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SkyWest Enters Agreement To Purchase 100 MRJs  
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6012 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18205 times:

Over the past few months, bits and pieces of an inevidable purchase have been leaking out via the aviation news media. First was that they were looking at several aircraft. Then there was the announcement of a multi-billion dollar loan guarantee. Today, those subtle hints finally come to fruition.


http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rlines-commits-to-100-mrjs-374254/

More:

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engine...42-billion-agreement-100-mrjs-0711

[Edited 2012-07-11 07:28:25]


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85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedcaviation From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18180 times:

Big blow to Bombardier and Embraer.

User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18146 times:

Interesting. Why MRJ's instead of E190s?


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18005 times:

At the time of posting, I did not realize that this announcement was in any way related to Farnborough. Mods, do as you please.


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User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18008 times:

How many seats does an MRJ 90 have in a two class layout? I was thinking they might be preparing for the new DL contract that will allow additional 76-seat flying by regional carriers.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17805 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
Interesting. Why MRJ's instead of E190s?

I'd say the reason is scope related. The E190 has been controversial with pilots because it can hold over 100 seats. The CRJ-900 cannot and has been more popular, particularly in a two class config. It appears to me that this A/C is more akin to a CRJ-900. The MTOW is also akin to the CRJ-900 and about 15% less than the E190.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7138 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 17748 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
How many seats does an MRJ 90 have in a two class layout? I was thinking they might be preparing for the new DL contract that will allow additional 76-seat flying by regional carriers.

It appears it could have around 84 to 86 seats in a two class. The site says 86-96 with 92 being typical.

I'm assuming this is a 2x2 config interior and a 1x2 premium class.


User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17636 times:
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Mitsubishi appears to have designed their cabin configurations around an ultra-slimline seat that allows 29" pitch to feel like 31" pitch. If an airline chose to go with a more conventional pitch and 3 cabin (F, Y+, Y) arrangement, it looks like the MRJ90 could be made to fit 76 passengers. That said, it is 14 ft. longer than an E175 so there would be a fair amount of wasted space.

I'm wondering if the regional carriers are planning to launch more branded operations, since it's doubtful any mainline contracts will allow these aircraft to be used to their full potential. This is moreso the case with Republic and their C-Series order, which was going to be used for Frontier but now isn't.


User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17537 times:

The fact that Skywest went with a relatively newcomer in the market tells you they got a niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice price on the order that Bombardier and Embraer couldn't touch.This RJ market in one fell swoop just jumped from two to three.

As Scooby would say............."Woah, woah".


User currently onlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 17251 times:

The MRJ is smaller and lighter than the 190 series and is also likely to burn much less fuel. So if you don't need the additional capabilities of the Embraer. Then The MRJ can look very attractive.

User currently offlineClipper136 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 318 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 17070 times:

Quoting timf (Reply 7):
That said, it is 14 ft. longer than an E175 so there would be a fair amount of wasted space.



The EMB175 has under floor cargo bins. The MRJ does not. It has a bin at the rear, like a CRJ or ERJ, so length of aircraft is not an indicator of available cabin space.


User currently offlineGEG2RAP From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16851 times:

Who are they gonna fly them for? Is DL and UA down with this?

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16814 times:

Congrats to OO and Mitsubishi!  

(as a Japan fanboy this is huge for me   )



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16807 times:

Quoting GEG2RAP (Reply 11):
Who are they gonna fly them for? Is DL and UA down with this?

If SkyWest can configure them to 76 seats, then they could fly for DL Connection. UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 16702 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.

Not neccesarily. The MRJ-70 can have 8 coach seats removed, have first class inserted, and stretch some rows with E+, and have it near-identical to the E-170.



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User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16667 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14):
Not neccesarily. The MRJ-70 can have 8 coach seats removed, have first class inserted, and stretch some rows with E+, and have it near-identical to the E-170.

