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Delta Suspend IST Operations  
User currently offlinefiriko From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 151 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19524 times:

Rumuor has it Delta will be suspending IST operations and is more then likely to axe it shortly after.

It's sad to see the first nonstop service from USA to Turkey to come to an end

Turkish Airlines and United will be celebrating their victory  

In my personel opininon Delta always underestimated the Turkish market. Izmır office was closed despite the highest sales figures in Europe so was IST reservations in favour of online sales.

Seems they will be suspending services in favour of AirFrance but what they don't know is Airfrance is generally a clueless airline in the Turkish market.

137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2943 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19492 times:

The fact is that growth in a market only goes so far and there's usually a loser in the process. DL is the one to go first in this example.

As IST is a Star hub, it's also not surprising that this is the outcome.


User currently offlinefiriko From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19445 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
DL is the one to go first in this example.

I expected more from Delta. It's sad to see them getting ready to leave just after United started.

You would think a few marketing tricks and a competitive product would do the deal


User currently offlineTeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19368 times:

Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
Seems they will be suspending services in favour of AirFrance but what they don't know is Airfrance is generally a clueless airline in the Turkish market.



With all due respect, such throw away statements take away from the discussion on this board. What proof do you have that AF is generally clueless when it comes to the Turkish market? Is it simply a disdain for AF or are there quantitative numbers you can provide?

I am happy to be corrected if you have any information, but as a person who has taken AF to IST this year originating at LHR, the loads have been fantastic on a A319 and the route was better priced than direct on BA or TK (by a few hundred pounds) or connecting on LH or LX and they also seem to be connecting a number of people across the Atlantic. I sat next to quite a nice Brazilian couple on one of the flights down. As such, AF could upgrade to an A320 if they can get a number of DL connecting passengers. Especially with the opening of S4, CDG will be much easier for connections onto non Schengen countries.

So please before the general bashing of AF goes one step further, please provide the evidence for such "cluelessness"

Regards,

Team



Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX, VS, VN, K6
User currently offlinefiriko From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19199 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 3):
proof do you have that AF is generally clueless when it comes to the Turkish market? Is it simply a disdain for AF or are there quantitative numbers you can provide?

I have flown on Air France many times myself and to me that goes far beyond numbers.


and you dont need numbers when you approach the Air France desk @ IST with a ticket and they give you a blank face or ask you to call some international number who doesn't speak your language

Airlines become clueless when they look at people as numbers and your statement or questions i should say is the proof you are seeking to prove my case.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19148 times:

Before we really get going here, is this rumor or fact? I will believe it when I see it.

I flew this route in 1997 nonstop on DL. And I also flew it on PA via FRA.

So DL has name recognition to IST.

But I do agree competition has really been increasing.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 19068 times:

I also want to know if DL really is axing this.

This route has been flown for decades.

JV and alliances are changing US-Europe travel. This may be another evolution. Stay tuned.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 19005 times:

Quoting TeamInTheSky (Reply 3):
Is it simply a disdain for AF or are there quantitative numbers you can provide?

Well they did launch a 4 weekly flight from Marseille to Istanbul which proved to be a catastrophe. Maybe that is what he was referring to?


User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10375 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 18936 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
I also want to know if DL really is axing this.

I realize this can change, but Delta.com shows it still operating, at least up thru March of next year. You'd think they would have made an announcement by now.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 8 hours ago) and read 18887 times:

Although said if true, it really wouldn't surprise me. With fuel and the overall economy the way it, I think airlines will depend more and more on their alliance partners. If FF's can earn and redeem their miles then any route that is losing money or marginal at best would be better provided by a partner. I'm not saying DL is losing money on the route I'm just speaking generally.


From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25059 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18697 times:

If it happens, it happen. DL has continued to be ever more marginalized in the Turkey market, now carrying mostly the deep discount crowd, plus package and cruise traffic clients. At one time they had many dozen corporate accounts, and was well thought of having inherited the very strong Pan Am franchise in Turkey. In recent years capacity in winters has been trimmed extensively as well.

