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New FWA Master Plan: Bigger Terminal And FIS(!)  
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3882 times:

FWA's new master plan was approved by the FAA several months ago, but it hasn't been viewable on the FWA website until now. The previous FWA master plan was from 1999, and a lot has changed at FWA and in the industry since then.

The new master plan takes into account an average growth rate of 1.3% between now and 2030 (from 261,000 enplanements last year to about 338,000 in 2030).

Some highlights of the master plan include:
-A reconfigured terminal access road
-Relocation of the Atlantic Aviation FBO to the airport's west side and demolition of the vacant Mercury hangar to allow for terminal expansion
-Demolition of lower-level Gates 1-4, with four new jetway-enabled gates replacing Gates 1-4
-Moving the rental cars to part of the current short-term parking lot and airport employee parking to the current rental car lot (with the recent addition of Dollar/Thrifty car rental to FWA, I could see this project as one of the first to start)
-An in-terminal US Customs/FIS facility (though they say that this is for WX diversions, do I anticipate flights to Mexico and the Caribbean on G4?)
-Additional post-security dining options and a relocated/expanded TSA checkpoint
-New deicing pads on either the former Atlantic or Mercury sites
-A third baggage claim carousel will be needed by 2020

Other highlights of the master plan:
-FWA is currently at 19% capacity; the current runway layout is well-suited to future growth
-They envision 70-seat RJs at FWA in 2015 (based on DL's B717/76-seater plans, I think we could see them at FWA as soon as next year)
-Also by 2015, they see additional service a la CO to CLE, but on 50/70-seat jets
-By 2020, they see additional G4 service or other mainline-type service (that prediction may have come eight years early with the PGD service)
-They don't see small turboprop service (SF340, etc.) returning to FWA (no mention was made of larger types like the Q400, which I do see in FWA's future)

Summary: http://fwairport.com/images/gallery/...0Plan%20Files/ExecSummaryLoRes.pdf
Full plan (warning: over 200 pages): http://fwairport.com/images/gallery/...0Files/MasterPlanCompleteLoRes.pdf

Thoughts? Comparisons to other airports?

[Edited 2012-07-11 15:25:18]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

If I HAD to guess, I would say the new Customs portion is in anticipation of international diversions. I can't imagine FWA supporting non-stops to the Carribean or Mexico on its own. Otherwise, sounds like a good plan to me! I like all of the ideas honestly. It's not like there isn't room at the airport for growth because there really is!


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Quoting lexy (Reply 1):
I can't imagine FWA supporting non-stops to the Carribean or Mexico on its own.

IIRC, G4 has been telling airports that they serve that have US Customs for cargo to plan for an FIS in their terminal upgrades if they can. FWA has Customs for cargo (a byproduct of the Kitty Hawk hub), so an FIS is a logical next step.

That said, I could see G4 offering once-a-week service from FWA to CUN for sure and possibly MBJ as well (plus the aforementioned WX diversions on other airlines).

[Edited 2012-07-11 15:43:12]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1632 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Since FWA has been my hometown airport for most of my life, I keep abreast of FWA news.

I remember reading (and I still have a copy of) the 2003 master plan, envisioning a parallel runway 5-23, a midfield terminal between the existing and future parallel runways 5-23, and restructuring of I-469 with a new airport exit to the midfield terminal.

This new master plan (2012) expands on the near-term recommended projects (expansion of existing terminal, and other airport projects) in detail, whilst still leaving room for the planned parallel runway and midfield terminal for longer term development.

Fascinating to a former Fort Wayne local!

SmithAir747



I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25789 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3644 times:

FIS for diversions    

How to they expect to staff it? CBP is not going to be sitting around "just in-case" a plane with passengers drops in.

Even call out staffing (if there are even enough agents in the region) will be a time consuming and costly exercise.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17672 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

FWA seats are down 40% or so in the last decade. Don't get crazy--just ask the neighbors down the road in IND.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
-Also by 2015, they see additional service a la CO to CLE, but on 50/70-seat jets

Considering UA just cancelled the SBN-CLE route as of August I wouldn't hold my breath.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

This all sounds nice but seems to me to be a bit of overkill. I've only seen gates 1-4 used for RON's and the B baggage claim used once. I fly out of there twice a week. Don't get me wrong, I think FWA is a mighty fine facility and seems to me to serve the market pretty well. I think that money could be better spent elsewhere.

User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 524 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

I flew out of SBN's new terminal a few months ago. I don't know what the old was like, but the new one sure looks like serious overkill.

User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1632 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

I'm really curious what the projected midfield terminal would look like architecturally, in the era when it eventually does get built (according to the longer-term forecasts of the 2003 and 2012 FWA master plans). The master plans project that it will be placed between the existing 5-23 runway and a future parallel 5-23 runway with its own entrance from I-469.

