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UA SYD-MEL-SYD - Which Base?  
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 665 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8745 times:

Which crew base operate the SYD-MEL-SYD shuttle at UA at this point in time?

Also, how many crew does UA operate their 744s with?

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8520 times:

Is there any chance that we could see this route go non-stop? I would imagine that with UA have such high staffing costs that it must be exceptional expensive for them to operate such a tag on flight, not to mention a 744 can't be too efficient across SYD-MEL-SYD. Also UA maintains it's own lounge in MEL. Is MEL really that important a city?

Would a SYD crew base be worth while? They could operate SYD-MEL-SYD and form part of the crew (not all) up to SFO and LAX. Or would even Aus contracting staff be more expensive (plus administration costs) then senior UA crew?

One of the few strange quirky little routes left in this region of the world.


User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8466 times:

I'm confused. I have little doubt that this tag is operated by a cockpit crew who flew in a certain number of days before. They would then rest again in SYD before flying back to LAX. The only 744 pilots in SYD work for rival QF unless some sort of deal could be struck with a cargo airline. Not sure why there would be any savings with that.

This has gone direct seasonally (unless I'm thinking of the SFO flight) but it is unlikely to do so full time as the 744 non-ER takes load restrictions LAX/SFO-MEL and they cannot compete with QF's A380s on LAX-MEL which have no restriction I am aware of.


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6503 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):

Which crew base operate the SYD-MEL-SYD shuttle at UA at this point in time?

LAX

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Also, how many crew does UA operate their 744s with?

I believe 16 F/As and four pilots on LAX/SFO-SYD; one captain and three F/Os.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8323 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 1):
Is there any chance that we could see this route go non-stop?

Probably once they have 787's and A350's. I imagine they will fly daily from SFO to SYD and MEL, and will probably keep the existing LAX-SYD-MEL rotation, perhaps adding a nonstop during the summer in place of the additional SYD frequency.

Quoting thegeek (Reply 2):
This has gone direct seasonal

They haven't flown nonstop into MEL for a decade, seasonally or otherwise.


User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5298 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):


They haven't flown nonstop into MEL for a decade, seasonally or otherwise.

They did it seasonally for about 6 weeks 3-4 years ago Dec through Feb with 744s daily.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):


Probably once they have 787's and A350's. I imagine they will fly daily from SFO to SYD and MEL, and will probably keep the existing LAX-SYD-MEL rotation, perhaps adding a nonstop during the summer in place of the additional SYD frequency.

There is an article floating around I don't have a link though saying UA is happy with its Australian Ops and will consider increasing flights most likely with smaller aircraft such as 787s. I think SFO-MEL and possibly a BNE service.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 5):
They did it seasonally for about 6 weeks 3-4 years ago Dec through Feb with 744s daily.

Apologies, I forgot about that. Summer 2008-9 according to the old thread.

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 5):
There is an article floating around I don't have a link though saying UA is happy with its Australian Ops and will consider increasing flights most likely with smaller aircraft such as 787s. I think SFO-MEL and possibly a BNE service.

Makes sense. I'd love to see a nonstop to IAH (or even ORD), but it just doesn't make sense with the strength of the SFO hub...


User currently offline777ord From United States of America, joined May 2010, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7882 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
Quoting smi0006 (Reply 1):
Is there any chance that we could see this route go non-stop?

Probably once they have 787's and A350's. I imagine they will fly daily from SFO to SYD and MEL, and will probably keep the existing LAX-SYD-MEL rotation, perhaps adding a nonstop during the summer in place of the additional SYD frequency.

Yes, we may be pulling a 744 and various other planes from storage, but, don't expect MEL to go nonstop from LAX/SFO anytime soon. The loads to SYD have been really steady for a VERY long time. Except in June they were insanely under booked. Made for a great weekend (sorta lol) trip down.

I'd be more worried about their A320's that are constantly on mechanical delays. I've never heard of one carrier having so many issues with one type aircraft!


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7768 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 1):
Would a SYD crew base be worth while? They could operate SYD-MEL-SYD and form part of the crew (not all) up to SFO and LAX. Or would even Aus contracting staff be more expensive (plus administration costs) then senior UA crew?

Also not sure what the contractual obligations UA has with their crew and whether this would be allowed or not. As is I know that the intra-Asia based crew (all non NRT crew) can't fly to the United States and only do the intra-Asia hops.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7434 times:

Quoting 777ord (Reply 7):
I'd be more worried about their A320's that are constantly on mechanical delays. I've never heard of one carrier having so many issues with one type aircraft!

I've never heard of this carrier having any issues with that type of aircraft, either, most likely because they're not.

NS


User currently offline777222LR From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 132 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

I believe the aircraft that does SYD-MEL-SYD comes from SFO, at least that is what happened on my LAX-SYD flight last year. The LAX-SYD-MEL flight is all one flight number, but requires a change of aircraft. The SFO-SYD-SFO flights have a longer turn around time due to shorter flight schedules it seems, so they were using the SFO aircraft. As far as crew, that I am not sure of.

