Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
~~ July 17 TWA Flight 800 Remembrance ~~  
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

Many of you will recall that July 17 is an important date in aviation history. 16 summers ago, a 747 climbed out of New York City heading to Paris. Minutes later, the 747 stopped flying and fell out of the sky. All passengers and crew members on the 747 perished under water. The tragedy touched the world for hours, days, weeks, and years.

The loss of TWA Flight 800 on July 17, 1996 was shocking, confusing, and depressing. July 17 is the day we should look back and think of TWA Flight 800 for a minute or two.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ken Rose



Thank you.


Airliners.net of the Future
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8229 times:

A sad day for all involved, and even as someone who wasn't directly connected to the accident, it touched me and made quite an impression on my then-15 year old mind. May everyone onboard rest in peace.


ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8070 times:

Always remember it as it's the day after my birthday, and day before my partners, RIP TW 800......


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineIFlyTWA From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Never will forget that day. RIP TW 800.


"To express the excitement of travel" - Eero Saarinen
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2379 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7903 times:

Living on Long Island, I've had the privilege of visiting the TWA 800 Memorial at Smith Point Park and attending the memorial service on a few occasions. I didn't know anyone on the flight, but my father spent 40 years at TWA, and I grew up around the place. Although he had retired by the time time Flight 800 went down, TWA was still family, and we mourned along with those involved.

I'd like to share some photos of the memorial at the park, as well as from the service.

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/TWA-Flight-800-Memorial/JM20060916TWA011/134673719_RBzND-L-2.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/TWA-Flight-800-Memorial/JM20060916TWA002/134673180_DykEj-L-2.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/TWA-Flight-800-Memorial/JM20100717TWA800003/938610583_vpfcz-L.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/TWA-Flight-800-Memorial/JM20100717TWA800009/938611152_rW8ug-L.jpg

http://www.moose135photography.com/Long-Island/TWA-Flight-800-Memorial/JM20100717TWA800016/938612079_74PRW-L.jpg

More photos:
http://www.moose135photography.com/L...Flight-800-Memorial/2559898_dwjcBJ



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7849 times:

God I remember that night like yesterday. I will always have the image of the burned TWA coffee cups floating on the ocean surface in my head. The crash was such a blow to the morale and finances to TWA.

It's interesting to see how much has changed since that night. Gate 27 at Terminal 5, where TWA 800 left from, is now the jetBlue checkin area. jetBlue hadn't even been thought of that night. The Ramada where the families stayed is closed. The TWA hanger where the crew checked in that night has been torn down.

Please pause and remember the crew of TWA 800:
Captain Steven Snyder
Captain Ralph Kevorkian
Flight Engineer Richard Campbell
Flight Engineer Oliver Krick
Flight Service Manager Jacques Charbonnier
Flight Attendant Daniel Callas
Flight Attendant Constance Charbonnier
Flight Attendant Janet Christopher
Flight Attendant Debra Collins DiLuccio
Flight Attendant Arlene Johnsen
Flight Attendant Raymond Lang
Flight Attendant Maureen Lockhart
Flight Attendant Sandra Meade
Flight Attendant Grace Melotin
Flight Attendant Marit Rhoads
Flight Attendant Michael Schuldt
Flight Attendant Melinda Torche
Flight Attendant Jill Ziemkiewicz

Along with 35 other TWA employees including the deadheading crew of TW840 to FCO.


User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1636 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

Does Montoursville High School (Montoursville, PA) have its own memorial for those students (the French club) killed on TWA 800?

SmithAir747



I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 6):
Does Montoursville High School (Montoursville, PA) have its own memorial for those students (the French club) killed on TWA 800?

Yes they do, I believe it was erected shortly after the crash. I have seen pictures of it. It's a pillar somewhere outside in Montoursville.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2416 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7803 times:

I didn't loose a loved one in that accident, however I do have a personal connection with this disaster, believe it or not the crash of TW 800 sparked my interest in aviation. I am always skeptical of mentioning this when one asks me how I got interested in aviation, but its the truth. I have lived in Long Island all my life, and remember that night like it was yesterday. I was 7 years old at the time and I remember walking into my apartment with my mother that night with the TV on, all you saw was the black ocean and the red fire that was all over the place followed by the announcement that TWA 800 had indeed gone down. Two days later in the direction where the plane had gone down there was a Rainbow visible and I remember my mother telling me that it was a sign from god that everyone on board the plane was with god, to this day that image still brings a tear to my eye. I still remember the various pictures and images on the TV, and newspapers of the Boeing 747 helped spark my interest in aviation.

I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

RIP to the 230 PAX, Crew and N93119.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

Of all things, September 11th.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Please pause and remember the crew of TWA 800:
Quoting moose135 (Reply 4):
I'd like to share some photos of the memorial at the park, as well as from the service.

I'm too young to remember TWA 800, however those pictures are lovely. My condolences to all affected.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7728 times:

At the risk of going off-topic...

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

It didn't spark my interest (I had a budding interest even before this), but for some reason, the UA 232 crash did quite a bit to fuel my interest in aviation, particularly after seeing the film "A Thousand Heroes" (which is a great movie IMHO; I would recommend it to anyone with any interest in aviation). In retrospect, this may not be fully fair to Captain Fitch or to the rest of the flight crew, who all did an amazing job, but I came to idolize Captain Haynes

After that, I found myself studying aviation accidents...I think one motivation was morbid curiosity, but as someone who wanted to be a commercial pilot, I also looked at it as trying to learn from the mistakes made by others. OTOH, this also instilled a "safety at any cost" mentality including a strong belief in redundancies, which has me fuming at the whole concept of ETOPS, among other things. But, that's a debate for a different thread  

With this background, and having developed a love for TWA after Pan Am died (my dream as a tween/teenager was to be a TWA 747 captain), in spite of not having a direct connection to TW 800 or to anyone onboard, the tragedy struck me very deeply...and I followed the investigation as closely as I could (given that I was 15 and this was before the Internet was wide-spread; most of the websites discussing the crash at the time were run by conspiracy theorists). In any event, it was a terrible tragedy.



