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Private Jet Aircraft Has Crashed At Le Castellet.  
User currently onlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 500 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23348 times:

I just heard a news report of a crash at Le Castellet Airport, located next to the Paul Ricard Circuit, near Marseille. The report stated that three Americans were on board, two men and one woman, and were killed. I have no further info at this time.

[Edited 2012-07-13 08:53:38]

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecomair25 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23397 times:

Link
http://news.sky.com/story/959853/thr...e-dead-after-jet-crashes-in-france


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23261 times:

Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............

Either way, extremely sad and I hope for the best from this.


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23268 times:

Quoting audidudi (Thread starter):
I have no further info at this time.

N823GA - GIV

Not a good result.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23223 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 3):
N823GA - GIV

The article states that it was a Mystere Falcon. Not a Gulfstream.


User currently offlineGulfstream650 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 23119 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 4):

The article states that it was a Mystere Falcon. Not a Gulfstream.

There are conflicting reports although there are plenty of tweets stating that it was the below Gulfstream IV (lovely paint job) which was on a ferry flight. All three victims were US citizens.

Here is the spec sheet of N823GA http://www.ujet.com/fleet/N823GA/n823ga.pdf - noticed that it has been flying quite regularly to France lately so could tie-in to reports that it was not a Falcon.



[Edited 2012-07-13 09:17:19]

[Edited 2012-07-13 09:19:23]

[Edited 2012-07-13 09:19:50]


I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 23052 times:

Any ideas (even rumors) of the cause of the accident?

User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 23028 times:

MSNBC is saying it was a Mustere Falcon 20 with a 60, 30, and 24 year old on baord.
CNN is saying it was a Gulfstream with a 51, 3, and 24 year old on board.
Dailymail is saying Gulfstream with 61, 30, and 24 year old on board
Yahoo news says it was a GIV with 6 onboard.

The article below I believe has it right.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/w...h-kills-three-americans-in-france/


User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 22978 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 6):
Any ideas (even rumors) of the cause of the accident?

Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120713-0



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 22877 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/...713-0

How does a plane just break into two pieces out of nowhere?


User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2458 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 22511 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 9):
How does a plane just break into two pieces out of nowhere?

When it impacts the ground.

The article says: "The airplane broke in two as it crashed near the runway end. One part ended up in a small pond, probably at the end of runway 13, the other part caught fire."



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 22298 times:

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):

Oh I read it wrong. I thought it said it broke up and then crashed


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 22284 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............
Quoting CitationJet (Reply 10):
The article says: "The airplane broke in two as it crashed near the runway end. One part ended up in a small pond, probably at the end of runway 13, the other part caught fire."

What an awful coincidence.

my thoughts to the families  



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineatalanta89 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 22218 times:

oh my god... i landed there just one week ago.

RIP


User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 22094 times:
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CNN now reports that there was three people onboard, the flight crew and a flight attendant. No speculation on the reason of the crash, but the according to some news outlets the GIV had reported some technical problems before the crash.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/13/wo...e-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

My thoughts are with the families of the crew.



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 22045 times:

Possibly a positioning flight with only a Captain, First Officer and a Flight Attendant on board. The accident photos show the reverser clam shells deployed so he was trying to stop on that 5,700 ft. runway. Another case of Vref + a bunch?

User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 21858 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 15):
Possibly a positioning flight with only a Captain, First Officer and a Flight Attendant on board.

It says it was a positioning flight here:

Quoting zeke (Reply 8):
Just loaded onto aviation safety network http://aviation-safety.net/database/...713-0


User currently onlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 500 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 21047 times:

How was the weather at the time of the crash? Could it have been a factor? I wonder if his approach was too high, and instead of going around, he tried to land with too little runway left?

User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3649 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 20588 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 2):
Interesting how this occurs on Friday the Thirteenth..............

Would it have been less interesting if it occurred Saturday the 14th or Thursday the 12th?

Quoting audidudi (Reply 17):
I wonder if his approach was too high, and instead of going around, he tried to land with too little runway left?

Seems likely, that or something similar.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 20501 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 18):

It would not have been less interesting, but it is just a known fact that lots of people gets very nervous and suspicious on Friday the thirteenth.


User currently offlineDLDiamondboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18969 times:

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 15):
accident photos show the reverser clam shells deployed

Yea that was the first thing I noticed. The new report I read indicated a wing separation in flight. Clamshells set would mean that the there was load on the main gear. Does anyone have a different picture that may indicate if the spoilers were deployed?