As far as comments about Air France, while Skyteam might not have a very strong branding or popularity in Turkey these days compared to Star, but AF, AZ, KL all continue to have and have long had significant operations in the country. As point of trivia even, it was Air France predecessor company that operated the first ever international air service to Turkey back in 1922 over Paris – Bucharest – Istanbul routing.

But as Delta has done in other markets (JFK-Athens for example), many deeper Europe markets can be reached via partners hubs quite easily on code-share basis. With the JV in place across the Atlantic, DL now has many more viable market and revenue options that did not exist prior.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18646 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
In recent years capacity in winters has been trimmed extensively as well.

Winter capacity actually has been at 5x weekly, which is not that 'extensive' a trimming; UA is also planning on operating EWR-IST 5x weekly this winter.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18604 times:

As I said it's true this is an old PAN AM route, which I have flown.

But longevity does not mean forever. GYE was CO's first south american route and it's now gone for instance.

I agree, it seems nothing is surprising anymore.. AF dropping EWR, and CO dropping IAH-CDG were surprises, and they had been around awhile also.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25059 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18367 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 11):
Winter capacity actually has been at 5x weekly, which is not that 'extensive' a trimming;

Was it not initially loaded for 4x weekly this winter ? Anyhow they cant seem to quite decide if its a 763-764 or 330 in recent years. Going from daily 330 to 5x 763 is drop from 1700 to 1000'ish seats.

Quoting panamair (Reply 11):
UA is also planning on operating EWR-IST 5x weekly this winter.

True but UA is new player, and also have advantage of being able to utilize the double daily TK to JFK during the winter.

Before the UA route became a reality this year, it had been under review for 3-4 years now including on the CO side aswell. Matter of fact my original recommendation was for UA(CO) to run it seasonally, as how they ran Athens for many years, but more recently it became clear a year-round ops could be supported as Delta's performance continued to weaken in the market even as the total market size continued to grow.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18369 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 12):
As I said it's true this is an old PAN AM route, which I have flown.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 10):
and was well thought of having inherited the very strong Pan Am franchise in Turkey.

Did Pan Am ever operate nonstop from the U.S. to IST? I don't think so. I checked about 7 timetables from the 1960s/70s/80s and couldn't find any nonstops.

In 1983 their only IST service was a change-of-gauge tag-on 737-200 via FRA and only 5 per week.

In 1985 and 1987 their only IST service was a daily 727 change-of gauge service via GVA and ZRH. The 727 operated IST-GVA-ZRH, and passengers to JFK could connect at ZRH to a ZRH-JFK 747. So IST-JFK required 2 stops and one change of aircraft, and the IST-GVA-ZRH routing involved a backhaul in the opposite direction GVA-ZRH which added to the elapsed time. There must have been many much better and faster one-stop connecting options on other carriers via FRA/ZRH/CDG/LHR then.

And in earlier years IST was never better than a one-stop via FRA.


User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 18341 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

TK is actually now 3x daily

THY1/2 operated by a 77W
THY3/4 operated by a a333
THY11/12 operated by a 77W


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25059 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 18197 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
Did Pan Am ever operate nonstop from the U.S. to IST? I don't think so. I checked about 7 timetables from the 1960s/70s/80s and couldn't find any nonstops.

No PA never did nonstop to the US. When the A310-300s arrived in the late 80s its was considered for a single summer season, but the route was simply too long to make it viable on the A310 without a stop.

The PA peak for IST was the double daily 747 round the world service of PA 1 & 2.

PA also served Ankara on several occasions, but its Turkish service existed continually since the 50s over a variety of routings (via Rome for a long period).
Also PA did extensive charters to Turkey primarily from Germany as part of its IGS service, so one could see PA in places like Izmir and Antalya as well.

With the freedom to sell lots of global destinations, PA became quite a popular carrier in the Turkish society by the 1960s. You could reach many points in Europe, Middle East, Asia and off course America all on Pan Am.