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7385 times:

I think what struck me about TWA 800 was that it undermined my feeling of safety in the skies. There have been plenty of horrible aviation tragedies before and after Flight 800, but for some reason this one felt like 'it could have been any of us.' Prior to that night, I would have had no problems getting on a TWA Boeing 747, and I would have looked forward to the Paris-bound flight much like the high school students from Montoursville Pa. probably did. Most of those kids were about 16-17 years old...sadly they have been gone about as long as they were alive. TWA was enjoying something of a small renaissance prior to this accident, with a new logo and livery (not rolled out to the accident airplane), and a new attitutde among its many crewmembers. Things were finally looking up for the airline; the crash took all of the wind out of their sails and within 5 years of this accident, TWA was basically gone.

The accident investigation had it all, from claims of terrorism (my initial thought), to conspiracy and cover-up, to just a humble accident probably caused by a sparking 27-year old wire. While I accept the official investigation, many chose to believe this was something far more sinister reaching to the highest levels of the US government. Who knows - but let's not turn this memorial thread into a conspiracy page as today should be about remembering those taken from us and the families forever affected by this tragic flight.
God Bless all that were lost that hot, humid New York night....



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineRyanAirB737 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7122 times:

I never let a year pass without paying some sort of remembrance on July 17.

My grandfather (I never met him) was a flight captain / pilot for TWA waaaay back when it had another name (Transcontinental and Western?) He gave my mom a carrying bag that was either from TWA or from Pan Am.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 1):
A sad day for all involved, and even as someone who wasn't directly connected to the accident, it touched me and made quite an impression on my then-15 year old mind. May everyone onboard rest in peace.

I was 13 when TWA flight 800 happened. It is amazing how impressionable that age is I guess. It stuck with me. I was 5 when Pan Am 103 happened, and even at 5 years old I understand that the plane "exploded", but that didn't stick with me as much as TWA 800.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 9):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

Yes. This one did. I had a very irrational fear of flying when I was a teenager to the point that I should have seen someone, and this crash was my vice so to speak. I did not know the specifics of what happened at the time, but I knew that there was a lot of controversy about it between 1996 and 2000 when the final report came out. My parents and I went to Europe in October 1999 and I think I researched every possible aircraft, aircraft part, and accident including every inch of "public" information or misinformation about TWA flight 800. We flew on TWA flight 900 (yes, the number freaked me out) and that was my first and only experience with TWA and the Eero Saarinen terminal at JFK. At the time, the space age terminal kind of freaked me out... it made it look as if flying was something superhuman. I also remember certain dark and dingey places throughout the terminal that made me feel like I was in a time machine (check-in, the duty free shop by baggage claim, FIS and international baggage claim, boarding areas). It was a very weird experience, but now understanding the history, I think fondly of T5.

The flights (840, 900, 843 and I don't remember the evening flight JFK-LAX) were the smoothest I had ever been on. Since then, I have been very interested in aviation and since I have aged, have lost the irrational fear. I've learned a ton about aircraft and even aerodynamics, and I have amassed great respect for the field and flight crew. You still won't catch me flying in my own aircraft though.  

It is a shame that we lost TWA, just like Pan Am, and it is even more saddening how many lost their lives on TWA flight 800. Rest in peace.


User currently offlineeagle125 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7058 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?
AF 447, AF 4590, and AA 587 are the ones I remember the most vividly and are the first to come to mind. I was also too young to recall TW 800. Every accident/incident has its own uniqueness to it, which has helped spurred my interest in the industry. In addition, I consider myself blessed to have never had a fear of flying, even after living through 9/11 at a young age.

May the victims of TW 800 forever live in peace.

[Edited 2012-07-17 11:58:18]


AT7, M80, 83, 88, E145, 190, B722, 732, 733, 735, 73G, 752, 772, 77W, A319, 320, 343
User currently offlineA318 From Bahamas, joined Jan 2008, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

I still remember seeing the minnie mouse stuffed animal floating around in the water.... Gives me chills just thinking about it.


Welcome aboard!
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
God I remember that night like yesterday. I will always have the image of the burned TWA coffee cups floating on the ocean surface in my head. The crash was such a blow to the morale and finances to TWA.

It's interesting to see how much has changed since that night. Gate 27 at Terminal 5, where TWA 800 left from, is now the jetBlue checkin area. jetBlue hadn't even been thought of that night. The Ramada where the families stayed is closed. The TWA hanger where the crew checked in that night has been torn down.

Please pause and remember the crew of TWA 800:
Captain Steven Snyder
Captain Ralph Kevorkian
Flight Engineer Richard Campbell
Flight Engineer Oliver Krick
Flight Service Manager Jacques Charbonnier
Flight Attendant Daniel Callas
Flight Attendant Constance Charbonnier
Flight Attendant Janet Christopher
Flight Attendant Debra Collins DiLuccio
Flight Attendant Arlene Johnsen
Flight Attendant Raymond Lang
Flight Attendant Maureen Lockhart
Flight Attendant Sandra Meade
Flight Attendant Grace Melotin
Flight Attendant Marit Rhoads
Flight Attendant Michael Schuldt
Flight Attendant Melinda Torche
Flight Attendant Jill Ziemkiewicz

Along with 35 other TWA employees including the deadheading crew of TW840 to FCO.