How much of an improvement would the midfield terminal be over the existing terminal (circa 1950s, renovated several times, expanded in 1996 to 8 gates)? The current terminal is an architectural mixture of 1970s/1980s brick block (the main part, expanded from the original 1950s terminal) and the curved-roof design popular with terminals from the 1990s/2000s.

Being between the existing and future parallel 5-23 runways, how would that space influence the architecture of the projected midfield terminal? Would it be linear, or some other style? I assume it would be a complete terminal with landside and airside structures, rather than a midfield concourse (the real definition of a midfield terminal, if I remember correctly, is a concourse isolated in the middle of the field away from its mother terminal, so FWA's use of the term is a bit of a misnomer).

The architect in me is thinking up designs for it, to fit within the era projected for it to be built (sometime farther down the road than 2020, maybe 2030 or 2040). I envision something with a flowing, organic design, not blocky like today's FWA terminal.  

Or will someone (like me) eventually come up with the teleporter, thereby rendering FWA totally moot?

SmithAir747

[Edited 2012-07-11 22:48:12]


I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3348 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 8):

I flew out of SBN's new terminal a few months ago. I don't know what the old was like, but the new one sure looks like serious overkill.

The old one was just a single room with 6 gates. It was pretty busy sometimes, especially during the holidays and on ND home football games. Other times it was dead. They did go a bit overkill when they did the extension, but you have to build for expansion, not expand and then build.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4607 posts, RR: 23
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Master plans are great, but are mainly just done to fill an FAA requirement if I remember right. Chances of them actually being executed is a whole different story.

Here in OKC they updated the master plan a couple years ago to include a 3rd (well technically 4th but 18/36 is rarely used at all) N/S parallel runway. It also wanted to extend the two existing 17/35s out more than the 9800' they are now. However, the chances for any of those things to happen aren't great, especially with 13/31 available to use as well.

Good forward thinking on FWA's part, but it is sort of mandated. Probably won't see many, if any, of these details actually constructed though.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3144 times:

Quoting boilerla (Reply 6):

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
-Also by 2015, they see additional service a la CO to CLE, but on 50/70-seat jets

Considering UA just cancelled the SBN-CLE route as of August I wouldn't hold my breath.

The service wouldn't have to be to CLE, just similar in terms of frequency and/or capacity.

For UA in particular, DEN, EWR, and IAD all come to mind as potential FWA routes. The Fort Wayne Chamber of Commerce sent out a survey a few months ago regarding whether businesses would use an FWA-IAD flight, and airport officials recently hinted at the possibility of DEN and IAD at their annual media event.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 5):
FWA seats are down 40% or so in the last decade. Don't get crazy--just ask the neighbors down the road in IND.

There is a difference: Unlike IND, FWA didn't build a new billion-dollar terminal right before the biggest recession since the Great Depression.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3104 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
How to they expect to staff it? CBP is not going to be sitting around "just in-case" a plane with passengers drops in.

Even call out staffing (if there are even enough agents in the region) will be a time consuming and costly exercise.

FWA already has a 24-hour CBP facility for cargo. Chances are that they will use staff from that.

But I see a lot more to this FIS facility than just diversions... with things like the long-rumored G4 Mexico/Caribbean service.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25789 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3079 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 13):
FWA already has a 24-hour CBP facility for cargo. Chances are that they will use staff from that.

Easier said an done.

Here in SoCal we have Ontario, the UPS Western sorting hub, and CBP staffing between it and the a single daily international pax flight at ONT are firewalled. CBP pax coverage must drive in from LAX as the job categorization and training are different and cant be cross utilized.

Even when ONT gets diversions, its very very rare pax are deplaned and cleared there. Normally they are held onboard to fly back to LAX, or placed on sealed buses destined to LAX for clearance.

Wish FWA luck, just hopefully they don't waste tax-payer money.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3032 times:

Where's Mayor     


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

I would love to see some new flights, especially FWA-IAD. But given recent trends I would say hanging on to frequency is the most pressing goal. SBN has slowly bled flights, and now is losing CLE. Meanwhile airfares have more than doubled for some destinations. I think UA and DL, both at FWA and SBN, are looking to right size ops so they can make more money on these routes until demand comes back. Unless a SCASD grant can be used, perhaps for IAD service.

Have UA and DL been hurt by G4?


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
Have UA and DL been hurt by G4?

I don't think so.

However, DL has been hurt lately at FWA by Eagle, even in the face of AMR's Chapter 11 filing. Eagle now has a 30% market share as opposed to DL's 40%. Post-NW merger, it was typically DL 46% and Eagle 24% at FWA. UA's market share at FWA has remained steady in the 12-13% range, with G4 (16-18%) and charters (less than 1%) making up the rest.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
But given recent trends I would say hanging on to frequency is the most pressing goal.

