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Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?  
User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2739 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

Why are AF interiors so basic?

Their short haul a/c (A32S) doesn't even have drop down screens, and the new seats can't even recline. Their short haul C class is a joke.

Concerning their long haul a/c, their 777s have become terrible with 10-abreast in Y, and tiny PTVs (some airlines have 10-abreast in Y, but with at least huge PTVs). And of course, they don't have mood lights....

AF 77W 10 abreast:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jerome Mervelet




TAM 77W 10 abreast:

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Photo © Christian Waser




Even at 10 abreast, TAM 77Ws look much nicer.


Concerning their A380s, they must be the most basic A380s in the world: nothing extraordinary, when we compare to other airlines, inluding LH (!).

The F and C class are also disappointing.

What do you think? Why does AF make the miminum?
Don't they have to improve their cabin to remain competitive?

This is not an AF bashing thread, on the contrary, I love this airline, which represents my country around the world.

[Edited 2012-07-15 02:17:23]


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30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 15121 times:

Basic? First of all, there are many airlines with WAY worse hard products than AF.

Have you flown with them? I was always under the impression that they had a rather bland looking cabin, but after flying on their A380 (AF066, CDG-LAX, trip report coming..) I must say their seat is quite comfortable and they have very good IFE. Additionally, they do have some semblance of "mood lighting."

Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.



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User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14958 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Basic? First of all, there are many airlines with WAY worse hard products than AF.

Of course.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Have you flown with them? I was always under the impression that they had a rather bland looking cabin, but after flying on their A380 (AF066, CDG-LAX, trip report coming..) I must say their seat is quite comfortable and they have very good IFE. Additionally, they do have some semblance of "mood lighting."

A380s do have some kind of mood lighting, altough they are not really mood lightings since there is only one colour (purple).
If you compare AF A380s to other airlines, there is no comparison possible...



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User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 836 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14952 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why are AF interiors so basic?

I don't feel their cabins are basic compared to other airlines. Perhaps you just feel like that because you are flying on them most of the time and it feels more special when you are on another carrier.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Their short haul a/c (A32S) doesn't even have drop down screens, and the new seats can't even recline. Their short haul C class is a joke.

Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.
And I don't know about any airline left in Europe that is providing a real C class. You just get what you need for these short hops: 1,5 seats with a blocked middle seat and business treatment from the crew. What else do you expect?

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):

Concerning their long haul a/c, their 777s have become terrible with 10-abreast in Y, and tiny PTVs (some airlines have 10-abreast in Y, but with at least huge PTVs). And of course, they don't have mood lights....

I am not sure about that point and I prefer 9-abreast 777s, too, but I think TAM just got their 777s at a later point, so they have the newer interiors with mood lightning and larger screens. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can enlighten us if new AF 777s are delivered with the same hard-product as their A380s?

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Concerning their A380s, they must be the most basic A380s in the world: nothing extraordinary, when we compare to other airlines, including LH (!).

I have flown the AF A380 in Y and found it to be a very nice experience. And I look forward to fly on that plane again in November. Large screens, good IFE, excellent seats with good width and legroom, USB power, nothing else you could wish for.

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
The F and C class are also disappointing.

Have not flown F or C with AF, but I visited both cabins in the A380 and tried the seats, found them to be comfortable and stylish designed. Lots of personal space, too...


User currently offlineairsmiles From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14249 times:

I must say those aisles looking really tiny for so many people to exit from! I'm not used to Y class but are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles? No doubt they meet minimum standards but what do others think about the aisle size?

User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13108 times:

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

We are having the same debate here in the USA and I agree with you. Of course long-haul is a different story, but personally I think installing tv screens on short-haul aircraft is a waste of space, money, and maintenance hours...

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.

Agreed - the catering is probably going to be the biggest difference people notice.

[Edited 2012-07-15 08:05:17]


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User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12722 times:

The interiors are perhaps a little bland, color wise, but you got everything you need on their A380's. I flew in economy on their A380 and was happy with the experience. Everyone even get complimentary Champagne in economy ...  

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2984 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12494 times:
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Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):

I have only been on a few A380's: AF, LH and SQ. But in Business. I found AF to be very good as was LH. However both were well beaten by SQ. The AF seat was better than LH, but LH was seemingly cleaner.

