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Latam And The Americas  
User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 871 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

This thread is to piggy back on this thread...

"Latam Plans To Open 4 New Destinations In Europe"

I wonder what are in the plans for LATAM in the Americas, especially in North America. I think TAM may go for ORD, SFO & IAD.

LIM-IAD (LP)
GRU-IAD (JJ)
GRU-ORD(JJ)
GRU-SFO(JJ)

But I think there will be room to develop more routes non U.S. Such as:

LIM -YYZ (LP)
GRU-YYZ (JJ)

What do you all think...?


AA will Rise Again!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3340 times:
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Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
GRU-SFO(JJ)

Flights to the U.S. West Coast will continue to be operated by LAN from SCL, LIM and soon BOG!

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
What do you all think...?

Look out for new routes from LATAM's new hub at BOG operated by LAN Colombia to the Caribbean, Central America and North America!
LAN Colombia plans to launch BOG-JFK and BOG-LAX in the very near-term.



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3246 times:
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Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):

LIM-IAD (LP)
GRU-IAD (JJ)
GRU-ORD(JJ)
GRU-SFO(JJ)

This is great if your airline is in the Star Alliance, these are all United hubs. LATAM will probably be a OW airline group unless Avianca, Copa and LAN are approved by the Colombian Government as Star airlines( likely to happen is zero).

TAM flying to California would be a very long flight from Sao Paulo, more likely they will feed those passengers to AA.


User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1105 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
TAM flying to California would be a very long flight from Sao Paulo, more likely they will feed those passengers to AA.

Certainly a long flight at 6,200NM, but the A330-200 has a 7,200NM range, so could be feasible. The 77W can certainly do the flight.

A GRU-LAX would appear to be the most logical route for LATAM, should JJ join oneworld.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

I have some information regarding the Caribbean but I cannot share the information as long as its not official. In any case I welcome LAN to the Caribbean.

A388


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3171 times:
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Quoting PDPsol (Reply 3):
Certainly a long flight at 6,200NM, but the A330-200 has a 7,200NM range, so could be feasible. The 77W can certainly do the flight.

A GRU-LAX would appear to be the most logical route for LATAM, should JJ join oneworld.

Yes its feasible and in the past Varig and VASP both flew it to LAX on their way to Japan. United flew it briefly to with a 747SP. IS it viable ? GRU to LAX alone probably doesn't have enough demand for a daily flight as an O & D destination. Unless TAM goes to Tokyo LAX probably won't happen. They are better of AA, BA and future Middle East OW members for Tokyo traffic.


User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1105 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
GRU to LAX alone probably doesn't have enough demand for a daily flight as an O & D destination.

Well, Sao Paulo is the largest metropolitan market [by population] in the western Hemisphere and Los Angeles is the second-largest metro in the US, so one can only imagine GRU-LAX should attract a tremendous amount of O&D traffic, even without a continuation to NRT, or wherever in Asia.

California is the largest and most important state in the US
Sao Paulo is the most important state in Brasil

If GRU-LAX is not a feasible route, then what two city pairs in the Americas are? These are both massive, massive markets. Should JJ join oneworld, both will be major hub cities for the alliance.

One can only imagine how important this route must be for LATAM and its US partner, AMR.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3128 times:
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Quoting PDPsol (Reply 3):
A GRU-LAX would appear to be the most logical route for LATAM, should JJ join oneworld.

LATAM routes GRU pax traveling to LAX via LIM. The LIM-LAX route will increase to 13x weekly in October. When LAN Colombia launches BOG-LAX, GRU pax will have a new option to connect to LAX via BOG. LATAM will soon operate the BOG-GRU route 13x weekly.

Quoting A388 (Reply 4):
In any case I welcome LAN to the Caribbean.

LAN has been serving the Caribbean for decades! LAN currently serves the Caribbean from SCL, EZE and LIM. LIM-PUJ operates daily and LAN recently launched LIM-HAV 3x weekly. LAN will soon operate SCL-PUJ-MIA 2x weekly; which will complement the weekly EZE-PUJ-MIA service.



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24634 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
But I think there will be room to develop more routes non U.S. Such as:

LIM -YYZ (LP)

They would have to renegotiate the bilateral. The current very old Canada-Peru bilateral only permits Peruvian carriers to operate to YUL and YVR, not YYZ. Only the Canadian-designated carrier can operate LIM-YYZ.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
LAN has been serving the Caribbean for decades! LAN currently serves the Caribbean from SCL, EZE and LIM. LIM-PUJ operates daily and LAN recently launched LIM-HAV 3x weekly. LAN will soon operate SCL-PUJ-MIA 2x weekly; which will complement the weekly EZE-PUJ-MIA service.

Yes I know that and I'm not talking about those routes.

A388


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3018 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 9):
Yes I know that and I'm not talking about those routes.

Perhaps you meant to say that you welcome back 4C to the Caribbean!



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
Perhaps you meant to say that you welcome back 4C to the Caribbean!

No, I don't.

A388


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2961 times:
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Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
No, I don't.

Well maybe you will soon!



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7558 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
I think TAM may go for ORD, SFO & IAD.

Well, San Francisco and Washington, DC are certainly important cities, but interestingly those cities' major airports are UA hubs. I doubt JJ will keep ties with UA after it effectively leaves Star Alliance, so I am not sure if we'd see both. Of the two, I would say IAD is more likely, considering that SFO will be better served by LA from SCL or LIM. With respect to ORD, it is an AA hub too, so that might work!

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
But I think there will be room to develop more routes non U.S. Such as:

LIM -YYZ (LP)
GRU-YYZ (JJ)

LA tried SCL-JFK-YYZ unsuccessfully. I don't think they will return any time soon. JJ might though.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 1):
BOG-LAX in the very near-term.

