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SkyWest Pushes Back On Delta Regarding 50 Seat RJs  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21408 times:

Interesting.

Basically they say a deal is a deal, and we intend to operate all the contracted 50-seaters until 2020.

Could be a wrench in Delta's plans, or atleast might require a costlier offer to get Skywest to agree to something.


Quote:
SkyWest Concerned About 50-Seater Fleet Under Delta’s New Feeder Plan

Delta Air Lines ’ plan to encourage its regional airline partners to end their 50-seat regional jet flying before feeder contracts expire could run into resistance at SkyWest , the largest regional operator in the U.S.

Delta plans to offer its regional airline partners contracts for new or additional 76-seat flying as an incentive to break current capacity supply agreements and reduce 50-seat regional jet operations.

SkyWest CFO Michael Kraupp, however, tells Aviation Week that such an offer would not be acceptable unless an alternative is provided for the 50-seat jets. "We have no interest in parking aircraft,” Kraupp says. “I don’t think you can make enough on dual-class aircraft coming in to justify the costs in parking the aircraft.”

SkyWest subsidiaries SkyWest Airlines and ExpressJet operate about 150, 50-seat aircraft , for Delta, under 15-year contracts that Kraupp says do not expire until 2020. Kraupp is emphatic that Delta does not have any rights in the current contract to tell SkyWest to cease the 50-seater operations before the agreements expire.

Full story (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/Publications/aviationdaily.aspx

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From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
125 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1526 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21298 times:

My money says both sides have a plan on what to do with the other. My money also says DAL's lawyers can beat up Skywest's lawyers. They already got Ornstien's,

User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21142 times:

They might also want to consider they want any new Delta contracts after 2020.

User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 21092 times:

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 1):
My money says both sides have a plan on what to do with the other. My money also says DAL's lawyers can beat up Skywest's lawyers. They already got Ornstien's,

DL's beef with Mesa was completely different than this, and no doubt helped by Mesa's poor financial performance (and eventual bankruptcy filing). The two really aren't comparable.

That said i am sure OO and DL will work something out where both parties are happy.


User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20899 times:

Mesa's operational performance with Freedom was directly related to crappy scheduling by DELTA. I worked for YV planning when we launched the JFK flying - before that, we were a darling DCI carrier.

But a 3:40PM JFK-PVD departure blocked at 41 minutes won't cut it, especially since that plane was still on the ground @ JFK in queue at 4:15PM on a regular basis.

Delta refused to budge on a lot of the times.

Our MCO & CVG numbers were the best in the DCI system *east* of the Mississippi. It wasn't until planes started touching ATL and JFK that things went to hell... coincidence?



xx
User currently onlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1657 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20859 times:

Quoting usxguy (Reply 4):
Mesa's operational performance with Freedom was directly related to crappy scheduling by DELTA. I worked for YV planning when we launched the JFK flying - before that, we were a darling DCI carrier.

But a 3:40PM JFK-PVD departure blocked at 41 minutes won't cut it, especially since that plane was still on the ground @ JFK in queue at 4:15PM on a regular basis.

Delta refused to budge on a lot of the times.

Our MCO & CVG numbers were the best in the DCI system *east* of the Mississippi. It wasn't until planes started touching ATL and JFK that things went to hell... coincidence?

Whoever did your contract negotiations was clearly sub-standard. Not having any recourse in scheduling is a MAJOR failure.


User currently offlineusxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1013 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20846 times:

Oh we did... but they also pushed back. The first file you get is what DL wants, you send back edits, then it comes back to you, etc etc. Sometimes you get what you want, and sometimes you get f'd. Only 100% pro-rate flying does the operating carrier have total say in the schedule.

With any major, there are so many hands in the pot with scheduling that its not an easy or fun task. We may shoot back to DL that the PVD flt departing at 3:40PM needs to arrive at 5:00PM, then return PVD @ 5:25PM, arr JFK 6:25PM may not bode well with DL (ops, marketing, etc) if they wanted it to be 3:40PM / 4:22PM // 4:50P / 5:35PM -- as you can see, our #s are off by 1 hour, which means they can't fly another flight.

