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787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 6  
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 43569 times:

Continuing the discussion from Part 5:

787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 5 (by LipeGIG Jun 26 2012 in Civil Aviation)

259 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 43684 times:

So now it's looking like some of the Trent 1000 powered '87s are delayed because of the gear box issue. There are about 5 '87s for ANA and LAN that are ready to be delivered and have engines hanging off them but apparently need the new gear box.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 43647 times:

Does anyone here have any NEW updated pics of the first UA 787 other than the ones that show Obama touring on one?


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 43541 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
There are about 5 '87s for ANA and LAN that are ready to be delivered and have engines hanging off them but apparently need the new gear box.

Its likely that the pacing of the fix will mirror that of ANA's sidelined 787s that await replacement parts from RR

Ironically, might AI's 787's be the next deliveries...

[Edited 2012-07-24 14:52:45]


DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 43101 times:

From Indian aviation thread:

Quoting aeroblogger:
Quoting NYC777 (Reply 179):
According to PTI the GoM is to take up the issue of the AI-Boeing compensation deal. I don't know what that means in terms of finally having these airplanes delivered or if it's just another cog in the bureaucratic wheel but there it is. I'm only guessing that they're going to make their recommedation yea or nay to the CCEA who will then give it their own yea or nay. Thank god for the free market system here or else nothing will ever get done.

http://www.ptinews.com/news/2819650_...orrow

There are approvals left before CCEA can make a decision, GoM being one of them. Currently, it is hoped that all approvals will be taken care of this week, so CCEA can take up the issue early next week

If CCEA approves the package, AI is hoping for delivery of 3 jets on Thursday or Friday.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 43012 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 4):
If CCEA approves the package, AI is hoping for delivery of 3 jets on Thursday or Friday.

Sounds good, but what's the likelihood of approval?



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 42926 times:
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CCEA will approve the package. If they don't, things unravel as far as the negotiations are concerned. Boeing has enough on its plate without tying up completed aircraft waiting for a bloated bureaucratic to wheeze through their process.

AI 's survival is tied into becoming more efficient. These a/c are key to it so they'll eventually pull their heads out. If not, there are plenty of other airlines who'll take them off Boeing's hands.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 42593 times:

GE is ahead of RR in fuel burn, the GE engine started at 3-2.7% over spec and T1000A started at 3-4% over. PIP1 for GE took more than 1.7% off the fuel burn, say with PIP one it is about 1% above spec. With Trent1000B RR is still about 2% above spec. Trent1000C will get it to about 1% above spec. GEs PIP2 should get the GEnx below spec, if it takes another 1.1% off the fuel burn.

PIP2 will be installed in 2013, it still has to get certified this year.

Why the GEnx on the 748 is harder to get to spec must be that it has a smaller fan and is a bleed engine?


User currently onlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7220 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 42303 times:

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 1):
So now it's looking like some of the Trent 1000 powered '87s are delayed because of the gear box issue.

If true, just to throw a plug in for those who speculated that the delayed deliveries was due to some unknown issue, most of the speculation did not seem malicious, but as usual, links for facts were lacking.

Highlights a point made in another thread, once the production ball starts rolling its diffucult to put GE engine frames in front of RR frames while the issue is resolved.
Does however raise a question, could one have both types in Washington but only one engine type in Charleston?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30999 posts, RR: 86
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 41922 times:
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Quoting par13del (Reply 8):
Does however raise a question, could one have both types in Washington but only one engine type in Charleston?

All CHS birds currently have GEnx power, so Boeing might be limiting CHS to GEnx 787-8 airframes to start, but I would expect CHS will eventually assemble frames with Trent 1000 power, as well.


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 40964 times:

Boeing just wrapped up its earnings call. I could not listen to the entire call but was able to pick up the following tid-bits on the 787:

-Production rate still planned to hit 5/month by end of 2012 - 10/month by end of 2013
-Delivery guidance for the 787 remains at 35-42 frames for 2012
-Customer demand is driving monthly delivery rates
-11 delivered to date with an up-tick in delivery rate expected for the remainder of the year.  
-50% will be delivered out of the EMC/ 50% from the line
- EMC to be active for the next 1 1/2 years (maybe longer)
-RR engine issue will not impact delivery guidance.
-When asked if the deliveries could exceed guidance the response was "We have a good plan to meet guidance"
-Supply chain: challenges but no show-stoppers. Aft fuselage remains a concern for production ramp-up
-The 787-10 is shaping up for possible board approval by end of 2012/early 2013, to have strong demand and will be the "perfect" next phase of the 787 program  

Please provide correction, amplifications, and/or new info.

[Edited 2012-07-25 09:11:23]


DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently onlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4988 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 40854 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 10):
Please provide correction, amplifications, and/or new info.

