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Hawaiian Air To Purchase Turboprops...  
User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1010 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 26177 times:

Was a bit surprised to see this buried in a fare-related press release:

In addition, the airline's parent company, Hawaiian Holdings, has signed a Letter of Intent to acquire turbo-prop aircraft with the aim of establishing a subsidiary carrier to serve routes not currently in Hawaiian's neighbor island system.

Wonder what impact this will have on Island Air.... I think Mokulele will be OK as the Caravans can definitely fly where a Dash 8/ATR/Saab can't..

More at: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hawaii...ves-neighbor-island-194100380.html


xx
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1786 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 26101 times:

Does anyone hold the naming rights to Aloha? If not, maybe they could use that as the name.

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 25889 times:

Quoting rj777 (Reply 1):
Does anyone hold the naming rights to Aloha? If not, maybe they could use that as the name.

Back in 2011, one of the former majority shareholders of Aloha bought the name and associated trademark, presumably to prevent Mesa from renaming Go! to Aloha. Perhaps they could be persuaded to sell it or license the name and trademarks.

As for what to call this subsidiary, I hope they don't take the easy way out and call it Hawaiian Express,. Hawaiian Connection or HA Express/HA Connection. Maybe name it after a Hawaiian word for something like voyage, flight, bird, or wind.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19408 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 25867 times:

They didn't say what sort of turboprops.

I'm a bit out of the loop on currently available turboprops. There is the Q400, of course. What else is on the market at this time?

I seem to recall that on some very short routes, a jet actually takes longer to make the flight than a turboprop. I wonder if HNL-OGG is one of those routes. It took us 23 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down when we did it on a 717.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6406 posts, RR: 39
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25794 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
What else is on the market at this time?

The new ATR 72-600.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemetjetCEO From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 411 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25690 times:

Im thinking of Lanai and Molokai.
I would suspect this could devastate Island Air


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3121 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25672 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
They didn't say what sort of turboprops.

I'm a bit out of the loop on currently available turboprops. There is the Q400, of course. What else is on the market at this time?

I seem to recall that on some very short routes, a jet actually takes longer to make the flight than a turboprop. I wonder if HNL-OGG is one of those routes. It took us 23 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down when we did it on a 717.

I think HA needs to have a presence on MKK & LNY at least, they have flown there several times, I personally have flown HA's SD-330's, Dash-7's, DC-9's to MKK the DC-9's seemed to take a little less time, but on such a short route the time savings was marginal at best. I'd think JHM would also be of interest again to HA. I like the Q400, I've flown those, I'm sure the ATR would be the other consideration. I also lived in Hawaii during the Mahalo days and their ATR's were a decent ride throughout the Islands, but Mahalo's F-27's were a bit run down, but still decent.

On a side note, I did notice when flying HNL-OGG on D10's, L10's that the flight seems to take longer, maybe due to the fact they taxi to the reef runway in HNL or the bird just goes slower, but my flights on this route with UA, AA & DL never were as short as an AQ 73S or HA DC9 or 717.

[Edited 2012-07-17 14:53:50]


AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25554 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 2):
Back in 2011, one of the former majority shareholders of Aloha bought the name and associated trademark, presumably to prevent Mesa from renaming Go! to Aloha. Perhaps they could be persuaded to sell it or license the name and trademarks.

Isn't it now owned by Aloha Air Cargo, which is owned by Saltchuk Resources (the same people behind Northern Air Cargo)?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):

They didn't say what sort of turboprops

I'd put my early money on the ATR-72. The stage lengths probably don't justify the extra cost of the Q400, although it can fit a few more seats.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2355 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25496 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Isn't it now owned by Aloha Air Cargo, which is owned by Saltchuk Resources (the same people behind Northern Air Cargo)?

Yucaipa Cos, Aloha's former owner, owns all of their intellectual property (logos, trademarks, etc). There is a condition imposed by the bankruptcy judge that prohibits them from selling the name to Mesa.

Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 940 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25328 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The Dash-8-400 doesn't seem like a good replacement for the B717...

User currently offlineElpinDAB From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 468 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25267 times:

Fwiw, Flight Global's article says they are looking at turboprops with 50 seats or less.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ch-new-regional-subsidiary-374464/

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
The Dash-8-400 doesn't seem like a good replacement for the B717...

The article also states that the aircraft are intended to operate smaller routes currently not served by HA for either economic or operational purposes. They could also use the aircraft to serve existing markets during off-peak times. It does not sound like these will replace the 717 in any way.

For props with 50 seats or less, maybe the ATR-42-600? Either that, or they might have to buy used.


User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2355 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25244 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 9):
The Dash-8-400 doesn't seem like a good replacement for the B717...

They are NOT replacing 717s.

Any turboprops added to the fleet will be for an "express" carrier and must have less than 69 seats and 69,000 lbs (per recent union deals). Turboprops can not fly between the 5 major airports in Hawaii (HNL, OGG, LIH, KOA & ITO). They will be restricted to serving smaller communities in Hawaii (LNY, MKK, & JHM are the obvious ones, also possible are Hana, Kamuela, & Princeville) or feeding HA's mainland airports served by 767/A330.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25215 times:

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 11):
Any turboprops added to the fleet will be for an "express" carrier and must have less than 69 seats and 69,000 lbs (per recent union deals).

In that case I think the ATR has to be considered the front runner at this point.

Unless of course Xian or Antonov have anything to say about it...  



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 523 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 25149 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
In that case I think the ATR has to be considered the front runner at this point.

Unless of course Xian or Antonov have anything to say about it...

Or new build Viking Twotters!!!  



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently onlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1258 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 25099 times:

I'll cast my lot with ATR as well on a new build. Although I personally would prefer the Q, it's too much aircraft and too expensive to operate on these short stages where its speed advantage is negated. ATR is the only game in town for the 50 seat market anyway.

User currently offlineElpinDAB From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 468 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24967 times:

Somehow I overlooked in the FlightGlobal article that it states 6 *used* turboprops with 50 seats or less. That broadens the range somewhat.

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 11):
Any turboprops added to the fleet will be for an "express" carrier and must have less than 69 seats and 69,000 lbs (per recent union deals).
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
In that case I think the ATR has to be considered the front runner at this point.

BMI, this still doesn't eliminate the Q400, which weighs under 69,000lbs and could be configured for less than 69 seats.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24835 times:

Quoting ElpinDAB (Reply 15):
BMI, this still doesn't eliminate the Q400, which weighs under 69,000lbs and could be configured for less than 69 seats.

It makes it an uphill battle, since the Q400 is expensive enough as it is.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2876 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24796 times:

Okay, we need one of the wizards on here to do their thing and slap the current HA c/s onto a Q400 and an ATR so we can see what it'll look like  

Although, I was able to find this old pic, the design has really changed though:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Zuppicich




"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5726 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24678 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
I'd put my early money on the ATR-72. The stage lengths probably don't justify the extra cost of the Q400, although it can fit a few more seats.

My thoughts exactly. But with the revelation (a few comments down) that they're looking in the 50 seat group, I have no idea what they'd pick, other than an ATR-42... unless they go.... USED. Oh boy.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Isn't it now owned by Aloha Air Cargo, which is owned by Saltchuk Resources (the same people behind Northern Air Cargo)?

Yep.

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 8):
Yucaipa Cos, Aloha's former owner, owns all of their intellectual property (logos, trademarks, etc). There is a condition imposed by the bankruptcy judge that prohibits them from selling the name to Mesa.

Nope.
Or at least, doubtful.
Aloha Air Cargo is a subsidiary of Saltchuk. The intellectual property may be owned by Aunt Meredith, but in some way shape or form, Saltchuk is operating the airline.