FWA-ATL is increasing to 4x daily for the first time since 9/11, and the second FWA-MSP also returns for the summer. Average load factors at FWA in May were 82%, so it looks like FWA needs the frequencies.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 16):
Unless a SCASD grant can be used, perhaps for IAD service.

FWA received SCASD grants twice. The first one was in 2003 for TZ/C8, while the second one was in 2010 for a CUTE system.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

Quoting Flaps (Reply 7):
I think FWA is a mighty fine facility and seems to me to serve the market pretty well. I think that money could be better spent elsewhere.

I use FWA a number of times each year, and I would agree. While not the mainline when I lived there in the 70's, it does seem pretty well served to the major hubs.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 17):
However, DL has been hurt lately at FWA by Eagle, even in the face of AMR's Chapter 11 filing. Eagle now has a 30% market share as opposed to DL's 40%. Post-NW merger, it was typically DL 46% and Eagle 24% at FWA. UA's market share at FWA has remained steady in the 12-13% range, with G4 (16-18%) and charters (less than 1%) making up the rest.

One quick way Eagle could carve another 10-12% market share would be to schedule at least 2 CR7's on the DFW service. If I were them I'd be thinking about that NOW as I strongly suspect that FWA and a number of similar markets will soon have 717 service (mainline) from DL in the not to distant future.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 18):
One quick way Eagle could carve another 10-12% market share would be to schedule at least 2 CR7's on the DFW service. If I were them I'd be thinking about that NOW as I strongly suspect that FWA and a number of similar markets will soon have 717 service (mainline) from DL in the not to distant future.

Two problems with that:
1) Eagle does not have a CR7 pilot base at DFW anymore; all CR7s at DFW are rotated in from the LAX base
2) Eagle is currently capacity-limited when it comes to CR7s at 50 jets (if the new AA pilot contract is approved, this will change, but getting CR7s or E170/5s will not happen overnight)



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 19):
1) Eagle does not have a CR7 pilot base at DFW anymore; all CR7s at DFW are rotated in from the LAX base
2) Eagle is currently capacity-limited when it comes to CR7s at 50 jets (if the new AA pilot contract is approved, this will change, but getting CR7s or E170/5s will not happen overnight)

1..Did not know that. How do they handle ofther DFW CR7 flights? Couldn't FWA (all other issues resolved) be worked into a rotation?

2. Yes, was being somewhat hypothetical..but I would say that is a market that would generate a nice profit with an aircraft with F seats to DFW. Let us hope that the contracts are concluded soon for everyones sake.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 20):
Couldn't FWA (all other issues resolved) be worked into a rotation?

Potentially. Eagle also serves ORD (which is a CR7 pilot base) from FWA, so we could see an ORD-FWA-DFW-FWA-ORD rotation. The problem would be timing the flight for international connections.

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 20):
I would say that is a market that would generate a nice profit with an aircraft with F seats to DFW.

About three-quarters of FWA pax are flying on business, so I think you're right that FWA needs F seats. I feel that the first airline offering F seats from FWA will gain quite a bit of local market share.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2619 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
I anticipate flights to Mexico and the Caribbean on G4?

Charter maybe through Apple Vacations but weekly service? I don't think so.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 22):
Charter maybe through Apple Vacations but weekly service? I don't think so.

Apple Vacations is pushing SY flights via LAN through local travel agents here pretty hard, and two carriers (DL and F9) serve IND-CUN nonstop (which also sees a lot of local passengers).

The demand is there... it's just not going through FWA. And if G4 does scheduled Mexico from FWA or anywhere else, don't underestimate the power of their package bundling.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 948 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 23):
The demand is there... it's just not going through FWA. And if G4 does scheduled Mexico from FWA or anywhere else, don't underestimate the power of their package bundling

Very true but G4 does not serve any city in Mexico or in the Caribbean unless it is a charter. First G4 needs to get some routes to those places and then we can speculate what airports they will serve.



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
25 FWAERJ : For now. G4 has hinted at scheduled international service many times... at this point, it is not a matter of if, but when.
26 dlramp4life : International service in FWA? How big are G4 operations in FWA? I mean it is possible with the 757s but all it is whats ifs right now.
27 FWAERJ : International service in general. 3 year-round cities (PGD, PIE, SFB) and one seasonal city (MYR), all typically served 2x/week with PGD being the ne
28 freakyrat : Quoting michman (Reply 8): I flew out of SBN's new terminal a few months ago. I don't know what the old was like, but the new one sure looks like seri
29 FWAERJ : FWA is also up to 4 ATL flights/day and MSP has gone from 1 to 2 flights/day for the summer. No extra DTW seats from FWA, though. So does FWA, which i
30 ouboy79 : Probably see another 3-4 announced here in the next month or so.
31 FWAERJ : Prior to their collapse, Direct Air served eight cities from PGD, one more than G4 now serves: -AZO (MSA well-served by FL/WN service to RSW at nearb
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