LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 27312 posts, RR: 50 Posted (3 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 17082 times:
While EADS is sticking to its 30-delivery target for 2012, CEO Tom Enders says they do not expect to make similar number of deliveries in 2013 as customers are reluctant to take aircraft until a definitive wing repair solution is available in 2014.
He also cast doubt on the idea of Airbus securing 30 orders for the model this year, saying airlines are tempted to wait longer to see how the wing issue is resolved.
ebj1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15858 times:
"Enders said Airbus expected to have European safety authority approval for its proposed solution to the cracked rib feet or brackets inside the A380's wings within weeks."
If this is the case, why is it going to take a whole year before new orders might be expected. And the way the airlines are reacting, it appears the wing crack problem is a bigger matter than has been suggested in the past.
imiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 15108 times:
Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 3): why is it going to take a whole year before new orders might be expected.
For the same reason the A330 and 77W are still selling and the A350 and B787 aren't - delivery slots. Any airline ordering the A380 or the A350 and 787 today will have to wait at least five years before they can get their hands on them. Also, throw in the economic turmoil and the lack of financing and you'll find airlines are hesitant to tie in capital for deposits.
Even Boeing is finding it difficult to get new 777 sales:
thijs1984 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14296 times:
Quoting ebj1248650 (Reply 3): If this is the case, why is it going to take a whole year before new orders might be expected. And the way the airlines are reacting, it appears the wing crack problem is a bigger matter than has been suggested in the past
from the airlines point of view, it's better to wait till the problem is completly solved. You wont get any A380 earlier anyway. Why take a (small) gamble if you have the time enough to await the final solution.
frmrCapCadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1856 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13240 times:
Perhaps someone can summarize what a 380 taken today will experience in shutdowns for repairs before its first major overhaul. Is Airbus planning on doing the temporary repairs before delivery? And is Airbus likely to have a crew that can do the permanent repairs a lot quicker? Were they to have a specially trained and experienced crew how quickly might it be done? If permanent repairs were to take only a week, and that by appointment this could move to a non-issue.
Does an airline have to take a plane which has this much unplanned maintainance? Obviously if they need a 380 they will take it, but what if they are no unsure of the business case?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 14284 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12713 times:
Quoting Stitch (Reply 1): I'm a bit worried Airbus won't make 30 deliveries this year...
Ditto. And for 2013.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7): According to this story its takes 30,000 man hours (8-weeks) for the repair retrofit on existing frames.
Airbus says due to 10-month lead time to incorporate modifications into the production line, it will not be until early 2014 that deliveries have the corrected wing structure.
I wouldn't order an A380 and I think the type has amazing economics. Not until there is a fix and strong faith in delivery times. It is too much risk for an airline to order as far out as required now. Now when one is looking at a D-check of labor for the temporary fix and another for the permanent. Since the fix has to currently happen twice, the downtime alone gets expensive.
Sheridan125 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12655 times:
Perhaps the lack of new orders has nothing to do with wing problems. Maybe it is because no airline has yet made a profit out of A380 operations. Any news on whether A380 operations have been profitable would be welcome.
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4017 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12394 times:
I used to be upset that FedEx did not take delivery of their A380F order, but it looks like they dodge a bullet, but still I believe the A380 will become a success. It took the 747 until the late 80's to really become a success, and it first flight was in the late 60's.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11487 times:
I have a question. To complete the fix of the wing cost the frame 30,000 man hours or 8-weeks of downtime. Does Airbus provide the airlines replacement planes (I know it would not be an 380, but some mix of 330's or 340's) or does the airline just lose the profit of that plane. If so, will the airlines seek compensation for the problems? Thank you for any insight.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 9050 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10556 times:
Most airlines that intend to order the A380 have already and many have already placed second orders. Tbere are some that could order the Whale Jet like Turkish, Air India, SAA, JAL and ANA. Cathay Pacific seems to like the A350-1000 as its next flagship.
PlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 6295 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 days ago) and read 9645 times:
Quoting 747400sp (Reply 14): Well I bet Boeing, is having a feild day right now.
Had the 787 roll out gone smooth, perhaps. As it is, they are likely just thankful that it isn't their frame with this problem, and they also know that the future could bring something similar - or worse. If anything they are breathing a sigh of relief that the bullet wizzed past them this time.
Next Trip: SEA-ORD-DSM on United/OMA-DEN-SEA on Southwest
spink From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 319 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8971 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17): Most airlines that intend to order the A380 have already and many have already placed second orders. Tbere are some that could order the Whale Jet like Turkish, Air India, SAA, JAL and ANA. Cathay Pacific seems to like the A350-1000 as its next flagship.
Well, at this time, considering the issues, the current backlog and the production rates, unless you are absolutely slot limited, it probably makes more sense to wait for the 350-1000 and 777x. Realistically, you are going to have to wait 6 years and both the 350-1000 and the 8x/9x look to offer better economics and better flexibility.
XT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3509 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8944 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9): Now when one is looking at a D-check of labor for the temporary fix and another for the permanent. Since the fix has to currently happen twice, the downtime alone gets expensive.
Makes me wonder what EK will do with thier early frames. I wouldn't be suprised if other airlines are also worried about this as EK could put a world of hurt on the lease values if they decide to start leasing or selling frames as new ones come in. And the right time to do that would be as you say, When your already got the plane out of service for the permanent fix. So somewhere down the road, EK knows its going to have its planes out of service long enough to remove EK specific equipment and put them on the market. It doesn't have a choice about that time out of service and the costs.
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1958 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8821 times:
Quoting Sheridan125 (Reply 10): Maybe it is because no airline has yet made a profit out of A380 operations. Any news on whether A380 operations have been profitable would be welcome.
If I recall correctly, all A380 operators are reporting that the plane is making profits for them. New orders for the A380 were slow due to the banking crisis (difficult to get financing) and definitely the lack of slots and delivery certainty.
There's more than enough stuff out on the net about the A380 performing good, there are no doubts on that front.
art From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8686 times:
Does the A380 hold the record for delays in getting to the stage of production free from significant faults requiring rectification? It's nearly 5 years since the first was delivered and all aircraft manufactured so far have had faults requiring major fixes (rewiring first 25 or so + recently identified wing problem). Roll on 2014 when A380's will no longer require rework before or after delivery (one hopes).
I wonder when production will reach the originally planned 40 per annum.