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UA Pilot Strike Vote Results?  
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 865 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

Has anyone seen the results of the UA pilot strike vote? IIRC, the voting closed this morning, so I'm guessing the results may be out already.


My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineav8r915 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9624 times:

STRIKE AUTHORIZATION BALLOT RESULTS
Strike Authorization Voting by the pilots of United Continental Holdings, Inc. ended this morning, at 1000 EDT. To our pilots who took the time to vote in this important ballot, we thank you. You have demonstrated the unity of our joint pilot group and given your leadership a tool that will assist us in attaining the industry-leading contract we deserve. Our resolve is clear.
Like the final ratification of the contract by the pilot group, ALPA policy requires the decision to authorize the MECs to call for a strike to be confirmed by a totaled vote of both pilot groups. You have spoken loudly, clearly and with a unified voice. With a 94 percent participation rate, the combined pilot group voted 99 percent in favor of authorizing use of the ultimate leverage - a legal strike - when needed and allowed by law. Management should take note: pushing this pilot group to a strike would be ill-advised. Our pilots are united in their willingness to withhold their services.
No one wants a strike. Our goal has always been - and remains – the achievement of a JCBA without the need to withhold our services. However, our pilots have worked far too long under concessionary agreements to not avail ourselves of every tool necessary to reach a deal and improve the lives of our pilots and their families. The power that strike authorization provides to the union’s efforts in reaching a JCBA cannot be ignored.
Capt. Jay Pierce Capt. Jay Heppner
CAL MEC Chairman UAL MEC Chairman


User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9590 times:

Great.......

So it's gonna happen. Why not the pilots work together to get a contract rather than waste their time picketing. Be proactive, not reactive. YOU want that contract now?? work for it. I, being a part of UAL, would rather see you be positive than throw such an airline into the ground....

There are countless pilots who will gladly do your job, and, for far less than you currently get.


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9584 times:

av8r915, thanks for the quick reply. That's a higher approval rate than I would have guessed, so I guess the frustration is great for not only customers, but also employees.


My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9531 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):
Great.......

So it's gonna happen. Why not the pilots work together to get a contract rather than waste their time picketing. Be proactive, not reactive. YOU want that contract now?? work for it. I, being a part of UAL, would rather see you be positive than throw such an airline into the ground....

There are countless pilots who will gladly do your job, and, for far less than you currently get.

The CO pilots started negotiating nearly 5 years ago and the UA pilots started negotiations over 3 1/2 years ago.

Is that what you mean by "work for it."? If not, please explain.

[Edited 2012-07-17 11:18:00]


My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9469 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):
There are countless pilots who will gladly do your job, and, for far less than you currently get.

I think you're wrong. I for one would absolutely love to work at a major but wages have gone down enough, and I think most pilots would agree with me. If the company won't play ball...and when they're sending in airplanes to CO hubs in violation of a contractual scope agreement, I'd say UAL started out the whole process completely wrong IMHO.

But I'm just an outsider...



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1550 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9372 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):

I won't. The pilots are pissed off at the bad management, and they are tired of being jerked around. Te blame for this debacle lies squarely on Smisek'a shoulders. The emperor has no clothes, and he talking to himself with all the working together mantra. UA needs new leadership.



It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8227 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9350 times:

lol I like how they say "services" like they're providing something out of the goodness of their hearts and aren't employees of a company that is paying them to do a job.

That said, management in the airline business does blow. If you don't mind me flying Delta from now on, I don't mind you sticking it to them!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9351 times:

A strike in today's enviornment will serve no one. If allowed by Obama, which I seriously doubt, it will only help the competitors. AA could be a major beneficary domestically when they need it most and foreign carriers will reap the benefits internationally.

I blame UA management as well as the pilots of putting their own issues before the public, the stockholders and most of all their fellow employees interests. It is a sad day when in the last three and a half years UA and for the last five years CO hasn't been able to come to an agreement. It's shame on both sides.