Also besides the commercial aspect, PA had a part in Turkish aviation as well. For instance the first 2 TK 707s were leased and crewed by Pan Am in the 1960s. Later PA trained Turkish crews to operate the aircraft which remained in the PA fleet. PA help build up much of the TK maintenance infrastructure in the 60s and 70s, PA helped with the first IT reservations system at TK (offshot of PANAMAC), and in later years even helped TK establish ETOPS A310 Atlantic ops qualifications. Also due currency transfer restrictions back in the day, Pan Am got involved in other businesses including even and advertising agency (which no doubt helped with PA's PR)

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 15):
TK is actually now 3x daily

That is the current summer -- I was discussing winter.

[Edited 2012-07-22 10:25:18]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 18147 times:

Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
In my personel opininon Delta always underestimated the Turkish market. Izmır office was closed despite the highest sales figures in Europe so was IST reservations in favour of online sales.

Do you have any proof that IST had the highest sales figures in Europe as well as reservations having the highest numbers?
I would doubt both of those statements.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 18151 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Was it not initially loaded for 4x weekly this winter ?

No, JFK-IST was loaded at 5x. JFK-PRG was loaded as 4x weekly this winter (was 5x last winter), and then they decided to suspend it for the winter (coming back March 30).

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 15):

TK is actually now 3x daily

TK will be 2x daily 77W during the winter. Departures are either a very early 1255pm from JFK or the late 1115p

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
and also have advantage of being able to utilize the double daily TK to JFK during the winter.

Don't know if it's in the works, but UA doesn't codeshare on TK's JFK services; in fact US is the codeshare partner on TK's JFK-IST flights currently. While TK being in *A with UA is a good way for UA to generate Turkey-originating traffic, the UA-TK relationship doesn't seem that 'close', considering that they have very recently revised (reduced) their codeshare agreements, with UA dropping their codes on TK's Europe-IST flights, and TK cutting the number of US domestic codeshares on UA, as well as on UA's transatlantic flights.....


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7114 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 18116 times:

Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
Izmır office was closed despite the highest sales figures in Europe

An offline sales office had the highest sales in Europe? Really?

Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
United will be celebrating their victory

UA flying the route for how long exactly? A little premaure don't you think?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25059 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 18049 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 18):
UA-TK relationship doesn't seem that 'close'

True, but I am working on it   

The pesky A++ JV with LH gets in the way...

Quoting panamair (Reply 18):
with UA dropping their codes on TK's Europe-IST flights, and TK cutting the number of US domestic codeshares on UA, as well as on UA's transatlantic flights.....

Much of that is IT related, and had to get pulled. Once UA finally gets over the Shares hump, they should be able to make class inventory dynamically available for free sale better.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 17914 times:

On a sidebar, when I said I flew this route on PAN AM, what I meant was JFK-IST (same flight number but with the change to the 727 in FRA). I should have clarified this point earlier before it was a flame frenzy against me. I did not mean nonstop.

I also flew the nonstop route on DL. I am aware PA had a strong following in Turkey. I never really had the impression DL worked as hard to maintain this from what little i could tell.

Anyway, it would not surprise me if DL cuts the route. Airlines can look at ways to maximize their relationships.

And I flew the PA tagon to ESB from IST.

[Edited 2012-07-22 10:56:40]

User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7396 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 17218 times:

Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
Turkish Airlines and United will be celebrating their victory

How many flights does TK have to the states, and where do they fly to?

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 1):
As IST is a Star hub, it's also not surprising that this is the outcome.

That's true. Does US have service to IST?

Also: What's the service options like for us SkyTeam members   ? I'm planning a trip to Eregli in a year or so to see a girl from my college   



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25059 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 16963 times:

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 21):
I never really had the impression DL worked as hard to maintain this from what little i could tell.

You are right - especially over time.

Following the 1991 takeover they left things alone for the most part for a year or so.

But over time things saw big changes. The PA airport staff was replaced by vendors, ticket office staff was reduced (they left the famous Hilton hotel location), Turkish flight attendants were let go, they never took up the opportunity to serve Ankara which they had said they would at the time of the route purchase, some bizarre reorganization changes for Delta in Europe which left a weaker sales organization and people in charge of Turkey that had never been to the country. etc..

In fairness for Delta many of these changes were economic based, however over time the goodwill that Pan Am had established in Turkey started shifting to other airlines.

