777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11310 posts, RR: 17 Posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 22050 times:
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Welcome to the #118th Edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #117 New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 117 (by cchan Jul 7 2012 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:
- New Zealand residents paying more for NZ flights compared to Australians, UK residents
- AKL-HKG-LHR flight number change
- NZs B763s J class
- NZs 'One up' programme has launched
- NZ drops down Skytrax's worlds best airlines list
- NZ announce 'Hobbit' planes are coming! A B772 and B77W will be painted into Hobbit colours for the Hobbit movies
- ATR 72-600 first delivery will be a special livery......All Black design
- NZs special livery fleet
- New Zealand Emergency diversion airports
- Eagle Airs 1900D fleet replacements
- HA announce AKL-HNL 3x per week from Mach 2013
- NZs changing its livery.....black tail with white Koru
- NZs first B789 delivery will seat 300 pax for Asian routes
- Zest Air (Phillipines) announces its intention to launch AKL services
- NZs changing LAX terminals in 2014 with NZ building a new Star Alliance lounge in TBIT
- FedEx are coming to AKL with a once weekly MD11 service starting this weekend
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11310 posts, RR: 17 Reply 1, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22069 times:
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Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 217): Quoting koruman (Reply 216):
my past as a loyal Air NZ passenger and I respect their staff hugely
Quoting koruman (Reply 216):
Air NZ's marvellous staff have worked hard for years to create a top quality airline, an airline which many of us would go out of our way to fly when there were more convenient or more affordable alternatives.
Thats why it would be a shame, front line staff who have and still do go the extra mile (They have for me in the past many times when I traveled as a passenger). I do accept though that staff service is only part of the overall picture
Fully agree that the staff deserve better! The best two memorys I've got of NZs staff was AKL-LAX in Christmas 2010. I was booked in Y and managed to get a seat in the first two rows with a couple in their 50s/60s beside me. An FA from Business/Premium Economy came to my seat before push back and welcomed me by my first name and handed me a J/Y+ headphones as well as an in-flight bag that J pax get as there were spares in J. Shortly after take off the same FA came back to my row and asked the couple beside me if they would like two rows to themselfs further down the back to sleep during the flight. They accepted her offer and she said they were welcome to return to their original seats before landing to enable them to be one of the first Y pax to get off in LAX. After showing the couple to their new seats, the FA returned to my row and thanked me for flying with Air NZ today. Before she returned to J/Y+ she asked me if there was any wine I would like with my meal that wasn't offered in Y or if I would like a breakfast smoothie before breakfast. Naturally I happily accepted both.
In July 2010 returning from SFO, my in-coming UA flight from DEN was very late, after running like mad to the NZ gate, the gate agents re-opened the gate to allow 5 more pax on. On board NZ7 I had a medical emergency before push back which resulted in the aircraft being delayed an extra 30mins as the captain didn't want to take off till I had improved. Finally while taxiing to the runway, one of the FAs stayed with me till the very last minute as I was in J before she needed to take her seat. During the flight FAs frequently stopped and asked how I was. Needless to say after arriving back home I contacted NZ and thanked them
Service like this when front line staff go beyond whats expected of them is what makes an airline
Interesting topic. What will be the replacement? Some say the Q200 may be a go as Bombardier may be willing to repoen the line, what about the Brasillia?
Yep, thats exactly what I mean. But if the company do get pushed down to 3 stars, I hope they will wake up and claw back some ground. Like Koruman says, many people on here give the impression of 'slagging off the carrier' but in fact they just want NZ to improve and do well
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11310 posts, RR: 17 Reply 6, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 21549 times:
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Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 2): Quoting 777ER (Thread starter):Eagle Airs 1900D fleet replacements
Interesting topic. What will be the replacement? Some say the Q200 may be a go as Bombardier may be willing to repoen the line, what about the Brasillia?
Previous thread mostly discussed ATR42 and 72 as a future fleet due to the 72-600 order
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 21309 times:
Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 7): The ATR 42 IMO is too close to the DHC8 in terms of capacity.
The manufacturers have to recognise that there is no replacement for the various 19-40 seat fleets around the world - the Twin Otter, Do.228, Emb Bandit & Brasilia, Saab 340, Beech 1900, BA J31 & J41 plus some others that I've forgotten including the various former Soviet builds. Must be well over a thousand that will need some form of imminent or near term replacement?!
I've been following this since the first news article IIRC last year and IMHO the employee did everything correct in trying to figure out what his correct pay was and NZ 100% stuffed up. Really happy the courts have awarded the win to the employee and not NZ!
