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United To Terminate IAD-MAD Enchanced Code Share  
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14517 times:

From the Employee's website

"We notified Aer Lingus last week of our intent to exercise our right to terminate the enhanced code share on Aug. 1 for service between IAD and MAD (Madrid, Spain). The termination takes effect 90 days after the notification, so the flights will continue through the end of October. We will maintain our other codeshare flights with Aer Lingus, and we will continue to serve MAD via EWR."

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1217 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 14485 times:
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Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2866 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13974 times:

There was no need for the merged entity to continue this highly contentious outsourced operation. It was instituted as a clever way around PMUA's policy that ALL long haul/intercontinental operations would be flown on premium-heavy 4 class (F/J/Y+/Y) widebody aircraft. The new UA can now reserve those 4 class birds for routes that actually support them, and utilize higher density 3 class (J/Y+/Y) aircraft - be they PMCO 752s/762s/764s/772s or newly refurbished PMUA 763 "ghetto birds", on lower-yielding long haul/intercontinental routes. We have already seen SFO-CDG make a comeback; this route was not viable when operated by a 4 class PMUA aircraft but is an attractive [resumption] opportunity given the availability of the higher density aircraft. I would not be surprised to see this route continue, perhaps after a seasonal break, on some form of UA metal like the refurbished "ghetto bird" 763. Or maybe with all of the economic turmoil in Spain they will simply serve MAD from EWR for now, and possibly reinstate IAD-MAD in the future when the situation there begins to improve...

On that note, I think there are many exciting possibilities for the new UA:

Most or all of the PMCO transpacific routes (IAH-NRT and EWR-NRT/HKG/PEK/PVG) upgraded to premium PMUA metal. The PMCO 772s (and the new 787s) could then be used for new or resumed transpacific routes like SFO-TPE/NGO/CAN, ORD-KIX/ICN, EWR-KIX/ICN, SFO-MEL/AKL, LAX-MEL/AKL, IAH-ICN/PEK/PVG/HKG, etc.

Additional PMCO transatlantic routes could be upgraded to premium PMUA metal, as has already happened on EWR-BRU/ZRH. I would think most or all flights into LHR and FRA could justify such service, not to mention EWR-TLV. PMCO birds could assume routes like ORD-CDG/AMS and IAD-FCO that really don't need premium 4 class service, and perhaps open up possibilities like IAD-BCN/MAD/MXP/TXL/LIS, ORD-DUB/DUS/MAD/BCN/BHX/GLA/MAN, SFO-AMS/BRU, LAX-CDG/FRA, etc.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 831 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13833 times:

So what will Aer Lingus do with the A330 I wonder?


from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineSaabFA71 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13734 times:

Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!


I used all of my sick days, so now I'm calling in dead.
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 777 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13670 times:

Quoting acelanzarote (Reply 3):
So what will Aer Lingus do with the A330 I wonder?
Quoting SaabFA71 (Reply 4):
Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!

Well EI have only just announced increased frequencies on DUB-ORD up from 7x weekly to 11x weekly and many people see DUB-SFO as a likely destination for the aircraft. Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 13511 times:

Quoting SaabFA71 (Reply 4):
Now that Aer Lingus has an A330 free they can start PHL-DUB!

I don't think any new routes are planned, but rather consolidate operations on existing routes such as the already announced extra ORD rotations.

EI won't start new long haul destinations unless it can be sure they can be profitable from day one.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3263 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13448 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):
Well EI have only just announced increased frequencies on DUB-ORD up from 7x weekly to 11x weekly and many people see DUB-SFO as a likely destination for the aircraft. Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming

Well actually it is, if ORD gets additional service and SFO new service (both cities being hubs with UA) UA said they will continue the rest of their code sharing with EI, UA gains additional service to ORD and new service to SFO, and looses something that most likely wasn't working.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13327 times:

Following in the footsteps of DUB and MAN, will we see IAD>MAD on UA metal in 2013? CO used to fly 777's and 2x757's in the summer to MAD. Same for BCN.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 13202 times:

While I don't see it happening, this seems like a perfect route for an AA 757 if United doesn't reenter the market.

User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2058 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 13060 times:

IAH!  I can dream, can I not?   


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinespeedbrds From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12988 times:

That's too bad to hear. I took that flight last year. It was nice because the aircraft load was rather moderate and was nice to move about the a/c. However, it was a bit confusing when departing MAD to IAD as I was unsure what terminal/check-in counter since it was an Aer Lingus a/c and boarding at a United gate. I suppose my lack of familiarity with this concept hindered my ability to travel smoothly at that time.

User currently offlineA318 From Bahamas, joined Jan 2008, 330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12455 times:

I recently flew IAD-MAD and will be making the return in the middle of September. It is to my understanding that the flight crews are Dublin based and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals. What happens with the cabin crews? Do they get furloughed? Do they have the opportunity to move to one of their EU bases given the circumstances? I'm not sure if there is any sort of contractual language regarding this issue.


Welcome aboard!
User currently offlineirishair98 From Ireland, joined Dec 2011, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11783 times:
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This is great news for me as UA could've used there own metal in this route not needing Aer Lingus to do it. With an A330 free'd up for EI 3 times a week with the free'd A330 being used 4 times a week. EI could open a new route with the other 3 days the new route would most likely be SFO


Dhún Na Ngall Abú!
User currently offlinemcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1466 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 11644 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 8):
Following in the footsteps of DUB and MAN, will we see IAD>MAD on UA metal in 2013? CO used to fly 777's and 2x757's in the summer to MAD. Same for BCN.

