wrldtvlr From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 24 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6546 times:
Quote: "We are reevaluating our route network to make sure that it is the best plan for us," said Christine DeZarn, vice president and chief marketing officer.
"Although we had envisioned an earlier startup, the process is taking longer than we anticipated and we are not ready at this time to talk about specific plans or dates, but we are moving forward," DeZarn said.
Hmm. Perhaps basing a carrier out of PHF may not be the best idea.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6446 times:
They probably didn't help their case by getting into trouble with the DOT while in the process of getting certified. It also sounds like they're having issues getting enough financing in place to satisfy the DOT and I guess that's one of the things holding them up in getting their operating certificate. The longer they delay the starting of operations, the longer the odds of them starting up service at all.
PHF does have potential even with FL leaving and ORF being the major airport for the region. Allegiant could potentially add service to their other Florida destinations and maybe even MYR. What about Spirit as a possible new airline at PHF? I know they've been focused on building up their DFW and LAS operations, but they have a/c with the legs that G4's MD-80 family a/c lack from PHF.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4936 posts, RR: 15 Reply 3, posted (10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6383 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 2): They probably didn't help their case by getting into trouble with the DOT while in the process of getting certified. It also sounds like they're having issues getting enough financing in place to satisfy the DOT and I guess that's one of the things holding them up in getting their operating certificate. The longer they delay the starting of operations, the longer the odds of them starting up service at all.
That's what I was thinking. PHF + delays with the DOT and other assorted junk = maybe this won't happen.
I hope it happens though, but maybe this airline needs to reconsider where they operate from.
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2274 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6308 times:
I do wonder how they're going to be able to make a go of it. VX is well capitalized at a major city with brand new aircraft and a unique onboard product and they're hemorrhaging. B6 was also well capitalized with brand new aircraft and a revolutionary onboard product at the time in what is probably one of the most desirable markets to be in. People wants to start up with old 737's at a secondary market. Maybe they can fill a niche, and I sure hope they do well because I think it is healthy for the industry, but I kind of wonder...
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 948 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5922 times:
This is the most realistic thing I have heard from this group since PE 2.0's inception.
Quoting catiii (Reply 5): Maybe they can fill a niche, and I sure hope they do well because I think it is healthy for the industry, but I kind of wonder...
I hope some of the brain children behind this venture are studying the late Eastwind Airlines....TTN....what they did right and where they went wrong.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22021 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5381 times:
Is anyone surprised ?
Even 2013 might not be doable.
Getting certified these days is a multi-year process (go ask California Pacific).
As far as specifics, the airline and DOT have been going back and forth clarifying basic information supplementing the initial March application. Most recently in June DOT received additional financial forecast, and shareholder information.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
N62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3666 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5328 times:
From the article:
PeoplExpress did run afoul of the Tranportation Department's enforcement office in May when DOT claimed the carrier violated a ban on premature advertising by soliciting memberships for its travel club before it had received a certificate to fly.
This is absolutely nuts - the DOT is now deciding when soliciting memberships for a travel club is "premature" or not????
P.S. In perfect duplication and waste mode, I'm sure the FTC does exactly the same thing.
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8802 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5302 times:
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 4): My guess is they like what they see in PIT that even thouh they might be based at PHF, the focus may quickly turn to PIT.
PIT, to me, does seem to have a larger catchment area around it as opposed to PHF.
If you ask me, tho, I wish they'd stick with their model that included a business class. I know they're doing primarily point-to-point flying, or they plan on it, but wouldn't they benefit by banking at least some of those p2p flights for possible connections? Not everyone is going to be PIT or PHF-bound. PIT does have higher O&D than it had when it was a mega hub for US (not sure about O&D numbers for PHF tho), but I'd be willing to bet that they could serve even more pax if they could bank some flights instead of having just a slew of p2p flights running at random.
For the record, I'm not suggesting they have full-fledged hubs; I know banking all of your flights does have its logistical costs and what not that would seem unfeasible to any start-up. Suppose they could time a handful of their arrivals/departures that could provide some connection possibilities. Doesn't WN do that? I know they pretty much have 150 to 200 p2p flights out of their largest bases...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
poLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1482 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (10 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5267 times:
Quoting N62NA (Reply 8): This is absolutely nuts - the DOT is now deciding when soliciting memberships for a travel club is "premature" or not????
You had to pay to be a member of its travel club. So PE was basically duping money out of idiots when they technically have no clue if (or when) they will ever get certified to fly.
N62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3666 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (10 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5042 times:
Quoting poLOT (Reply 10): You had to pay to be a member of its travel club. So PE was basically duping money out of idiots when they technically have no clue if (or when) they will ever get certified to fly.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Simply put, People Express holds no economic authority, and as such may not engage in advertising or make promises regarding any future travel.
Thanks, I missed that. But the DOT???? Then what is the FTC there for???
KDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (10 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4435 times:
To me this sounds like another Skybus: Lousy catchment area, lack of connecting flight options, poorly financed, "underserved destinations", etc. I don't think it is ever going to see the light of day.
To me this sounds like another Skybus: Lousy catchment area, lack of connecting flight options, poorly financed, "underserved destinations", etc. I don't think it is ever going to see the light of day.
or Hooters Air
My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4936 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3849 times:
Quoting September11 (Reply 16): My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.
Sounds like my idea-
LAX-CVG-NYC on a couple of 767s.
poLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1482 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3839 times:
Quoting September11 (Reply 16): My idea for PeoplExpress: start w/ one aircraft and 2 cities (preferably 2 major airports) - one daily round trip flight. Stick with it (no growth) for at least 2 years. Earn a reputation first. That is my best idea for start-ups this decade.
It is also the best way to go out of business this decade. By only flying one route you are making it incredibly easy for competitors to push you out. With one aircraft you are screwed if it has a MX issue. With one daily roundtrip you are again making it easy for competitors to push you out and depending on the distance between the two cities you are getting horrible aircraft utilization.
You can't earn a reputation if you are around for less than a month.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12556 posts, RR: 64 Reply 21, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3062 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3): PHF + delays with the DOT and other assorted junk = maybe this won't happen.
MAYBE this won't happen?
I'm guessing this one never gets one bird aloft. Ever.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5524 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2785 times:
Quoting United_fan (Reply 13): It also states they are going to use ex-QF 734's. Hasn't QF had a bunch of trouble with them,that's why they're retiring them.
QF is getting rid of their 734's because they're getting old. The QF 734's are being replaced by 738's and Jetstar Airbus aircraft.
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2678 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22): I think the stupidest part of this whole plan is PHF. I mean what are they going to with that?!
But PHF need another big airline, since Air Tran merge with Southwest and left PHF.
xjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2345 posts, RR: 52 Reply 25, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2730 times:
Right now, it s really a catch 22 for a start up airline. With an economy as shaky as it is now, the cost of fuel, and an industry that is extremely volitaile and ever changing creates an unbelievably shaky ground to start up on. Without the capital to purchase new aircraft and having to order older/aging aircraft spikes mx costs. Airport fees (gate, ticketcounter, baggage rental space costs), landing fees, fuel prices, catering, employee pay, healthcare, insurance, unforseen costs, etc add up real quickly. If PHF is the best economic choice for long term financial gain, that's probably why they are looking there.
Granted they could find a niche market and capiltalize on those travelers, but as mature (and still ever changing) as the US market is, any start up is going to be behind the 8-ball from the start. I am curious as to how this pans out and how the company leaders take the concept and ultimately the airline forward.
CIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1990 posts, RR: 3 Reply 26, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2709 times:
Quoting 747400sp (Reply 24):
But PHF need another big airline, since Air Tran merge with Southwest and left PHF.
PHF would be better off trying to get Frontier expand, or lure Spirit or Jet Blue to counterpart SWA at ORF. Go after an established carrier than try to get a startup based at your airport. The chances of success would be much greater, otherwise you will end up like another CMH with the Skybus debacle.
kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 3627 posts, RR: 7 Reply 27, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2674 times:
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 26): PHF would be better off trying to get Frontier expand, or lure Spirit or Jet Blue to counterpart SWA at ORF. Go after an established carrier than try to get a startup based at your airport. The chances of success would be much greater, otherwise you will end up like another CMH with the Skybus debacle.
You have to understand that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity for PHF. Even if you have doubt, it's still something you should support and embrace. If it works out, you hit the jackpot. If not, F9 and B6 will still exist..and if not them someone else.
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8802 posts, RR: 19 Reply 28, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2149 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 15): Southwest is scheduled to start PBI-PVD and PBI-PIT nonstop in February 2013. Don't know how well a start-up would fare again WN.
Yeah, as seasonal service, tho.
I could see PIT working tho. From an operational/competition standpoint, It's no longer a major connecting hub but it still serves a large catchment area. Now, from an economical/financial standpoint, I view it as iffy. Even though the ACAA is working with this airline, I still think the fees at PIT will prove uneconomical. Unfortunately, we're looking at those fees sticking around for perhaps another five years until the airport debt goes away...
For anyone wanting to jump on this saying, "if PIT has so much demand, then someone would have jumped at it already." Well, someone did, and that someone was Southwest. A few years ago, there was discussion about Kelly wanting to operate upwards of 60 to 70 daily departures to more than a dozen new markets out of PIT. Some time later, Penrod thought it was a good idea to hike up the landing and terminal lease fees substantially, thus ending such talk of such service...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 31, posted (9 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1678 times:
Quoting canyonblue17 (Reply 15): Southwest is scheduled to start PBI-PVD and PBI-PIT nonstop in February 2013. Don't know how well a start-up would fare again WN.
I think thats a sign that WN is taking them at least semi-seriously, even though on a seasonal basis those flights are safe-bets.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
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