It also didn't help that the YV Dash 8s acquired for JFK weren't quite.... good. Some birds were fine, but there was 1 plane that I believe we had to spend over $1 million on.. the YV mechanics even found the wires to the FDR/CVR had been frayed.



xx
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20794 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 2):
They might also want to consider they want any new Delta contracts after 2020.

True, I doubt if they'd like to lose ANY of the DL flying, particularly at SLC. Mr. Kraupp needs to know what the term compromise, is, or find another way for the 50 seaters to be economical. After all it IS Skywest and ExpressJet that is flying them......they should know how to make it pay. I would think he would compromise rather than lose the 70/76 seat flying, too.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20663 times:

In my experience, OO doesn't randomly do something without having a plan or long term goal in mind. I suspect there is more to this than SkyWest management simply being stubborn. With the Comair shutdown rumor, and 9E bankruptcy issues, I can't help but think there is more to all of this.


On the OO/YV note, OO has half a billion in the bank, finding lawyers that could spar with DL's legal team wouldn't be too far fetched for them. OO also provides more lift for Delta than YV did (IIRC), and is especially prominent out west. It seems that it would be in the best interest for each carrier to find a medium that works for both here.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20569 times:

2020 is just around the corner and Skywest + ASA depend on Delta. If Skywest wants to play hardball...so can Delta. In the end Delta will win.

The questions are...can Skywest survive without Delta? Can Delta survive without Skywest?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20570 times:

I think Skywest better realize this........50 seat flying is on the way out.......the coming 717s show that .......the pax want them gone, DL wants them gone, DL's pilots want them gone and I doubt if DL is going to reverse course, now. The most OO can hope for is some sort of compromise. Digging in your heels, as Kraupp has done is not the way to do it.

[Edited 2012-07-19 11:39:24]

[Edited 2012-07-19 11:40:10]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25137 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20510 times:

I think the point here is Delta has a commitment that it simply cant walk away from.

Somehow it must make an offer rich enough for SkyWest to agree to a modification.

Look it this way, you own a company that makes widgets. You have a 15-year agreement worth $x Billion with a customer, who now walks in and says they essentially want to shalve that agreement.
So not only would your revenues drop, you are still left with an oversize your factory, equipment, staff and overhead.


To me the burden is on Delta, to come up with something sweet enough to compensate SkyWest with. Otherwise they are still bound to the terms of that contract that runs till 2020.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20479 times:

OO is acting in bad faith, and if this continues, OO should prepare to get sued by Delta.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20445 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
the pax want them gone
Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
DL's pilots want them gone

Neither of which have much say in the matter. As long as 50 seat jets are more profitable than 76+ seaters, they will stay. As it is, they are not, which is the ONLY reason why DL wants them gone.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I think the point here is Delta has a commitment that it simply cant walk away from.

They absolutely can. I know the JO haters like to say it was all his fault, but Delta really screwed Mesa over, and their lawyers are far better than some low-bid outfit.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20446 times:

I figured this was going to happen. The big thing happening here is now the 50 seat lift is limited by the new Delta CBA. The 50 seat jets have to come from somewhere. Right now you have Comair, Pinnacle, Expressjet, Skywest and Chautauqua providing 50 seat lift for Delta. Chautuaqua I believe would be more than happy to park the few 50 seaters they have for Delta. Comair seems likely to be out of business in the near future. Even so, the lift that they provide is not enough to shrink the 50 seat fleet down. On paper, it would appear that the easiest place to pull the lift from would be Pinnacle, since they are bankrupt. However, Delta owns most of the planes that PInnacle flies, and with the bankruptcy, would be likely to get more favorable flying terms due to labor costs being reduced. This combines to put pressure on SkyWest since they own both Expressjet and SkyWest. Where the bind comes in is the contracts are good until 2020, but Delta cannot honor those contracts without honoring the recently ratified ALPA contract at the same time. For this reason...I believe that lawyers from everybody will get involved. But at the same time, I can't help but remember what happened to Air Wisconsin 7 years ago. They had just recently signed a deal with UA of a similar length of time which was 70 CRJ's and 18 146's, and then all of a sudden UA found a way to pull the plug on the whole deal, and left Air Wisconsin hung out to dry. While I don't think this will happen with SkyWest since Delta is not in bankruptcy the way UA was...you can be sure that DL has lawyers looking at every angle of their contract with SkyWest carefully, and there will be pressure on SkyWest in the future. I don't think it will be total gloom and doom for SkyWest, but they are not in a good position at the moment.

