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SAA And New Aircraft  
User currently offlineSA744 From South Africa, joined Nov 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10561 times:

Hello All

With recent topics on the above heading, i was chatting to a friend last night who happened to mention that some SAA tech guys are/have being sent on training for the new aircraft that SAA are intending to get. My guess ia that Boeing might have this RFP in the hat, the word out is that they will go for 777ER and 777LR and maybe even some 789's. Any further info.
Thanks

[Edited 2012-07-16 23:10:09]

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineweebie From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10549 times:

They'll stick with Airbus.

User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10325 times:

Flew out of LHR the other day and overheard the gate agents talking about SAA getting 777's. Also heard that from another source in SAA, but until it's official, it's probably all rumours.

User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3397 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10239 times:

I thought that SAA were short of cash at the moment and weren't placing any orders ?

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10220 times:

Gate agents and cabin crew are the LAST people to know.

Why would SA want to ditch their A346s for something that cannot lift as much as far ex-JNB? Can the 77L even do IAD or JFK non-stop from JNB with a full payload? Not many places where the A346 makes sense over the triple seven but JNB is certainly one of those places.

Why would SA want to ditch their (brand new) A332s that are absolutely ideal for CPT runs?

A320NEOs - yes. A321NEOs - definitely.

Ok 789s as A343 replacements I get but 772ERs and 77Ls? Dream on.

[Edited 2012-07-17 02:23:54]


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineka From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 661 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9871 times:

Quoting weebie (Reply 1):
They'll stick with Airbus.

...especially when hearing on the net that SA is in talks to lease GF's stored A343s.

Ka.



Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8422 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9804 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Why would SA want to ditch their A346s for something that cannot lift as much as far ex-JNB? Can the 77L even do IAD or JFK non-stop from JNB with a full payload

Its already being done, Delta flies a nonstop JNB to ATL daily nonstop on a 777-200LR. Atlanta is about 8500 miles from JNB, JFK is about 7950 from JNB.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9894 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9756 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

Its already being done, Delta flies a nonstop JNB to ATL daily nonstop on a 777-200LR. Atlanta is about 8500 miles from JNB, JFK is about 7950 from JNB.

To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route.

A388

[Edited 2012-07-17 05:13:37]

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9707 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):

Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 9620 times:

I think South African Airways will snap up as many A340 models as possible for one reason: they fly a LOT of long over-water flights that other airlines don't do. From JNB and CPT, flying to South America or Australia involves flying over long stretches of ocean with very few diversion airports nearby.

User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 9508 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route.
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"

You guys are assuming that SAA's nonstop A346 flights to (or more specifically from) the US are operating at "full payload." Up until last year SAA was operating from JFK with a stop in DKR before deciding to go nonstop. It is likely that that flight is taking a payload hit. Their IAD flight still stops at DKR on the return. Yes, 4 engines perform better at JNB than 2 engine aircraft...but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR. Even the westbound flights to the US are pushing up against the A340's maximum range.

Note though that I would be surprised to see them order 777s.

[Edited 2012-07-17 06:15:05]

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4005 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days ago) and read 9471 times:

Before I rejoined A.net, there were a lot of threads on the topic of SAA and the A380, and one of the main arguments against SAA getting it was that they would have to park it up during a lay over as there isnt enough uplift for them to do any more than a single trip per day.

When I was in JoBerg last January, I was staying in a hotel overlooking the north side of the airport - and every single day an Air France and Lufthansa A380 would arrive, discharge their passengers and park up for about 12 hours. Thats two A380s from different airlines sat doing nothing.

If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

(Note - this post purposefully ignores the other arguments against the A380 for SAA, I just wanted to respond to one previous aspect).


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9894 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

Quoting poLOT (Reply 10):
but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR

... but with more capacity  

A388


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8370 times:
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Quoting poLOT (Reply 10):
but the A346 also has a lot less range than the 772LR

What about picking up some used A345s? The most ideal aircraft to start new services to the US, Canada and East Asia without adding a brand new aircraft type.


User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8180 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 13):
What about picking up some used A345s? The most ideal aircraft to start new services to the US, Canada and East Asia without adding a brand new aircraft type.

There are plenty of used A345s available. Airbus even has some new, never been used, frames. The complete lack of any apparent interest in acquiring them at prices airlines deem fit demonstrates just how subpar they are viewed in today's competitive environment.


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6793 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 11):
Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Yes, but AF and LH also fly the A380 on routes where they don't park them all day, unlike SAA where almost every longhaul destination have a very long groundtime.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3368 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 11):

When I was in JoBerg last January, I was staying in a hotel overlooking the north side of the airport - and every single day an Air France and Lufthansa A380 would arrive, discharge their passengers and park up for about 12 hours. Thats two A380s from different airlines sat doing nothing.

If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

(Note - this post purposefully ignores the other arguments against the A380 for SAA, I just wanted to respond to one previous aspect).

Parking one A380 out of your fleet for 12 hours is workable for LH or AF, but an airline with the routes SAA has would mean parking a substantial percentage of your A380 fleet, not unlike SAA does with their fleet currently.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8422 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5518 times:
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Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 6):


Key part of that sentence is "with a full payload"
Quoting A388 (Reply 7):
To my knowledge this flight is weight restricted so the 777 may not be the ideal aircraft for the route

What airplane would be more "ideal" for this flight ? What is a "full payload " on a flight with a high airport for a 16 hour flight ? Whatever DL carries is a "full payload".


User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
Why would SA want to ditch their (brand new) A332s that are absolutely ideal for CPT runs?

If the A332 is so ideal for CPT, why is SA dropping a flagship route like LHR-CPT?    The 788 would make more sense here, it is a long thin route specialist  



Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 11):
If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Don't give SA too much credit... LOL. Difference being that LH and AF are run properly (or rather, not run into the ground). SAA couldn't turn a profit with a 744 either, yet many airlines do.

SAA are whining again for a R6 BILLION handout from the taxpayer once more. To sustain their whims with fleet choices.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5351 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2862 times:

Quoting speedbird128 (Reply 19):
If Lufthansa and AF could make the A380 profitable doing that, Im sure SAA could.

Don't give SA too much credit... LOL. Difference being that LH and AF are run properly (or rather, not run into the ground). SAA couldn't turn a profit with a 744 either, yet many airlines do.

Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380? FRA maybe do they still run CPT-FRA? JNB-GRU looks to be 11 weekly maybe there? JFK?


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8422 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2682 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 16):
Parking one A380 out of your fleet for 12 hours is workable for LH or AF, but an airline with the routes SAA has would mean parking a substantial percentage of your A380 fleet, not unlike SAA does with their fleet currently.

IF SAA were to have 4 A380 for disscusions sake some would be parked at LHR and JNB all day between flights.


User currently offlineimag From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2007, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2595 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 20):
Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380? FRA maybe do they still run CPT-FRA? JNB-GRU looks to be 11 weekly maybe there? JFK?

Not sure Heathrow is an option, unless they go to one flight. The usual JNB flights are the A343 and A332 and more than once I've seen two A332's (and the Cape Town one) used. My flight last month was downgraded to the A332. That said, I've never been on a SA flight between LHR and JNB that hasn't been less than 95% full. But then I guess they'll have the uplift of the Cape Town flight beind dropped.

Doesn't the bilateral say that SA have to have two flights? I'm not sure, just read something on here.

[Edited 2012-07-19 05:00:51]

User currently offlinespeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 20):
Where else other than LHR would SAA would have the demand to run an A380?

They personally don't think they have the demand on any route to warrant an A380. And if they did have the demand, I don't think they would manage to make it profitable anyway...



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
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