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2805 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18718 times:

Quoting audidudi (Reply 17):
How was the weather at the time of the crash? Could it have been a factor?

It could, there was good weather, clear skies and warm (some 30°C) but very high and gusty winds, up to 80km/h in the area (at least where I live which is pretty close). The link from Zeke makes it clear it was a ferry flight from Nice to Castellet, a 20 min leg. Given the wind conditions I shouldn't want to land any aircraft today on a runway at angle to the wind, it was probably very gusty and variable in angle and could have changed to a tailwing component late on the final.

[Edited 2012-07-13 14:33:32]


Non French in France
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3649 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18678 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 19):
It would not have been less interesting, but it is just a known fact that lots of people gets very nervous and suspicious on Friday the thirteenth.

I don't agree at all that it's a "known fact" that people "get very nervous" on Friday the 13th - what does that mean? Do you feel nervous right now? I'm not nervous. The only reason to be nervous is if you actually believe there's any difference between Friday the 13th and any other day. Do you believe that?

I'm sorry for the loss of those involved here but I actually think it cheapens their memory to ascribe some significance to some superstitious date for an accident that could just as easily have occurred any other day of the week. You're basically saying it was all just in God's hands, and there was nothing anybody could have done to prevent this... other than flying yesterday or tomorrow, of course.

I don't personally believe that talk of superstitious dates or triangles or whatever else belongs on an aviation forum, unless you believe that flight itself is enabled through witchcraft. We may as well have that discussion if you're going to ascribe significance to Friday the 13th.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18633 times:

Thrust reversers deployed:


From: Bradenton Herald

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 22):
I don't agree at all that it's a "known fact" that people "get very nervous" on Friday the 13th - what does that mean? Do you feel nervous right now? I'm not nervous. The only reason to be nervous is if you actually believe there's any difference between Friday the 13th and any other day. Do you believe that?

I don't think people actually get "nervous," the media just overblows it by doing the following:

If you add up the registration's numbers 8+2+3.. you get 13. And the airplane has 2x6 side windows and the cockpit glass.. that's 13! OMG!

 



[Edited 2012-07-13 14:30:19]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18352 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 22):

It is true hat many people gt nervous when flying on Friay the thirteenth. it IS a fact. If you ask around, people will tell you that they are extra careful today. Not everybody, but a lot of people, like me. I am a very superstitious person. I'm sorry if you don't agree with what I said, but I said it out of experience. All I meant by my original mention of Friday the thirteenth, is that itmis interesting that this HAPPENED to occur today, of all days. Not that I am minimizing the significance of what happened.


