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Malaysian To Park 747 Fleet  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27751 times:

According to Malaysian CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya, the carrier will park its remaining 9 747-400 aircraft by the end of November. He also mentioned the 777 fleet would be "gone in 3 years".

I guess the financial upheavals, and change strategy is the normal course at MH these days.


Looking in GDS, the last 744 flight I can see operates SYD-KUL on November 25th.


Story:
Malaysia Air Speeds Boeing Exit from Fleet
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/malays...ing-exit-from-fleet-20120709-01693

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27741 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
777 fleet would be "gone in 3 years"

I suppose the latest iteration of the IGW A330-200/300 should serve all of their intl long haul needs?


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27757 times:

Strange they're parking the 777 too. Sad to see both being parked  

Are the 747s going to be converted to freighters like the others?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8076 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27759 times:

I think we all know the 747* is a gas-guzzler by 2012 standards and her days are numbered. Surprised they're looking at exiting the 777. Most airlines see it as part of the solution, not part of the problem. If the 777 is uneconomical for MAS, what is economical? Is the A330 so much better? I think of the two as fairly closely matched.

* was spotting at the threshold of 27R at LHR today - fantastic - and BA sure rule the roost with 747s. In fact I don't think I saw a 747 of another airline all afternoon. (Koreanair flew over my flat in East London when I got home.) I wonder how BA can expect to make money with 54 747s when everyone else has parked theirs.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3223 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27721 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I think we all know the 747* is a gas-guzzler by 2012 standards and her days are numbered.

A more commercially astute airline can still make it pay though let's be honest, a bad workman blames his tools.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27705 times:

Looking a bit deeper some of the currently 744 deployed markets will become as follows:

LHR – 7x 380, 7x 777
SYD – 7x 380, 7x 777

With random regional flying getting 738, 330 and 777 assigned.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 885 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27582 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I wonder how BA can expect to make money with 54 747s when everyone else has parked theirs.

A paid off 747 might still make you more money than a 777 or 330 that you have to pay lease payments on. BA has found a way to make 54 744s make them cash, in fact , its international ops make up most of its profits.


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1320 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 27507 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):
I suppose the latest iteration of the IGW A330-200/300 should serve all of their intl long haul needs?

I know they have about 10 -300's on order, but how many -200's? Will the -200 make it to Europe non-stop?

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I wonder how BA can expect to make money with 54 747s when everyone else has parked theirs.

DL, UA, KL, LH, TG, QF, all still have a significant fleet of 747 in service.  



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30855 posts, RR: 86
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 27279 times:
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The A330-300 will be fine for regional missions and a fair bit more efficient than the 777-200ER thanks to lower OEWs and MTOWs. And as they have the same seat count, there is no loss in capacity.

For longer missions, the A330-200 will take a payload hit due to it's smaller size, but with the heavier premium cabin and smaller Economy cabin, MH could be looking to increase RASM by reducing capacity on such routes.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26979 times:

I guess 744 values will only continue to drop as more global airlines park their fleets. From what I can tell most the fleet is leased so the carrier will only a few frames to market on its own.

I suspect with the recent arrival of the A380, the 744 somewhat lost its place. With 380 going on a few trunk routes like LHR and SYD, and the 777 running pretty much everything else longhaul, the 744 was probably too inefficient to hang onto. One does not need a 744 for a HKG or China hop when an A330 can do it easily.

The idea of dumping the 777 it’s a bit more perplexing, but I suppose here also MH made a mistake by continuing to build a herd of now 17 strong 777-200ER’s, when the world was instead adopting mostly the -300ER. Just off the bat, MH loses 40-50 seats of revenue compared to peers with the 77W.


Anyhow the continued problems of MH are a bit sad.

As shown over and over they do win awards for their service and product, they just have yet to be able to put together a financial plan to go along with it.

Endless government medling, over staffing, trial and error network all hurt the bottom line.

I was hoping entry into Oneworld would be the inspiration to blossom, but it seems the story simply repeats itself with MAS.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineZaphodB From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26942 times:

So is the LAX flight going to be a 330 or a 380? ... or canned?

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26919 times:

Quoting ZaphodB (Reply 10):
So is the LAX flight going to be a 330 or a 380? ... or canned?

Is this the one that connects through NRT or am I mistaken?

I assume it'll be A380



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8323 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26923 times:
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Quoting phxa340 (Reply 6):
A paid off 747 might still make you more money than a 777 or 330 that you have to pay lease payments on. BA has found a way to make 54 744s make them cash, in fact , its international ops make up most of its profits.

BA's average sector with a 744 is probably 3 hours less then Malaysia's when you consider the US east coast and all the BA 744's to those cities.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26768 times:

Quoting ZaphodB (Reply 10):
So is the LAX flight going to be a 330 or a 380? ... or canned?

744 was pulled off LAX earlier this year and became a 772.

They also swapped the intermediate stop to NRT from TPE.