Also does not help that THY was spreading its wings, and each year the carrier slowly grew stronger with its market share pie getting bigger as well.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
How many flights does TK have to the states, and where do they fly to?



The summer schedule is 3x daily to JFK, and daily to ORD, IAD, and LAX. In Canada they also serve YYZ.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
What's the service options like for us SkyTeam members

You have AF, AZ and KL serving Turkey via their hubs.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25117 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 16913 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 22):
Quoting firiko (Thread starter):
Turkish Airlines and United will be celebrating their victory

How many flights does TK have to the states, and where do they fly to?
JFK - 3 daily (2 777-300ER, 1 A330-300). The A330 flight is peak only, May to mid-September.
IAD - 1 daily A340-300
ORD - 1 daily A330-200
LAX - 1 daily 777-300ER
IAH - 4 x week 777-300ER (starting April 1, 2013)

And YYZ - 4 x week 777-300ER

[Edited 2012-07-22 13:07:36]

25 captainstefan : Funny with the aforementioned 'distant' relationship between UA and TK. Not to mention that loads to and from IST on the newly launched flight are lo
26 firiko : Fact really but rumor until officially announced and i suppose they can delay announcing it as they relay on SkyTeam Izmir was the station that was a
27 ordjoe : I can not see IST having a high demand for premium traffic. Yes they can fill the planes. but whenever I TK lines at ORD most of them seem like VFR tr
28 firiko : I seriously doubt they have Delta's best interest because if you are ticketed by Delta on any of these carrier flights early in the morning when the
29 PHX787 : Just did some toying around on the DL website, and as of today it still shows DL72 (767) from JFK in February 2013, and also a number of codeshares:
30 jfklganyc : "IST is pretty well served already especially from EWR and JFK." Yes...served by Delta well for a long time out of JFK. Why are they folding tent so e
31 STT757 : A DL ad banner just popped up advertising service to Istanbul, funny.
32 burj : If given a choice of a direct flight on UA/TK between NYC and IST or a connection on DL/AF via CDG which do you think most consumers will pick? Given
33 YULWinterSkies : Easy. They will pick the flight with connection because it is cheaper. Of course they won't know that connecting in CDG is a nightmare. But it won't
34 gemuser : That's interesting! Exactly the same thing happened to me with a DL issued RTW Sky Team ticket on KE at VVO in 2010. the Russian check in agent calle
35 klwright69 : Yes, interesting. I remember PA did have Turkish flight attendants, and I took PA one to Ankara as well.
36 firiko : Delta still has Turkish speaking flight attendants.
37 turkishraf : I flew air France to IST ex LHR in J and it was atrocious. KLM J the same . Economy seats for J and cold food no choice. As for DL as you say, they ne
38 mixalakhs : I was surprise Delta made ATH seasonal as there will be no other direct flight on W12 between USA and Greece and kept IST, by the time Turkish airline
39 TK787 : I have done JFK-IST on DL for many many years and like LAXintl says, mostly because of being a Skymiles sucker. After 5 years not flying with them, I
40 Icarus75 : AF clueless in the Turkish market? I'm flying AF once a week between DUS & CDG and everytime, there are at least 10 pax with a connection to IST.
41 tommy767 : I don't know if I believe this rumor. DL has flown JFK-IST for many, many years and up until this summer was the only US carrier on the route. Could b
42 klwright69 : Thanks, not thinking there for a second.. Was thinking about all the years CO flew the route, like DL to IST.
43 catiii : And posters on this board become clueless when they make sweeping generalizations about an airline's marketing intelligence in a market based on a ba
44 panamair : Loads were/are not a problem for Delta to/from IST. That's probably more the issue for Delta...TK consistently has some of the lowest fares (in all c
45 turkishraf : I must agree with firkin. Air France are clueless. Food is fundamental to Turks and AF served a single cold dish (with a fantastic selection of wines
46 rwsea : We'll see if this turns out to be true, but I wouldn't be surprised it is. TK has made huge inroads to the US market over the past few years and has
47 catiii : And I've flown Turkish Airlines where all I have gotten is a cold sandwich in economy, so the point is...?