Great post---thank you for naming the crew victims and for remembering them.

Quoting richierich (Reply 11):
but let's not turn this memorial thread into a conspiracy page

No one mentioned it until you did, actually. But I agree.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2696 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6812 times:




arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineSANflyr From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

For me, it was 9/11. I was an architect at the Pentagon before/during/and after the attack. HATED to fly before that day. I would have crash nightmares every night before a flight. I'll never forget a passenger next to me saying after we had landed "I was never afraid to fly until I sat next to you." I hadn't spoken one word to her during the flight...it was my behavior...sweating, nervous, checking my watch every two seconds, etc.
After 9/11, my fear of flying evaporated and I have become a bit obsessed about the Aviation industry. In fact, I applied for a job at UA this morning.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8165 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6738 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 15):
No one mentioned [the conspiracy] until you did, actually. But I agree.

I think it's pretty much a dead issue tbh. 9/11 gets more mysterious as time goes by (Tower 7, no footage or wreckage at the Pentagon, no air force intercepts, etc etc) but TWA 800 much less so - the tell-tale signature of an internal explosion, the similar incidents elsewhere (TG and CI 737s, the latter of which is a YouTube staple), the CVR showing the final moments in the cockpit were absorbed by an electrical / indication fault. In the aftermath of the accident, little was known, but one would have to be in wilful denial of the facts to accomodate a missile strike.

Then again - in a mainstream British documentary (BBC or ITV), they interviewed a couple who were celebrating an anniversary (or similar) nr NYC (I think it was on Long Island), and asked a bystander to take their photo. When they got the prints back from the lab, in one corner is a spark of light; when enlarged, it is unmistakably a missile with a trail of fire and a long plume of smoke. The documentary actually supported the verdict of the official report, as do I, but does anyone else know about that photo, and if anything more is known about the provenance of the missile (or whatever it is)?

RIP TWA 800



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1658 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6702 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

My sad memories of TWA 800

When I was dating the gal who later became my wife, her condo was 2 units away, about 75 feet from Capt. Steve Snyder’s condo in Connecticut. While she never really got to talk to him other than say hello, she did see him on a number of occasions in passing, sometimes when he was in uniform.

She knew from talking to other neighbors that he was a pilot for TWA and told me she would have liked to get him and I together so we could talk about airplanes. She had already moved in with me when the accident occurred and she was in total shock to hear that her former neighbor Capt. Steve Snyder had died that day.

Ironically yesterday we went back to the development where she used to live to visit one of her former neighbors and we decided to drive past her old unit, and as we passed Capt. Snyder’s former unit we remarked how many years have past since Capt. Snyder died on TWA 800. I often wonder if the present owners know who had previously owned their unit.

I personally knew a passenger on TWA 800, he was a corporate pilot whose flight department office was next door to ours in the hanger at HPN and since I was good friends with their chief of maintenance, we had worked together as mechanics at a previous job, I used to spend time hanging out in their office so I knew all of their pilots. He left this position and took a job with Dassault who makes the Falcon Jet line of biz jets as a company demo pilot and one of their job functions was to fly commercially to the factory in France and bring back to the US a Falcon Jet.

Almost all Falcon Jets, although they are built in France are painted and have their interiors and avionics installed in Little Rock, AR before they are delivered to their customers throughout the world. That fateful day he was on TWA 800 on his way to France to pick up a Falcon Jet to ferry back to the US.

RIP TWA 800

JetStar


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2900 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6635 times:

Thank you, September11, for bringing this up. As a teenager on Long Island when this happened, this was an event that rocked our area, and motivated me to someday become part of the airline undustry so I could do my part to ensure a safe operation every day. It's hard to believe that here I sit, 16 years later, in a Technical Operations Hangar doing just that...being part of a crew that ensures safe aircraft operations.

RIP to the 230 souls on board that were lost. I really do hope to make it out to the memorial one day to pay my respects.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6614 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This accident is, partly, what sparked my fear of flying, of all things. I was on N93119 doing ATH-JFK (TWA881) on the afternoon of July 17, 1996, and she turned around the went down going back to Europe.

Two years later, I did ZRH-JFK on HB-IWF, and she went down going back to GVA just a few hours later as SWR111.

I always remember these crashes on their anniversaries, and I've read so much information on them it's probably responsible for how much of my academic training I've forgotten!

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlinecontrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6457 times:

I remember the evening of July 17, 1996, very well. I lived in Arlington, VA, at the time - not far from DCA. The memories of seeing the fires on the surface of the ocean will always be with me.

The aviation world has certainly changed since that evening.



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6442 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 18):
when enlarged, it is unmistakably a missile with a trail of fire and a long plume of smoke.

"Unmistakably" is a bit strong. It's a piece of burning structure (the fuel tank was torn open during the inflight breakup), not a missile.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 18):
does anyone else know about that photo, and if anything more is known about the provenance of the missile

The photo, and related witness reports, are fairly well known. I don't think anyone disputes a trail of fire in the sky; the argument is about what caused it. Given that TWA800 broke up in the air with a large fuel load onboard, I know where I place my bets.

Tom.


User currently offlineBlueLine From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6425 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 2):
Always remember it as it's the day after my birthday

Same here. I remember getting in the car after spending the day at Great America in Gurnee, IL and hearing the event covered on the radio. I will never forget getting home and seeing the footage of burning aircraft remains on the news. I had a cousin who owned a beach house that would tell us about finding parts of the wreckage washed up along the shore.