I concur with your take on what was said. I thought the language and voice inflection on the reply to the 787-10 question was extremely positive.


User currently offlinetarheelwings From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 40431 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 10):
11 delivered to date with an up-tick in delivery rate expected for the remainder of the year.

Haven't there been 12 787s delivered this year?

Overall a very optimistic outlook for the 787, let's hope there are no surprises for the rest of the year   


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39711 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):
Does anyone here have any NEW updated pics of the first UA 787 other than the ones that show Obama touring on one?

I'll second that!! First ones for a US carrier sorta up there on the want to know for a 'few' folks.....


 


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11691 posts, RR: 33
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39652 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 2):

Does anyone here have any NEW updated pics of the first UA 787 other than the ones that show Obama touring on one?

LN53 was spotted at the fuel dock: http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/7635119938/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Next stop is the paint shop I guess.

In other news: LN49 is back in full Ethiopian livery: http://lockerz.com/s/228210449



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39487 times:

Now that AM and Boeing have unveiled the purchase of 10 Dreamliners, several articles mention that the company has already secured 9 788 orders and leases. As far as I know, only 7 planes have been announced and the lease planes coming from ILFC.

Recently Air Seychelles cancelled LN 35307 and LN 35309, also from ILFC.

Do you believe these LNs have been reassigned to AM?


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 39363 times:

12 delivered so far and if looking at Uresh layout I count 12 light green coloured frames, frames that have passed production or rework. That would make 24. Add another 11 for the remaining year it is at 35 frames.

User currently offlineb78710 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 38943 times:

When will the first -9 be flown/built?

User currently offlinedynamicsguy From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 873 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 38896 times:

Quoting WarpSpeed (Reply 10):
-Delivery guidance for the 787 remains at 35-42 frames for 2012

Was that the actual guidance, or was it still 70-85 787s and 747-8s with roughly half of each?


User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 38846 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 16):
Add another 11 for the remaining year it is at 35 frames.

That is looking at deliveries from a production standpoint. If there is one interesting insight I gleaned from today's earnings call (and the AI saga) it is that the customers ultimately pace deliveries.

Boeing can build a complete 787, but if the end-user is not prepared to (or can't) take delivery, then there will be no fly-away. Seems counter-intuitive after years of delays and with such a huge backlog, but Boeing Mgt said today that low deliveries since May were at the request of customers.

Now, this may be nuanced language to pin delivery delays on customers not willing to take frames as they demanded software updates, Package B Trents or because of the gear-box issue, but nonetheless, the customer had the final say-so. Financing and operational preparedness on the customer side can also factor into deliveries timing. Having witnessed so many delays, airlines may not be in a position to earnestly prepare for a delivery until it is absolutely certain to occur.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineWarpSpeed From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 38819 times:

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 18):
Was that the actual guidance, or was it still 70-85 787s and 747-8s with roughly half of each?

I heard the 35-42 787 frames to be delivered in the context of an answer to an analyst question.



DaHjaj jaj QaQ Daghajjaj !!!!
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5762 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 38794 times:

I got a new post up reviewing today's news about the 787.


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3947 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 38700 times:

Some August delivery info :

JA803A ZA100 34485/7 2nd week.
JA813A ZA118 34521/67 5th week.
JA814A ZA119 34493/69 5th week.
ET-AOQ ZA262 34745/49 4th week.
JA828J ZA182 34838/70 5th week.
A7-BCB ZA461 38320/58 3rd week.
CC-BBA ZA538 38472/68 5th week.

  


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 38634 times:

hopefully they have started making some progress on the 787-9 ? , With first hand over to NZ in early June 2014,

Good news overall on the 787 program, let's keep it going   !



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 38613 times:
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Quoting RobK (Reply 22):
CC-BBA ZA538 38472/68 5th week.

Great to hear that CC-BBA will join LAN's fleet late next month as expected!