Too bad LX won't be getting an A380 (or the 748i). I will be on LH's in August with their new seats. It will be interesting.

But in general I have never found AF to live up to the wonderful nation she represents.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 836 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11204 times:

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 5):
We are having the same debate here in the USA and I agree with you. Of course long-haul is a different story, but personally I think installing tv screens on short-haul aircraft is a waste of space, money, and maintenance hours...

I think you can not compare the short-haul fleets in the USA and from European Airlines as the sector lengths in the US are on average much longer. A lot of national flights in the USA are in the 3-6 hours range, while this is not the case here in Europe. Lisbon - Moscow would be be equal to a US transcon, but flights that long are very rare if you just focus on inner-EU flights.


User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10366 times:

The BA 773 config in Y is 3-3-3 but to be honest i prefered EK 773 even in 3-4-3 config. Mood lighting on EK and their ICE AVOD is great. QR have the best Y service though in Y... Well except for TG

User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10150 times:

Quoting spud757 (Reply 9):
The BA 773 config in Y is 3-3-3 but to be honest i prefered EK 773 even in 3-4-3 config.

There is no mood light in Y on BA 77Ws?Only in F?



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User currently offlineferminbrif From Venezuela, joined Dec 2010, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10125 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why Are AF Interiors So Basic?



maybe because good things are basic. there´s no need to be overloaded of stuff to be good.


User currently offlineba286 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10022 times:

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

While I agree that TV programming or movies are unnecessary for such short flights, I do enjoy glancing at the air show every now and then. Always nice to known where you are!



E190 A318 A319 A320 A343 ATR42 717 732 733 734 735 737 738 744 752 772 DC-10 MD-11
User currently offlineCitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2469 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9735 times:

Quoting LY777 (Thread starter):
Why are AF interiors so basic?

To match their exterior???   



Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
User currently offlineJHCRJ700 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9406 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 1):
Being someone from the US, I'm going to maintain that AF is at least a step above most of our airlines.

Amen to that!



RUSH
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9298 times:

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
Why are screens important on a short-haul fleet in Europe? Most routes are not longer than 1-2 hours and you really don't need a movie etc. on this short hops.

That is true. And even on routes in the 4-5 hour range in the US, like Transcon hops, most people don't even use their PTV and instead opt to catch a quick nap before arriving.

That being said, it's not like all of the American airlines aircraft are equipped with PTVs..

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
a real C class.

I feel like OP is pushing at the separated cabin with bigger seats being a "real C class." Glancing through C domestic trip reports in the EU and US, it seems like Europe has the edge when it comes to soft product. Personally, on such a short leg I'd rather get good service than snooty service and a big seat..

Quoting CARST (Reply 3):
I have flown the AF A380 in Y and found it to be a very nice experience. And I look forward to fly on that plane again in November. Large screens, good IFE, excellent seats with good width and legroom, USB power, nothing else you could wish for.

Make sure you get the upper deck. And if the config is a V. 2 A380 (check based on whether or not a Y+ cabin is fitted), get seat 89A. The side storage bin and emergency exit protrusion behind the seat make for a lounge chair experience.

Quoting LY777 (Reply 2):
A380s do have some kind of mood lighting, altough they are not really mood lightings since there is only one colour (purple).

Oh. I thought my flight's mood-lighting was broken. Guess not.. though to be fair it did seem to cycle between a purple and indigo-blue.



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User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9083 times:

Quoting ferminbrif (Reply 11):

maybe because good things are basic. there´s no need to be overloaded of stuff to be good.

It depends.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 7):
But in general I have never found AF to live up to the wonderful nation she represents.

This is exactly my guess

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 13):
To match their exterior???

LOL

Quoting ba286 (Reply 12):
I do enjoy glancing at the air show every now and then. Always nice to known where you are!

This is my favourite program on the IFE.



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User currently offlinespud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 7846 times:

Quoting LY777 (Reply 10):

Travelled BA on the 77W LHR-BOM-LHR and it was indeed very bland interior with either no lights on or all on. Could see (from a distance) the blue mood light on up in F but obviously cattle class in Y don't deserve a gentle mood light. Now that is extreme cost cutting if the blue light couldn't continue the whole length of the aircraft!
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK or QR.


User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7563 times:

Inter-EU AF is on-par with their competitors. The business model and average sector length currently don't warrant a US or Asian style inter-EU J class.