Me and my family would fly into ISP every summer, but my parents chose to drive to Long Island from Chicago for a few years afterwards because to the rumors that TWA 800 was shot down.

RIP to all aboard TWA flight 800


User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4289 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 21):
This accident is, partly, what sparked my fear of flying, of all things. I was on N93119 doing ATH-JFK (TWA881) on the afternoon of July 17, 1996, and she turned around the went down going back to Europe.

Two years later, I did ZRH-JFK on HB-IWF, and she went down going back to GVA just a few hours later as SWR111.

Holy cow- that's creepy! Just curious, did the FBI interview you about Flight 800? Being on the previous flight and not knowing what caused the explosion, at that time, I might have expected them to start looking at the previous flight or two for any information. Do you remember your flight into JFK on either of these doomed aircraft?

Quoting slider (Reply 15):
No one mentioned it until you did, actually. But I agree.

I've been reading these threads for probably the last decade and EVERY July 17th there are a few comments concerning what some believe was the cause of the accident that goes against the official explanation. Some years it took over the thread but I think it should be about memorializing those that perished.

Quoting JETSTAR (Reply 19):
Ironically yesterday we went back to the development where she used to live to visit one of her former neighbors and we decided to drive past her old unit, and as we passed Capt. Snyder’s former unit we remarked how many years have past since Capt. Snyder died on TWA 800. I often wonder if the present owners know who had previously owned their unit.

He lived in Stratford, CT, right? Was this down toward the water?



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6611 times:

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 21):
This accident is, partly, what sparked my fear of flying, of all things. I was on N93119 doing ATH-JFK (TWA881) on the afternoon of July 17, 1996, and she turned around the went down going back to Europe.

Two years later, I did ZRH-JFK on HB-IWF, and she went down going back to GVA just a few hours later as SWR111.

Did I read this right? You were on both of these doomed airliners THE FLIGHT BEFORE each disaster?!

If so, I'm thinking a fear of flying might be healthy in your case. Of all the millions (billions) of flights around the world, to be 'one flight away' from two of the worst disasters in memory would understandably have that effect on a person. I personally would crawl under my bed and probably not come out.


User currently offlineloalq From Switzerland, joined Jan 2007, 229 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6700 times:

Sadly and coincidentally, July 17 also marks the date when TAM flight 3054 overran runway 35L while landing at Congonhas Airport in Sao Paulo, Brazil, in 2007. 187 passengers and crew, plus 12 people on the ground, lost their lives.

Indeed a sad day in aviation history. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of all those touched by these two horrible accidents.



"...this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped."
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6625 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 11):
The accident investigation had it all, from claims of terrorism (my initial thought), to conspiracy and cover-up, to just a humble accident probably caused by a sparking 27-year old wire. While I accept the official investigation, many chose to believe this was something far more sinister reaching to the highest levels of the US government. Who knows - but let's not turn this memorial thread into a conspiracy page as today should be about remembering those taken from us and the families forever affected by this tragic flight.


I finished a long report about TWA-800 for a class in Law School. The class is analysis of evidence and we had to make a wigmoring chart. With the sources attached the report is over 300 pages with about 300 key cites. I went in depth into the terrorist missile theory and the NTSB finding. Me and my partners final conclusion: 90% chance it was exactly what the NTSB said it was but why not do some computer animations with the many eye witnesses again so we can figure out why they seemed to see something different. It would probably shut down all the crazy theories out there. The project forced us to focus more on the conspiracy theory. It was very interesting and I now know a lot about TWA 800.

I was only six years old when it happened, I really do not remember much from the night of that crash. I do however remember a bit in the aftermath the few years after that. Also a Herpa TWA 747-100 was the first model I ever purchased a few years later. Now after dedicating weeks of work to the crash I will never forget July 17th. A horrible day for all involved and the aviation world in general.

Quoting richierich (Reply 11):
I think what struck me about TWA 800 was that it undermined my feeling of safety in the skies. There have been plenty of horrible aviation tragedies before and after Flight 800, but for some reason this one felt like 'it could have been any of us.'


I agree. I think it is because it was really not in anyone's control. Most crashes these days are pilot error or someone messed up big time. This was just a perfect string of events to cause this disaster and it could have happened at anytime. On the ground, the next flight etc.. It was just out of control of anyone. That is the feeling I get.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Captain Steven Snyder
Captain Ralph Kevorkian
Flight Engineer Richard Campbell
Flight Engineer Oliver Krick


One thing that stood out to me when I investigated the crash for my class was how young one of the FE's was. The other three flight crew members were all highly experienced old timers. Some of them started flying in old piston aircraft. But one of the FE's was 24 years old on maybe his 30th hour of flight time with TWA. I just imagine how excited he must have been to be with the great crew on that flight heading across the Atlantic on the way to CDG.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 18):
The documentary actually supported the verdict of the official report, as do I, but does anyone else know about that photo, and if anything more is known about the provenance of the missile (or whatever it is)?


If it is the picture I am thinking of pretty sure people said it was just a error in the development of the picture.

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 21):
This accident is, partly, what sparked my fear of flying, of all things. I was on N93119 doing ATH-JFK (TWA881) on the afternoon of July 17, 1996, and she turned around the went down going back to Europe.
Two years later, I did ZRH-JFK on HB-IWF, and she went down going back to GVA just a few hours later as SWR111.