User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7342 times:

From what I recall it's generally been the SFO aircraft (863/870) but LAX-based crew that operate the SYD-MEL-SYD leg.

If you don't do the SYD-MEL-SYD leg I think Australia is a 5-day trip for the SFO-based crew (given the day lost crossing the International Date Line), but with the extra legs it becomes a 6-day trip for the LAX-based crew (one full off day after the morning arrival from the US, so nearly two days free downroute). With the scheduling it works to be a fairly lengthy layover for the crews.  



Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 2928 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6813 times:

A good friend of mine works at United and regularly does this.

Quoting Jackbr (Thread starter):
Which crew base operate the SYD-MEL-SYD shuttle at UA at this point in time?

At the moment LAX operate it. Generally F/A's arrive day 1, rest day 2, operate SYD-MEL-SYD day 3 and then fly SYD-LAX day 4. It can be shorter than this by 1 day but in general that's what happens. At the Novotel Darling Harbour you'll find plenty of United Crews to ask.  


User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6757 times:

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 10):
The LAX-SYD-MEL flight is all one flight number, but requires a change of aircraft.

Last August (5th/7th) I flew LAX-SYD-MEL and both legs were on N174UA.



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 22 hours ago) and read 5288 times:

Once the 787's start rolling out, is an SFO-BNE-MEL, SFO-SYD, LAX-BNE, LAX-SYD, LAX-MEL kind of arrangement feasible? Coupled with Triple-7's of course.

Speaking of which, does UA have any 77W's on the way?

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3355 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 21 hours ago) and read 5113 times:

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 10):
I believe the aircraft that does SYD-MEL-SYD comes from SFO, at least that is what happened on my LAX-SYD flight last year. The LAX-SYD-MEL flight is all one flight number, but requires a change of aircraft.

I just did MEL-SYD-SFO on the 17th (on to YYZ but its irrelevant to the discussion) and never considered that. But as UA 840 to LAX leaves IIRC an hour before UA 870 to SFO it makes sense that they do it this way because why would you rush a turnaround and a crew change when you have a 744 parked at SYD. I never looked at the reg or if the gate was the same one I entered the terminal in SYD.

Usually I know when I'm getting on the same plane during a connection but this one may have passed my mind and it is possibly a different plane.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5621 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 20 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 14):
Speaking of which, does UA have any 77W's on the way?

No, B787s only from Boeing.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1099 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 19 hours ago) and read 4628 times:
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Quoting 777ord (Reply 7):

You've Never seen so many disgruntled pilots either, There's nothing wrong with the airplanes, All of that will come to light Right after the ALPA contract is settled. Then we'll train a whole NEW group of "Knuckeheads" to fly them and be right back in the soup again as they try to bring Boeing into an Airbus conversation. I like working the airbus but having both fleets?? Get's a little tiresome. The A320 has a lot going on that needs understandsing. and a lot of crews that Come from the Boeing side Do NOT get the differences. Hell I didn't get many of them either at first. Especially until I started working with the 777's and 747's where the A320 seems to have some commonality. Unfortunately, Pilots don't go to the 777 from the Airbus, Nor do they come From the 777 To the airbus. I think it will be the same when we get the A350. because you'll have Boeing oriented 757-767,787 first Officers and Captains now flying the A350. and it will again become a "Turkey Shoot" until they come to grips with it..


User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 18 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

To the OP,

Generally MEL turns are on the LAX(SW) base bids. Sometimes SFO gets to operate the trip. As described, its a 6 day trip for crews- two full days of rest in SYD with the MEL turn in the middle. Not bad...

As for the front office, I believe MEL turns can go to either SFO or LAX based crews.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 8):

Also not sure what the contractual obligations UA has with their crew and whether this would be allowed or not. As is I know that the intra-Asia based crew (all non NRT crew) can't fly to the United States and only do the intra-Asia hops.
UA does not have intra-Asia crews anymore. Only NRT and HKG bases, which are staffed by AFA flight attendants. These domiciles do, however cover intra-Asia flying, such as NRT-BKK or NRT-ICN.

Quoting 777222LR (Reply 10):
I believe the aircraft that does SYD-MEL-SYD comes from SFO, at least that is what happened on my LAX-SYD flight last year. The LAX-SYD-MEL flight is all one flight number, but requires a change of aircraft. The SFO-SYD-SFO flights have a longer turn around time due to shorter flight schedules it seems, so they were using the SFO aircraft. As far as crew, that I am not sure of.

The rotation is as following, using N179UA and N107UA as our two aircraft.

N179UA arrives as UA863 (SFO-SYD) and continues to MEL as UA839.
N179UA returns to SYD as UA840, then onto LAX with the same flight number.

N107UA arrives as UA839 (LAX-SYD). N107UA is towed to remote parking thereafter.
N107UA operates UA870 to SFO later in the day.