25 NYC777 : Great stuff, thanks Rob. Interesting that JA815A (LN 66) was out before many of the airplanes you listed but is not listed to be delivered in August.
26 RobK : Again, take it more as a guide than fact. That *is* the current plan but JA803A has missed yet another planned B1 as has the LAN which was due to fly
27 sunrisevalley : Too bad nobody asked the question if they were on track to meet the 787 OEW goal at LN90. For those of you who watch this scene closely, was the 50:50
28 Dan23 : With 12 deliveries so far that leaves ~24 to meet guidance and therefore 12:12 between FAL:EMC if there was a 50/50 split. From RobK's list above ther
29 NYC777 : Need to keep hope alive.
30 NYC777 : It's 11 deliveries so far.
31 Post contains images RobK : Fresh info received for this one, now no B1 date set at all - just a blank space - so Aug 8 delivery unlikely. Seems to be broken this one.
32 PHX787 : Still no info on the AI stuff huh. August looks to be a good month for the 787
33 RobK : All show blank delivery dates, presumably as they're waiting for India to pull their fingers out of their arses.
34 aklrno : Somewhere I recently saw an article that said the first -9 would be LN126. If that fits in with the current rate thats about 56 aircraft away, about
35 flightsimer : IIRC, the first 787-9 should be entering FAL Q4 12 as parts of the first -9 are already in production. I asked this in either the 4th or 5th thread a
36 Someone83 : Didn't the first aircraft of the line that didn't have to go through EMC have 300 unfinished jobs? According to Boeing/Allthings787 LN70 had 160 unfin
37 mattcawby : That was on June 4, it hasn't flown yet so they must be 300 big jobs.
38 Post contains images aeroblogger : Delivery date cannot be confirmed until CCEA approval is officially completed. I'm hoping that it's just a formality (and it is likely to be consider
39 tarheelwings : Isn't it 12? LN41 1/12/2012 LN9 1/14/2012 LN33 3/25/2012 LN23 3/25/2012 LN40 3/29/2012 LN42 4/14/2012 LN37 4/25/2012 LN38 4/25/2012 LN47 6/20/2012 LN
40 NYC777 : I stand corrected, it is 12. I was thinking about 1st half deliveries for some reason. That was 11.
41 WarpSpeed : Further to your point, I've read that it is normal for a frame to leave the FAL with unfinished jobs; even in mature programs. As such, with "only" 1
42 Post contains images brindabella : Great to see them rolling out at last, however: Help! I look at those LNs & fail to detect any pattern at all! Can anybody enlighten me, just a li
43 Post contains images Stitch : Yes. Later-build (higher LN number) 787s take less time to be brought to "production standard" with all the necessary changes incorporated so Boeing
44 NYC777 : Matt Cawby reports that ZA100 to have its B-1 flight on 7/27 at 1500Z. That's 7AM local time.
45 United787 : Eighteen minutes ago and no sign on FlightAware...
46 Post contains links NYC777 : ZA100 (JA803a) to fly at about 10AM Seattle time http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...0/history/20120727/1700Z/KPAE/KMWH First 787 B-1 flight in alm
47 NYC777 : ZA100 is up in the air. Hopefully we'll start seeing the other 87s at Everett at Charleston flying within the next one week.[Edited 2012-07-27 12:26:1
48 WarpSpeed : She may have been reworked from nose to tail and weighted down with extra fasteners, but I hope the first flight of ZA100 represents a milestone in g
49 MarSciGuy : What exactly does B-1 mean?
50 Stitch : IThe first flight with Boeing pilots. A C-1 flight is the first with the customer's pilots.
51 WarpSpeed : The B1 flight for ZA100 may have been less than stellar. Matt Cawby notes on his blog that it diverted back to KPAE about an hour into the flight and
52 PHX787 : And where is ZA100 being delivered to?
53 MEA-707 : It is to become JA803A for ANA. It's the 7th built 787 and the oldest (lowest line number (LN) ) aircraft which hasn't flown so far, so it had no dou
54 sweair : LN7 has been in storage for about 3 years and a lot of components have changed in those 3 years, it must be the worst to rework, many issues to solve.
55 par13del : Obviously a lot of work is required for LN7 and LN10 to 36, is this an indicator that the supply is having difficulty keeping up so Boeing is putting
56 Stitch : The trend seems to imply Boeing is concentrating on the later builds than the early ones.
57 kanban : Some work may be in areas where access is limited so putting on additional mechanics won't produce any significant improvement.
58 sweair : There seems to be a sharp line at LN20 for rework, a few JAL birds from the LN20 bunch and most reworked frames are above LN30. LN63 and 64 should mos
59 Revelation : Still, the cost of having ~25 airframes sitting around KPAE not producing any revenue month after month must be massive. It seems like a no-win situa
60 Post contains images brindabella : My visualisation too - but I can also visualise the Financial Controller going "apesh1t" as everyone kicks back when the line is churning out nicely
61 sphealey : I'd say the fundamental insight is that we aren't in the 1950s anymore. We have relational databases and a vast variety of applications to access the
62 par13del : Agree in both cases, I just asked the question because of the current number of locations presently doing work and re-work and wondered whether the p
63 Revelation : Last fall there were a bunch of AI frames parked out by the Museum where you queue for the factory tour. I suppose paving contractors in the KPAE are