That is remarkable and shocking at the same time due to the odds of that happening.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6593 times:

The generally believed cause of the mid-air explosion of TWA 800 was fumes in a lightly fueled center fuel tank and it's volatile fumes set off by damaged fuel sensor wiring. This editorial on the website of the Long Island Newsday newspaper points out that 16 years later mandates to deal with the risks on some aircraft of fuel tank fumes have yet to be met and may not for years: http://www.newsday.com/opinion/edito...t-800-fixes-still-needed-1.3844230

I got home from work at about 9:30 that night. Like it was here today, it was a hot, muggy mid-summer night. Reports of an aircraft blowing up in the air south of Long Island and scenes of fire in the water were just getting on air on CNN and local NYC TV stations. The explosion had occurred just less than 1 hour before. By 11 PM news time, I believe the flight was id'ed as TWA 800 by then and of course many were speculating that it was a terror act. The initial investigations of TWA 800 proceeded as a possible terror act as TWA had been a target at least 2 times in the past. This would be one of the first crashes over sea waters where much of the remains of an aircraft were recovered and reassembled to assist in the investigation. If I am correct, the recovered remains of TWA 800 are stored in Virginia for use by the FAA to teach investigators as to this type of aircraft loss.

TWA 800 may have been one of major events that led to the eventual collapse of what was already a financially weak TWA a few years later.

I have never seen in person the memorial as to TWA 800, the pictures noted above suggests it is a very fitting memorial to all those lost that day.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

Francis S. Gabreski airport is about 6-7 miles north of the TWA800 impact zone. I had been flying gliders at Gabreski every weekend for 21 years and knew its pilot population well. The only time I ever saw 'FEDS" a FOK was when Al Gore flew in AF ll, B-757 for a fund raiser. The next time was the night of the 800 crash. I spent the night there and the place was covered with FBI agents, rescue ops, the 106th Air guard unit and so on. No NTSB, No TWA reps, No FAA. You could smell the jet fuel in the air. All night long flares dropped from C-130's illuminated the southern sky over the ocean to aid rescue/ search ops. The sound of choppers thumping through their descent reminded me of what Vietnam must have sounded like. Subsequently in the following days I was reluctant to go surfing as I was afraid of what may float past me. For months I would find foam cups, honeycomb parts, personal effects scattered all over. This was especially troubling as between waves I used to watch all the late Euro departures while sitting on my surfboard wondering what destination would welcome the aircraft flying into the darkening night sky to the east. But this event became a five month project for me photo documenting the event, the memorials and still has a profound effect on me. The Smith-point Park memorial is touted as being the closest landmass point to the impact zone. Actually it is the closest Public point. Westhampton Beach/ Dune Road is actually the closest point but the locals did not want the media and the connection to the event. Days after I went out on the Coast Guard Cutter, the Penobscot with the general press. We were only allowed to be a mile in proximity to the Grasp and Grapple (recovery Naval Ships). The investigators controlled the media on this one and the photos of recovered debris. My photo lab was closed to the public while the FBI and Suffolk County Police had the lab process the images they recorded and the lab techs were observed during the process so they would not duplicate any images. Another friend of mine worked for the ME assigned to the case...she described the findings. Terribly graphic!
I will never forget this event as long as Live and I will never forget the sights I saw in a local scrapyard in later years. The wreckage of N93119. As a local pilot every time I fly I look to the spot where another 4 tons of her hulk still remain on the ocean bottom and wonder how long it will take before the ocean gives up some more of her.
Shinnecock Inlet
shinnecock
N93119 powerplants


User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 28):

One thing that stood out to me when I investigated the crash for my class was how young one of the FE's was. The other three flight crew members were all highly experienced old timers. Some of them started flying in old piston aircraft. But one of the FE's was 24 years old on maybe his 30th hour of flight time with TWA. I just imagine how excited he must have been to be with the great crew on that flight heading across the Atlantic on the way to CDG.

That was Oliver Krick. He was on his IOE. Richard Campbell a retired captain was giving him his checkride.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Attendant Jill Ziemkiewicz

Jill had been with TWA since May of 1996. Flight 800 was her first international flight with TWA.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Service Manager Jacques Charbonnier
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Attendant Constance Charbonnier

The Charbonniers had been married for over 20yrs. They met on Flight 800 in the 1970's and died on Flight 800.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Attendant Janet Christopher

Her husband was an FBI agent who was later sent to investigate the crash


User currently offlineANITIX87 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 3308 posts, RR: 13
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6428 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting richierich (Reply 25):
Holy cow- that's creepy! Just curious, did the FBI interview you about Flight 800? Being on the previous flight and not knowing what caused the explosion, at that time, I might have expected them to start looking at the previous flight or two for any information. Do you remember your flight into JFK on either of these doomed aircraft?

I was 9 years old in 1996, and 11 years old in 1998, so I certainly didn't get contacted. I don't believe my parents did, but I never thought to ask them. Because I was so young, I don't remember much about the flights back, but I have two distinct memories about both. For TWA800, I have a vivid memory of walking out of the terminal and thinking, "Oh man, it's SO hot here today!" And I remember that the arrival in ATH two weeks prior was the single best landing I've ever been part of. I had no idea the plane had touched down until I heard the thrust reverse, and I remember thinking, "These TWA pilots are so good!" As for the SR flight, I don't remember anything about it specifically. However, I can, to this day, still remember (and I get shivers when I do) the feeling of complete disbelief when I saw the news that night. I remember the taste of iron in my mouth and the impression that maybe there should have been signs on my flights of the impending disaster that I should have noticed and told someone about.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 26):
Did I read this right? You were on both of these doomed airliners THE FLIGHT BEFORE each disaster?!