User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2355 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24522 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 18):
Nope.
Or at least, doubtful.
Aloha Air Cargo is a subsidiary of Saltchuk. The intellectual property may be owned by Aunt Meredith, but in some way shape or form, Saltchuk is operating the airline.

Aloha Air Cargo took AQ's FAA operating certificate, the AQ code and "Aloha" callsign but the name "Aloha Airlines" and the bird of paradise logo, red script "Aloha," and the previous logos used by Aloha (Funbird, etc) are owned by Yucaipa.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/busine...rlines_name_sold.html?id=112922419

Quote:
Aloha Airlines' name has been sold, but go! Mokulele won't be able to use it.

Los Angeles-based Yucaipa Cos., the former majority shareholder of Aloha, won federal Bankruptcy Court approval last week to buy the Aloha name and other intellectual property for $1.5 million with a stipulation that it not resell the name to Mesa Air Group, the parent of go! Mokulele.

Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently onlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 24471 times:

AA/MQ has been trying to sell off the regional feed, maybe HA would buy the OW certificate since it has an ATR training program. I'd love to see ATRs in Hawaiian colors!

Anyone have details how the subsidiary will be structured? Wholly owned I assume? Hawaiian pilots/FAs/mechanics on the mainline seniority list?

[Edited 2012-07-17 17:29:09]


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 22931 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3):
I seem to recall that on some very short routes, a jet actually takes longer to make the flight than a turboprop. I wonder if HNL-OGG is one of those routes. It took us 23 minutes from wheels-up to wheels-down when we did it on a 717

It depends on which direction they fly, what runways are in-use, etc. I just flew OGG-HNL on a HA B717 and it took about 33 minutes. We departed Maui to the north, then flew down past Molokai toward Oahu, landing at HNL to the north. I imagine the return trip was probably more like your flight,



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 563 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 22303 times:

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 11):
Any turboprops added to the fleet will be for an "express" carrier and must have less than 69 seats and 69,000 lbs (per recent union deals). Turboprops can not fly between the 5 major airports in Hawaii (HNL, OGG, LIH, KOA & ITO). They will be restricted to serving smaller communities in Hawaii (LNY, MKK, & JHM are the obvious ones, also possible are Hana, Kamuela, & Princeville) or feeding HA's mainland airports served by 767/A330.

What about a route that would cause the planes to fly direct to major airports, but skip HNL such as OGG-KOA, OGG-ITO as well as the smaller airports? Would Kauai see much of this traffic? It seems that it is far enough away from HNL that it would be cost prohibitive to fly an ATR vs a 717.


User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2355 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21397 times:

The following is based on my understanding if the recently ratified Flight Attendant contract at HA:

The feeder carrier may not operate any flights between HNL-OGG, HNL-LIH, HNL-KOA, or HNL-ITO. It could operate, for example OGG-ITO, OGG-KOA, KOA-MKK, LIH-LNY, HNL-LNY, HNL-MKK, HNL-JHM, etc.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 21336 times:

Saabs or Emb120's would be in the 30 passenger range, which would be perfect for some of those secondary markets.