48 panamair : If product were such a huge driver, TK wouldn't be one of the cheapest J options in many markets. As I said, TK is often in the top 3 of cheapest J o
49 leftyboarder : As opposed to zilch in DL? By the way, TK only serves cold sandwiches in domestic or very short Euro routes; otherwise it is much more than that. AF
50 tommy767 : From what I understand DL flies the enhanced 763 with AVOD and lie flat J seats on JFK-IST pretty consistently with the 333 operating somtimes as wel
51 mayor : You people have absolutely NO patience for what DL is trying to do.........sad, really. When was the last time you flew on DL (if ever) or are you ju
52 panamair : Delta only operated the A332 on JFK-IST one summer; they have never used the A333 to IST.
53 catiii : So let me make sure I have this right: the poster said that food is so fundamental to the Turkish people, and therefore he is so offended that AF wou
54 panamair : oops, too late to edit...meant to say Do&Co
55 leftyboarder : No, the point is that, you are comparing TK domestic with AF Europe short haul. One of them is 1hr long whereas CDG-IST is over 3hrs. Yes TK serves c
56 Post contains images rwy04lga : Zilch (as in no food) in economy on DL to IST? I'll take your word for it.
57 LAXintl : TK is in the business these days trying to buy market share to build their transit hub. Try to fare some Turkey O&D tickets, and you will see how
58 MaverickM11 : No it does not. Guaranteed. If it did there'd be no LCCs in Turkey, no SAW.
59 MSPNWA : I'm only seeing the old 767 configuration in the current schedule. Kinda hard to be patient with DL. Most 763s are still in the stone age. If it cost
60 usdcaguy : I must say this is the strangest thread I've seen in a long time. We don't even have confirmation of DL's plans, and here we are theorizing about what
61 rwsea : TK is trying to build brand awareness and position themselves for the future. They're investing heavily in marketing in Western Europe and are hoping
62 Post contains images mayor : Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors Kinda makes you wonder, if it's so bad, why you haven't taken that connection before now
63 panamair : I am not doubting that DL is struggling in the market...hence I have not made any comment in any of my posts here that contradicts that notion. As I
64 fpetrutiu : I think DL would be better served if they re-open OTP especially since now they can use RO as a feeder and OTP is a SkyTeam hub. RO can also provide D
65 burj : Um....which airports (major hubs) are worse for transiting than CDG? You just have to compare CDG to AMS to see the night and day difference. Exactly
66 MaverickM11 : It really has very little to do with product. TK has lower costs than DL, so it's always going to be able to undercut DL. In the local market it offe
67 fpetrutiu : I agree, CDG must be the world's worst airport to connect through. I hate going there (was just through there last month). From all my travels, I hav
68 usdcaguy : This is true, but unfortunately, AF/KL also fly to RUH/BEY/DAM (until recently)/LCA (via CY) and AMM. There is still significant overlap within Europ
69 fpetrutiu : lol, I would pay $200 more not to fly through CDG...
70 catiii : So then if food matters so much to the Turkish people then where is your outrage at Turkish's domestic offering? The premise of the poster's argument
71 LAXintl : You realize the average GDP in Turkey is about $15,000 compared to about $48,000 for the US right. Certainly things like labor cost, and cost of serv
72 leftyboarder : You still fail to get the point. On a domestic flight with no more than 30 minutes without seat belt sign off, you can hardly serve a cold sandwich -
73 tcm : People usually underestimate that catering is part of the experience for the regular customer. On almost every flight I hear pax commenting on the gr
74 Post contains images firiko : In my opinion selling tickets doesn't get you market awarness. In fact they pay a very satisfactory salary compared to the rest of the industries in
75 usdcaguy : Would you mind explaining what that means, exactly? How much would that be in TRY on a monthly basis? How does this compare to salaries at DL or BA?
76 SurfandSnow : This isn't the first time I've heard this rumor, and I would not be at all surprised to see it come true. DL expanded rapidly in the transatlantic rea
77 gokmengs : Wow! This is an interesting thread for sure. I am very much connected to this route as I have close to a million miles on it as I have been flying the
