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What's Wrong With This Runway?  
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24364 times:

Was just watching this video - what's wrong with the runway? It looks like a load of cracks have been filled in. Is that what is actually is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM00W...tgPyI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks  


The amazing tale of flight.
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24274 times:

It does just appear to be LOTS of cracks that have been repaired/filled in over time. I'd be curiouse to know just how old that runway is though.

FX1816


User currently offlinemacsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24205 times:
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Not sure where it is, but many of the old military runways in the US midwest built to train crews in WWII look like this. They are now sixty plus years old, but were build to last forever and are still in use. They just have a ton of cracks due to the cold winters that have been filled in over the decades.

[Edited 2012-07-25 14:05:17]


Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24103 times:

Quoting virginblue4 (Thread starter):
Was just watching this video - what's wrong with the runway? It looks like a load of cracks have been filled in. Is that what is actually is?

Yes, that's very common. Look at the following video of a First Air 737-200 (probably with gravel runway kit) landing and taking off at Norman Wells (YVQ), a small community (population about 800) in Canada's Northwest Territories. Note the thousands of filled cracks in the 6,000 ft. runway. With summer-winter temperature variations that can range from 30C to -50C, paved surfaces are very prone to cracking. That's why there are only very few airports with paved runways in Canada's far north and why elderly 737-200s, mostly combis with gravel-runway equipment, are still used by half a dozen operators serving that region. Nothing else today can do the same job.

Landing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbob_malone/5784228823/in/photostream/

Takeoff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbob_malone/5774027457/in/photostream/

[Edited 2012-07-25 14:17:08]

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24083 times:

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
Not sure where it is, but many of the old military runways in the US midwest built to train crews in WWII look like this. They are now sixty plus years old, but were build to last forever and are still in use. They just have a ton of cracks due to the cold winters that have been filled in over the decades.

Your description here is pretty much an exact match for this airport's history. It is Strother Field (WLD/KWLD)serving Winfield, KS and Arkansas City, KS, and was formerly Strother Army Airfield during the 1940s.


User currently offlinemacsog6 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 23987 times:
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Quoting steex (Reply 4):
Your description here is pretty much an exact match for this airport's history. It is Strother Field (WLD/KWLD)serving Winfield, KS and Arkansas City, KS, and was formerly Strother Army Airfield during the 1940s.

Seeing as I first learned to fly in Wichita, I thought it looked familiar. Probably have fifty touch-and-goes there from way back when.



Sixty Plus Years of Flying! "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Saint Ex
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 23604 times:

Thank you everyone for the replies and interesting information  


The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlinebeau222 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 21776 times:

New meaning to Raised and Grooved.

User currently offlineAA757MIA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 20916 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
Yes, that's very common.

It is, many roads look like that around here in CO and WY.


User currently offlineBthebest From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 18878 times:

Am i right in thinking it's a gyrocopter that the video's taken from?

User currently offlinecptspeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17306 times:

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 9):
Am i right in thinking it's a gyrocopter that the video's taken from?

Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro  



...and don't call me Shirley!!
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 977 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 17001 times:

Quoting cptspeaking (Reply 10):
Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro  

There's another YouTube video, "Chris Swam Takeoff" that answers the question. Indeed, it's a glider (take a look).



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User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 834 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16638 times:

Its a common sight at many small airports in colder climates and very hot climates. Its a result of heating and cooling of the surface eventually leads to cracking. While larger airports can afford more crack resistant surfaces, many of these smaller airports cannot, so a result is more patched cracks. Take a look a google earth around the midwest and northeast and you will see many of the airports in the countryside are very heavily patched.


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4414 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

There is nothing wrong with this runway unless you try to land on it with an A380, than it is too short.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineyycspotter From Canada, joined Jul 2012, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12833 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
That's why there are only very few airports with paved runways in Canada's far north and why elderly 737-200s, mostly combis with gravel-runway equipment, are still used by half a dozen operators serving that region. Nothing else today can do the same job.

Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities? I can't find anything anywhere. If there were more modern options, the airlines of north Canada would probably use them! I know that 4N and Canadian North operate 737 classic aircraft, but they operate strictly from paved runways (ie. YYC, YVR, YEG, YXY)



I
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1406 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12380 times:

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

727


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1763 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12158 times:

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

I believe the majority of Russian birds are designed with the ability to operate from gravel given the prevalence of unpaved airfields in remote areas of Russia.


User currently offlinesaafnav From South Africa, joined Mar 2010, 287 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11641 times:

Quoting cptspeaking (Reply 10):

Looks like a glider - no engine noise, and there's somebody waiting to drag it off the runway at the end of the video. Also, you can tell there are points when the wingtips drag, which wouldn't be good in a gyro

Also, the beep/whine of the variometer gives it away.

Erich



On-board Direction Consultant
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6947 times:

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
I know that 4N and Canadian North operate 737 classic aircraft, but they operate strictly from paved runways (ie. YYC, YVR, YEG, YXY)

Canadian North still operates quite a few charter flights with gravel kit-equipped 732 combis to remote mine sites with gravel strips. Example below, departing from the diamond mine at Snap Lake, about 150 miles northeast of Yellowknife.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jason Pineau Photography



They also still operate scheduled flights to at least 2 airports with gravel runways -- Cambridge Bay (YCB) and Kugluktuk (YCO). Video of a Canadian North 732C landing on the 5,076 ft. gravel runway at Cambridge Bay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-8OIEPB9ZE

[Edited 2012-07-26 15:26:20]

User currently offlineyycspotter From Canada, joined Jul 2012, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):

I know that they operate 732's from gravel strips, But I am talking about the 733/734/735...

too bad airbuses dont have gravel kits avaliable...



I
User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3671 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5825 times:

What exactly does a "gravel kit" consist of?


I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 670 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5428 times:

I would think the lack of demand and engine ground clearance kept any of the CFM powered 737's from having gravel kits.


http://www.b737.org.uk/unpavedstripkit.htm


User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2187 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

Lockheed L-188 Electra.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25999 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4542 times:

Quoting threepoint (Reply 22):
Quoting yycspotter (Reply 14):
Other than the 732, do any other planes of the same size have gravel capabilities?

Lockheed L-188 Electra.

And of course many others if you include propeller types. For example, ATR-42s and Dash 8s have been using gravel runways in Canada for years.

The only L-188s in Canada are freighters or water bombers.


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