Ryanair 737 winglet hits AA 767 elevator, causing damage to both. Ryanair captain disregards information from purser and passengers and doesn't inform the AA crew of a potential collision. The 767 took off with the damaged elevator. The 737 flew two sectors until the damage was noticed.
shufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 480 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 33857 times:
This is just a failure all round. The crew ignored information from people that a collision has definitely taken place and also didn't notice anything on the go around. The crew of the Ryanair crew knew nothing about the severity of the damage. They didn't even know if the AA was capable of flight due to the damage, yet ignored it. If it's true that this Captain has just been demoted rather than stripped of their job, of even license, then that's crazy.
This is what happens when you fly with a lot of pressure from your commercial department. You end up in stressed situations with fatigues pilots, bad decision making and ill performed pre-flight inspections due to short turn-arounds.
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 8): The crew ignored information from people that a collision has definitely taken place and also didn't notice anything on the go around.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1956 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 33212 times:
After reading the article, I'm going to refrain from making any comments related to women drivers......
One thing does confuse me, wouldn't BCN Air Traffic Control have told the Ryanair to hold short and wait for the 763 to commence it's takeoff roll? Or did ATC think there was enough clearance for the 738 to get past the 763?
Either way, it seems that someone wasn't exercising proper judgement.
Then again, I can remember the first time I flew Iberia, from BCN to LPA, we took off, climbed out, and another 727 passed under us so close that I could literally see it's registration. That made me more than a little nervous. Has BCN ATC never heard of one mile separation?
Lastly, as damaged as that left stabilizer was, wouldn't that have presented issues in the cockpit of the 763?
I'd rather be one of the worst and Dumbest than the best and brightest....life's so much more stress free that way
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32551 times:
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 11): One thing does confuse me, wouldn't BCN Air Traffic Control have told the Ryanair to hold short and wait for the 763 to commence it's takeoff roll? Or did ATC think there was enough clearance for the 738 to get past the 763?
Both airplanes were on the holding area short of the runway. Neither was actually on the runway. They were both in an area shown in the photo where dozens of planes taxi past each other every day.
No. The photo of the damage to the B767 shows a very minor dent in the elevator. The angle and the zoom makes it look a lot bigger than it really is. The impact would not have been noticable in the cockpit of the B767, or the B737. It would have had no impact on the flight controls of the airplane.
Any damage to the B737 would have been on the very top of the winglet. Those things are high, and hard to see unless you can get above the winglet and look down. My understanding is that many Ryanair aircraft park at remote stands. The damage likely could not be seen until the plane was parked at a jetway.
EagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 2186 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32469 times:
Quoting kl911 (Reply 9): Crew didnt notice due to the very bumby taxiway, plus it wasnt a hit, more like a brush.
Well that all OK then. Being an FR fanboy does not allow you to make moronic comments.
A commercial airliner made contact with another aircraft before both took-off, the flight deck didn't investigate the 'brush' when they were informed of it, and didn't inform the other aircraft/ATC.......and you seem to be fine with this incident?
LU9092 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32358 times:
This strikes me as a very serious issue deserving a thorough investigation into the FR captain's actions that day, as well as the business, cultural, and training issues that may have contributed to it. Especially damning is that in this case, the captain put at risk the crew and passengers of another plane. Any airline that would keep a pilot guilty of such gross negligence and dereliction of duty should have its certification carefully reconsidered. I hope the proper authorities have a good look.
Luckily both aircraft remained airworthy, but it seems particularly dangerous in that the 763 crew had likely already performed all of their control surface checks, no? Had the impact impaired function of the elevator, the AA crew may not have known until their plane failed to rotate as expected. That's a very bad time to find out your airplane is broken. I hope that AA pursues this matter as well, if for no other reason than to be sure FR sees consequences that it might wish to avoid in the future.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 32202 times:
From the picture, it appears that the impact is not forceful enough to be noticeably felt by the occupants of both planes. The 767's horstab is quite high up and dihedral. The topmost tip of the 737's winglet just barely sliced into the stab's trailing edge which is also slightly lower to the ground than the leading edge. The winglet then exited under the stab, causing no further damage other than maybe a little linear indent and gradually fainter scratchline on the upward and outward slanting underside. A glancing blow that caused a small part of the thin trailing edge to break off and an area of the upper skin further in to pop up.
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 4): I thought that a "walk around" is done before every flight.
How come the damage was not noticed for 2 sectors.
My take is that as the damage to the winglet is at the top and is not heavy, it could be missed by the ground crew who are not aware of the accident and are therefore not specifically looking for anything unusual. As for the pilots, did they miss performing the required walkabout or did they just nonchalantly do a cursory one?
spiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 31912 times:
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic and is the STUPIDEST question I have ever asked, but in the comments, somebody mentions that Ryanair only has only pilot for flight. That isn't true, is it? Once again, I sincerely doubt that that is true, but I just want to clarify.
travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1807 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 31868 times:
Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 20): Sorry if this is a bit off-topic and is the STUPIDEST question I have ever asked, but in the comments, somebody mentions that Ryanair only has only pilot for flight. That isn't true, is it? Once again, I sincerely doubt that that is true, but I just want to clarify.
The quite flamboyant (if you can call it that) CEO of Ryanair mentioned it a few times, probably to get media attention (a strategy that worked quite well IIRC). But it's luckily impossible with current regulations.
kl911 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2003, 5493 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 31795 times:
Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 15): A commercial airliner made contact with another aircraft before both took-off, the flight deck didn't investigate the 'brush' when they were informed of it, and didn't inform the other aircraft/ATC.......and you seem to be fine with this incident?
No, I didnt say that. But judging from the number of posts of AA planes hitting their own planes at airports they should be used to it. To me this sounds like FR bashing again. Every airline can get away with it exept for FR....typical..