78 leftyboarder : Mostly spot on, except a few points I disagree. First; I wouldn't compare IST with OTP or BUD, by all means much smaller cities in much smaller natio
79 umit : Gloomy economic prospects: The Turkish economy is heavily linked with that of the E.U., with over half of all imports and exports of Turkey going to/f
80 Post contains links tcm : As leftyboarder pointed out, the EU accounts for less than half of imports and exports. The trend is declining. Although still important. See: http:/
81 catiii : No, I get the point. The poster made a sweeping absolute statement. He didn't qualify it at all. Details matter, so I called him on it.
82 jfklganyc : "DL is not as well positioned at JFK despite their better efforts; they have to get much more originating traffic from JFK that flies only to IST, tra
83 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Perhaps, but no one is paying more for it. No one. And I mean no one, is buying a TK ticket based on the meal they serve. And this is from someone wh
84 tcm : The inflight meal is certainly not the only consideration, but, whether you like it or not, it does influence the purchasing behaviour of many. Espec
85 panamair : Yup, looks like it's going seasonal. DL just loaded the change, last JFK-IST this year is on Nov 17, last IST-JFK will be on Nov 18. Flight will resum
86 bobnwa : Delta has just announced seasonal servive to IST. So Much for the naysayers who coming up with reasons for the Delta suspension of service,or cancelat
87 Icarus75 : I've been several times to US with connections in many airports. I've had bad or very bad experiences in ORD, ATL, CVG and the worse DFW!
88 MaverickM11 : People in Turkey choose TK? Must be the meals.
89 Post contains images tcm : They could be flying DL
90 mixalakhs : [quote=MaverickM11,reply=66][/ For me it is LHR.
91 mixalakhs : Sorry for my previous post I made a mistake. LHR for me it is the worse airport to connect a flight.
92 LAXintl : Somehow 757,000 managed to visited in 2011. Turkey might not be as a mainstream destination such as a UK or Germany for US citizens, but arrivals fro
93 fpetrutiu : That would never work. There is more chance for a JFK/ATL to OTP to KIV/LCA/RUH/BEY/DAM. I know some are served by AF/KLM but like KIV/LCA are not. T
94 Viscount724 : Is that number strictly tourists, or does include all visitors? If the latter, I would excpect a significant number are VFR, possibly a larger compon
95 tommy767 : Whoo. Just as predicted. 95 replies later, let's give another round of applause for another fine BS a.net rumor.
96 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Seems pretty on target to me DL is suspending it seasonally, and it's not unheard of for a route to go "seasonal" and then never return
97 LAXintl : Its part of border statistics reporting US citizens tourist arrivals in 2011 per the Turkish Ministry of Culture & Tourism. I believe they verify
98 mercure1 : I wonder in the long run if airline networks will continue to shed many such non-alliance partner destination routes. Now Turkey-USA nonstop is 100% l
99 tommy767 : Many of the JFK-Europe flights go seasonal for Delta -- especially since last year when fuel spiked again. This is typical, and rather smart.
100 mercure1 : Yes seems typical for DL, but is it smart for marketing approach? Are US airlines not always chasing “the business traveler” and looking to improv
101 panamair : Yes, but most of those seasonal European markets are not big business markets from the U.S. Notice that come hell or high water, DL is not cutting ba
102 STT757 : As mentioned previously DL released schedules with their trans-Atlantic seasonal suspensions a while back, the fact that they waited this long for thi
103 MaverickM11 : Many have also gone seasonal, never to return.
104 CALPSAFltSkeds : That must mean many DL JFK-Europe routes don't cater to the year around business traveler, so the yields must not be that good. Doesn't take much to
105 usdcaguy : Do you happen to know which ones off the top of your head? The main Transatlantic markets that I can think of that DL has cancelled completely in the
106 Post contains links delta2ual : I agreed with your entire post until this. As someone who's worked for both and still has very close connections to both airlines (partner's a pilot
107 mercure1 : Interesting concept – Delta wishes essentially to become a summer charter airline for many of its European markets. I guess times are changing. The
108 SurfandSnow : This is a list of all recent transatlantic route cuts I can think of. In most cases, the routes went seasonal or had temporary suspensions before bei
109 STT757 : Gothenburg?