64 Stitch : It's standard practice for aerospace. Airbus' decision to slow initial A350 production is to prevent travel work from gumming up the works (as it did
65 bellancacf : What amazes me is that information just does not seep out around the edges of Boeing (or Airbus, either, for that matter). We watch the frames move ar
66 Post contains links flood : Interesting little mishap at Charleston involving a GE engine: "Debris from a brand new Boeing 787 Dreamliner’s engine fell onto the runway and into
67 hiflyer : Think this must be an Air India bird if built charleston.....anyone know for sure? Dang...last week it was RR having issues and now a ge....it's never
68 KarelXWB : It was the second Charleston built plane (LN54 / ZA238).
69 Post contains links and images lightsaber : Not if their engines keep starting brush fires. The jet involved in the episode is due to go to Air India and is the first "significant issue" with G
70 United787 : 15 Delivered to Date L/N 8 - JA801A - 9/25/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 24 - JA802A - 10/13/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 31 - JA805A - 12/30/2011 - NH (ANA) L/N 41 - JA
71 WarpSpeed : ...especially by spewing hot metal parts! Hard to imagine this evidencing anything systemic given the testing and operational history of the GEnx eng
72 NYC777 : Don't think that's in teh cards. Boeign is still flying GEnx powered planes as is JAL. I've updated my production and disposition list on my blog. In
73 AirframeAS : I think with us using the sCO format for registrations gives us better flexibility for future registrations. I think the UA designator is going to be
74 Post contains images brindabella : Loved it! Tanks, Saberman. Bill
75 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Getting closer to seeing those AI '87s delivered. I wonder if the power failures in India will have an impact on the timing of the "final approval." h
76 Post contains images Stitch : I expect the power failure of the GEnx on one of AI's birds would have more of an impact.
77 Post contains images WarpSpeed : ...but, it can get airborne on one engine, right? [Edited 2012-08-01 12:31:52]
78 Post contains images KELPkid : Not Legally But it *could* do it, yes...
79 Post contains images aeroblogger : AI deliveries put on hold until the cause of the incident in CHS the other day is determined, and the issues are rectified. AI engineering is concerne
80 Dan23 : Just another poor excuse for an additional delay from AI. Trying to shift part of the blame for the current delay and probably some of the mounting co
81 SCL767 : LAN's first B-787 CC-BBA is set to make its first flight today!
82 mattcawby : They just did a taxi test, no flight today.
83 SCL767 : When can we expect the first flight?
84 aeroblogger : AI's Engineering department has made this decision, not MoCA/management (who are responsible for the original delay). They feel that the info availab
85 Dan23 : Have JAL made any public comment on the incident as yet?
86 aeroblogger : Not that I know of, but I'm hoping they will make one soon... That would shed some light on the situation.[Edited 2012-08-02 18:30:16]
87 United787 : That is an exciting development as that would the first of the latest generation of 787s to make the first flight, the generation that are coming out
88 mattcawby : The runway is closed for construction work until Monday, August 6. They might be able to get a PPR though, just enough time to takeoff and land.
89 Post contains images SCL767 : Thanks. Hopefully on Monday she'll be airborne.
90 Post contains links KarelXWB : It seems like VT-ANC / LN28 was pulled out of storage. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernieleighton/7702170096/
91 sweair : They wouldn't put resources on AIs frames if the deal wasn't coming through. Genx frames are flying still, on wednesday LN5 and Qatars frames were fl
92 Post contains links and images SCL767 : Here is a photo of CC-BBA performing a high-speed taxi test at KPAE yesterday: View Large View MediumPhoto © A. Kwanten
93 Post contains images RobK : JA803A now slipped to 3rd week. JA813A brought forward to 4th week. Rest are holding. Air India ...
94 tdscanuck : We're talking about India. There is zero chance that an engineering decision of that type would get all the way up the chain and over to Boeing witho
95 Post contains images par13del : I was going to make a similar comment, to some degree I was hoping they did have the authority, that way if no "system design" problem is found, the
96 Post contains links WarpSpeed : http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2012/08/a...r-india-to-be-allowed-to-take.html The day we've all been waiting for...Uresh has updated his blog to reflect G
97 Post contains images Stitch : At this rate, Kingfisher will take delivery of their A350-800s before Air India does their 787-8s.
98 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Here's another story with more detail and color on the GoI approval and the delivery of AI's 787s. http://www.postandcourier.com/articl...-ntsb-delive
99 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : Now that's the best looking 787 I've seen so far..! When can we expect it to be at SCL ?!
100 SCL767 : LAN expects to incorporate the first 787 into its fleet in late August-early September.