One thing Delta could do with SkyWest is move another carrier into SLC and move much of the SkyWest flying into NYC and DTW. This obviously would not be a good thing for SkyWest at all, but it would give Delta a bit of leverage over SkyWest since they control most of the schedules.

Keep an eye on the UA negotiations as well. UA has basically the same regionals providing lift for them as Delta (Save for Pinnacle), and depending on what their pilots get in negotiations with UA, it could put pressure on regionals operating for them as well.

Also the AA bankruptcy is key, because if there is scope relief involved, it could give airlines another place to put airplanes that would otherwise sit in the desert.


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20365 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):

How? By asking Delta to uphold the contractually agreed upon terms? Believe it or not mainline partners can't just do as they please.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2754 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20346 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I think the point here is Delta has a commitment that it simply cant walk away from.

Somehow it must make an offer rich enough for SkyWest to agree to a modification.

This. SkyWest has an issue with simply exchanging 50 seaters for 70 seaters because they own many of their 50 seaters. That's a huge expense to park those aircraft and go through the process of bringing new aircraft to the fleet. If Delta wants to shrink their 50 seat fleet, they either park aircraft that they own or hold the lease on, or they make a deal that works for SkyWest.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):

OO is acting in bad faith, and if this continues, OO should prepare to get sued by Delta.

How is honoring a contract acting in bad faith?



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20342 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):

Neither of which have much say in the matter. As long as 50 seat jets are more profitable than 76+ seaters, they will stay. As it is, they are not, which is the ONLY reason why DL wants them gone.

Doesn't make any difference WHY DL wants them gone.....they just do. Can you see ANY scenario where the 50 seaters would suddenly become profitable? NO? I can't either. BTW, the pilots have enough say in the matter to make it part of the latest contract.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13008 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20319 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I think the point here is Delta has a commitment that it simply cant walk away from.

Somehow it must make an offer rich enough for SkyWest to agree to a modification.

  

Quoting OOer (Reply 9):
2020 is just around the corner and Skywest + ASA depend on Delta. If Skywest wants to play hardball...so can Delta. In the end Delta will win.

Could DL walk away from SkyWest? After 2020, sure. But DL also *needs* 76 seat RJ partners. Guess what, there is little chance the other RJ providers could afford to buy the required aircraft in time.

I suspect OO wants to negotiate a transition based on MRJ deliveries and CRJ maintenance or lease expiration (do they own or lease their aircraft). No one holds any illusions as to the life left in CRJs. But DL should hold no illusions on the financial health of OO's competition to finance a large purchase.

OO has also committed to a next generation of aircraft. Who would want to buy the previous generation with the inherent resale risk?

There will be a compromise. This large of a negotiation is a dance. What is in question is the number of DL 76 seaters in the next contract.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20268 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 12):
OO is acting in bad faith, and if this continues, OO should prepare to get sued by Delta.

I would venture to say that it is Delta acting in bad faith. Just because they are the mainline carrier doesn't mean they can just cancel contracts at will.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20249 times:

One question I have is how much longer with what is going on is SkyWest going to be able to keep the Skywest side union free? Talking to pilots at SkyWest...the work has been brutal as of late, and with potential Shrinkage, wouldn't they want protection for furloughs, since as a non union carrier, could OO just lay people off? I don't know the ramifications of being non union, so someone needs to clear this up.