AV has struggled when it operated that route. I am not very optimistic.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
ATAM will probably be a OW airline group unless Avianca, Copa and LAN are approved by the Colombian Government as Star airlines( likely to happen is zero).

No, no. LAN Colombia, as a member of LAN Group, is not joining Star at all. The LAN carriers will all be oneworld.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
TAM flying to California would be a very long flight from Sao Paulo, more likely they will feed those passengers to AA.

Where? MIA is an awkward connecting point. DFW is a bit better, but not optimal.

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 3):
A GRU-LAX would appear to be the most logical route for LATAM, should JJ join oneworld.

Anyone knows how KE is doing on LAX-GRU?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2854 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 1):
BOG-LAX in the very near-term.

AV has struggled when it operated that route. I am not very optimistic.

It's very likely that LA will launch BOG-LAX 3x weekly (B763) by the end of this year. The service could complement LAN Cargo's affiliate MAS Air's thrice weekly service on the BOG-LAX route. LAN will begin to transfer new B-767-316ERs over to its Colombian affiliate soon.



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9689 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 12):
Well maybe you will soon!

Maybe, just maybe.


Talking about 4C, see my first photo of their 73G in BOG:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Roger Cannegieter - Curacao Aviation Photography




A388


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2722 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 13):
TAM flying to California would be a very long flight from Sao Paulo, more likely they will feed those passengers to AA.

Where? MIA is an awkward connecting point. DFW is a bit better, but not optimal.

Why is Miami a awkward connecting point ? From Latin America its the biggest.

Miami would be the most obvious place since TAM flies double daily to MIA from GRU. TAM to DFW could happen but not likely.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
Why is Miami a awkward connecting point ? From Latin America its the biggest.

Miami would be the most obvious place since TAM flies double daily to MIA from GRU.

And even more passengers from South America will be flying into MIA for the Northern Winter season; especially since TAM will replace the A332s on the GRU-MIA route with B77Ws. Plus, LAN will increase flights from SCL and LIM into MIA. LATAM operates a major focus city at MIA and for the NW season, LATAM will operate close to 100 weekly passenger flights into MIA!



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7558 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2500 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
Why is Miami a awkward connecting point ? From Latin America its the biggest.

Miami would be the most obvious place since TAM flies double daily to MIA from GRU. TAM to DFW could happen but not likely.

South America-MIA-LAX is somewhat of a detour. From GRU it is a few hundred extra miles. From SCL it is almost 1,000 extra miles.

Funneling pax originating in South America bound to LAX (or vice versa) via MIA is not efficient time-wise. PTY, BOG and MEX are much better connecting points for people flying between LAX and GRU for example.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2483 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
PTY, BOG and MEX are much better connecting points for people flying between LAX and GRU for example.

What about connecting via LIM for passengers flying between GRU and LAX?



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2312 times:
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LAN will boost flights to North America starting in October:

In October, the LIM-SFO route will increase to 5x weekly (B763), the LIM-LAX route will increase to 13x weekly (B763) year-round, the LIM-MIA route will increase to 17x weekly (B763) year-round, the LIM-JFK route will increase to 11x weekly (B763) year-round, and the GYE-JFK route will increase to 9x weekly (B763). In December, the GYE-JFK route will further increase to 11x weekly (B763) year-round.

Also in December, the SCL-LAX route will operate 3x weekly (B763) through March, 2013. During January and February, the SCL-PUJ-MIA route will increase to 3x weekly (B763) and the SCL-MIA route will operate up to 18x weekly non-stop (B763). Also, during January and February, LAN will operate seasonal flights between SCL and MCO on the weekends, (B763).

Source: amadeus.net



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2281 times:
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Quoting EddieDude (Reply 18):
Funneling pax originating in South America bound to LAX (or vice versa) via MIA is not efficient time-wise. PTY, BOG and MEX are much better connecting points for people flying between LAX and GRU for example

No hub is perfectly located for a connection. But if I am going to miss my connection between two cities so far apart I would rather be stuck In Miami then Mexico City, Panama or the worst BOG.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8717 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2255 times:
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Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
No hub is perfectly located for a connection. But if I am going to miss my connection between two cities so far apart I would rather be stuck In Miami then Mexico City, Panama or the worst BOG.

Currently, BOG doesn't even have any non-stop flights to the U.S. West Coast. Also, many pax arriving into MIA during the early morning from certain South American destinations DO connect onto AA's first MIA-LAX flight; which is operated with the B772. In fact, AA deploys the B772 2x daily on the MIA-LAX route.



SCL-EZE on CC-BBF!
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7558 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 21):
if I am going to miss my connection between two cities so far apart I would rather be stuck In Miami then Mexico City, Panama or the worst BOG.

If that is the driver for flying GRU-MIA-LAX, why not catch KE's nonstop service instead and forget about potential misconnections?



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 634 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Strong rumors point to LAN starting a Central American hub in the future at GUA. The time frame was not given to me, but LAN representatives have visited the airport numerous times. GUA is almost empty during most of the day with maybe 6-7 gates being occupied on average. with capacity to handle 22 aircraft simultaneously, and an excellent geographical position (leaving aside its altitude), the room for growth is there.

Give that they are focusing on LAN Colombia and in the middle of a merger, I doubt it will happen in the near future. But I do think it will happen in the next 10 year or so.

Regards, Avi8



avi8
25 jfk777 : Korean is an excellent way for GRU to LAX travel, as its really for Brazilians and Koreans going to Asia the fares from GRU to LAX are probably cheap
26 Post contains links SCL767 : A hub at GUA will not be as lucrative to LATAM given the small size of that market. LAN is focused on increasing operations in the seven South Americ
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