Malaysian Airlines Adjust US Service (by LAXintl Jan 10 2012 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26499 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
According to Malaysian CEO Ahmad Jauhari Yahya, the carrier will park its remaining 9 747-400 aircraft by the end of November. He also mentioned the 777 fleet would be "gone in 3 years".

What is up with the 777s? Have they selected a replacement? I'm not aware of a Malaysia A350 or 787 order...

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):

I think we all know the 747* is a gas-guzzler by 2012 standards and her days are numbered.

744 days are numbered. The 748 has life left. In particular after weight is removed.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 3):
I wonder how BA can expect to make money with 54 747s when everyone else has parked theirs.

BA needs to develop a strategy to replace both the 744s, but also the IB A346s. I will be very curious to see what they do (as will most of us on a.net).

I personally see a mix of 77Ws, A380s, and a possibility of a 748i subfleet. But the last would be dependent upon Boeing improving 748i performance, in particular empty weight and fuel burn.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 6):
A paid off 747 might still make you more money than a 777 or 330 that you have to pay lease payments on.

If the 744 had any resale value that wouldn't be the case. The 777 burns 15% less fuel per passenger. That is about a 6% lower cost per seat mile or about half the lease. So if that paid off 747 requires expensive maintenance (which a 4 engine plane is likely to require just by stats), than no. That comment made more sense when fuel was 20% of the operating costs and the lease was 15% to 20%. Now fuel is 40% and the lease is 12% to 15%. However, an airline with rapid fleet turnover such as SQ and EK will keep maintenance to

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30855 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26437 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
What is up with the 777s? Have they selected a replacement?

They appear to be looking at the 240t A330-200 and A330-300X.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26390 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I personally see a mix of 77Ws, A380s, and a possibility of a 748i subfleet

It would be highly unlikely that they'd be interested in the 748. It seems they will use the A380 for their flagship routes and the A330s for a significant regional network. They have realised they can't be a match for SQ so will gradually give up lesser long-haul routes and use Oneworld partners to maintain a significant virtual network.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 26320 times:

Unsurprising decision given the 380s slowly coming online. I was MH122/123 ealier in the month in both C and Y, and whilst the service and Y seat pitch helped make up for other shortcomings, the 744 is clearly getting old and dosn't even have the advantages of the ER models which QF is keeping on.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7566 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 26197 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
Quoting ZaphodB (Reply 10):
So is the LAX flight going to be a 330 or a 380? ... or canned?

Is this the one that connects through NRT or am I mistaken?

I assume it'll be A380

It'd be very nice to see MH using the A380 for KUL-NRT-LAX. The updated A333 could make it from NRT to LAX too. Similar routes were mentioned by Airbus as examples of possible routes that the new A333 could do.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
They appear to be looking at the 240t A330-200 and A330-300X.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...as-airbus-a330-revamp-appeals.html

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...s-increases-a330-payload-and-range



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 26103 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
It'd be very nice to see MH using the A380 for KUL-NRT-LAX. The updated A333 could make it from NRT to LAX too. Similar routes were mentioned by Airbus as examples of possible routes that the new A333 could do.

That would make 2 Asian routes connecting through NRT to LAX, including the SQ one.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 17):
Unsurprising decision given the 380s slowly coming online. I was MH122/123 ealier in the month in both C and Y, and whilst the service and Y seat pitch helped make up for other shortcomings, the 744 is clearly getting old and dosn't even have the advantages of the ER models which QF is keeping on.

How many 380s will they get by year's end?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7566 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 26080 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
That would make 2 Asian routes connecting through NRT to LAX, including the SQ one.

Well, that is already happening. MH launched flights to LAX via NRT back in March (?) of this year. Instead of flying to LAX via TPE, MH is now stopping at NRT. It is flights 92 and 93.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2382 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 25919 times:

Does anyone have any insight as to how many B737-400 are still flying given all of the B737-800s being delivered constantly?


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 25799 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
It'd be very nice to see MH using the A380 for KUL-NRT-LAX.

They had daily 744 service at one time, then the frequency was reduced, and now its swapped to even smaller 777.

LAX is no where near near an A380 market for MAS.

I doubt their sole remaining Americas route makes them much if any money.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7566 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 25747 times:

You are right, it probably doesn't. I suppose they will keep the 77E and will eventually use the upgraded A333.