Such an action could very likely destroy UA,and force another bankruptcy. All employees, including the pilots will take a huge hit. This is not the time for such an action as public confidence in UA appears to be shrinking already and a strike will drive it even lower.

If this isn't resolved quickly the board of directors of United Continental Holdings need to take a good hard look at Smisek and his abilites to run an airline of this size. Many seem to be questioning that already. And the pilots, need to tell their leadership that despite the vote, they expect an agreement shortly or they will be looking to new leadership. To have this unresolved for so many years, it's not the fault of one side or the other, both sides are to blame. The choice is simple enough, either come to an agreement or agree to destroy the airline.



Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 777 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9242 times:

Smisek needs to pay up. Delta's Richard Anderson paid for labor's cooperation in advance and the results are apparent and very positive. For some reason, Jeff Smisek thinks he can create a world class airline without rewarding the employees for their hard work and in recognition of their sacrifices in bankruptcy. We can all see those results.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 8):
If this isn't resolved quickly the board of directors of United Continental Holdings need to take a good hard look at Smisek and his abilites to run an airline of this size.


If they haven't by this time with all the outcry from the employees and customers they never will.

I have never been in favor of any strike, but in this case after the sCO group in negotiation 5+ years and with numerous trips already purchased on UA for the next few months I completely support the idea. Slimezek and the entire management team are a disgrace. I've not heard one passenger have anything positive to say about him or upper management when the safety video begins (one blessing of flying on a non-IFE aircraft), nor any employee that I engage in conversation with during flights.

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 8):
The choice is simple enough, either come to an agreement or agree to destroy the airline.


  



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineunited319 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9101 times:
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They've already started what appears to be a "slow down". ORD has been in pretty bad IROP shape the past couple of weeks. The other night FRA, LHR, and AMS all cancelled. Pilots have been refusing aircraft, doing gate returns, etc. Looks like Summer of 2000 all over again.


It's Time To Fly
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 865 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 9030 times:

Quoting united319 (Reply 11):
They've already started what appears to be a "slow down". ORD has been in pretty bad IROP shape the past couple of weeks. The other night FRA, LHR, and AMS all cancelled. Pilots have been refusing aircraft, doing gate returns, etc. Looks like Summer of 2000 all over again.

IIRC, UA ALPA is already under an injunction to not do anything illegal, like a "slow down." If there is evidence of that, why hasn't UA run to the court?

Did you see the letter the UA COO posted? In essence, he admitted that the operational problems were company caused (UA will be adding longer flight times, more connecting time, more boarding time, more parts and maintenance time).



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8953 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):

No, the only pilots willing to do the work for less are scabs and fortunately they are few and far between. Certainly not prevalent enough to keep UA going anywhere near full capacity. Nobody at UA wants a strike but the pilot group has clearly been more than patient. It isn't as if they're asking for the moon, just a fair deal and less outsourcing.

The UA/CO pilot groups have been working for years to get new contracts, and deserve better than they have gotten from their so called leaders. It's time for Smisek to pay up, then leave, it is clear he is failing.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlinemm320cap From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 227 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8904 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 2):

Great.......

So it's gonna happen. Why not the pilots work together to get a contract rather than waste their time picketing. Be proactive, not reactive. YOU want that contract now?? work for it. I, being a part of UAL, would rather see you be positive than throw such an airline into the ground....

There are countless pilots who will gladly do your job, and, for far less than you currently get.

You clearly have no idea how contract negotiations, or the RLA works.

Let me be very clear, no one WANTS to strike. But here are the facts: Smisek promised a quick joint contract when the merger was announced in exchange for pilot cooperation. Negotiations were FLYING, but as soon as the merger was approved, management backtracked on all the progress and promises they had made. Smisek quickly negotiated a contract worth TRIPLE his previous compensation. I'll let our operational performance speak for whether he was worth the money or not. We have lived under bankruptcy concessions used to save the airline for almost a DECADE. We are extremely close to the lowest paid pilot group in the entire industry. Only USAirways East and Sun Country are lower. Smisek and crew negotiated for 15 MONTHS on work rules. The work rules we asked for were sUAL's work rules. They were previously agreed to by the company, who then redacted (see above). Mind you, these work rules are still atrocious BANKRUPTCY work rules. Delta, our main competitor, has just closed their second contract (early) since the last time we have had a contract. AMR is voting on a TA that would give their pilots (already paid substantially higher than us) a pay RAISE in Ch 11.

