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Qatar Airways 787 And A330 Retirement  
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19627 times:

As we know QR is due to recieve 5 Boeing 787s this year according to AAB. And it is known that the 787s will replace the A330's (I assume A332 due to them being of similar capacity).

When will the first A330 start to leave the fleet? And does anyone know how many 787s will join the fleet next year?


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19571 times:

They are not leaving the fleet and instead 20 A332s are being coverted to freighters as per the last update on the fate of the current QR A332 fleet!

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19559 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):
They are not leaving the fleet and instead 20 A332s are being coverted to freighters as per the last update on the fate of the current QR A332 fleet!

But they dont have 20 A332. They have 16 A332 and 13 A333. And the Boeing 787 obviously cannot replace the A333s since they are much smaller.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineU2380 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2010, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19559 times:

I believe I heard that the A330s would be converted to freighter aircraft? Or at least, Al Bakar made some noise about it.

Edit: behramjee beat me to it.

[Edited 2012-07-19 00:12:11]

User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19463 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 1):
They are not leaving the fleet and instead 20 A332s are being coverted to freighters as per the last update on the fate of the current QR A332 fleet!
Quoting U2380 (Reply 3):
I believe I heard that the A330s would be converted to freighter aircraft? Or at least, Al Bakar made some noise about it.

Edit: behramjee beat me to it.

But wasn't the problem that Airbus doesn't know how to build airplanes any more?  


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18964 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 4):
But wasn't the problem that Airbus doesn't know how to build airplanes any more?


It was, but they proved it on the back of a paper napkin IIRC , so it is happy days now again. 



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1817 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18619 times:

Must be the first airshow that he was quiet? I have not heard a word from him? Maybe the Qatar 787 display made him very satisfied? It was a nice display, center of attention. Maybe this is the way for A and B to please him going forward?  

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12428 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18328 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 2):
And the Boeing 787 obviously cannot replace the A333s since they are much smaller.

No doubt they will become a 789 customer at some stage in the future.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 18279 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 2):
And the Boeing 787 obviously cannot replace the A333s since they are much smaller.

No doubt they will become a 789 customer at some stage in the future.


But didn't they also order a huge stash of 350s ?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17020 times:
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Quoting sweair (Reply 6):
Must be the first airshow that he was quiet?

He did hold a press conference in front of his 787 where he was quite pleasant about the plane.



Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 8):
But didn't they also order a huge stash of 350s ?

They have all three models on order.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 7):
No doubt they will become a 789 customer at some stage in the future.

I would not be surprised to see them convert their A350-800s to the larger models and then add the 787-9 to fill the role originally planned for the A350-800.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16953 times:
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Quoting QatarA340 (Thread starter):
When will the first A330 start to leave the fleet?

A few of the 332s are reserved for Amiri flights, yes?

I really doubt they'll all be leaving.


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 16661 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 10):
A few of the 332s are reserved for Amiri flights, yes?

I really doubt they'll all be leaving.

If they need 20 A332 P2Fs they will convert some of theirs (maybe all of the airline configuration frames) and buy the remainder on the open market. They were prepared to buy a full fleet of 767 P2Fs if Airbus had not launched the A330 P2F conversion


User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 14053 times:

It surprises me that Qatar would think of removing such a large aircraft from the fleet. I say this because Qatar needs to build up its global route system to stand a chance of matching EK. Removing aircraft from the fleet surely goes against this plan?

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12242 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 6):
Must be the first airshow that he was quiet? I have not heard a word from him? Maybe the Qatar 787 display made him very satisfied? It was a nice display, center of attention. Maybe this is the way for A and B to please him going forward?

Well he was speaking a lot of the Boeings and how good they are. I guess nothing controversial this time 
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 10):
A few of the 332s are reserved for Amiri flights, yes?

I really doubt they'll all be leaving.

The Amiri flights are separate and not part of the QR planes.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 12):



It surprises me that Qatar would think of removing such a large aircraft from the fleet. I say this because Qatar needs to build up its global route system to stand a chance of matching EK. Removing aircraft from the fleet surely goes against this plan?

Yes, it needs aircraft. However, the A330s are getting older and need either a revamped J offering or else loose out to competition.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 12168 times:
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With the opening of the new-DOH airport, I would expect QR to be in expansion mode. Eventually, they will receive enough 787s and A350s to start the conversion process. But with today's cargo market yield, there is no rush.

Has there been any statement on when the A330s will start conversion? I suspect any date has been pushed back a year or two with the possible exception of a small number to 'prove the P2F process.'

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I would not be surprised to see them convert their A350-800s to the larger models and then add the 787-9 to fill the role originally planned for the A350-800.