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6486 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20218 times:

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 19):
I would venture to say that it is Delta acting in bad faith. Just because they are the mainline carrier doesn't mean they can just cancel contracts at will.

And how is trying to improve efficiency acting in bad faith? Delta has perfectly valid reasons to increase 76-seat flying, while OO has NO valid reason to continue to fly 50-seaters.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20172 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 20):

Being non-union has nothing to do with contracts between SkyWest and their mainline partners. Otherwise I agree. A union is a good idea.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20106 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):
Delta has perfectly valid reasons to increase 76-seat flying, while OO has NO valid reason to continue to fly 50-seaters.

OO is contracted to fly 50 seaters until 2020. Seems like a valid reason to me to fly them.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20099 times:

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 22):
Being non-union has nothing to do with contracts between SkyWest and their mainline partners. Otherwise I agree. A union is a good idea.

Agreed, but if Delta starts doing things with SkyWest that starts to affect the crews QOL, then it does become an issue and without Union protections in place, who knows what can happen. SkyWest has worked very hard to stay non union, but I am not sure how much longer crews will hold out at this rate.


25 Goldenshield : A union is there to protect you from management, not personnel quotas.
26 bobloblaw : Deltas really has no standing to sue Skywest. On what grounds? Delta is the one who wants to change the contract midterm. The problem comes down to a
27 Flaps : OO has every reason to continue to fly 50 seaters, namely a contract to do so for another 7+ years. Their planning and investments are based on that
28 mcdu : If Skywest wants to control their own destiny they need to start an airline and not a services company. DL will win in the end. It may involve courts
29 mayor : Surely it's been obvious to OO, as it has been to everyone else for quite awhile, that the 50 seaters are inefficient. Could they not see the handwri
30 PlanesNTrains : This is a scary mindset. Delta contracted with SkyWest for flying but it's fine if they just blow off SkyWest because they changed their mind? I hope
31 Post contains images ORDBOSEWR : I do not think this is about faith (good or bad). It is about the fact that Skywest wants to protest the interests it has. (employees, shareholders,
32 Post contains images mayor : In all of this do you not think that DL took this contract into account when they came up with these plans? Did they, maybe, find a loophole in the co
33 ridgid727 : And as contracts expire, will DL consider further work for OO. Probably not..
34 mayor : Exactly. Does OO think there's enough work out there to replace the DL flying?
35 Flaps : Agreed. I never said or implied that OO shouldn't compromise. It's in both parties interest to do so. You cannot however just make a business practic
36 jetlanta : This is so much to do about nothing. OO is just positioning itself before what will be very difficult negotiations. These two carriers will eventually
37 DeltaMD90 : Some of you guys are jumping to crazy conclusions. DL said something. OO responded. That doesn't mean the 2 are gonna battle in court, OO is going to
38 PlanesNTrains : I think this is likely exactly what's going on. What's unfortunate is how quickly some here just jumped on the "Screw SkyWest" bandwagon. I mean, Sky
39 yyz717 : Both good points. The over-riding issue is that the CRJ is notoriously inefficient and ill-suited as a long term (ie. to 2020) mainline feeder, barri
40 RDH3E : If they are going to pay out OO for the incremental lost dollars, they don't need to go to court. That is probably what will happen. OO gets reimburs
41 iowaman : If it came down to it and OO had to "park" the 50 seaters, is it possible they could at least put a fraction of the fleet to service on at-risk routes
42 RDH3E : That is just too big a fleet. They could probably move 15 or 20, but what good is that really out of 150? The combined SKYW has 488 RJ50's is active