As to your last point.... There are lots of people who would be happy to do Smisek's job for substantially less than he is paid as well. What's your point? Sounds like a pretty good reason to have a UNION, huh??


User currently offlinemm320cap From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 227 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8894 times:

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 12):

They've already started what appears to be a "slow down". ORD has been in pretty bad IROP shape the past couple of weeks. The other night FRA, LHR, and AMS all cancelled. Pilots have been refusing aircraft, doing gate returns, etc. Looks like Summer of 2000 all over again.

You can place the blame SQUARELY on a poorly managed airline's feet. Even they have admitted they fouled up the summer and have recently increased spare aircraft. I've NEVER seen the operation more poorly run than it is right now. No personnel, no spare parts, no organization, no spare aircraft, no spare pilots, etc. etc. They have chosen to run the operation absolutely as lean as possible. That only works until you have a hiccup with a broken plane, some weather, etc. Then the dominos start to fall. I've been late about 85% of my flights in the past month, and NOT ONE of them had anything to do with me. I waited 55 minutes for a required maintenance release document in IAH the other day. Why? I finally got the ramp supervisor to tell me. There was only 1 person in IAH that could sign off the A320 MRD's. Do you have any idea how many 320's fly in and out of IAH now??? Genius planning Jeff. Genius.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8785 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 7):
If you don't mind me flying Delta from now on

Not at all, Welcome aboard!



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8740 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 8):
I blame UA management as well as the pilots of putting their own issues before the public, the stockholders and most of all their fellow employees interests. It is a sad day when in the last three and a half years UA and for the last five years CO hasn't been able to come to an agreement. It's shame on both sides.

Such an action could very likely destroy UA,and force another bankruptcy. All employees, including the pilots will take a huge hit. This is not the time for such an action as public confidence in UA appears to be shrinking already and a strike will drive it even lower.

There is plenty of blame to go around.

I hope this is used to get to a resolution that doesn't screw customers that also allows UA to be profitable.

If there needs to be a redo of management contracts, so be it.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinestyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days ago) and read 8723 times:

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 13):
It isn't as if they're asking for the moon, just a fair deal and less outsourcing.

Can you or someone else shed some light on what the actual facts of the deal in question are?

I appreciate the passion in here but most are only speaking on emotion and not on the facts that both sides are dealing with. Its hard to really come to a conclusion on what the root of the cause is, I know many will say Smisek and while that may or may not be true I still think it would be more beneficial to see what the actual differences from both sides are.

Does anyone know if it is true that UA offered their pilots a contract very similar to the recently ratified DL agreement + slighly more pay? If so, then why such a different take on what DL pilots see as a good deal while UA pilots see as a bad one?


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8665 times:

I think mm320cap did a good job of illustrating some of the bigger sticking points between the pilots and management. Mostly that terms were seemingly agreed upon and then redacted by management.

The last few times of spoken with UA pilots I haven't heard about a DL plus some type of offer, perhaps a UA pilot in the know could add more insight than I can.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8624 times:

Quoting Reply 18):
I appreciate the passion in here but most are only speaking on emotion and not on the facts that both sides are dealing with.



I'm going to have to disagree with that statement, as I believe the pilot group is very well aware of the issues. I'll bet the employees will chime in with exactly what the issues are in time. One nice fat issue is who will do the flying of aircraft with more than 50 seats.

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 19):
I think mm320cap did a good job of illustrating some of the bigger sticking points between the pilots and management.

Yes, a great explanation.

[quote=style,reply=18]Does anyone know if it is true that UA offered their pilots a contract very similar to the recently ratified



I have heard that from a sCO pilot.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8608 times:
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Can anybody summarize what are the terms of the contract being proposed to the pilots by the company?

