Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5490 posts, RR: 13 Posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16751 times:
Over the past few months, bits and pieces of an inevidable purchase have been leaking out via the aviation news media. First was that they were looking at several aircraft. Then there was the announcement of a multi-billion dollar loan guarantee. Today, those subtle hints finally come to fruition.
I'd say the reason is scope related. The E190 has been controversial with pilots because it can hold over 100 seats. The CRJ-900 cannot and has been more popular, particularly in a two class config. It appears to me that this A/C is more akin to a CRJ-900. The MTOW is also akin to the CRJ-900 and about 15% less than the E190.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6159 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16294 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4): How many seats does an MRJ 90 have in a two class layout? I was thinking they might be preparing for the new DL contract that will allow additional 76-seat flying by regional carriers.
It appears it could have around 84 to 86 seats in a two class. The site says 86-96 with 92 being typical.
I'm assuming this is a 2x2 config interior and a 1x2 premium class.
timf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 954 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16182 times:
Mitsubishi appears to have designed their cabin configurations around an ultra-slimline seat that allows 29" pitch to feel like 31" pitch. If an airline chose to go with a more conventional pitch and 3 cabin (F, Y+, Y) arrangement, it looks like the MRJ90 could be made to fit 76 passengers. That said, it is 14 ft. longer than an E175 so there would be a fair amount of wasted space.
I'm wondering if the regional carriers are planning to launch more branded operations, since it's doubtful any mainline contracts will allow these aircraft to be used to their full potential. This is moreso the case with Republic and their C-Series order, which was going to be used for Frontier but now isn't.
william From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1141 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 16083 times:
The fact that Skywest went with a relatively newcomer in the market tells you they got a niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice price on the order that Bombardier and Embraer couldn't touch.This RJ market in one fell swoop just jumped from two to three.
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4576 posts, RR: 28 Reply 17, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 15153 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 14): Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.
Not neccesarily. The MRJ-70 can have 8 coach seats removed, have first class inserted, and stretch some rows with E+, and have it near-identical to the E-170.
IIRC, Trans States Airlines has the MRJ on firm order as well. So potentially UA and DL have a couple of options to bid on their business. Who knows, maybe a few will make it into AlaskaSkyWest service?
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14843 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 19):
I've not seen anything that definitively points to one sub-type or the other. They've all just said 'MRJ.' However, I did see one that says, "Could purchase either MRJ70 or MRJ90 aircraft."
Of course, since nothing is truly set in stone yet, it could still swing either way.
The FlightGlobal article says the order is for MRJ 90s. I don't know how accurate is that article, though.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
cbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1512 posts, RR: 6 Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14578 times:
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13): If SkyWest can configure them to 76 seats, then they could fly for DL Connection. UA's scope clause, however, requires mainline pilots to fly 76 seaters, so UA Express is unlikely.
That is true about United, however 2017 is still a long ways out and a lot can happen in regards to contract negotiations, So I wouldn't count out UA quite yet!
flyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 552 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14309 times:
Quoting cbphoto (Reply 22): That is true about United, however 2017 is still a long ways out and a lot can happen in regards to contract negotiations, So I wouldn't count out UA quite yet!
This order is likely to increase the resolve to hold the line on Scope by UA pilots. They haven't forgotten that 1437 UA pilots lost their jobs when they permitted 70 seats RJs (at UA). Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 5820 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 14210 times:
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 24): My guess is SCOPE. Currently no regional can operate E190s for any legacy. The MRJ probably has less gross weight and fewer seats.
The E-190 seats 98-114 passengers in a one-class layout, while seating up to 94 in a two-class layout. The MRJ 90 seats 92 in a one-class layout, and that is with 29" pitch. I think it is indeed quite possible for the MRJ 90 to meet at least DL's 76-seat scope clause limit if configured in a two-class layout (three if counting Economy Comfort).
[Edited 2012-07-11 11:08:55]
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
25 Goldenshield: I don't see why. This is fleet replacement, not fleet addition. And it's not like they had a choice with the 70 seat RJs. The court forced them to.