If so, I'm thinking a fear of flying might be healthy in your case. Of all the millions (billions) of flights around the world, to be 'one flight away' from two of the worst disasters in memory would understandably have that effect on a person. I personally would crawl under my bed and probably not come out.

Yeah, I was one flight away in both cases. Basically, don't ever get on a plane right after I do!

Quoting flymia (Reply 28):
That is remarkable and shocking at the same time due to the odds of that happening.

Yeah, it's something about which I've often wondered whether I should feel lucky to have just missed the fatal flights, or horrified about how close I came.

TIS



www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 28):
It would probably shut down all the crazy theories out there.

Nothing well ever shut down the crazy theories. It's a property of conspiracy theories that any contrary evidence is subsumed into the theory as "proof" of the ever-expanding coverup.

Tom.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 6128 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 33):

Tom, do you really believe the carcass of a greatly debilitated 747/100 had the ability to climb an additional 3,000-4,000ft?...(CIA)
While this airframes total service time exceeded its expected service life, according to a TWA mechanic, a friend of mine, N93119 was one of their most proud members of their fleet. He was the one to dipatch the aircraft. It is also not widely known the aircraft was to ferry an engine pod (fifth engine) under the wing on that flight. That is why the aircraft was delayed. The JT9 spare was on its way to JFK via 495 on Long Island from Babylon from the Ages Group. It was caught up in traffic and the flight susequently had to depart. The delay had nothing to do with "lost baggage".
Had this actually been a center wing tank event, the entire -100 and possibly -200 fleet would have been grounded pending convincing findings...at least decades ago. Never happened. Never a mention of it either.
In this case the word "theories" bothers me, while the reality of alternative "possibilities" exist. I'm surprised at you.
The 3rd image above was recorded in a 40 yard container in a scrap yard. This disposition of much of the airframe had been kept a secret from the families for some time. At the time of this photo, the investigation was still on going. Family members themselves told me they had absolutely no knowledge of such material disposal in a scrap yard. Many are still unanware of it but at this juncture...it's water under the bridge.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 5875 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
Tom, do you really believe the carcass of a greatly debilitated 747/100 had the ability to climb an additional 3,000-4,000ft?..

Yep. A 747 in flight has a *lot* of kinetic energy.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
Had this actually been a center wing tank event, the entire -100 and possibly -200 fleet would have been grounded pending convincing findings.

No. Grounding a fleet is incredibly rare and you don't do it unless/until you *have* convincing findings *and* those findings point to a very high risk of another event before you can get the fix installed. TWA800 didn't meet either criteria, let alone both.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 34):
In this case the word "theories" bothers me, while the reality of alternative "possibilities" exist. I'm surprised at you.

There's a huge difference between alternative possibilities (which the NTSB, FAA, and OEM's acknowledge) and conspiracy theories. The former, of which there are several around TWA800, are all possible and cannot be ruled out but are less consistent with the evidence, and less probable, than the probable cause. The conspiracy theories, of which there are several more, are provably ludicrous and don't deserve the same type of consideration even if both are "theories."

Tom.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
Yep. A 747 in flight has a *lot* of kinetic energy.

It is aerodynamically impossible in this case...consider 1549 that ingested geese and shut down both power plants. N601US was an airframe that remained in tact and at 3200 ft agl he had no chance of increasing altitude with the use of his kinetic energy to better his chances of making any of the close by, 5 fields. in addition, TWA 800 during separation of section 41 would have at best, lost 50% of its climb power due to human injestion and airframe fod on #2 powerplants. Both powerplants were found to have ingested human remains. Lastly, a giant 20 foot wide by 25 foot high front end openeing in the fuselage would have in no other terms, slammed the brakes on. Despite the existance of kinetic energy, it would have been short term. Accordong to the local ME. all passengers aft of the brake suffered from a forward left quartering shock of 60 g's that broke all of their necks. That indicate rapid deceleration and a blow to the south from the left side of the aircraft. The aft PAX faired better and according to the ME findings..a few PAX may have still been alive far back in the tail until contact with the ocean.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
No. Grounding a fleet is incredibly rare and you don't do it unless/until you *have* convincing findings *and* those findings point to a very high risk of another event before you can get the fix installed. TWA800 didn't meet either criteria, let alone both.

Types have been grounded for far less...

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
There's a huge difference between alternative possibilities (which the NTSB, FAA, and OEM's acknowledge) and conspiracy theories.

Don't know how many investigations you have been to but this one was handled differently. It was obvious the NTSB did not share in the FEDS enthusiasm on this one...gotta go...g


User currently offlinemax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 8):
I would like to ask a question for anyone else on this board who reads this, has a crash ever sparked your interest in aviation?

Sadly yes, I remember watching the coverage of ValuJet 592, which initially sparked my interest in aviation and the whole process of investigating plane crashes. It was shortly after that when TWA 800 went down and I spent the next few years following that investigation. I was 13 at the time and was especially interested since I was born just outside of Montoursville (we moved when I was two so I had no connection to the area other than being born there).

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
It is aerodynamically impossible in this case...consider 1549 that ingested geese and shut down both power plants. N601US was an airframe that remained in tact and at 3200 ft agl he had no chance of increasing altitude with the use of his kinetic energy to better his chances of making any of the close by, 5 fields.

But 1549 didn't lose any weight. My understanding has always been that the nose of TWA800 broke off first, which would have caused a massive weight shift to the back of the aircraft. At speed and with a higher AoA the wings would generate more lift on a significantly lighter airframe until it stalled or broke up and stopped generating lift. A 3000-4000ft climb doesn't seem unreasonable.