43 peanuts : Lots of rubbernecking going on. Please move along... OO is not suicidal. This is just an exersise in building leverage for negotiations. DL knows it h
44 Post contains links BNAtraveler : Interesting related news story: http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...int-refurbish-jets-for-delta.html/ - Southwest is PAYING $100MM in costs to rep
45 FL787 : I'm sure OO would love to take CR7s/CR9s on a 1:1 basis but the problem is DL probably wants OO to dump 2 or 3 CR2s for every larger RJ. Assuming DL
46 toltommy : If Skywest pilots decide to bring a union on the property, there will be nothing to stop corporate from merging the Skywest and Expressjet certificat
47 ridgid727 : Kinda like what Expressjet worked out with CO a few years back?
48 gigneil : What good would a union do? You either have the business or you don't. If you don't have the business, you can't pay people. The only thing a union wo
49 OA412 : Please stop because you really don't know what you're talking about. Parties that are signatories to an agreement are contractually obligated to abid
50 par13del : I thought DL was trying to cancel a contract with a third party, that's in bad faith, can you have good intentions when doing something bad? Yes, may
51 mayor : Has ANYONE on this thread mentioned anything about DL wanting to "cancel" a contract? I don't think so........all we've seen so far as what OO has st
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : Not surprised. There are contacts with each of the DCI carriers with varying terms & conditions and amendable dates. DL will have to work with the
53 Post contains links and images lightsaber : Exactly. If DL wants efficiency, write a check to OO. I'm certain the contract has an exit clause. Exactly. Not too exciting. DL signed a contract to
54 DashTrash : I'm absolutely aware of the dispute that ended Mesa's DAL flying. I'm also quite sure that DAL will get what it wants out of Skywest.
55 Post contains images Mir : What, wanting to stick with a contract that's been signed is bad faith? Except for a contract with DL to fly them, of course. Not specifically, but i
56 SmittyOne : I think you should leave 'business' to people who understand it. If Delta didn't want 15 years' worth of 50-seat jet flying then they shouldn't have
57 mcdu : Skywest may meet the minimum definition of an air carrier but it is not a an airline in most respects. I can not go to skywest.com and book seats. I
58 RDH3E : Do tell. Who? According to this presentation by the RAA there were a total of 343,565 domestic regional departures in April 2010. I looked up the DOT
59 mcg : Huh? DL simply wants to end a binding contract, isn't that the definition of bad faith?
60 par13del : This part is true, but then how does it jive with your other quote below? So is DL really on the diversifictaion bandwagon or simply trying to re-shu
61 SmittyOne : Which is all basically irrelevant. The function of their business model is to provide lift to other airlines that need it, not create their own brand
62 Post contains images mayor : The regional contracts were around before Delta Express OR Song. Please quote me a source where it says this, other than by someone on this thread wh
63 mcg : I couldn't agree more. I've had many flights on SkyWest over the last 15 or so years and have found them to be excellent in all respects. They do an
64 mcdu : You could re-word that to "they wouldn't have hired _______" DL didn't pick SKYW because SKYW is some sort or super company. SKYW won a low bidder aw
65 mayor : Interesting view of the airline scene from that upholstered telephone booth you guys call the flight deck. Are you for real? You would want to see al
66 Caspian27 : A parasite is generally an unwanted intruder. In this case DL WANTED feed from OO, so I think it's a poor analogy. But mainline guys always think of
67 Post contains images mayor : It's amazing how poorly my son-in-law was treated by DL and UA mainline crews when he jumpseated on them when he was flying for OO and I never unders
68 Post contains links and images lightsaber : Agreed, but possible. The unions (not just the pilots, but they are one obstacle) refuse to set up 'entry rules' that would allow small jet flying to
69 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Thank you for that! I can now enjoy the rest of my day. -Dave
70 Post contains images Mir : So you want to see people lose their jobs. Brilliant. Great way to build solidarity in the pilot ranks. First, I have to say that the attitude you're