26 PHLapproach: Some of these frames will be placed with EV. Unsure with how many.
27 lightsaber: I'm pleasantly shocked they picked the MRJ. I thought Mitsubishi/Pratt was being talked to for discounts on E-175s or CRJ-900s. Huge blow. The MRJ ne
28 srbmod: This order is significant enough to warrant discussion with its' own thread. This is a huge coup for Mitsubishi, as they have flown under the radar w
29 planemaker: Bombardier skunked by Skywest Bombardier Inc. officials are not conceding defeat after being skunked Wednesday by Skywest Inc., the largest operator o
30 RDH3E: I would imagine that many of them will be coming back to work in the near future, with the upcoming pilot shortage they'll be coming back in a big wa
31 LAXDESI: As per wikipedia, E175 has 88 seats at 30" pitch. So 90 seats at 29" pitch for E175 is possible, against 92 seats for MRJ-90. MRJ-90 has about 5% more
32 PHX787: Not to pull it off topic, but besides Republic and a few domestic orders, how many other airlines have ordered the MRJ? Not many, I'm assuming, so th
33 PlanesNTrains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Regional_Jet#Orders Republic is not on the list. -Dave
34 ADent: Right. But if sCo goes with a 70 seat scope they can bring in a bunch of CRJ7s and lay off 1000 sCO pilots in addition to the sUA pilots on furlough.
35 slcdeltarumd11: The new SLC airport will have the gates for skywest to operate these replacing alot of the CR2s and that is still skywests largest station by departur
36 SSTeve: If Bombardier were simply offering more CR9s, I can see why Skywest might decide to try something newer.
37 flyhossd: My reference was from an assumption that the MRJs would be equipped with greater than 70 seats. IF that is the case, then these aircraft would pose a
38 Goldenshield: If they didn't approve it, the court was going to do it anyway. As for UA taking their pensions, they can't blame the regionals for taking away the p
39 toltommy: So the senior guys threw the junior ones under the bus, and then blame the company for layoffs? And they say denial is just a river in Egypt. Maybe t
40 PlanesNTrains: I agree, but the fact that this seems so elusive tells me that it's easier said than done. In my perfect world, everyone from the B1900 to the A380 w
41 flyhossd: It seems that you both missed the point I was trying to make. It's not what the airline management wants or thinks or what the customers what - it's
42 toltommy: As much talk as there is of "union solidarity", there isn't any. The senior half of the group agreed to a contract that threw 1437 union brothers on
43 jolau1701: Can't resist...... "Look, Mom, the safety instructions are written in haiku. Fasten seat belts tight. Your seat cushions float gently. Headsets, five
44 PHX787: my bad, got that mixed up with the C series
45 SSTeve: If we're being brutally honest, might as well say that the senior pilots also allowed United to go after lower labor costs than Southwest... strange
46 Infiniti329: Is this order for OO to operate themselves or EV as well?
47 Goldenshield: From what I understand, it's to be 50-50. However, that could change depending on the results/repercussions of the next the EV pilot contract.
48 kingcavalier: I received a copy of a SkyWest memo dated July 11, 2012 which reads - "These 100 aircraft would be replacement aircraft for current ExpressJet and Sky
49 lightsaber: That implies lease expiration on current aircraft. Is that true for SkyWest? There are plenty of military pilots about to find out what 'budget cuts'
50 Goldenshield: These planes have been flying for so long that any long-term leases are now long over with. Now, the leases are on a 2-3 year contract cycle basis, s
51 RDH3E: I always respect your opinion, but when I think about this I can't help but think "everything has a price". Whether it be simply more $ per hour, or
52 PHX787: Question: are these going to be exclusively operated by DL connection, or would they be split between DL and UA?
53 flyhossd: There aren't nearly enough military pilots - in total - to replace the pilots retiring at age 65. It's already started at the regional pilot level. J
54 DeltaL1011man: ha. Its ALPA. I fully expect a cave of scope. Which makes me think they are hedging there bets and don't have a home for them yet. Delta's TA will al
55 Goldenshield: You, him, and everyone else on that plane don't know that. What you say is just pure conjecture. There could be a multitude of reasons as to why ther