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8227 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8596 times:

Quoting mm320cap (Reply 14):
Smisek quickly negotiated a contract worth TRIPLE his previous compensation.

Which is exactly why he wanted the merger at all in the first place. It's not about better customer service, better employee morale, better pay, or better opportunities. It's about padding his resume and inflating his own value. Smisek is of the same vein as Lorenzo and Icahn.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 16):
Not at all, Welcome aboard!

DAL seems to be doing everything right lately, and their employees are content. UA employees, even when not on strike, are miserable. I don't fault them at all, in fact I really do sympathize with them, but why would anyone want to fly an airline with cut-rate service and the threat of a major work stoppage looming? Nothing about UAL is appealing these days. Thanks, Jeff, thanks for creating such a wonderful company!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinestyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8575 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 20):
I'm going to have to disagree with that statement, as I believe the pilot group is very well aware of the issues.

I think you're missing my point. I fully believe the pilot group is aware of the issues at hand. As this is a forum to discuss this kind of stuff, my point is I would rather look at the facts and what is really dividing both groups other than just hear about Smisek being a bad leader. Regardless of if thats the case or not, there have been offers made and I think those points should be discussed here as well.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8521 times:

Quoting Reply 23):
Smisek being a bad leader.

Fact

Quoting N766UA (Reply 22):
Nothing about UAL is appealing these days

Fact

Quoting N766UA (Reply 22):
Thanks, Jeff, thanks for creating such a wonderful company!