Then it'd fit in with the existing CR7 fleet as well with F and Ex-plus.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16659 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14):

Not neccesarily. The MRJ-70 can have 8 coach seats removed, have first class inserted, and stretch some rows with E+, and have it near-identical to the E-170.

The order is for the MRJ 90, not the MRJ 70. Of course, this order doesn't rule out an MRJ 70 order for UA Express in the future.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5503 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16607 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14):
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.
Not neccesarily. The MRJ-70 can have 8 coach seats removed, have first class inserted, and stretch some rows with E+, and have it near-identical to the E-170.

IIRC, Trans States Airlines has the MRJ on firm order as well. So potentially UA and DL have a couple of options to bid on their business. Who knows, maybe a few will make it into AlaskaSkyWest service?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5026 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16563 times:

Wow, did not see that coming! Nice looking airplane, and nice to see OO looking ahead. Maybe OO is looking at 2017, and that the clauses in the seat contracts might change by then?


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16499 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 16):
The order is for the MRJ 90, not the MRJ 70

I've not seen anything that definitively points to one sub-type or the other. They've all just said 'MRJ.' However, I did see one that says, "Could purchase either MRJ70 or MRJ90 aircraft."

Of course, since nothing is truly set in stone yet, it could still swing either way.



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User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16297 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 19):

I've not seen anything that definitively points to one sub-type or the other. They've all just said 'MRJ.' However, I did see one that says, "Could purchase either MRJ70 or MRJ90 aircraft."

Of course, since nothing is truly set in stone yet, it could still swing either way.

The FlightGlobal article says the order is for MRJ 90s. I don't know how accurate is that article, though.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 16032 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
If SkyWest can configure them to 76 seats, then they could fly for DL Connection. UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.


That is true about United, however 2017 is still a long ways out and a lot can happen in regards to contract negotiations, So I wouldn't count out UA quite yet!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 872 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 22):
That is true about United, however 2017 is still a long ways out and a lot can happen in regards to contract negotiations, So I wouldn't count out UA quite yet!

This order is likely to increase the resolve to hold the line on Scope by UA pilots. They haven't forgotten that 1437 UA pilots lost their jobs when they permitted 70 seats RJs (at UA). Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 15728 times:
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Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
Interesting. Why MRJ's instead of E190s?

My guess is SCOPE. Currently no regional can operate E190s for any legacy. The MRJ probably has less gross weight and fewer seats.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 15664 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 24):
My guess is SCOPE. Currently no regional can operate E190s for any legacy. The MRJ probably has less gross weight and fewer seats.

The E-190 seats 98-114 passengers in a one-class layout, while seating up to 94 in a two-class layout. The MRJ 90 seats 92 in a one-class layout, and that is with 29" pitch. I think it is indeed quite possible for the MRJ 90 to meet at least DL's 76-seat scope clause limit if configured in a two-class layout (three if counting Economy Comfort).