101 NYC777 : Ethiopian's first '87 is to deliver next week around 8/14. They may actually be the third airline to take delivery before AI so it'll be a horse race
102 Post contains links Stitch : AI could take first delivery this week - http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...e-to-take-delivery-of-787s-375111/
103 Post contains images KELPkid : How is the GE engine issue playing into the AI delivery schedule? Does this mean that the problem has been root caused, and that AI engineering is ass
104 Stitch : AI Engineering was said to want to wait on delivery until a cause for the engine failure was done, but it appears AI management is moving forward to
105 Post contains links SCL767 : LAN's first B-787 CC-BBA is currently airborne: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE536
106 WarpSpeed : I hope you are right, but AI must (1) conduct its C flights and (2) pay for the planes. With respect to (2), the Post and Courier notes that AI is wo
107 dynamicsguy : They have done this for at least 2 of their airplanes. They were ready to deliver when the compensation issue blew up.
108 NYC777 : Right.
109 afriwing : I have just received an email from ET saying that they will be the first airline outside of Japan to receive and operate the B787. At first read I th
110 Post contains links 817Dreamliiner : Matt Cawby has posted a HD video of CC-BBA's first flight: http://kpae.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/paine-field-august-6.html
111 Post contains images SCL767 : Absolutely spectacular video! Very excited and thrilled that LAN's first 787 has made her first flight! Looking forward to flying on CC-BBA next mont
112 PHX787 : About dang time, but I'll believe it when I see it land on the subcontinent. Quick aviation financing question: when an airplane takes delivery of an
113 tdscanuck : Typically yes. Balance is due at delivery. If the airplane is financed (which most are) the bank transfers the money by wire to the OEM. Payments and
114 Ruscoe : Nice. Video of LAN takeoff. Did you notice the behavior of the high speed inboard aileron? It is down during initial part of run, then it is up before
115 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : Not to mention that LAN will become the very first airline from the Americas to operate the Boeing 787 !
116 dynamicsguy : Flaperon, not aileron. To prevent damage to the actuators and the flaperon itself due to thrust impingement from the engine the actuators are byassed
117 Post contains links hiflyer : ET employees at IAD confirm that the 787 will come to IAD straight from the factory and go directly into service the next day on the 16th nonstop to A
118 United787 : That is quite amazing when you compare that to what NH did with their first 787s and what UA plans to do... that seems a little aggressive to me but
119 col : Congrats to ET, shows confidence for both airline and manufacturer.
120 Ruscoe : Thanks dynamicsguy Ruscoe
121 lightsaber : Wow... Talk about testing those in service dispatch rates from day 1! Do they at least have a reasonable downtime at IAD every flight? Good to see mo
122 Post contains links afriwing : Congrats to ET, certainly a welcomed first for Africa. If I read this correctly, it is only the inaugural flight to ADD, but not commencing regular s
123 Post contains images SCL767 : Indeed, LAN may also be the first carrier to operate the 787 into LAX!
124 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Interesting note: AI has funds to pay for its first two 787's but does not yet have financing in place for the other four slated for delivery this yea
125 Stitch : AI issued an RFP for Long Term Loan Funds back on 15 July 2011 for their first 7 787s and 2 spare GEnx engines and have evidently been having a hard
126 bestwestern : If BA cancelled their funds search, AI could be looking for a while. Would you like your bank to lend to AI - that paragon of efficiency and profitab
127 WarpSpeed : That they have been having a hard time with long term financing is even more odd as, presumably, such loans would benefit from/be backed by guarantee
128 Stitch : The US Ex-Im bank has committed to USD 1.3 billion for Air India aircraft purchases, including the 787s, with another USD2.1 billion in preliminary c
129 WarpSpeed : And, again, these are loan guarantees (the commitments to which are laced with politics) not direct financing. Seems very odd that AI is having troub
130 Revelation : I don't find it odd in the context of how tortuous this entire process of getting AI and it's GOI backers to accept airplanes they ordered years ago
131 Stitch : Air India wants to sell and lease them all back, so maybe they can't find banks willing to enter into the deal over worries AI might default on the p
132 WarpSpeed : Agreed. By saying "odd", I'm noting that it is "a sad state of affairs" at AI (no surprise there). In doing some background reading on the U.S. trade
133 sunrisevalley : Do I assume that this is only a part of the total funds needed and that AI are having trouble lining up lenders for the balance . Also that GOI is th
134 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Or, more likely, repossessing them? Given AI is government owned, taking a frame back would not be a simple matter. All told, the 787 has proven itse