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25046 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 25693 times:

Hey maybe if they can get back the LAX-MEX tag they could use the 380  

We know that flight was packed much to the dismay of the Mexican authorities.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 Post contains images frigatebird : I wonder what aircraft MH will use to AMS, the 772 seems a perfect fit for that destination. It has been rotating between 747 and 777 the past couple
26 United Airline : Oh my.... I know they ordered 6 A380 (firm).What about options? How many?
27 Post contains links and images TreeHillRavens : They ordered 15 -300X, and I think they have 7 or 8 in operation now. They have not ordered any new 332 to date. That's the thing. There is still no
28 Tupolev160 : Really surprised about the 777, what their destiny might become now?
29 United Airline : I thought they have options too. Umm...... Will they order a few more?
30 na : Why? Other than for the 744 there are fine 1:1 replacements for the 777 on the market, or soon will be. A333s, 787s, A350s. And their 777s arent youn
31 Post contains images lightsaber : It would be a very nice way to lose a truck load of money. If anything, that route should be downgauged: The NRT-LAX-NRT sector is just too competiti
32 Post contains links EddieDude : The updated A333, KUL-AMS will be possible. This article: http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-ne...s-increases-a330-payload-and-range discusses how the
33 FlyingHollander : Before they had announced that they would join oneworld AMS was a given for the A380. I would love to see this happen despite the change of plans. Un
34 Post contains images Ps76 : Hi! I shall miss seeing the 747's at Heathrow. I guess it will be A380 with the new color scheme in the future. Many thanks. Pierre
35 ultrapig : I realize that a 777 probably has lower operating costs per sm. However what about an airline like EL which constantly flys full flights. If they can
36 LAXintl : LHR goes mix of A380 and 777 starting this winter.
37 jumpjets : The MAS A380 is already in service to LHR - 3 days a week I think at present, and will increase to daily at the end of August.
38 LAXintl : Yes see my Reply#5 for the winter LHR schedule. It will be a mix of A380 and 772 ops.
39 9MMPQ : There have been several frames which have found homes with other carriers & a few have been subsequently converted. I particularly like the fact
40 AirbusA6 : Yes, I'm looking forward to my first LHR-KUL MH A380 flight in November! It would have been very disappointing to have ended up on a 777...
41 Kent350787 : Not their full order, of course. This move is clearly part of a capacity realignment, rather than just an equipment replacement. MH122/123 also switc
42 9MMPQ : 4 with remaining 2 to be delivered Q1/2013.
43 United Airline : I think they need a few more A380s to replace their B 747-400 fleet. Is this news 100% confirmed?
44 9MMPQ : Haven't seen confirmation on these last flight dates but there's little reason to doubt it. For MH the B744 is absolutely on the way out.
45 Tupolev160 : We are taking about 17 frames and they are still phasing out 9 333. This is a bit awkward fleet revamp (actually downsizing) i have to admit.
46 ZK-NBT : Where would they fly them other than LHR, SYD? MEL and AMS are possibilites but really MH need more 250-300 seaters. I'm picking if they plan to phas
47 Humanitarian : What is the age range of the 747-400's?
48 United Airline : LAX? NRT? Will they restart JNB/EWR/EZE etc one day?
49 9MMPQ : Most of the last in use are in the 10-14 year range. Other frames which have either left the fleet or have been sitting around were/are in the 14-18
50 jfk777 : Malaysia lost tons of money flying to Buenos Aires, why they ever flew to Argentina all the way from Malaysia is a mystery. IF they want to fly to So
51 mogandoCI : If they really want to do LAX on their metal, i'd think something like KUL-KIX-LAX would be better. Minimal competition (if any), slightly higher lan
52 na : MAS 744 fleet is relatively young and most of those plane can easily 10 years more. Sad to see them being sold.
53 Triple Seven : Flying to JNB or EZE is not a mystery. MH was a government instrument and as such was used to further Malaysia's commitment to South-South Cooperatio
54 fanofjets : I know Malaysia has long had financial problems and that fleet changes are not uncommon. Nevertheless, the news is a pity, as I think that the blue-an
55 777way : One 744 was to be converted to freighter not sure if it was for MASkargo or some other operator.
56 LJ : Wouldn't surprise me if MH would leave AMS in a few years time. KL is already increasing KUL to 10 times weekly and sending the 77W few days of the w
57 RWA380 : So once the 777's are gone, then what? an A380 that will loose even more money than the 777 currently flying the toute or downgauge to the 332 or 333
58 RayChuang : Many airlines that can afford it are quickly phasing out their 747-400 fleets because revenue generated by a 744 in 2012 is no longer worth it. As suc
59 9MMPQ : One has gone on to become a Boeing dreamlifter, others have gone to World Airways & Southern Air. None have gone or will go to MASkargo.
60 TreeHillRavens : To see MAS deploying their 388 on KUL-NRT-LAX... With so many seats in the two Premium cabins, AMS definitely won't see MAS 388. MAS was a profitable
61 Viscount724 : The service to EZE was also a convenient way for the former Malaysian prime minister to commute to/from his ranch in Argentina.
62 ZK-NBT : An A332 would be good for NRT-LAX if MH get more, an improved A333 would probably do it ok aswell. They wouldn't hold on to a small number of 777s fo
63 RWA380 : I've heard the NRT-LAX flight does fill up on KE, but at vastly reduced rates vs the big carriers on the route. I'd expect the 332 would be just fine
64 Kent350787 : And has now been announced, from March 2013....
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