[Edited 2012-07-11 11:08:55]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
25 Goldenshield : I don't see why. This is fleet replacement, not fleet addition. And it's not like they had a choice with the 70 seat RJs. The court forced them to.
26 PHLapproach : Some of these frames will be placed with EV. Unsure with how many.
27 Post contains images lightsaber : I'm pleasantly shocked they picked the MRJ. I thought Mitsubishi/Pratt was being talked to for discounts on E-175s or CRJ-900s. Huge blow. The MRJ ne
28 srbmod : This order is significant enough to warrant discussion with its' own thread. This is a huge coup for Mitsubishi, as they have flown under the radar w
29 Post contains links and images planemaker : Bombardier skunked by Skywest Bombardier Inc. officials are not conceding defeat after being skunked Wednesday by Skywest Inc., the largest operator o
30 RDH3E : I would imagine that many of them will be coming back to work in the near future, with the upcoming pilot shortage they'll be coming back in a big wa
31 LAXDESI : As per wikipedia, E175 has 88 seats at 30" pitch. So 90 seats at 29" pitch for E175 is possible, against 92 seats for MRJ-90. MRJ-90 has about 5% more
32 PHX787 : Not to pull it off topic, but besides Republic and a few domestic orders, how many other airlines have ordered the MRJ? Not many, I'm assuming, so th
33 Post contains links PlanesNTrains : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Regional_Jet#Orders Republic is not on the list. -Dave
34 ADent : Right. But if sCo goes with a 70 seat scope they can bring in a bunch of CRJ7s and lay off 1000 sCO pilots in addition to the sUA pilots on furlough.
35 slcdeltarumd11 : The new SLC airport will have the gates for skywest to operate these replacing alot of the CR2s and that is still skywests largest station by departur
36 SSTeve : If Bombardier were simply offering more CR9s, I can see why Skywest might decide to try something newer.
37 Post contains images flyhossd : My reference was from an assumption that the MRJs would be equipped with greater than 70 seats. IF that is the case, then these aircraft would pose a
38 Goldenshield : If they didn't approve it, the court was going to do it anyway. As for UA taking their pensions, they can't blame the regionals for taking away the p
39 toltommy : So the senior guys threw the junior ones under the bus, and then blame the company for layoffs? And they say denial is just a river in Egypt. Maybe t
40 PlanesNTrains : I agree, but the fact that this seems so elusive tells me that it's easier said than done. In my perfect world, everyone from the B1900 to the A380 w
41 flyhossd : It seems that you both missed the point I was trying to make. It's not what the airline management wants or thinks or what the customers what - it's
42 toltommy : As much talk as there is of "union solidarity", there isn't any. The senior half of the group agreed to a contract that threw 1437 union brothers on
43 jolau1701 : Can't resist...... "Look, Mom, the safety instructions are written in haiku. Fasten seat belts tight. Your seat cushions float gently. Headsets, five
44 Post contains images PHX787 : my bad, got that mixed up with the C series
45 SSTeve : If we're being brutally honest, might as well say that the senior pilots also allowed United to go after lower labor costs than Southwest... strange
46 Infiniti329 : Is this order for OO to operate themselves or EV as well?
47 Goldenshield : From what I understand, it's to be 50-50. However, that could change depending on the results/repercussions of the next the EV pilot contract.
48 kingcavalier : I received a copy of a SkyWest memo dated July 11, 2012 which reads - "These 100 aircraft would be replacement aircraft for current ExpressJet and Sky
49 lightsaber : That implies lease expiration on current aircraft. Is that true for SkyWest? There are plenty of military pilots about to find out what 'budget cuts'
50 Goldenshield : These planes have been flying for so long that any long-term leases are now long over with. Now, the leases are on a 2-3 year contract cycle basis, s
51 RDH3E : I always respect your opinion, but when I think about this I can't help but think "everything has a price". Whether it be simply more $ per hour, or
52 PHX787 : Question: are these going to be exclusively operated by DL connection, or would they be split between DL and UA?
53 flyhossd : There aren't nearly enough military pilots - in total - to replace the pilots retiring at age 65. It's already started at the regional pilot level. J
54 DeltaL1011man : ha. Its ALPA. I fully expect a cave of scope. Which makes me think they are hedging there bets and don't have a home for them yet. Delta's TA will al
55 Goldenshield : You, him, and everyone else on that plane don't know that. What you say is just pure conjecture. There could be a multitude of reasons as to why ther
56 Post contains images RDH3E : Can't you just see the possibilities!