Some airlines (Great Lakes Aviation USA for example) don't operate anything bigger then a 50 seater and their business fully needs a replacement aircraft in the same markets. Will be interesting to see how this replacement needs go! Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example). Maybe Eagle and Air Nelson will be given no option but to merge operations if the 1900D can't be fully replaced or could we see Eagle move to Q200 ops if Bombardier agree to build some Q200s for NZ. I'm sure other airlines like AC would happily jump on some new Q200s if given the chance
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1527 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 21150 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 10): Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example).
Threads elsewhere have identified that the Brasilia is still potentially orderable (presumably given a certain minimum order size) as it is built on the same production line as the ERJ-135 and -145. Having said that, I don't know if any have been built since production "ceased", or whether it's just an A-net myth. And I've no idea whether the Brasilia would be a really suitable replacement, or whether it's the only "new" aircraft available.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 21025 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 10): Some airlines (Great Lakes Aviation USA for example) don't operate anything bigger then a 50 seater and their business fully needs a replacement aircraft in the same markets. Will be interesting to see how this replacement needs go! Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example). Maybe Eagle and Air Nelson will be given no option but to merge operations if the 1900D can't be fully replaced or could we see Eagle move to Q200 ops if Bombardier agree to build some Q200s for NZ. I'm sure other airlines like AC would happily jump on some new Q200s if given the chance
The problem being that such operators have wafer thin profit margins and thus will find it difficult to buy/lease new aircraft. As pretty much all sub 50 seater airlines are no longer in production, whoever brings a new clean-sheet design to production will have a monopoly on the market. Hopefully this should be enough of an incentive for Bombardier or Embraer (or possibly ATR/Alenia) to develop something for this segment sometime in the future.
nascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 217 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 20952 times:
China Airlines to go Daily into AKL
Effective Oct 29th CI will add 4 flights per week AKL-SYD-TPE.
Days 1,3,4,6 CI52 will operate AKL-SYD-TPE
DAys 2,5,7 CI54 will operate AKL-BNE-TPE
With A330-300 aircraft
gasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 733 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 20860 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 1): Service like this when front line staff go beyond whats expected of them is what makes an airline
It is certainly possible to have an overwhelmingly positve 'cabin crew' experience on NZ. My best experiences (I won't bore you with details) surpass anything encountered on any other carrier - including SQ, which I find the most consistently reliable in terms of cabin crew professionalism.
The key word is 'consistently'- and this I think is where NZ has always struggled. While my most positve cabin crew experiences have been with NZ; so too have my most negative. New Zealand culture struggles with conveying and enforcing specific workplace expectations in terms of personal pride and professionalism, and Air NZ is no excpetion. Most people have integrity and conduct themselves with professionalism anyway. The cohort that don't, unfortunately let the whole side down without any particular personal consequence.
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 20678 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 10): Will the builders agree to re-opening an aircraft line if they still have the tools required (Bombardier Q100, 200, 300 for example).
Well, Bombardier ceased production of the Q200 and Q300 because they wanted to up the production of the Q400 without expanding the factory. Now Q400 orders have dried up and production has dropped off.
There seems to be a good second hand market for Q300's with recent builds being snapped up for conversion to Maritime Surveillance. Air NZ could probably sell NFB and NFI for about what they paid and get more ATR72-600's.
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 18, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 20495 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 10): Really happy the courts have awarded the win to the employee and not NZ!
Agreed! And would not be surprised if this brings about a very well justified civil suit against NZ for unfair dismissal, loss of dignity, loss of earnings etc. Well done HR and payroll.
On the 789 configuration subject, do you think NZ will do a Y+ and Y only version for regional and leisure destinations? Or will it be some weird regional Biz like an updated version of that on the 763's? Presumably there will be a three class version on the LHR and North America bound 789's; NRT too?
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 22, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 20393 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 18): On the 789 configuration subject, do you think NZ will do a Y+ and Y only version for regional and leisure destinations?
Highly doubt it. Although S2S is taking over, I'm sure they still want their J revenue on the long haul flights. Y+ just doesn't cut it; or at least it's not enough of a premium product compared to J to allow NZ to drop J.
I believe the B77Ws Y+ product with better seat paddings would do the trick as a J product on leisure/regional routes since the first B789s are replacing the B763s on Asian routes. The B77W seat is more better IMHO as it provides pax with better privacy for single flyers.
Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 28, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20503 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 25): Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.
I was never suggesting HKG is a leisure market and think it will undoubtedly require a J equipped 789 service. In fact, when the global economy kicks into proper recovery, I could imagine the AKL-HKG-LHR requiring a 77W. The leisure (or less business focused) regional markets I was talking about are those like KIX, DPS, HNL. A sub-fleet of 789's configured in Y+ and Y only would help maximise NZ's load factors in these markets IMHO. Similar to VS's new leisure appointed A333's with Y+ and Y only.