1549 probably could have done the same thing (traded airspeed for altitude) but purposely stalling an aircraft at 3200 feet above one of the most populated areas in the world would more than likely be disastrous.


I'm not interested in conspiracy theories but please correct me if I'm wrong in my thinking, I'm more than willing to be educated if that scenario is unlikely or impossible.


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
N601US was an airframe that remained in tact and at 3200 ft agl he had no chance of increasing altitude with the use of his kinetic energy to better his chances of making any of the close by, 5 fields.

He absolutely could have increased altitude by trading kinetic energy for gravitational potential energy (i.e. climbing and slowing). He didn't because that would have drastically shortened his glide range (whatever he gained in altitude would have been more than lost by having to pitch over to recover best glide speed). TWA800 had no such restriction; it climbed until it stalled and/or the wings came off from overload (difficult to tell in what order that happened).

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
in addition, TWA 800 during separation of section 41 would have at best, lost 50% of its climb power due to human injestion and airframe fod on #2 powerplants.

Yes, but you can do a 3000-4000 zoom climb with little thrust if you start at speed and you don't care how slow you get.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
Lastly, a giant 20 foot wide by 25 foot high front end openeing in the fuselage would have in no other terms, slammed the brakes on.

Not really. It would obviously be far draggier than a clean fuselage but, relative to brakes, nowhere near as bad.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
Despite the existance of kinetic energy, it would have been short term.

Yes. That's why the plane only climbed 3000-4000'.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 36):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 35):
No. Grounding a fleet is incredibly rare and you don't do it unless/until you *have* convincing findings *and* those findings point to a very high risk of another event before you can get the fix installed. TWA800 didn't meet either criteria, let alone both.

Types have been grounded for far less...

Such as?

Quoting max550 (Reply 37):
My understanding has always been that the nose of TWA800 broke off first, which would have caused a massive weight shift to the back of the aircraft. At speed and with a higher AoA the wings would generate more lift on a significantly lighter airframe until it stalled or broke up and stopped generating lift. A 3000-4000ft climb doesn't seem unreasonable.

Correct.

Tom.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 38):
TWA800 had no such restriction; it climbed until it stalled and/or the wings came off from overload (difficult to tell in what order that happened).


While I'll still hold fast against it having the ability to climb 3k as the CIA depict the ascent, I would agree that immediate cg movement radically to the aft, along with the forces of drag/ gravity quickly acting here...what remained of any aerodynamic influence would have resulted in a sudden tail down, possible roll off to a stall and then wing failure. I had seen the pieces of the wing planks and they were rolled and distorted like an abused sheet of cardboard. It was mind boggling.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 38):
Not really. It would obviously be far draggier than a clean fuselage but, relative to brakes, nowhere near as bad.


The 'open tube" after section 41 had a cousin in another catastrophe. The Challenger disaster. After the separation of the cockpit pod, the portion of the shuttle aft of it was torn apart by tunneling as the investigators called it. The aerodynamics of an open ended tube shredded what remained of the airframe till the damage progressed to the engines, followed by another explosion. Not even that debris rose 4000 ft. The booster rockets did but video of them easily demonstrates that they too struggled. At the point of the explosion, 46000 ft, they were travelling at 2900 ft/sec. Now that is kinetic energy...

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 38):
Yes. That's why the plane only climbed 3000-4000'.


Every evening when I surf all the Euro flights pass by on their shallow cruise climbs from JFK to Europe. They are heavy and I would guess the climb angle would be 3-5 degrees?...not sure what heavy aircraft climb at but I try to scale out what 3-4000 ft above the airframe would be based on the scale of the wingspan, etc...you get what I mean...that is a lot of air, even at 300 MPH. Typically the climb angles that I view are so shallow that again...the CIA video just escapes me.
I was fortunate enough to be invited to a Dinner with a large group of TWA mechanics and two TWA Captains after AA took over TWA. Of course the only conversation besides their retirement plans was 800. When asked about the CIA cruise climb...it was the first time that evening any of them laughed.

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 38):
Such as?


Lockheed Electra's, DC-10's, Dash 8-400's, MD80's, Osprey tilt rotors, cobra Choppers, Super Stallion Hilos, Many Civil aircraft....Point is...if center wing wiring in Geriatric 747 or a rewritten and published maintenance procedure would be the cause of center wing fuel tank explosions, then the type deserves to be grounded till the problem is isolated, identified and corrected. Groundings were more common in the earlier years but ironically accidents and groundings have been contributory towards new, more comprehensive maintenance procedures and accountability but groundings are still always a possibility, especially where new designs/ technology are introduced to service. Just these days too much on the line to force groundings so they are rare.


User currently offlineSaabFA71 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5219 times:

The crash of TWA Flight 800 is forever singed into my mind. I was a flight attendant for Business Express (Delta Connection) and based at JFK at the time. Early on the night of July 17, I had just gotten back to my crash pad in Queens after a two-day trip and turned on the TV. One of the local news affiliates (Channel 11 or Channel 4......can't recall which) broke through while "Seinfeld" was on and the news anchor announced that a 747 had gone down shortly after taking off from JFK. The anchor went on to say that there were several eyewitness reports of an explosion. I immediately called my family back home to let them know what was happening up in New York, where I was at, and that I was okay.........even though they knew I wasn't working for TWA. The rest of the night, my roommates and I stayed fixed to the television occasionally changing channels between CNN and the local stations trying to learn what was happening. All night long, I kept thinking, "my god, my flight taxied past the TWA terminal after we arrived (at JFK) and I saw 747s parked there. I wonder if one of them was the one that crashed?" Early the next morning I was going home because I was off for a few days and I was non-reving on a flight from JFK to DCA and as I arrived at the Delta terminal I could just barely make out several satellite antennaes set up in the vicinity of the TWA terminal. That sight sent a slight chill through me because I knew what they were there for. I would say that was the closest I've ever been to a major air disaster.
May those who were lost on Flight 800 forever rest in peace.