I think this withdrawal is a combination of factors. The biggest is probably the Spanish Debt/Eurozone crisis. The cooperative with UA really needed high load factors and fares to make this route viable. Neither has been the case this summer and with the winter slowdown coming the profits on this route were evasive.

Add to this the contentious issue of having EI crews flying UA flights and the animosity it created. The UA pilot union has been leveraging the "offshoring" of jobs and this flight was the prime example. It will also take some wind out fo the sails of UA-ALPA. I hope that perhaps this may indicate an agreement is near for the pilots that would restrict this type of operation. We are told scope was one of the few remaining items and this flight would be a victim of stronger scope.

Now if we can just eliminate hundreds of those RJ's and bring them back to the mainline.....

I don't think anyone at UA will miss having the green-machine operating from our gates/hauling our passengers. This experiment much like many of the Tilton initiatives has failed. Although I think up to recently there were posters on this forum espousing that EI had inked a lengthy contract with UA and that EI was going to get additional UA flying. Glad to see they were wrong.


User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1676 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11491 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!

I'm surprised it wasn't announced by the company as a direct piece of pilot negotiations as a PR thing.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):
Looks like the EI / UA relationship isnt exactly blooming

Actually it still is, which is part of why they are upping ORD service.

Quoting A318 (Reply 12):
and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals.

Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9425 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11283 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):

No because the problem is still there, UA just isn't using it. You can expect the pilots union to make sure it doesn't happen twice.



yep.
User currently offlinesafetyDemo From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 10966 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.

The flight attendants are employed by Aer Lingus, and not United. I am assuming they will all be furloughed/laid off.

-safetyDemo



Please direct your attention to the flight attendants in the cabin...
User currently offlineRDH3E From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1676 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

Quoting safetyDemo (Reply 17):
The flight attendants are employed by Aer Lingus, and not United. I am assuming they will all be furloughed/laid off.

Yeah, I know they don't work for United. I'm thinking they could possibly be moved and based at ORD to work the extra frequencies. I don't know how EI handles that type of thing though, as I believe those FA's were hired just for the IAD-MAD flight originally.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10791 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Quoting A318 (Reply 12):
and the cabin crews are IAD based and are not EU nationals.

Correct. The pursor on my flight lived in CLE and commuted to IAD for the flight. I'd assume they would now just commute to ORD instead.

I expect all the flight attendants to be laid off. EI was hiring relatively recently for the crew at IAD since it had high turnover.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10563 times:

If I remember correctly the cabin crews weren't able to fly other EI flights. They were hired strictly for IAD and not part of the EI seniority list.

User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 777 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10217 times:

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 15):
Actually it still is, which is part of why they are upping ORD service.

Well one would think this is more EI looking after themselves rather than strengthening their relationship with UA. Since UA and CO merged, UA now fly DUB-EWR and SNN-EWR, the former CO routes, and have introduced IAD-DUB. None of these flights have an EI codeshare on them despite the EI flights to USA having UA numbers. Why? As for rumours of EI launching SFO, I would suspect this is more of a defensive move against UA, rather than one that will strengthen their relationship. Just my opinion however



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 21):
As for rumours of EI launching SFO, I would suspect this is more of a defensive move against UA, rather than one that will strengthen their relationship. Just my opinion however

I think these EI SFO rumours are just speculation by a few A-Netters, i'd be surprised if they re-started it with the economic situation still this bad.
They could fill it no problem, but they would need yields high enough to cover all the high costs associated with a route this long.


User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 619 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6416 times:

With this, United now serves Madrid from their Newark hub only. When the winter low season is over, I expect they will upgauge EWR-MAD from the current 1 or 2 757s daily to a 763/4 or 772.

The big question is, will they restart IAD-MAD in the Spring with 757 or 767 service? I hope they will.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 21):
Well one would think this is more EI looking after themselves rather than strengthening their relationship with UA.

Aer Lingus aren't in an alliance, so far as I know, and if they codeshare with UA, it is minimal. Unless EI joins *A, their flying from Dublin to ORD or SFO, etc., is in competition with UA. Maybe with Star's loss of bmi, EI will join up.  


User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6344 times:

yup flt atts were route specific. Yup..the announcement of the cessation came quickly after ALPA started up the campaign against it while in negotiations. Very quickly. I would expect route restart spring if Spain's economy holds up...but by UA metal or by *star but not a repeat of the current arrangement.

but your mileage may vary...grin


User currently offlinemaxamuus From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.

I suspect that was the main reason for the cancellation. With Spain's economy in the tank, if the flight was even profitable the amount of profit wasn't worth the bad blood it was causing among UA's pilots especially during "difficult" contract negotiations.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

Hopefully this is an early indicator of an agreement pending with the pilots!

-m

  


User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 26):
Hopefully this is an early indicator of an agreement pending with the pilots!

As others have commented, I think this is more a reflection of Spain's economy than anything else. From the "scuttlebutt" I've been hearing, the contract negotiations with the pilots are not progressing well. Allegedly, the company is now moving away from positions that they had agreed to earlier.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 1):
Well that saved THAT sticking point with the Pilots.. Good Move!!

I wonder if the EI code share cancellation coupled with the latest news about UA terminating outsourced maintenance at PEMCO are signs the company is making proactive overtures towards the unions during negotiations

PEMCO cancellation:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...-lay-off-nearly-500-at-tia/1243844



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
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