57 ual777 : The military does not have that many fixed-wing pilots. Further, many do not even want to fly for the airlines. As of right now the regionals are str
58 queb : Not really: All numbers in NM MRJ70STD ----- MRJ70ER ----- MRJ70LR ---- 820 --------- 1470 ---------1820 CRJ700STD --- CRJ700ER (5 tonnes lighter MTO
59 Post contains links queb : Here's the official PR from MHI: Mitsubishi Aircraft Corporation and SkyWest, Inc., the holding company for the two regional air carriers who conduct
60 Goldenshield : Those numbers are assuming full payload with all 70/90 seats and bags filled. These won't be equipped as such. Thus, the planes could actually carry
61 flyhossd : Actually, "we" (he and I) do know that. It was told to him by one of the employees and I was able to verify it through a solid contact at that carrie
62 flyhossd : Well stated, but I think that UA will be the exception (Delta ALPA certainly did "cave" IMHO). However, the UA pilots haven't forgotten what happened
63 ikramerica : Please. The need is not to replace 110 seaters with 2 50 seaters like it was in the past days of low fuel prices. The need is to replace inefficient
64 slcdeltarumd11 : Exactly. Instead of flying 3x CRJ-200 in the future we will see 2xMRJ etc on a route just a rough example. That is clearly what these will be used fo
65 Post contains links Goldenshield : This just came through the wires: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...der-kicking-off-fleet-renewal.html
66 RDH3E : Perhaps, but I do honestly believe that at this point more 70's (to fill on the s-CO side) would not cost any mainline jobs. For one thing, the compa
67 ikramerica : The scope clause could be written so that it fixes the express fleet at a certain capacity, regardless of aircraft size. Any additions to the express
68 RDH3E : On the s-UA side that does exist. Express block hours are not allowed to exceed ML block hours, and there is also an ASM measure as well.
69 ikramerica : I know, but AFAIK, the new joint group wants to scrap that, as they "gave up" something and want it back. My point is, it aint coming back. It's gone
70 Post contains images RDH3E : I would just say that it is totally reasonable for the pilots to want protections, and they deserve that consideration. But those protections need to
71 Post contains links flyhossd : So something, once conceded, can't be "re-taken?" I don't necessarily agree and can think of examples. For example, IIRC, as s-CO the pilot crew rest
72 RDH3E : The world is a different place than it was back then and so is the airline industry. I won't comment on the Colgan incident specifically, but have th
73 lightsaber : This needs to be repeated. Any airline that doesn't replace their 50 seaters by 2020 is going to be out of those markets. Most markets that see the R
74 flyhossd : I'll say this again. There aren't enough military pilots - IN TOTAL - to replace all the pilots that will be forced into retirement soon. As I recall
75 Post contains links LAXDESI : Aviation week article on the MRJ order suggests that order is subject to revision depending on how scope clauses shake out. http://www.aviationweek.co
76 mayor : You keep saying that, but DL's management continually says that the 717s will be used to replace some of the regional flying. Sounds to me like MORE
77 planemaker : There is still a lot of flux in the industry. If there is a shortage then it means that furloughed pilots now flying at foreign carriers will get to
78 mayor : I think there was more a shortage of flying jobs (domestically) than there was a shortage of pilots. When my son-in-law was looking for a job after h
79 planemaker : Plus, it seems that people forget that university programs and flight schools are still operating (although numbers have tailed off from previous yea
80 Post contains links lightsaber : Thank you. Interesting way to run a business. But with the nature of 50 seater leases, the airlines should be able to get favorable terms. No surpris
81 Post contains links lightsaber : Ok, so there seems to be a pilot shortage in Asia. Hasn't there been for a while? "Lee Moak, president of the pilots union, said he doubts a pilot sho
82 crj900lr : I believe the only airline that is gonna benifit from the extra revenue is the mainline carrier for which the regional is flying for. Most if not all
83 Goldenshield : That's how it's supposed to work, and there's usually a nice profit margin involved, too. I mean, what's the point of providing a service if there wa
84 mayor : And that wage problem seems to be within the U.S. There are many foreign carriers (mostly Asian) that are looking for pilots and are willing to give
85 Post contains images planemaker : By then we'll have some more consolidation and rationalization to alleviate that "shortage"... and then we'll start to have SP cargo ops and some new
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