to that of B6 today? Yeah, I don't know
205 STT757 : Exactly, B6 is 12 years old. However the majority of their employees probably have five years or less with the airline. There's no good scenario for
206 Corinthians : Unless you have access to both US and B6's books, you can't make statements like that. That's the problem with this website - too many uninformed peo
207 STT757 : Thus I used the term "Speculate". I speculated CLT is more profitable for US than JFK would be for AA.[Edited 2012-08-04 09:16:30]
208 flyby519 : I disagree. I am a junior frontline employee at B6 and see AA's staff as much more senior and ready to retire. That will create a huge vacuum of open
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