EBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1069 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17428 times:
It was posted on airlineroutes.net yesterday
As per 17JUL12 GDS inventory display, Lufthansa from 28OCT12 is cancelling Munich β Singapore β Jakarta service. Reservation for the 5 weekly service is closed, and there are no words whether overall service to Jakarta will be kept.
Cassi From Hungary, joined Apr 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17024 times:
There is no doubt that most of the long (12+ hours) A343/A346 routes are in trouble at the current high fuel prices and we are going to see more cuts. For some competitor airlines like EK it is a much more efficient 6 + 8 hour flight with 77W's.
smbukas From Lithuania, joined Feb 2009, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16704 times:
I think in current environment it makes much more sense just to put code on Singapore Airlines flight. Anyway, passenger experience is the same, AFAIK passengers need to leave the aircraft in SIN.
I was on FRA-BKK-KUL flight last year and it was quite bad experience. Need to leave an aircraft in BKK, 2 hours for completing boarding again and continue journey in almost empty B744. Even it could be better experience just to transfer to Thai in BKK.
I think, tag-on's make sense only if stop is other alliance partner territory.
HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4556 posts, RR: 71
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16478 times:
There is talk in Jakarta that LH will delink KUL from BKK and start a nonstop FRA KUL service, which would then be extended to CGK. LH has been suffering the effects from EK/QR/EY as well as TK in CGK and it is losing out in KUL not only to the Middle Eastern carriers, but also to KL, which goes nonstop daily into KUL and will reinforce frequencies there to 10 weekly from the winter.
The FRA SIN service will definitely not be extended into CGK, because CGK cannot handle the A388. So if KUL CGK does not happen, I fear that the only alternative is for the curtain to fall over LH in CGK.
SQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1465 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 15921 times:
There are strong rumors that are saying that BKK will lose its B744 and get an A346 instead.
Maybe there will be a FRA-KUL-CGK in the future! Who knows but currently I have the feeling nobody within LH knows what to expect for the near future.
nethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 13940 times:
Quoting iainbhx (Reply 14): Sorry to lose MUC-SIN, but the fact that it was fairly easy to upgrade C to F on it, obviously meant that the premium demand wasn't there.
Correct, and also it's super easy to get award on any classes on MUC-SIN.
Try searching from United.com award travel! There are always seats open for award tickets.
The Munich hub isn't easy to operate the long haul flights to Asia. Even MUC-HKG, NRT etc where aircraft swap to smaller ones and frequency reduced are often seen. That's one indicator LH is trying their best to adjust to the correct operations. If all the premium classes are really lucrative, I don't think they'd swap aircraft and reduce flight that often.
For sure, EK, EY, QR, TK are being main reasons for these cancellations.
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 3017 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 13365 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8): The FRA SIN service will definitely not be extended into CGK, because CGK cannot handle the A388.
What is CGK waiting for? Seems to me Indonesia is a perfect candidate for the whale jet.
What is the problem, runways and taxiways cannot handle the weight, or is it something else?Having a look at CGK on google earth, seems to me they have at least a few stands with double air bridges. Might it be that they cant accomodate Code F aircraft ?
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
WROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11518 times:
Quoting smbukas (Reply 10): LH A380 all times was about 60-70% in J and Y classes, so I think they have some issues to fill A380. Maybe they reduce overall capacity to SIN and drop of MUC will help them to fill A380 FRA-SIN.
This iseactly what hey are doing. SIN-CGK can be done on other airline even if SQ des not want to code-share with LH.
mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 7329 posts, RR: 78
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 10811 times:
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16): What is the problem, runways and taxiways cannot handle the weight, or is it something else?Having a look at CGK on google earth, seems to me they have at least a few stands with double air bridges. Might it be that they cant accomodate Code F aircraft ?
It's not the apron... Stand D11 (gate D1) can probably handle the 380... D21 (gate D2) probably aswell, but not concurrently.
On the rest of the gates at T2, don't the appearance deceive you, it is VERY tight in some spots that not even a 744 can get in (D71 is one, and then D/E/F41 and D/E/F42).
And then... the boarding gate space is a nightmare. Even an EK 773 boarding is enough to get some people quite irate!