135 WarpSpeed : These are guarantees, not direct loans, AI must still obtain direct financing for the purchase. In theory, they can use the Ex-Im guarantees as a way
136 Post contains images lightsaber : Very interesting find! Large last minute loans pay full retail... We need a popcorn icon on A.net! AI and the 787 has been too interesting. And the G
137 RobK : ZA100 JA803A broken. Just heard him on HF wanting immediate diversion back to PAE due to release/relief valve malfunction. Couldn't make out whether h
138 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Certainly diverted back to KPAE. Check out the flight profile. Quick descent to 10,000 feet. http://nl.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE100
139 aeroblogger : While the engineering department surely did need management support (unless those reso AI will have no problems getting the money from SBI or another
140 pnwtraveler : A neighbour is an insurance executive with an internation company that has large transportation companies in its portfolio. He took vacation to escape
141 aircellist : I second that.
142 Stitch : Well we do seem to be entering another Order Boom. The last one before the GFC saw lease rates and average values for new airframes launched into the
143 Post contains links WarpSpeed : Fixed? http://nl.flightaware.com/live/fligh...0/history/20120811/1930Z/KPAE/KMWH
144 bestwestern : Well run finance department anticipating the future cash needs. Air India is a joke. How could you re-market a four year old AI 787 at anything like
145 Post contains links SCL767 : According to LATAM Airlines Group, LAN will now receive three B-787s this year. Also, according to http://nyc787.blogspot.com/ LN80 (ZA538) to LAN wil
146 Post contains links SCL767 : It was a typo, http://nyc787.blogspot.com/ has corrected the engine type for LN80 (ZA538) for LAN to the RR Trent 1000.
147 Post contains images RobK : Latest delivery plan : ET-AOQ 14 Aug JA803A 20 Aug A7-BCB 22 Aug CC-BBA 27 Aug JA814A 28 Aug JA813A 30 Aug JA828J 30 Aug Air India... Quick look at Se
148 ER757 : Strange - nothing between Aug 30 and Sept 18th?
149 Rheinbote : After GFC, investors seem to be desperately looking for investment opportunities. Dotcom is dead, ships are dead, real estate is dead, government bon
150 Stitch : As I believe tdscanuck noted in another thread, Boeing is contractually required to deliver during a month, not a week or day. As such, Boeing often
151 Post contains images Rheinbote : Handover period between the old and new chief of sales at Boeing...
152 Post contains links SCL767 : Fantastic news! It will also be a very significant day for LAN! Here are some really great photos of CC-BBA: http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/77296
153 Revelation : Great shots, but even though many seem to love the livery, I don't. I'm not a fan of the billboard letters and IMHO it's too white up front and too d
154 Stitch : LAN was #3 on my "Livery List" behind Aeroflot and Thai Airways International, but now that TG has gone with a lame new shade of purple, LA moves up t
155 Revelation : Excellent choices.
156 ual747-600 : Maybe LAN will have a triple delivery ceremony this month: 1 each 767, 777F and 787, That would be a great sight to see!! UAL747-600
157 RobK : Unfortunately not. CC-BDG due Aug 16, BDH Sep 26 and N776LA Sep 10.
158 SCL767 : Perhaps later this year there will be a triple delivery since LAN has 5 more B-767-316ERs, 1 more B-777F and 2 more B-787-800s being delivered this y
159 Post contains links KarelXWB : ET-AOQ C1 flight: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernieleighton/7760359204/
160 NYC777 : Thanks Rob, this is great. Now if AI can get their s**t together then the next couple of months would be huge for the 787 barring any issues.
161 NYC777 : I belive that customers also have a say on the delivery date/time frame.
162 tdscanuck : They have preferences and, obviously, the OEM's do their best to accommodate all requests. But, unless you fall out of the contracted month, no penal
163 kanban : Tom's correct.. Boeing will however turn cartwheels to meet a auspicious date or something where there was a big PR effort. (they do it by being read
164 Post contains links BlueSky1976 : Polish media is reporting that the first 787 for LO will arrive at Warsaw on the 15th of November, indicating that delivery is curently scheduled for
165 Post contains images RobK : One wonders how long it will be til the AI 787s get N-numbers and head to Arizona..
166 PHX787 : That would be a sad outcome but I highly doubt they'd get stored for long. I could see them getting overhauled-again-and destined for NH or something
167 par13del : Boeing will eventually have to see whether having them in Washngton is affecting the preparation, testing and delivery of frames that others are wait
168 mham001 : I thought they were in Charleston?
169 Stitch : The ones ready for delivery are in CHS. AI has additional frames at PAE.
170 NYC777 : I don't think Boeing has to worry about getting AI planes delivered, butI think they're going to be very wary about selling to them in the future. AI
171 RobK : ZA118 is being reported elsewhere as JA816A and apparently confirmed from some comments made. Did anyone actually see this fly and have photo proof o
172 NYC777 : I don't think it's right. I've seen pictures (on Cawby's site) that shows JA813A and it has been confirmed to me that this airplane is LN 67/ZA118.[E