25 HNL-Jack : This is a surprise, but may make sense. HA is dominant in the inter island market, but is no longer able to serve the whole market with the 717's. Thi
26 SWALUV : This brings up an interesting point. I could see this more on the east coast than on the west coast due to the limited flight out of JFK. DCA/IAD/BWI
27 greggariouspdx : Would love to see scheduled service to Waimea on the Big Island started up again. The props might make that route work.
28 HNL-Jack : Not likely in my opinion. I believe HA knows its niche and will depend on partnership feeds as it increases its outreach on the mainland, Asia and wh
29 USAirALB : I have a hard time seeing HA in any form doing feeder flights on the East Coast, primarily because they could get another airline to codeshare with at
30 HAL : Going out on a limb here, but maybe... Hawaiian Airlines? With the brand loyalty and airline identity already well established, I don't see why the a
31 koruman : Isn't this a fairly straightforward attempt to stitch up the markets to Kapalua and Princeville, both of which now have very substantial numbers of ho
32 francoflier : Unfortunately, all of those are now thoroughly flown or already parked in a desert somewhere, as much as it saddens me. But depending on the number o
33 aztrainer : I would doubt it as they are again needing the 717's in Hawai'i. Also with something like TUS, it is only 100 miles to the south of PHX and I do not
34 Post contains images SWALUV : It would be sad to see Island Air go... Could it be possible that in the long run Island Air get bought by HA? ( I know a extremely far possibility bu
35 iceberg210 : True, however in the case of the EMB120 it is still 'technically' available as it's made on the same line as the ERJ's and Legacys and can be bought
36 bwphoto : FWIW, the Aloha Air Cargo U.S. trademarks are owned of record by Aeko Kula, Inc. CORPORATION HAWAII 371 Aokea Place Honolulu HAWAII 96819
37 northstardc4m : The Q400 didn't do very well with Island Air as i recall? They sent it back after 6 months or so? I see ATRs in HA's future personally. Hawaii puts al
38 B6A322 : I'm lucky enough to be in HNL this week, and read in the star advertiser this morning (not sure of its credibility, but hey its free at the hotel) tha
39 tjwgrr : I'd bet on either the Q300 or ATR42 then.
40 T prop : ATR42-500. >>>ATR people were in HNL last week.
41 Pohakuloa : So WP will be getting ATR's, HA may be getting ATR's.... I wonder where this will leave Kapalua when the smoke clears...
42 Post contains links JetBlueGuy2006 : Saw this on Hawaiinewsnow.com http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/1...-looks-to-boost-interisland-travel Doesn't sounds like there will be many planes,
43 usxguy : On Caravans!
44 DocLightning : The really stunning part is that they still manage a (limited) beverage service. I remember being blown away by that. Most airlines wouldn't bother.
45 daviation : I am flying next week from HNL-JHM. I would have loved to remain on HA for the entire trip from JFK, but HA doesn't currently fly to JHM. So it's WP.
46 Jean Leloup : Am I the only one that has noticed that the Hawaii News Now link contradicts what has been said above? It does not say that HA will be acquiring props
47 lightsaber : Yep. High fares will attract a new entrant. I love HA, but without competition... ugh. Friends are starting to fly 'further out' as the vacation cost
48 ElpinDAB : Major blow from the article: "Hawaiian also announced it's signed a letter of intent with a confidential subsidiary carrier to fly turbo propeller pl
49 Post contains images HAL : An airplane flight is an airplane flight, no matter how short it is. That first foot off the runway takes the vast majority of the fare. I've said it
50 HAL : Yes, we have strong scope. No turboprop flying for us, code-share or in-house, will fly the routes currently flown by the 717. This is part of our co
51 B6A322 : This also contradicts what was in the Star this morning, should have summarized earlier, but: 1. As of this point, there is only an MoU for the aircr
52 RWA380 : They were a nice plane to fly Inter Island on Mahalo. I'd love to see Island Air become part of HA, the Dash 8's would be perfect for the lift HA is
53 aztrainer : That is a good question. It seems that HA has signed a agreement with WP to provide the prop service. This should allow some cost savings for both si
54 BMI727 : And the ATR has served American Eagle and Cape Air well in the Caribbean and Pacific respectively. I don't know the packing habits of Hawaiians and t