So in essence, the inbound aircraft from SFO continues to MEL, then back to SYD and onto LAX.
The inbound aircraft from LAX sits on the ground for half the day and returns to SFO.

The flights are blocked with only a minute difference, so it has more to do with the fact that the outbound LA flight leaves about an hour before the outbound SFO flight.

[Edited 2012-07-30 23:53:21]

User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 17 hours ago) and read 4283 times:

Do the 2nd and 3rd F/Os have an extra day in SYD or do they go back with a different CPT + 1st F/O? I assume they don't operate as surplus crew on SYD-MEL-SYD. I suppose the same question for F/As.

User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 20, posted (2 years 17 hours ago) and read 4234 times:
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Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 18):
The rotation is as following, using N179UA and N107UA as our two aircraft.

N179UA arrives as UA863 (SFO-SYD) and continues to MEL as UA839.
N179UA returns to SYD as UA840, then onto LAX with the same flight number.

N107UA arrives as UA839 (LAX-SYD). N107UA is towed to remote parking thereafter.
N107UA operates UA870 to SFO later in the day.

When I was familiar with the operation(up until a couple of years ago) that is how I would see most days, if one AC was delayed for some rason they would operate SYD-MEL with the avail aircraft, then maybe re arrange the assignments after 840 arrived back from MEL... sometimes not.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3131 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 hours ago) and read 4054 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 4):
They haven't flown nonstop into MEL for a decade, seasonally or otherwise

Was MEL ever served via AKL by UA, or was that just PA? If UA ever goes back to AKL, maybe a SFO-AKL-MEL flight on a 787 would be better, at least they could offer seats for sale on the trans-Tasman flight, if they have 5th freedom of course.



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User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1730 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 19):
Do the 2nd and 3rd F/Os have an extra day in SYD or do they go back with a different CPT + 1st F/O? I assume they don't operate as surplus crew on SYD-MEL-SYD. I suppose the same question for F/As.

I'm not sure about the flight crews. I would imagine they try and keep them together, however since flights are arriving and departing on the daily, there are plenty of bodies to occupy the flight deck.

As for FAs, the ones that don't bid and operate on the MEL turn, go back to LAX on day 5 (instead of day 6). Sometimes, an "extra" LAX FA will work SYD-SFO and deadhead to LAX.

SFO crews usually stick together for the entire trip, since they typically don't operate MEL turns.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 21):
Was MEL ever served via AKL by UA, or was that just PA? If UA ever goes back to AKL, maybe a SFO-AKL-MEL flight on a 787 would be better, at least they could offer seats for sale on the trans-Tasman flight, if they have 5th freedom of course.

I'm working from second hand information here, but I'm pretty sure they did. The announced a nonstop flight in 1999 or 2000, which didn't last all that long once QF decided it was a market they wanted to be in as well.

I'd prefer to see a nonstop flight though, rather than one through AKL. UA has a massive opportunity with SFO to offer far more one-stop connectivity from MEL than QF can (unless they suddenly figure out how to make a nonstop MEL-DFW-MEL work) -- they just need a plane with enough range and in the right size bracket.


User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 21):
Was MEL ever served via AKL by UA, or was that just PA? If UA ever goes back to AKL, maybe a SFO-AKL-MEL flight on a 787 would be better, at least they could offer seats for sale on the trans-Tasman flight, if they have 5th freedom of course.

Yes, I flew the AKL-SFO (I assume, it could have been LAX, but I have no reason to think it was) portion, and the plane was delayed coming in from MEL, which surprised me since I had just assumed it would be coming from the US and doing a turn.



When in doubt, one B pump off
25 GT4EZY : Reply 12 Alot of crews and airlines tend not to want crew hotel details being posted in the public domain.
26 RWA380 : I thought so, in fact I was on a UA 747 flying SFO-HNL, (which my first and only ferry of an extra engine) was continuing onwards to AKL then MEL, II
27 6thfreedom : UA operated LAX-MEL via AKL for many years (not via SYD). in mid 1999 UA announced LAX-MEL non-stop, due to commence December 1999 the following day
28 ZK-NBT : MEL-LAX non stop ran from DEC 99-April 01. AKL then changed to a 772 in June 02 until it was dropped in March 03, MEL as you say went via SYD. UA nev
29 RWA380 : Indeed they did in the late 80's to early 90's time frame, I flew the SFO-HNL leg, it left SFO in the evening arriving HNL 10pm or so, a 742 riding i
30 Viscount724 : I believe the 747 5th pod option was always on the left wing, at least I've never seen a photo of a 5th pod on the right wing..
31 cbphoto : When I jumpseated from SFO to SYD on United, their were 2 full sets of flight deck crew (2 Captains, 2 FOs) but that might have been an odd day, or cr
32 RWA380 : I was sitting in the nose of the plane, under the cockpit in seat 2B, It was at night, so I'm sure it could be possible I remembered this flight inco
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