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
SIA747Megatop From Singapore, joined Apr 2012, 388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10559 times:
Quoting mandala499 (Reply 19): the boarding gate space is a nightmare. Even an EK 773 boarding is enough to get some people quite irate!
Even boarding a fully loaded A320 leaves people standing in those gate hold rooms. It's ridiculous! If certain stands can fit the A380, they'll need to control boarding from the entrance to the gate, it's really a mess.
"I do not yet know of a man who became a leader as a result of having undergone a leadership course." - Lee Kuan Yew
SurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2977 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10209 times:
Interesting, sounds like this may simply be the end of LH's MUC-SIN route but not necessarily a LH withdrawal from CGK/Indonesia.
Quoting gardermoen (Reply 2): I hope this is not another victim of the EY/QR/EK effect.
Quoting nethkt (Reply 15): For sure, EK, EY, QR, TK are being main reasons for these cancellations.
I highly doubt TK is a major culprit here. Their CGK service also has a SIN stopover, making it equally unattractive to the LH service for connecting pax - a connection in MUC/IST, and then another hour or so on the ground at SIN. For those that live in markets with nonstop EK, EY, and/or QR service, pax can enjoy a seamless one-stop connection option through DXB/AUH/DOH, given that there is nonstop service to CGK from those hubs. Even so, I would imagine the main reason for this cancellation is SQ, which launched MUC-SIN back in 2010. I would imagine they grabbed a substantial chunk of O&D traffic between Munich and Singapore, leaving LH with much more lower-yielding connecting traffic than before.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8): There is talk in Jakarta that LH will delink KUL from BKK and start a nonstop FRA KUL service, which would then be extended to CGK. LH has been suffering the effects from EK/QR/EY as well as TK in CGK and it is losing out in KUL not only to the Middle Eastern carriers, but also to KL, which goes nonstop daily into KUL and will reinforce frequencies there to 10 weekly from the winter.
If LH is really struggling in KUL, I suspect they would be far more likely to drop service to the market rather than upgrade it to a nonstop service. I have no idea how much traffic there is between Germany and CGK, but I doubt it is enough to save a weak LH Southeast Asian route/market from the axe. If the CGK-bound pax weren't helping MUC-SIN make the cut, I daresay they wouldn't do much good for FRA-KUL either.
First the European majors retrenched from Australasia, ceding the market to Southeast Asian and Middle Eastern competitors. It seems like this is now happening with secondary Southeast Asian markets as well, particularly those like MNL, KUL, and CGK which apparently don't have the yields to support much in the way of nonstop service to Europe. The notable exception appears to be KL, which is not only maintaining service to the likes of MNL (long after all other European competitors pulled out) and apparently thriving in CGK, but also rapidly expanding service in the region with new services to secondary Chinese markets! Obviously with regard to CGK the old colonial ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia must play their part, but why are they also the only European airline able to make TPE, MNL, CTU, etc. work? Is it due to relatively low costs, a strong AMS hub that is not heavily constrained by slots/runway facilities/terminal capacity like other major European hubs, or...?
Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 16): What is CGK waiting for? Seems to me Indonesia is a perfect candidate for the whale jet.
CGK is probably waiting for an airline to firmly commit to A380 service before investing in all of the costly facilities improvements necessary to support the aircraft. We saw this happen with a number of U.S. airports, IAH and MIA spring to mind. I would imagine the only potential A380 service at CGK would be EK, and even that may be years off as the airline probably has a lot of other markets in mind for the aircraft before CGK.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4637 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 8828 times:
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 22): Obviously with regard to CGK the old colonial ties between the Netherlands and Indonesia must play their part, but why are they also the only European airline able to make TPE, MNL, CTU, etc. work?
AF/KL is not the only one making secondary Chinese destinations work (LH and AY are also in this market). However, KL has Skyteam partners GA in Indonesia, CI in Taiwan and MU/CZ in China. This will probably help KL a little bit. Moreover, KL is the only Euroepan major which can't support a dedicated flight to SIN, thus calling it successful.....
Anyway, rumours are that GA will introduce a nonstop CGK-AMS next year when their 77Ws arrive. Will be interesting if this materialises as rumours also suggest that their CGK-DXB-AMS isn't performing well.