I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1980 posts, RR: 21
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

What type of equipment was TW800 usually operated with in the 90's? I have a couple TWA schedules from around that time and I never see the 747 listed as the scheduled aircraft...it always seemed to be either the 767 or L1011.

Additionally, in a somewhat twisted blessing I guess, there were only 230 pax and crew onboard in comparison to the 747's 300+ seat capacity...but only 212 pax (with many non-revs and transfers from the FCO flight too apparently) on a summer TATL flight to Paris seems pretty light, was this normal for TWA or for flight 800?

I hope this doesn't come across as morbid, that's not my intention, the 230 pax and crew on TW800 were 230 too many on this tragic flight, but these were a couple things that I've always been curious about.

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 31):

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Service Manager Jacques Charbonnier
Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):
Flight Attendant Constance Charbonnier

The Charbonniers had been married for over 20yrs. They met on Flight 800 in the 1970's and died on Flight 800.


Wow, I had remembered reading before that they were married but had no idea they met on TW800 decades earlier...eerie.


User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 41):
I hope this doesn't come across as morbid, that's not my intention, the 230 pax and crew on TW800 were 230 too many on this tragic flight, but these were a couple things that I've always been curious about.

The fact that there were only 230 on board has always seemed odd to be me. Especially since the FCO flight had taken a mechanical and the crew FCO crew & passengers were onboard.


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2318 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4634 times:

TWA 800 even has left a legacy on the town I live in near Houston. The jail here is named after Pam Lynchner, one of the passengers. May her and everyone else on Flight 800 rest in peace.


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4519 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 39):

I'm no expert technically, but bear in mind that TW800 was going significantly faster than US1549. The bird strike occurred soon after take off and at less than 200kts. TW800 was at FL130 and travelling in excess of 300 kts.

Also, what was the situation with the engines? I thought I read that they kept running at power for a while, whereas the US aircraft obviously lost almost all power fairly swiftly.

It's a horrifying situation, but I think that it's very feasible that the aircraft kept climbing, with or without a loss of power, for another 3000 feet or so.

If you look hard enough it's easy to find conspiracy theories, and they make interesting reading. Sadly, in this instance, the reality was as spectacularly horrific as the conspiracies.



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4496 times:

Quoting max550 (Reply 37):
But 1549 didn't lose any weight.

And, the flight crew was still in control.

With all due respect guys, we are wandering from the initial point of this post. Theories and debates shouldn't be a part of it. It's about the people (and also the ship for some) who were lost in one of the most tragic accidents in history.

Let's keep our eye on the ball this time, shall we?

Long live That Wonderful Airline - TWA



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineabrown532 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days ago) and read 4456 times:

Of all the air crashes I have heard of over the years the one that always sticks in my mind is TWA800, the way the aircraft broke up, climbed, then broke up again whilst on fire whilst alot of passengers were still alive sends chills down my spine of how horrific it must have been to be sitting in the rear of that aircraft.

Last time I flew back from JFK-LHR on a BA 747 we flew over around where the aircraft went down and I just sat there watching the flight tracker on the screen thinking about the disaster.

RIP to all those on board.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 45):
Let's keep our eye on the ball this time, shall we?


And this is a site relevant to the machines that offer carriage of people, in safety and sometimes not. No one here will dispute the human tragedy. Many pilots and mechanics here so many are interested in facts they might not have otherwise heard about. Nothing wrong with peripheral issues still regarding the topic. Respectfully,...this is not baseball.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3419 posts, RR: 5
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 46):
the way the aircraft broke up, climbed, then broke up again whilst on fire whilst alot of passengers were still alive sends chills down my spine of how horrific it must have been to be sitting in the rear of that aircraft.

I was under the impression that the depressurization of the aircraft when the front detached, was force enough to have rendered everyone in the aircraft unconscious, is this incorrect?



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 48):

13,800ft agl is still breathable although very difficult given so many aspects of the event. ME evidence though did point out that some were alive at point of water impact. The irony of it all. Flying in such incredible machines can also offer the most graphically and horrible scenarios any one could possibly imagine. Just everyday people on their way to a nice vacation or whatever their reason. The magnitude of the event is mind boggling.


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Question About TWA Flight 800...... posted Tue Aug 9 2005 00:20:23 by Alberchico
TWA Flight 800 (Quick Question) posted Mon Dec 6 2004 10:28:51 by Bigphilnyc
"Conspiracy? - TWA Flight 800" On History Channel posted Sun Oct 3 2004 22:29:36 by OB1504
The Crew Of TWA Flight 800 posted Wed Jul 7 2004 15:25:07 by Usair320
TWA Flight 800...TWA's Organizational Culture posted Mon Apr 19 2004 15:46:46 by Planespotting
Seven-Year Anniversary Of TWA Flight 800 posted Thu Jul 17 2003 18:44:48 by JetboyTWA
TWA Flight 800..Press Conference posted Sun Jul 16 2000 20:46:16 by Cmsgop
TWA Flight 800 posted Fri Apr 21 2000 17:05:01 by CNegroni
TWA flight 800 posted Sat Jan 2 1999 04:49:38 by FAUnited7
RE: TWA Flight 800 and TWA's fleet / AA727 posted Mon Nov 2 1998 21:33:40 by JJC