71 SmittyOne : Hoping not to go too far off topic, but this is one thing that baffles me about the airline business. Why on earth do pilots of different aircraft ty
72 apodino : Air Wisconsin management made an interesting comment in an internal memo a couple of weeks ago. They claim there will still be a big demand for 50 sea
73 Caspian27 : We are not a sub-species of pilot mcdu. And calling us all 500 hour wonders is pretty demeaning considering the amount of time most of us have been st
74 Goldenshield : McDu: Okay, we've long known that you absolutely hate regionals, and for some reason, SkyWest in particular. Anyone who's been here for some time can
75 T5towbar : I'm just curious..... I know that OO has a lot of CR1 &2's (and with XE a lot of 145's), but how many large RJ's does OO operate? And how many ar
76 Post contains links lightsaber : That goes to Maxist theory of the value of labor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value There is a point. There is no way to have a CR2
77 par13del : It's amazing that you have folks with a trade - pilots - who go through the same training to get their wings - employed by different companies to repr
78 SmittyOne : Marx isn't quite where I was going with it...I was thinking more of a military-style pay system and pooling the CRJs together with the Narrow Bodies.
79 T5towbar : In theory, that would make sense, but all of the other ancillary costs would increase with an all mainline operation. You'd have to pay FA's and MX m
80 SmittyOne : Sure, I understand that. But in my twisted view of the world, my ass is just as valuable sitting on a CRJ7 as it is in a 757. So I'd be OK with highe
81 mayor : Why not bring the regional operation, in house, WITH a scale.?The regional could be like an entry level position, depending on type of a/c........all
82 DeltaMD90 : I think it's because the legacies are able to basically abuse the regionals and bringing them in would just shoot costs up. I'd like to see it done i
83 Post contains links LAXintl : Sounds like they reached a bit of a deal. Skywest will allow early termination of 66 CRJ200 aircraft with Delta, in return for a 10-year deal to fly 5
84 seabosdca : There was never any doubt. Each side is too important to the other. And this deal makes sense. DL gets to reduce its long-term obligation to OO in a
85 par13del : Is it really a regional or just technically another airline within an airline? If the mainline company purchases all the a/c then puts the flying of
86 penguinflies : I wonder where these planes are coming from? Comair still has 28 -700/900s right? Where else are there Delta-owned jets to redeploy that are up for re
87 Post contains links cokepopper : Maybe to skywest? http://www.marketwatch.com/story/sky...ass-aircraft-from-delta-2012-08-02 ST. GEORGE, Utah, Aug. 2, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
88 AV8AJET : 3 (700's) from Comair will go to EV 16 (900's) from 9E will be between EV & OO 15 (900's) from Comair between EV & OO = 34 planes (dual class
89 primetimeDC9 : This is good news for Skywest as they still are a preferred carrier for Delta, as they should be. The economies of scale from the combined Skywest/Exp
90 LAXintl : Sounds like the stock market is not too happy about the agreement. Down about 4% as of 130pm eastern. Analyst have downgraded the stock to a "sell" wi
91 boslax : Well maybe not all good news for SkyWest. As the press relaease states, SkyWest still needs to find homes for 25 of the 66 CRJ's. Maybee Mitsubishi wi
92 seabosdca : I think if investors were expecting a better outcome for OO they were delusional. That 50-seat capacity wasn't going to keep operating indefinitely.
93 par13del : Can SkyWest fly those a/c on non-DL routes is they are allowed such routes?
94 fjnovak1 : Any chance we see them do what they have with UA mostly and fly these 25 CRJ's at-risk under the DL* code?
95 LAXintl : True, not forever, but people were under the assumption they would atleast run their full contracted terms. Lots of people from private investors, in
96 seabosdca : That assumption should have gone out the window the day the DL pilots approved the new contract. I'm not disagreeing with you; I'm just saying the in
97 Post contains images par13del : Makes you wonder if these are the same investors who bought up DL stock when the last contract was signed, hope they are not "institutional investors
