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European Heavies At LHR During The Olympics  
User currently offlineDAL763ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 543 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 14386 times:

Since the Olympics are less than two weeks away now, I was wondering if there are going to be any European heavies at LHR. Since the airport is pretty much at capacity and slot-restricted, there are obviously not going to be extra flights to LHR itself. But there is a chance we'll get to see bigger planes, right? If so, does anyone know if any airline has such plans? Say, an LH A340 from FRA or an AF A330 from CDG etc.


Where aviation is not the side show, it's the main show!!!
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14327 times:
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Quoting DAL763ER (Thread starter):

Since the Olympics are less than two weeks away now, I was wondering if there are going to be any European heavies at LHR. Since the airport is pretty much at capacity and slot-restricted, there are obviously not going to be extra flights to LHR itself. But there is a chance we'll get to see bigger planes, right? If so, does anyone know if any airline has such plans? Say, an LH A340 from FRA or an AF A330 from CDG etc.

Don't get your hopes up to much.


Contestants Official Medic and Coaches are already arriving in dribs and drabs on normal flights
The numbers of over overseas visitors/spectators may actually be down on what would be expected this time of year due to Hotel and Travel Trade attempts at Profiteering back firing.

Only the world press VVIP dignitaries and Royals Politicos and the IOC can be assured in numbers and they won't be traveling on commercials thats for sure .

Try Luton /Farnborough/Cranfield/Southend for those.......


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14225 times:

When Atlanta hosted the Olympics in 1996, there wasn't a major upgrade in a/c types used by international airlines that served ATL at the time nor were there any frequency increases as ATL was already a major international airport with flights to many parts of the world (Same is true with London, Sydney, Beijing, and Athens.). Considering the amount of flights that currently exist between the various London airports and Europe, there is not much of a need to upgrade service to larger a/c. Another thing to remember is that many folks will likely opt to take the Eurostar instead of flying into London.

User currently offlineMACDADDY From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14225 times:

Does anyone know of any charters into LON for the Olympics. Im thinking Air Koryo might pop up as in previous years. Heres hoping!

MAC



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User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14211 times:
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Quoting srbmod (Reply 2):
Another thing to remember is that many folks will likely opt to take the Eurostar instead of flying into London.

Even thats not certain.
The frequencies available rolling stock and line capacity of Eurostar isn't that flexible either !







*


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14135 times:
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Quoting MACDADDY (Reply 3):

Does anyone know of any charters into LON for the Olympics. Im thinking Air Koryo might pop up as in previous years. Heres hoping!

MAC

North Koreans may well arrive via China , through it would be nice to see an JS Tu204 wouldn't it .

I have have had the pleasure to see the only JS IL62 to visit the UK twice at Manchester many many years ago for the student games event held in Sheffield


User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13509 times:

I seem to recall a few up gauged flights at the end (day or so after) in past events. Athletes tend to arrive sporadically, but they tend to depart in a short time. Can't find proof of it, but it's what I seem to remember.


I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlineSTEVE7E7 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 5):
I have have had the pleasure to see the only JS IL62 to visit the UK twice at Manchester many many years ago for the student games event held in Sheffield

Shame they sent the same bird for both flights tho, P885 IIRC.


User currently onlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11587 times:

There has been a lot of news coverage in the UK over the last 24 hours as the new temporary air traffic control procedures were implemented at midnight last night.

The news said:

"Paul Haskins, the London general manager of the National Air Traffic Services, said: "London's airspace is one of the most complex and busy in the world. We handle about 3,500 flights a day just through London alone.

"During the Olympics, we're seeing an additional 4,000 flights scheduled into London primarily on six busy days just prior to the opening ceremony, around the 100m final and again just after the closing ceremony.""

STN are expecting a busy few days at the start and end of the Olympics - presumably this is for inbound (and then outbound) charter flights. I believe charter / additional flights have been banned at LHR as it is already at full capacity. To see interesting aircraft, the mantra is likely to be "anywhere but LHR".

Found it....

"Heathrow Airport will not be accepting non-scheduled flights during the Games period." - Dept of Transport

[Edited 2012-07-14 15:19:49]


Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1968 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 2):
When Atlanta hosted the Olympics in 1996, there wasn't a major upgrade in a/c types used by international airlines that served ATL at the time nor were there any frequency increases as ATL was already a major international airport with flights to many parts of the world

I transited thru ATL the day after the closing ceremony and recall seeing three LH 744s, two SR 743s, two OA 742s and a SU Il-62. There were loads of people trying to sell their Olympic volunteer shirts to leaving tourists.........



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineZuluAlpha From Thailand, joined Mar 2010, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10078 times:

Quoting MACDADDY (Reply 3):
Does anyone know of any charters into LON

I know the Australian Olympic team are arriving all via normal commercial flights, but the return flights are two Charters. (like last olympics). The charters are with QF however I am not sure (after seeing the previous thread of no more additional flights) which airport they will use or what equipment they will use (last Olympics it was an A380 and a 744)



CRJ CR7 D10 DHT DH8 DH2 DH3 DH4 EMB ER3 E90 F28 J32 M80 SH6 320 332 333 380 717 732 733 734 738 743 744 752 762 763 772
User currently offlinechumley From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8213 times:

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 10):
I know the Australian Olympic team are arriving all via normal commercial flights, but the return flights are two Charters. (like last olympics). The charters are with QF however I am not sure (after seeing the previous thread of no more additional flights) which airport they will use or what equipment they will use (last Olympics it was an A380 and a 744)

A380? Beijing was August 2008. Qantas got their first 380 in September, so they didn't fly an A380 then. With just 21 winter competitors I can't believe Qantas flew an A380 to Vancouver in 2010 just for them and their families?