173 Post contains images RobK : There appears to be some merit in the report as I've just a reply from my source saying ZA118 has been very recently changed on one of the internal s
174 NYC777 : Well if true then they'll repaint it before delivery so we'll know for certain then.
175 Post contains images RobK : It should already be showing on the side unless if flew with a sticker temp N-reg. Calling Cawby!
176 NYC777 : From his most recent picture it looks as if it still showing JA813A but I can be wrong.
177 Post contains links KarelXWB : This flightline picture from August 9 is showing JA813A: http://paineairport.com/images/fl080912.jpg From left to right I read: JA803A, JA814A, JA813A
178 Post contains images RobK : Small correction here : var# is ZA263 not ZA264. Msn 34747 is okay.
179 NYC777 : What does Var stand for? Is it variation number?
180 RobK : Variable number. Some call it the block number/allocation.
181 NYC777 : thanks![Edited 2012-08-13 14:14:59]
182 RobK : Latest info now shows JA813A as being ZA510 40749/59. Data has only changed within past 3 days!
183 NYC777 : Ok, I'm going with your info. Thanks Rob!
184 Post contains links kanban : Ethiopia delivered today http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing...-ethiopian-airlines-203000494.html
185 PHX787 : Well that's good for them! Congrats Ethiopia! Weren't they immediately entering that into service from Washington?
186 aeroblogger : I'm hearing 2 deliveries for AI this Saturday... Can anyone confirm?
187 SonomaFlyer : I believe the plan is for the a/c to be on display tomorrow for dignitaries (i.e. the diplomatic crowd) and then fly its first revenue flight on Thur
188 Post contains images Stitch : Get them out before the bank cancels the check.
189 NYC777 : Hah, it might be too late if they're not delivered tomorrow. Boeing would have better luck reselling them to Air Zimbabwe.
190 PHX787 : I hope some spotters are on hand!
191 RobK : Not sure about 2 on Saturday, but 1 is now showing for delivery this Friday. Seen all this before though, I take it with a pinch of salt until I see
192 aeroblogger : Which one is showing for Friday? VT-ANH? VT-AND? I was under the impression both would be delivered at the same time..
193 PHX787 : About dang time! but again. Like we said previously, once they're en route for the subcontinent I'm not believing anything.
194 Post contains images flightsimer : I think the safest bet would be when they are on the ground in India.... I wouldn't put it past AI to turn around mid flight and return to Seattle de
195 United787 : 16 Delivered to Date L/N 8 - JA801A - 9/25/2011 - NH #1 L/N 24 - JA802A - 10/13/2011 - NH #2 L/N 31 - JA805A - 12/30/2011 - NH #3 L/N 41 - JA807A - 1/
196 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : Thanks for the compilation, United787. That will surely be a busy day for Boeing. Can't wait to see the first LAN 787 at SCL !
197 Post contains images SCL767 : Should be at SCL by the 29TH!
198 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : Yes, I'll be at SCL on that day !
199 Post contains images United787 : Hard to believe LA and QR will both get the first 787s on the same day! Unless... QR is going to announce they are joining OneWorld with a joint LA/Q
200 SCL767 : Everyone will be at SCL that day! It will be a very significant event for LAN since the 787 will become the backbone of LAN's long-haul fleet. This y
201 WarpSpeed : Dinesh Keskar, Boeing SVP of sales for AsPac and India has stated that AI will take the planes one at a time separated by 7-10 days so the delivery c
202 aeroblogger : Ok, got the update I was waiting for. The first aircraft will arrive on Saturday night/Sunday morning. It's not clear when the delivery will take plac
203 Post contains images PHX787 : ABOUT DANG TIME!
204 Post contains images aeroblogger : Speaking of time, it looks like the aircraft will arrive in darkness.. Sucks for DEL-based spotters
205 PHX787 : Maybe once it's parked someone can get a long-exposure of it
206 NYC777 : MI think the AI deliveries will be in this order: VT- AND VT-ANG VT-ANI
207 Post contains images Dan23 : It appears that AI got over any issue they had with the GEnX engines fairly quickly?
208 PHX787 : I don't know if a cause was quoted but I kept hearing it was a bird ingestion but my sources are incredibly bad (same sources that give me occasional
209 NYC777 : If I were you, I'd drop that source. It was not a bird ingestion. Fan shaft fractured. If it was a bird, they would have found remians and it would h
210 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : You have sources?? Since when? lol Great to finally see AI getting their 787's, its about time! Great to see ET getting their 787 as well, congrats t
211 dcaviation : Today Ethiopian received their first 787. Its in flight arriving at IAD 2pm.
212 NYC777 : They actually received it yesterday, they just flew it out today.
213 aeroblogger : ANG is a typo for ANH, right?
214 NYC777 : Yes I meant VT-ANH not ANG.
215 Post contains images PHX787 : Yeaaaah I'm going to drop that source He's been annoying the crap out of me for a while. So immediate EIS for their plane? Sounds good! Hope some spo
216 NYC777 : hEARING THAT LAN IS NOW GOING TO BE DELIVERED AROUND 8/31.
217 RobK : VT-ANH.
218 Post contains links KarelXWB : China Southern 787 LN/43 now outside in full livery. http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/7790931252/