Long-Haul AF's NEV concept was revolutionary at the time it was introduced, but has fallen drastically behind the expectations of today's long-haul J class passenger. AF is about to embark on a +500Million Euro retrofit of F and J class on the A380 and 777 a/c in which a new P suite will be introduced and J will finally get all-aisle access flat-bed seating. The seat will be developed by SICMA and announcements are forthcoming.

That said, I find AF's long-haul cabin schemes to be neutral and quite pleasing for extended hours. Pale beige, white, grey and dark blue provide for a calming experience.

They're my preferred carrier for TATL travel.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinegoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7466 times:

I do not think their interiors are basic at all and their service is on par or better than many carriers. Of course, they're not SQ or CX but...
As said by many posters before me, PTV or screens are a waste of money on European flights. A tablet or a book provide excellent entertainment for one or 2 hrs.
And regarding mood lightning, I'm still waiting for any serious study proving its usefulness. For me, it's just a gadget I don't care about a single second.


User currently offlineeuroflyer From France, joined Jun 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

You also do have to remember that AF is not and don't want to be a luxury airline as EK, QR, SQ or even LX.
Their positioning is mainly mid-class and absolutely matches with their pax profile, so they tend to offer basic but functional equipment (even if sometimes the prices don't follow). Moreover, and don't see any racism or xenophobia in there but AF serves very different routes and has a great presence on the African market where people don't really take care of things in general. One of my most exotic experience was onboard flight AF888 connecting CDG to FIH (Kinshasa, Congo), I remember at least 3 broken tray-tables and 2 armrests just within a radius of 5-seats around me. What a mess it was for the F/A's, not judging, it was just some kind of a cultural shock.



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User currently offlineLY777 From France, joined Nov 2005, 2739 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4176 times:

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.

I didn't know that BA was so bad in Y. At least, their 777 are still at 9-abreast in Y.

Quoting goldorak (Reply 19):
As said by many posters before me, PTV or screens are a waste of money on European flights. A tablet or a book provide excellent entertainment for one or 2 hrs.

An Airshow map is very appreciated even on short haul.
AF operates their CDG-Moscow flights with A320s with no IFE, and these flights are much longer than one or 2 hours...



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User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3923 times:

Quoting airsmiles (Reply 4):
are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles?

About 2.5 inches narrower.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK

Can't believe anyone would prefer 10-abreast to 9-abreast on a 777, regardless of other service amenities.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2037 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
Quoting airsmiles (Reply 4): are 3-4-3 aisles much smaller than 3-3-3 aisles?
About 2.5 inches narrower.

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):On BA 77w New AVOD is good but the cabin interior bland, food bland, service bland.
Not a patch on recent Y trips on EK
Can't believe anyone would prefer 10-abreast to 9-abreast on a 777, regardless of other service amenities.

I agree, having recently flown with AF to HAV, 10Y on the 777 is most unpleasant if you're reasonably large, and that smaller aisle is really noticeable as you squeeze through the bodies flopping into it  

I found the IFE fine, was disappointed in the service though



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User currently onlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5540 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3732 times:

Seems to be the trend of the day for cost effectiveness. Uniform interiors, colors, trim, equipment. Makes parts interchangeable and maintenance supposedly easier. You have to go to the really long haul flights on say Emirates (380's and 787's) for more pizazz in the cabin.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
25 ContnlEliteCMH : This is the first time I can recall somebody complaining on Airliners.net that the PTV screens are too small. Usually the complaint is that there are
26 Post contains links and images OA260 : I have had a love hate relationship with AF over the years and many a time I have been flamed for it but I have to say I was impressed by their A380
27 Post contains images n729pa : Perhaps it's easier to clean!! sorry...tongue firmly in cheek! Actually I do like AF, I've flown them twice LHR-CDG-LHR, A380 and A320 and I was pleas
28 LY777 : I agree with you. Most AF F/As are OK. Nevertheless, I have once experienced a rude AF F/A on a VCE-CDG flight: she treated passengers like pupils at
29 maddog888 : It is no excuse - being pleasant is part of their job description after all - but I would suggest that the delay may have contributed to her attitude
30 1stfl94 : It's always nice to see staff disparaging their own business! I suspect this is more due to the fact that there is little competition on many of thes
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