[Edited 2012-07-14 23:19:01]

User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9149 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8008 times:

Quoting chumley (Reply 11):

It was a 744 and A330, August 26th.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26599 posts, RR: 75
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
The frequencies available rolling stock and line capacity of Eurostar isn't that flexible either !

Since HS1 and HS2, do they have flexibility with loading gauge? If so, they could supplement with SNCF and DB stock if they really wanted.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinegrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 456 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7296 times:

Quoting MACDADDY (Reply 3):
Im thinking Air Koryo might pop up as in previous years. Heres hoping!

Are they not banned from the EU?


User currently offlinebuyantukhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2907 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6888 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):
Since HS1 and HS2, do they have flexibility with loading gauge? If so, they could supplement with SNCF and DB stock if they really wanted.

HS2 doesn't exist yet, and the thing with HS1 is the certification for Eurotunnel operations, which no regular DB/SNCF rolling stock has for the moment. The only exception being some Eurostar rolling stock that was withdrawn by Eurostar from Eurotunnel service that is now being used by SNCF in France domestically.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6220 times:
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That right parked on the 60s and on first attempt held in Moscow awaiting political clearances.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 13):

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
The frequencies available rolling stock and line capacity of Eurostar isn't that flexible either !

Since HS1 and HS2, do they have flexibility with loading gauge? If so, they could supplement with SNCF and DB stock if they really wanted.

Whilst its true that the HS1 loading and passing clearances are wide enough for EU mainline stock and that the TGV/Thalys stock could run through to London right now
Indeed an ICE and TGV Posté (not under own power) have visited St Pancras on test and press missions.

Regretfully no other passenger stock meets with the fire and escape regulations necessary for working within the tunnel at this time.
Its just the Eurostar certified for passenger operations.

DB are working on getting a version of the ICE approved but that still a few years out yet.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3016 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6104 times:
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Quoting grimey (Reply 14):
Are they not banned from the EU?

The two Tu204s are allowed into the EU they have fully disclosed and documented maintenance records acceptable to the JAA.

Its lack of these that restricts their IL62M for EU airspace.


User currently offlineHBGDS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3997 times:

Unless you have a WHOLE Olympic committee and teams from one country, I doubt you'll see charters. The US Olympic swim team just arrived this a.m. in GVA on the CO/UA flight from IAD to go and train south of here and acclimate for two weeks before flying to London on a regular flight. They all flew coach; the only reason people noticed is that the Captain gave them a thumbs up on the intercom.

User currently onlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1409 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week ago) and read 2948 times:

Putting aside the blatent bias and attempts by the The Daily Mail to find anything it can wrong with the Olympic preparations, there were some interesting facts in an article about the Olympics and LHR this morning:

The previous "busiest day ever" at LHR was last summer: 233,500 pax were "handled" by LHR (I presume that means arriving + departing). Today (16 Jul) they expect to beat that record with 237,000 pax and expect the number to peak at
239,000 pax on 26 July.

So the increase over last summer's busiest day is only ~2%. While it will no doubt be unpleasant in parts of LHR at certains times (as it was last summer at the peak times), it is only a small increase over numbers that the airport has previously dealt with and certainly doesn't justify many extra aircraft or major upgauging (airlines will like the 2% better LF though).



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A388,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,(..51 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7616 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

If LHR is "slot bound" - and it virtually is - then there is little if any room for additional air traffic movements or the substitution of a twin-aisle for a single-aisle aircraft.

Separation of aircraft on both approach and departure is determined by the size of the two aircraft following each other. Some time back (May 2008) I made a study over a three hour nineteen minute period of 136 consecutive arrivals at LHR on 09L. Using a camera with a timer I determined the average separation between aircraft.

On 69 occasions a single-aisle aircraft followed a single-aisle aircraft on finals. The average separation between these aircraft was 75.1 seconds.

On 23 occasions a twin-aisle aircraft landed after a single-aisle aircraft. The average separation between them was 75.0 seconds.

On 24 occasions a single-aisle aircraft followed a twin-aisle aircraft. The average separation here was 133.9 seconds.

On 19 occasions a twin-aisle aircraft folowed another twin-aisle aircraft. Their average sepoaration was 100.1 seconds.

While with judicious ATC it might be possible to substitute a small number of twin-aisle aircraft in slots officially assigned to single-aisle aircraft, it is clear from my data that any significant substitution would not be possible without creating significant delays in the stacks that serve LHR. It is also important to recognise that using larger aircraft may also be constrained by the availability of suitable aircraft stands and by the ability to process the larger number of arrival and departing passengers (although the temporary Olympic Terminal will address this issue for departing passengers on the three days following the closure of the games).

So I would not expect to see a flood of additional wide bodies at LHR because there are not the facilities to handle such an influx.


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