Fact



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
25 N766UA : I can agree with that, but it won't happen. Unions don't operate that way. You're going to hear a lot of mud-slinging, and while most of it is warran
26 flyhossd : That's very inaccurate. UA publicly offered a "DL+$1" but it was a match to DL's PREVIOUS contract in name only, it contained concessions in every ot
27 FlyASAGuy2005 : You can't be serious...
28 NorthstarBoy : Honestly, I think a declared strike before November Sixth is a lose-lose for Obama. If he breaks the strike he's going to lose the support of the Unio
29 FlyASAGuy2005 : At the end of the day, if they want to strike they will and there's nothing the POTUS can do. I say that meaning yes, he can impose an executive order
30 B737900ER : You can blame management all you want, but the fact of the matter is the same management group has been able to come to agreements with three flight a
31 FlyASAGuy2005 : What does that prove? That is in no way indicative of either side's willingness to come to an agreement. However..FACT: the pilots have much more to
32 StuckInCA : This seems like a pretty bad situation. This is one of the few cases in recent memory where I think the labor group has a really significant issue, bu
33 B737900ER : It shows that it can be done. It takes more than one party to drag this stuff out. The other work groups realized that things have changed (especiall
34 hmflyer : Fact of the matter is that UCH is negotiating a joint contract with the pilots. This is something that HAS NOT yet been accomplished with any other e
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : This alone tells me you really don't understand what's going on. The line pilots that regularly post may be able to educate you. I did have first han
36 rj777 : Just out of curiosity, who approved the livery for the combined company? Was it Smisek? If so, maybe it'll go out the door with him. Maybe part of thi
37 TWA772LR : Don't flame me for this... I have talked to a retired sCO pilot and a current sCO pilot. They have both told me they think the strike will not happen.
38 boeing773ER : This has not been a good week for UA at all, lots of bad publicity. Besides the 737 order but besides that this week:: Pilots threaten to strike Websi
39 GoBoeing : That's always what a strike is. Going on strike is never the plan for any group of workers. It is the last resort when management still refuses to be
40 Max Q : Very well said. Don't count on that theory. The anger and frustration towards Smisek is beyond anything I have seen since the days of Lorenzo. His 'm
41 Post contains images flyhossd : And NOT ONE joint contract. You're right, three separate flight attendant contracts have been completed, but the pilots are negotiating a joint contr
42 777ord : LOL. WE can hope, right!? If there is a glimmer of pride maybe.. just maybe. Perhaps I am just a bit too optomistic.
43 congaboy : Many moons ago, I was a non-contract employee at Eastern, and while I tried to see both sides of the management vs. IAM struggle, I ended up seeing t
44 T5towbar : All true. We all have been waiting for contracts, but things keep being dragged out by management. When this merger was announced, it was said that j
45 Post contains images FriendlySkies : I can't think of another time in history when there has been so much disdain from both employees AND customers for an airline CEO. Frankly, it is sho
46 fco110 : I fly to Kona on Saturday from ORD via Denver then return next Thursday. Is there an effective window for this or are we in it?
47 crj200faguy : I had the privilege of meeting Gordon Bethune's son last year on a flight to IAH. He's a CO retiree but bought a ticket on another airline because he
48 futureualpilot : Relax, there is still quite a bit that has to be done before any kind of strike happens. Outside of the normal UA shenanigans, your travel should be j
49 Post contains links C680 : Don't be so sure. UA's brand has been badly tarnished post merger. A strike, or God forbid a crash, could result in a very, very long recovery - if e
50 ckfred : Here's the $64,000 question. Let's say that the mediator releases the pilots into cooling off within the next 60 days, and the two sides can't reach a
51 DashTrash : No there aren't. Scabs are not as plentiful as you think. Yes there is. He can send a group striking under provisions of the RLA back to work with an
52 RDH3E : I think he was really saying, "in another world, there are many pilot's that would theoretically perform their job for less money" not really referri
53 gigneil : Funny it's never the other groups. Just the pilots. And in this cases, just the UA pilots. Not the CO ones. But yeah it always is managements fault. R
54 ual777 : It was a vote from BOTH pilot groups, not just sUA. Pilots aren't rampers, mechanics, FAs, or CSRs. The education/qualification gap between pilots an
55 Post contains links rj777 : Without pilots, that pretty much means no planes flying. Do you think we'll see something like this: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/.../British-A
56 flyhossd : So you've forgotten other strikes, like the NW mechanic's strike, then?
57 FlyASAGuy2005 : While selectively quoting. You left out the part where I said the exact same thing you did...re read what I said.
58 B727FA : Forgive me, but what is the "3rd" contract?
59 DashTrash : Noted. My apologies.
60 C680 : The very fact that airline unions fall under the Railway Labor Act pretty much sums it up: Legislation designed for Victorian transportation applied
61 tommy767 : I for one hope they strike. The pilots need to send a signal up to upper management to show that the continued arrogance and ignorant attitude is not
62 STT757 : Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't negotiations going well with all the labor groups except the pilots?
63 crucianpilot : That's because pilot negotiations are much more intricate than other labor groups do to the rules that we work under. We are just fed up with the prog
64 RDH3E : This is such a tired line. There will never be a return to the "golden days" contracts. If there is, you'll be picking up the pieces of UAL at auctio
65 STT757 : But it isn't this a different "them" then 2002, and even a different UA?
66 congaboy : Just like the senior management team, right? Your point is okay until you see what compensation package Smisek has just apparently been granted. If y
67 26point2 : UAL, in my opinion, has long been the front runner and poster child for what a bad airline passenger experience can be like. I have avoided using UAL
68 DashTrash : We do our best to keep this type of crap out of the industry, and for good reason. Safety. If pilot pay is tied directly to airline profits there WIL
69 RDH3E : Two wrongs don't make a right. Cause taking a 90k salary instead of 100k is going to cause you to disregard the safety of hundreds of people. Sorry,
70 DashTrash : You didn't state numbers in your original post. Sorry to say that pilots are some of the cheapest bastards on the planet. Yeah. 10K would make a diff
71 HNL-Jack : Well said!
72 RDH3E : So you think a pilot would knowingly endanger his own life and the lives of up to (at UA) approximately 390 people just because he could have a *pote
73 DeltaMD90 : Yes. Accidents can occur because of the smallest things. "Oh, that's no big deal, that'll never cause an accident" (and then it does.) It's not like
74 FriendlySkies : Normally I'd agree with this, but it's published fact that the UA pilots are making noticably less than the industry standard. Whether or not you agr
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