55 JoeCanuck : If they are buying used, I think the choice will come down to whatever they can get 6-10 of, for a reasonable price and in reasonable shape...and that
56 Bluewave 707 : WP has 3 Dash8-100s, 1 leased SF340B, with 3 ATR72s on order, and options for 3 more. N809WP was withdrawn a couple of months ago. Only N805WP, N806WP
57 RWA380 : I have travelled with local Hawaiian groups Inter Island before, and they check in coolers full of food, especially to places like MKK or LNY, where
58 Post contains links LAXintl : Aviation Week has a story about this now. Primary points: o LOI signed on aircraft o Small number 3-6 o Aircraft purchased not leased o Pilot contract
59 HNL-Jack : Fifty seats or less and the number of aircraft would seem to indicate they are not really going to attack WP across the board, but probably focus on
60 aztrainer : Could it be that HA is getting there feet wet and learning the nuances of turboprops? Use this as an experiment and if it happens to work will for HA
61 azjubilee : HA has operated turbo-props in the past, so this business development is hardly "getting their feet wet."
62 RWA380 : A long time ago SD-330's and Dash - 7's flew in HA colors, I liked the overwing design for good sightseeing with those beautiful Islands and Ocean as
63 aztrainer : Yes, that is true, but that was also in 2004. I was talking about "getting their feet wet" as learning the new aspects of this transportation class b
64 penguinflies : They could always go with the DHC-6-400 new for around $3.5 million vs a Q400 at $25 million. Island Air brought in the Q400 and found it was too big
65 gigneil : Yep. I hope you guys have a strong scope, you're going to want to crush your employer's ability to compete right away! Get on it, soldiers! NS
66 ha763 : The Q400 wasn't too big for the market. There was too much competition. WP got the Q400 soon after they were sold by AQ and they were going to use it
67 RWA380 : HA serves OGG-ITO/KOA, OGG-MKK is operated by WP according to their website route map, which makes sense as MKK and LNY are in Maui county, and in or
68 IMissPiedmont : The Dash 8 is a much better airplane than the 717 for the inter-island service. Flights of 500 miles or less make no sense to use a pure jet on. But
69 STT757 : Wonder if it might be Q300s?
70 HNL-Jack : Mark Dunkerly, the HA President has his commercial certificate and an excellent relationship with the pilots and for that matter, all employee groups
71 Post contains images HAL : Not too many of the management team from that era is here, but almost all the pilots the flew the Dash-7 and the mechanics that worked on them are st
72 Post contains links Canflight : i think Island Air will give them a run for their money http://www.islandairgroup.com
73 RWA380 : Which is why HA is thriving with happy employees (at least the ones I come in contact with while flying HA) and the legacies are struggling in compar
74 queb : Per Jon Ostrower last week on Twitter: BREAKING: *WSJ: Hawaii's Island Air Selects ATR Prop Aircraft For New Fleet https://twitter.com/jonostrower/sta
75 aztrainer : Thank You... With the pilots that flew them still being around, I would take it that they are very senior now and probably have transferred to the 76
76 HAL : I'm sure that the turboprops would be flown almost entirely by new-hires. One, we are only trained on one type of aircraft at a time. Going to the pr
77 fpetrutiu : I think the key for HA, more than any other carrier, is frequency not neccessarily how big it is. I presume the ATR42 will be the clear winner here.
78 flyhossd : Bravo. I wonder if "gigneil" is anxious to outsource his job.
79 milesrich : I will agree from an operational standpoint that turboprops probably make more sense on flights under 300 miles, but 500 miles, I find that difficult
80 RWA380 : I doubt the HA announcement for turboprops and Island Air's announcement ared not entirely unrelated, considering the timing of the releases, same day
81 HNLPointShoot : A Q400 with all-Y seats (like what AS/QX have) will only fit 76 seats, while HA's 717s will fit 123 in an 8F/115Y configuration. HA already flies 18
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Air NZ To Purchase 777-300ER posted Fri Aug 3 2007 05:26:05 by Ruscoe
DJ: Xiamen Air To "Defer" 787 Purchase posted Fri Aug 25 2006 08:31:21 by Leelaw
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12
Korean Air Start To Codeshare With Hawaiian Air posted Fri Mar 9 2007 04:02:24 by Jimyvr
DJ: Xiamen Air To "Defer" 787 Purchase posted Fri Aug 25 2006 08:31:21 by Leelaw
Rumor - UAL To Purchase Polar Air Cargo. posted Tue Aug 30 2005 19:26:34 by Kjet12