98 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : So looks like an agreement has been made... no DL bully, no epic court battle, the sky is not falling... Looks like this deal with OO was directly rel
99 LAXintl : If this deal is a sign of future agreements that Delta is crafting, they are setting themselves up for one BIG loss charge on the value of the CRJ air
100 lightsaber : Not great, but also not back for SkyWest. That will be a draw down in their pilot pool. The DL owned CR2s were always going to go this way, I wonder
101 DeltaMD90 : Short term I see a loss, however, I think DL was smart for setting themselves up with much less 50 seaters. The new contract with the pilots, the 717
102 PSU.DTW.SCE : Its down 66 up 41 over a period of 3 years. Attrition will handle some of this. Plus, can't have it both ways, mainline wanted more flying at DL, its
103 Post contains links and images lightsaber : I'm trying to get my mind around how fast DL will cut 50-seat RJ flying. I wonder if there is any chance of seeing the MRJ flying for DL, or if the co
104 seabosdca : Why not? I'd imagine a 76-seat MRJ90 configuration might be a nice trump card when bidding for the new DL work.
105 doug_Or : Over this time period attrition will more than cover the draw down. Mainline pilots will start hitting age 65 this December which will greatly increa
106 Post contains images lightsaber : Ditto, but that is a function of how fast DL converts over. I do not have a feel for how rapid DL is allowed to transition. I'm taking a wait and see
107 Mir : I don't there was any way Comair wasn't getting shut down. They might have lasted a bit longer, but the writing was on the wall. They were a senior p
108 PSU.DTW.SCE : The draw-down from 300+ 50 seat RJs to 125 is about a 5 year transition. It really depends how soon DL wants to get the additional 76 seaters that th
109 crj200faguy : Is this all the larger CRJ flying Skywest is going to get? Doesn't Delta still have to park 130+ 50 seaters. It makes you wonder where the rest are co
110 FlyASAGuy2005 : As a couple people have already stated and it's pretty clear; this is just a shuffle of a/c ALREADY on property. This has nothing to do with the extr
111 FL787 : The draw-down is supposed to be complete by the time the pilots contract is amendable again and all the 717s have been delivered. So it's really a 3
112 FlyASAGuy2005 : Not quite and I think this is what people are confusing. The 50 seater draw-down is dependent on the additional 70-76 seat lift (sort of), not the 71
113 FL787 : The 50 seaters are dependent upon the 76 seaters which are dependent on the 717. The agreement for 717s and new DCI caps are intertwined, so no the 7
114 FlyASAGuy2005 : In principle yes but materially, no. This is what Delta wants but there's nothing anywhere that says they MUST draw down the 50 seat flying to 125 to
115 PSU.DTW.SCE : This round of "musical chairs" was relatively easy. Each round is going to get progressively harder to cut back on the CRJs. I realistically think it
116 FL787 : Ok that's fair but unless DL wants to increase capacity, the 717s will arrive as the CR2s depart. I disagree, I think things will go pretty smoothly
117 mayor : Well, Anderson did say it was capacity "neutral".
118 crj200faguy : The rest as in the 70 seaters Delta can add.
119 FlyASAGuy2005 : Gotcha. Well that hasn't been decided yet its anybody's ballgame. It can go several ways. Either DL will place the order and hand them out or the ope
120 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : whoa. It can't be any better of a view than from a cargo warehouse or a bag bin. Lets all place nice kids. No need for the I'm smarter than you becau
121 FlyASAGuy2005 : You mean the A-Tech Center? The "City Hanger" as it was called, sat empty for years prior to EV taking on the lease. Neither DL nor FL for that matte
122 Post contains images mayor : That's my point. Did you even read what he was saying?[Edited 2012-08-04 07:37:12]
123 Post contains images lightsaber : Agreed. But I believe there was an acceleration. I'd like to see a link on the age distribution. For some pilots just couldn't make it to 65 (not pas
124 DeltaL1011man : No. could careless. Er...DeltaNorth. It sat empty for a while after EA went then Delta took it in....98? or so and then dumped it during Tony's cut t
125 mayor : Then, if you don't know WHAT I was replying to, please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't say.
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