  
I expect to see 788s, 789s, A359s and A3501-10s in QR's fleet.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
He did hold a press conference in front of his 787 where he was quite pleasant about the plane.

Al Baker?   
Where was his rant vs. the GEnX engines.  
Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 12):
Removing aircraft from the fleet surely goes against this plan?

It is best to remove aircraft before they are obsolete and just a fuel expense burden. QR has a fleet replacement strategy. It is best to keep to a young fleet and stay flexible.



Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinedanielmyatt From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11714 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
With the opening of the new-DOH airport, I would expect QR to be in expansion mode.

Word coming out of BHX in the last day or so is that they Weill start DOH-BHX with an unknown frequency, but likely once a day in the spring with 787's.
That's all I can extract from my dad back home anyway, and being 4000 miles away with only Skype as communication doesn't help.


User currently offlinemjabbasi From Pakistan, joined Nov 2007, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9502 times:

What Al-Baker actually said was 'Airbus is still learning how to make airplanes' which I find quite amusing considering that 75% of QR's fleet was Airbus i.e. AB6F/A319/320/321/332/333/346. Baker often has a habit of shooting off when the mood strikes him. He even had a go at Boeing over the initial 787 delay. It seems neither can build him his perfect plane.

User currently offlineWINGS From Portugal, joined May 2005, 2831 posts, RR: 68
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 6):
Must be the first airshow that he was quiet? I have not heard a word from him? Maybe the Qatar 787 display made him very satisfied? It was a nice display, center of attention. Maybe this is the way for A and B to please him going forward?

Al Bakar did not miss the oportunity at the Farnborough Air Show. Below is a link to the press conference he made in front of the shiny 787.

http://www.airutopia.com/news_channel_detail.php?id=99

Regards,

Wings



Aviation Is A Passion.
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 639 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I would not be surprised to see them convert their A350-800s to the larger models and then add the 787-9 to fill the role originally planned for the A350-800.


I expect to see 788s, 789s, A359s and A3501-10s in QR's fleet.

There may be a few non-stops from DOH that would benefit from the additional range of the A358 over the B789. As I understand it the first A358s will not be built until the first weight-saving block change to the A359, so the real additional range is a bit speculative until then.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6381 times:
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Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 18):
There may be a few non-stops from DOH that would benefit from the additional range of the A358 over the B789.

I would think the 777-200LRs would handle those missions as they're young and they can carry more than the A350-800R.


User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1817 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

The thing is: QR will add more destinations in the UK, so they need more planes. I do not think they will start replacing any A330s until 2014 at least.


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

The CASM difference between the 789 and 358 should not be that much different on ULH flying, my calculations show them consuming about the same fuel per seat and mile flown on max distance legs (about 0.0430 kg/nm and m2 cabin space). That is with nominal figures and there are persistent rumors about the 358s overweight but we are 4 years from EIS and it will be at about LN 50 of the program which should compare well to LN 100 where the 789 cuts in (given the added 380 and 787 experience), so I think it should be as weight mature as the 789 at EIS. The 358 also flies one hour longer then the 789. At shorter legs the 358 extra OEW of 5t will show up however.

The negative of the 358 is it's revenue earning side vs the 789 as it's cabin is 2.9 m shorter and it carries as whopping 8 LD3s less. It's positive, which might be very important for QR, is it's hot and hight performance (big wing and 359 engines), this is the 789 weak area, those 74klbf engines are almost at the max stretch and the V2 speed is very high at some 185 kts vs 358s 160kts.

I would say the 358 niche is HOT, HIGH and FAR (A can easily increase this FAR, they have 11t left to the frames structural and engine limit of 268t, they might just do another HGW variant should the market want it), the 789 is the more economical choice for normal conditions.



Non French in France
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5526 times:
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While DOH is hot, it is not high (11m AMSL) and it's runway is very long. Tire/wheel speed could become an issue, but perhaps not.

And both GE and Rolls are working on more powerful engines for the 787-9, so that should help improve the 787-9's takeoff performance in such situations, and GE could also offer a "thrust bump" on the GEnx like they do on the GE90 for hot airports.

[Edited 2012-07-22 18:23:52]

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 22):
And both GE and Rolls are working on more powerful engines for the 787-9, so that should help improve the 787-9's takeoff performance in such situations, and GE could also offer a "thrust bump" on the GEnx like they do on the GE90 for hot airports.

If I put in the most powerful variant projected today at 78klbf (for the 787-10 but it will of course also be available for the 789) I get 170kts which is kind of OK but not stellar. It then depends on the hot rating of such an engine, something we don't know. The problem is the wingspan, at 251t the 789 could do with a little more span as induced drag is 80% of the problem with start performance (or really the margins you have to have to be able to handle that an engine drops out).

[Edited 2012-07-22 23:08:40]


Non French in France
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