110 PHX787 : The CVG routes were the cuts made by DL either before or after the merger.
111 usdcaguy : Thanks for posting this. There's been so many, it's easy to lose track! Although this is always the case, I don't see DL redeploying the aircraft int
112 Post contains images leftyboarder : Maybe DL to BEY or RUH? Seriously, although JVs and alliances make it easy for the airlines to offer more options with less metal, it is beginning to
113 jfklganyc : "Many have also gone seasonal, never to return." Not really out of JFK dude. DL always did seasonal reductions and in the past 2 years seasonal suspen
114 panamair : Deep seasonal swings in transatlantic traffic has been a given for decades. It was the case even when Pan Am and TWA were around, it is the case toda
115 tommy767 : Doubt it. DL has been a competitor at IST for years. This isn't MEM-AMS. Well for one, they will be needing to take several 763s out of service durin
116 panamair : Bookings actually don't look half bad compared to other European destinations, etc. Probably has more to do with the pricing in the market...UA (and
117 LAXintl : This is a fair enough point. Delta has opted to take the path that neither a consistent schedule, nor market presence on year-round basis is importan
118 mercure1 : Well especially in smaller markets, people become very knowledgeable of what air links they might have, especially overseas one. Delta certainly won
119 Post contains images LAXintl : In bid to capture any interested Delta Skymiles prisoners, Turkish Airlines is matching status. TK is offering its Elite level (Star Gold) to any DL G
120 tommy767 : Name one US airline flying Pisa, Venice, or Athens to the USA during the winter? None. DL is about as global as they come these days. We all forget,
121 mayor : Obviously, the pax aren't interested as global travellers to pay the fares that would make a half full a/c pay for itself. PanAm went out of business
122 mpdpilot : What would you have Delta do? Delta has limited resources. Operate the flight year round? There are only so many people flying between Turkey and the
123 tommy767 : I'll be the first to say that I think UA will even feel some strain on operating EWR-IST during the winter.
124 LAXintl : Me? I have no problem with it as per my response below. Delta is free to become a summer season tourist airline to these points. I just think its a s
125 PSU.DTW.SCE : It isn't necessarily about DL having a market presence, it is about Skyteam, which will still have a prescence in IST. The fact is the nonstop JFK-IS
126 firiko : You know what would be freaking good ? If Delta axed JFK IST and started ATL IST instead and this is my gut feeling . So hold your horses until Delta
127 usdcaguy : Can you explain why business travelers will now be avoiding DL flights when booking travel during peak season? By stating the above, you seem to be s
128 AeroWesty : If you prefer nonstop flights in this market, and fly year-round, there's no incentive to fly DL for only the summer months. Those flights could be p
129 LAXintl : Delta did try a ATL-IST nonstop --- circa 99/00. Was MD-11 as I recall. Absolutely - companies establish travel agreements, or have incentive deals w
130 PSU.DTW.SCE : Let's keep it in perspective: 1) The nonstop DL JFK-IST is still planning to operate nearly 8 months out of the year 2) The only significant market th
131 usdcaguy : Almost every sizeable agency and company already has an agreement with DL as it is the number two airline in the world (sometimes number one, dependi
132 airlittoralguy : Does someone know what was the schedule for Delta former flights from Istanbul to Atlanta ? Thanks for your help.
133 gokmengs : Can you explain why business travelers will now be avoiding DL flights when booking travel during peak season? Let me explain; I fly the route almost
134 Post contains links Viscount724 : ATL-IST started June 1, 1999, 3 per week MD-11. They also commenced ATL-ATH 4 per week at the same time. Not sure how long it lasted. According to th
135 Post contains images delta2ual : Yes times have indeed changed. Airlines that operated that way for years are now gone (PA,TW) or have gone through BK (every other US carrier). I wil
136 LAXintl : Um, if Turkey was dandy for Delta they would not be cutting service. Delta at one time had a good brand, good option, and lots of good will inherited
137 SESGDL : This situation isn't exclusive to DL, but to all US carriers. The only reason UA has any change of surviving on EWR-IST is the fact that TK is a Star
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