219 aeroblogger : livery looks great!
220 Post contains images BEG2IAH : It's really nice to see all these beautiful birds fly out of their nest.
221 Stitch : Sharp-looking bird.
222 SCL767 : CC-BBA is expected to officially arrive at SCL on 01SEP and will be deployed on regional routes shortly thereafter before going long-haul.
223 Post contains images RobK : Still seems to be in a mess. ZA118 just got a selcal code check on HF using 813s combination. I understand it's pinging the hex code for 813 too...
224 Post contains images RAGAZZO777 : What ?! Do you know why the sudden change of date ?
225 SCL767 : Perhaps LAN is planning certain events pertaining to the arrival of CC-BBA at SCL. CC-BBA may also "visit" other South American cities during Septemb
226 NYC777 : I jsut put out a new post along with updated tables on my blog.
227 Ruscoe : What does that mean in laymans terms? thanks Ruscoe
228 Post contains images RobK : Very basically, the radios and FMC are configured for registration JA813A and it has flown twice as such. I did also receive info today from a PAE sp
229 aeroblogger : Another delay coming up for AI... More details as I get them.
230 Post contains images NYC777 : Will someone take this airline out to a pasture put a bullet in it and put it out of it misery, PLEASE!!!!!
231 Post contains images RobK : Would that have anything to do with what was presumably a customer flight on VT-ANH (BOE236) today? Maybe so AI could find something wrong with it to
232 aeroblogger : That's 1 of the 2 main possibilities, the other being the controversy over delivery crew... I'm pretty sure the money is together already... But find
233 kanban : are we making a mountain out of a molehill with this depth of pre delivery tracking... ? there may be reasons for it and there may be politics, or ju
234 Post contains links KarelXWB : Hainan Airlines LN73 (unpainted) visible on the 40-51 apron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/7793054326/in/photostream/lightbox/
235 SCL767 : Great to know that Hainan's first 787 has completed final assembly at KPAE. LN74 (CC-BBB) should follow in the coming weeks.
236 ba319-131 : - Great livery on this by CZ, well done! With airlines other than NH & JL starting to take delivery, it actually seems like the 787 program is fi
237 Post contains links and images 817Dreamliiner : Theres a photo of it in the database: View Large View MediumPhoto © KSK Really interesting livery. Well done CZ!
238 bestwestern : Will CZ be the first A380 and 787 operator?
239 ba319-131 : - Yes.
240 aeroblogger : AI deliveries might get pushed into early next month because of the current delay... So it'll become the 5th operator, after LA as well. One of the Mi
241 Post contains images petera380 : Maybe Boeing should now seek compensation from AI!!!!
242 aeroblogger : I think it's a great idea. Perhaps it would bring some of our bureaucrats into the real world.
243 Post contains images lightsaber : That it does! It it wasn't so sad, it would be even funnier. Please let us know. At this rate, they'll beat AI for EIS. Lightsaber
244 aeroblogger : According to Airliners-India, the ministry in question is the Ministry of Finance. I'm trying to independently verify right now... Not sure if there i
245 Hamlet69 : At this rate, ANZ (-9) will too! Hamlet69
246 817Dreamliiner : Again????? Geez, I wish they would just stop complaining and take the planes already! I thought they wanted them so badly?? You might be right![Edite
247 aeroblogger : Airline management wants the aircraft ASAP. The problem is political interference and an incredibly bureaucratic process means that management has ve
248 817Dreamliiner : And hence why ill never get into or along with anyone in politics. If theyre government keeps interfering they'll never get theyre 787s. The entire b
249 Post contains links NYC777 : ZA182 should be makig its first flight today in about an hour: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE182
250 WarpSpeed : Per your Production and Disposition chart, it joins a couple of other very late builds with B1 flights in August. A very good sign as it could indica
251 aeroblogger : I doubt it'll get delayed that badly. If the 777 deliveries were a good predictor, everyone will have their act together by November or so.
252 KDAYflyer : The never ending saga of 787 delays gets yet another footnote. Any more news on the gearbox issue?
253 NYC777 : Gear Box issue has been resolved, it's no longer an issue.
254 817Dreamliiner : Yea I know, I exaggerated that a bit. But hope they get delievered soon
255 SCL767 : LAN will be the 5th operator of the 787 and it looks like CZ may become the 6th operator...
256 Post contains images NYC777 : Another Air India 787 is outside on the flightline at CHS. I'm not sure which this is (could be either ZA238 or ZA239, the former had the engine issue
257 NYC777 : Is there anyone who will be able to confirm if Boeing and AI concluded the first 787 delivery tomorrow?
258 PHX787 : If so, can someone get to PAE and snap a photo of it on its way to India? Also can anyone get to wherever it's going in India so we can finally say i
259 Post contains links SA7700 : This thread has become quite long and will be locked for further contributions. Any posts added after the thread lock will be removed for housekeeping
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