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Will MIA-LIS Ever Go Daily?  
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

Miami-Lisbon has been upgraded to 5xweekly for the summer months which shows that the flight is performing well. I am assuming that the yields on this flight are good due to the Espirito Santo corporate traffic. With all this considered can we expect this route to go daily?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineilari From Finland, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

I would think that next summer they might try daily. If that goes well they could also increase winter frequency.

User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting miaintl (Thread starter):
With all this considered can we expect this route to go daily?

The route is 5xWeekly during Summer and only 3xWeekly during the Winter, so i would say no chance!
TP concentrates their long haul fleet to Brazil during the winter- Higher Demand
MIA probably will see an increase in frequencies when the A350's start to arrive as currently their long haul a/c is maxed out.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3482 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 2):

But is the route performing well according to what u know? Do u see it sticking around next summer because I'm opptimistic about this one.


User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
But is the route performing well according to what u know? Do u see it sticking around next summer because I'm opptimistic about this one.

I have no idea how the route is performing, very good load factors year-round, i read, but that's not a good indication of yields, as they regularly advertise very cheap fares to MIA from the UK.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 4):

LX, LH and AF all promote cheap fares from MIA but they are all high yielding from MIA. So I don't think that low fares means low yields because don't forget that many Portuguese corporations have headquarters and operations in South Florida. Also when KL flew to MIA they had very expensive fares but that route was anything but high yielding.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

I don't see this going daily any time soon for the simple fact that TP has no equipment to spare. And with the government trying to privatize the airline I also don't see them acquiring any more long haul planes.

User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3085 times:

TP also changed its schedule time-wise about two months ago. MIA-LIS used to leave at 11:50 pm instead of the current 4:45pm and the return leaving from LIS used to be 4:45pm but is now 10:00 am.

I liked the former late in the day schedule, as now to connect in LIS back to MIA, the flights leave at 6:15 am from FCO, for example, and to make such an early flight is really difficult. Mass transit or hotel shuttle buses generally aren't running yet and one has to rely on a taxi showing up on time no later than 4:30 am. When I flew the flights last Sept/Oct, the flights to/from MIA were no more than 50% full. Flights to/from Rome were 100% full.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 5):
LX, LH and AF all promote cheap fares from MIA but they are all high yielding from MIA

You keep on spouting these kinds of statements about high yielding routes, and so I wonder what basis you use for this. While (revenue) load factors are relatively easy to obtain, yield information is kept very proprietary by most if not all airlines, so I wonder where you are coming from with this. Yield analysis is also much more complicated than you make it seem and many variable are at play.

I tend to believe that you just assume and with regard to LX, LH and AF, the facts seem to fly in the face of what you are stating. While it is widely believed that MIA is one of LX's strongest transatlantic markets (as further evidenced by 4 additional frequencies during the upcoming winter, for a total of 11 weekly), CDG MIA has, at least for the past couple of years, one of AF's weaker North American routes, together with the now closed EWR and ORD. AF is not even maintaining a daily year round frequency on the route. AF is also not sending its premium configured equipment to MIA. All of this seems to at least point into the direction of a less than optimal yield situation.

If you are going to continue to make wild generalizations about supposed yield-based performance of certain routes, then please share with us where you are getting this information.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):

Actually the AF flight is year round now, it was only decreased because of the KL flight and the extra capacity skyteam put in MIA. Now with KL gone and DL suspending the MIA-LHR route AF is now daily to MIA again.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 9):
Actually the AF flight is year round now

It is not. The AF flight will go less than daily again in September. It will revert to daily for short periods in October and December only, but will otherwise be less than daily all through the W12 schedule (until the end of March).

You failed to answer my main question though. On what do you base yours statements regarding supposed yield performance of all of these routes. You cannot just declare that a route is high yielding without some data to back that up. Do you have inside information that most of all of us here have no access to?


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):

Miaintl talks about yields all the time. Not sure where or how he thinks they are so simple to figure out especially because it's confidential information.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 5):

BA, LH, and LX certainly are good performing routes with higher yields because those airlines send premium products to MIA. AF does not, AF is also fighting for PAX with AA and Crosair. Crosair on the route shows that MIA-Paris is more of a tourist destination than business. MIA-Paris is no MIA-LHR or MIA-ZRH.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 10):

The flight is 6x weekly through most of the winter and then daily in the summer. This is not a significant cutback, also keep in mind the AF faces competition on the Paris route form two other airlines, plus AZ is also 6x weekly from FCO, skyteam in general is weak in MIA. LHR, FRA, ZRH, and SVO are the best preforming routes out of MIA.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 12):
The flight is 6x weekly through most of the winter and then daily in the summer.

You just said that it was daily year round. Yet my point was that one of the indicators that it is not AF's most stellar TATL performer is that the airline does not keep a daily schedule for most of the year and does not send its most premium product on the route.

You nevertheless claimed that AF's yields are great, so I would like to know where you are coming from with this statement as well as with other yield-related statements. Please back up your claims this time. Route yield analysis is treated extremely confidential and even large majority of airline staff would not have access to such data, so would you mind telling us where you get yours?


User currently offlineKFlyer From Sri Lanka, joined Mar 2007, 1226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2748 times:

Fully agree with the points argued by HB-IWC. Nothing personal against miaintl, but obtaining competitor route-wise yield data is no such easy task - and I'm sure all of us would be glad to hear what your source is. While you can get a general idea of the yield situation if you monitor an airline's pricing and fare class initiatives for a long time - there is still a lot of info that needs to be gathered prior to concluding that a given route for a given airline is high yielding (low yielding - you can at least more easily guess). I have personally found that even BSP data are not very reliable at this.


The opinions above are solely my own and do not express those of my employers or clients.
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

I basically made assumptions on the fares of the flight and my experiences on flying on theses routes myself and looking at the passengers. But anyways lets get back to the topic of TP, does anyone see this route still being around by next summer? We saw KL pullout in less than a year, does anyone see TP doing the same?

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 15):
But anyways lets get back to the topic of TP, does anyone see this route still being around by next summer?

YES. No reason to doubt that at this point. TP has said they are very happy with how it has performed. So much so that they have increased their Summer frequencies. But then again, TP could be a very different airline by next Summer. But all things being equal I can see this route sticking around.


User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 1020 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

What effects will the privatization have on TPs long haul ops?

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 12 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 17):
What effects will the privatization have on TPs long haul ops?

I think that all depends on who buys TP. Personally I don't think there is anyone interested in buying TP. I don't believe any of the news stories that the government is putting out to the media about any potential interested parties.


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