25 Gulfstream650 : Not that it would have necessarily had any implication as to why this plane crashed but 24 seems to be very young for a 1st officer of a plane like a
26 sunking737 : I have some friends here in the U.S. that know the crew. Many folks are very sad to have learned of this crash. So far I have heard nothing but praise
27 boeingforever : the body of the plane seems intact. i feel like it could have been very survivable had there been passengers on board, strapped in, of course
28 av757 : We have first officers who are 20 years old flying F50's, A318/19/20 here at Avianca, As long as they are properly trained and have demostrated their
29 boeingfixer : Where do you see this? The tail is broken clean off and I have yet to see any photos of the fuselage. Your comment really has no basis in fact. My co
30 longhauler : I was an A310 Captain for Wardair at 27. (And NOT the youngest Captain in the airline). So it is unlikely the First Officer's age has any implication
31 PHX787 : Buddy of mine is a F/O for StarFlyer ( 7G ) in Japan and he just turned 25, so age doesn't necessarily matter here. Anyway, Do you think the wind had
32 Post contains images Dainan : It is not in the least bit interesting that it happened on that date since accidents sadly happen all of the time every single day of the year. It's
33 soon7x7 : I'd be interested to see a wing shot if it exists to see wing flap position. Runway overruns rarely are due to mechanical issues, especially in this c
34 soon7x7 : I'd take a fifty year old geezer like myself with 35,000 hours in type before I'd subscribe to 22 year old with 3,000 in type. I'm not talking "sims"
35 corey07850 : Im sure the reason they left Nice was due to lack of ramp parking which is common for Nice in the summer. We normally fly to Toulon or Marseilles as t
36 chrisnh : Journalism schools should make it MANDATORY that all students take 'AVIATION 101.' There is no other category that media hacks botch more than aviati
37 Post contains links and images ferpe : Look at this link provided by Zeke, it says the flight plan was Nice-Le Castellet: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20120713-0 This r
38 cbphoto : I have jump seated on many airlines and flown with a few "60+ geezers" with thousands of hours and I can honestly say, they are not the best either!
39 foxxray : What is the right age for you ? So we could also say 60 seems to be very old for a GIV captain ?!!!? I've friends who were younger than 24 when the s
40 GulfstreamGuy : This is horrible news! My prayers are with the families of these victims.
41 Post contains images darreno1 : When I step on an Aircraft, I like to see some gray on my captain or least an older person in the left seat. I have flown with younger pilots but don
42 Beeski : Have any names of the pilots/crew been released? My old flight instructor is now a FO for Universal Jet. He is older than 24, and his facebook had him
43 FlySSC : They were landing on Runway ... 13
44 Giancavia : From the rip comments on some of the news sites, One of the pilots was named "Bobby" and the female flight attendant was named "Gwen". I dont think t
45 LONGisland89 : I knew the first officer. The man was exceptionally funny and loved by many. Some here are suggesting he was unpracticed because of his age, but he wa
46 Post contains images cbphoto : Really? Let me educate you on Eastern 401, a very senior Captain who was at that nice grey age of 55, with a First Officer who was 39 and a flight en
47 LH707330 : Would Jacob Van Zanten qualify as an experienced graybeard?
48 spiritair97 : I live on Long Islanf and judging by your username you visit here or live here too. Was he from around here? It would really hit close to home for me
49 Gulfstream650 : I simply didn't realise that people as young as their early 20s are getting to fly in the left or right seats in planes such as a GIV or bigger.
50 Flighty : An older pilot has lived through some interesting mistakes and knows his weaknesses. That doesn't mean any judgement of the people involved in this t
51 aerorobnz : The world is crying out for more pilots, this means that pilots who are suitably qualified are snapped up into positions much earlier than most used
52 Post contains images barney captain : I can assure you that age does NOT equal experience. I was a Captain at Skywest at 25 years of age = 4000 hours. Captain at Southwest at 30 = 8000 ho
53 ricknroll : No, they get every category of hi-tech equally wrong. You only tend to notice it in the areas you have expertise in. The thing that worries me is tha
54 chrisnh : Well, when it comes to THAT category, it's all pure 'editorializing' rather than 'reporting' anyway. And when they take their 'reporting' hat off and
55 Saleya22R : I was in Nice that Friday afternoon. Weather was CAVOK and very hot all over the coast but the wind was very strong must have been well over 40 kts i
56 SmittyOne : Me too, but we're talking about First Officers here...the road to "35,000 hours in type" has to start somewhere...and IMO the earlier the better.[Edi
57 Post contains images soon7x7 : Agreed...good and bad at any age but when a crew member that is confronted by a real emergency, I'm going with the grey...up in the mind of a well se
58 darreno1 : Not age but experience. As a passenger, all I have to judge experience is outer appearance (which I'll admit, isn't the most accurate indicator) as I
59 Post contains links Beeski : Dale Popik, a 60-year-old from Delray Beach, was the pilot of the Gulfstream G-IV that crashed while landing in Le Castellet, France, on Friday. And 2
60 FlySSC : The configuration of LFMQ (Le Castellet) is very particular. I landed a few times there with Cessna 172, 182 and a PA28 and the winds can be very dis
61 affirmative : I landed in Toulon Hyeres (LFTH) just 30 or so minutes before this accident happened. The winds were quite frisky from about W and at approximately 20
62 Aesma : And you started accumulating those 35000 hours the day of your 50th birthday ? Well, the GIV is a big bizjet, but it's the same size as a 50 seats re
63 Gulfstream650 : Of course, but generally speaking commercial passengers have no say over airline flight crew recruiting. If you own a plane you do! Of course many of
64 maxpower1954 : If you can produce proof of anyone with 35,000 in type of anything I'd like to see it. Unless you meant total time, but the average airline type reti
65 longhauler : I can't imagine having 35,000 hours in anything! If you averaged 1000 hours a year, that would be 35 years! And ... 1000 a year in airline flying is t
66 Post contains links 26point2 : Amelia Reid from KRHV had 55,000 hours mostly as an instructor in Luscombe, Citabria and C 150 types. Amelia was my flight instructor in the 80s. Not
67 Post contains links longhauler : She sounds like Marion Orr. A Canadian aviation pioneer, and one of my early instructors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_Orr I wonder with today
68 maxpower1954 : I met a retired Frontier (original) captain at a QB meeting years ago who claimed to be the highest time DC-3 pilot - 22,000 in type. And I seemed to
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