I'd see NRT and HKG as requiring J still. Not sure of PVG's or PER's load factors in J but believe that it will only increase in biz market terms and therefore premium traffic.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 29, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20515 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28):
Eek, did not know Seats to Suit was being applied in long-haul.
Well look at the way it's going. If DPS and HNL are both now S2S destinations, who's to say that it'll be rolled out to a bigger market at least by the time the 787 arrives? Japan and China might be next. That is, of course, unless Luxon has a huge strategy turnaround and sends things in a completely different direction.
I just don't see NZ dumping J or needing to dump J from the 787 and I figured HKG may be up for 787 use. And nor do I see AKL-HKG-LHR being able to be sustained year round by a 77W (still need at least one more 77W too for that to happen). I think that the market conditions are much different to what VS is facing over the Atlantic. There's heaps of competition there compared to NZ's monopoly over many of these routes. And since VS started off as a LCC type airline, there are probably many people out there still thinking that they are.. Or the people who fly F/J would select another airline regardless anyway. I'm sure NZ can still sell some J seats and I believe that the revenue from selling them would remain more beneficial to the airline than stripping J and filling it in with more Y seats.
With so few 787s, I don't see the point of having different configurations.. It means that you're less flexible when it comes to aircraft changes - a big deal if you've booked J and end up in Y+ because your plane went tech. And that person will probably avoid NZ as much as they can. There's a chance it could be viable with a bigger fleet size but obviously NZ's far too small to be doing such a thing.
There are elements to the case that have not been reported in the media. The individual concerned may have rightly won his case but one should ask why he was not also seeking reinstatement.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 31, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 20363 times:
Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 31): The individual concerned may have rightly won his case but one should ask why he was not also seeking reinstatement
Often people don't want reinstatement if they feel the working relationship has been damaged beyond repair. It is not actually all that unusual not to seek reinstatement. Whether I felt I had done anything wrong or not I would probably prefer to move on after something like this.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 32, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 20340 times:
This is from Monday night but still related to this thread,
''Flight delay after tarmac cracks found''
A Los Angeles-bound Air New Zealand flight from Auckland was delayed by more than four hours after cracks were found on the tarmac underneath the aircraft last night.
Auckland International Airport spokesperson Richard Llewellyn said the cracks were found just beyond the push back area, where aircraft come into the airport terminal.
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 33, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 20283 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 29): I figured HKG may be up for 787 use.
NZ stated that the North Asia will get the 789 first, and the examples being quoted are NRT, KIX and PVG. All of these 3 destinations will be served by 763s in the near future, if not presently. While most airlines would put HKG as part of their North Asia destinations, HKG has not been mentioned by NZ to be among the first to get the 789. It would be interesting what aircraft will operate AKL-HKG-LHR in the medium term. Counting the number of 789s order, it is insufficient to replace 2x 744, 5x 763 and 8x 77E. I suspect the 4 owned 77E will remain in the fleet for medium-long term, and AKL-HKG-LHR will stay with 77E.
xiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 20267 times:
It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively. KIX will lose its direct service from the same time as well. All KIX flight will be via NRT until end of June.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 35, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 20311 times:
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 34): It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively.
Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service? Should make K'man happy for once
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11310 posts, RR: 17 Reply 36, posted (9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 20075 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 25): Still far from sufficient, especially when CX start the A359 on the AKL-HKG route with the new product that is far superior (apart from Y+ at this stage) to NZ's product. You'll lose all your business travellers and actually be left to scrap out the low yielders.
HKG is NZs biggest Asian market and currently has a LHR service. With this LHR service I highly doubt NZ would put a leisure config B789 on HKG-LHR. IMO expect to see either a B772 or B77W on the route till the premium B789s arrive
Kaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 24 Reply 37, posted (9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 20090 times:
Quoting cchan (Reply 33): NZ stated that the North Asia will get the 789 first
So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely? Will the 744s be getting black asses (I suppose we should be happy the fleet is not getting asses the colour of any of Fyfe's shirts)?
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 38, posted (9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 20023 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28): I could imagine the AKL-HKG-LHR requiring a 77W.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 36): With this LHR service I highly doubt NZ would put a leisure config B789 on HKG-LHR. IMO expect to see either a B772 or B77W on the route till the premium B789s arrive
I believe NZ cannot operate the 77W HKG-LHR in the same way they operate the 77E on this route. It has to do with the one-engine out performance over part of the airway that they choose to use from HKG. With the 77W's as they are they would need to fly an alternate (longer) airway with its higher operating and airways fee costs.
If you go into FlightAware you can compare the track of a CX 77W and a NZ 77E. The CX track is longer and much more of it is in Russian airspace which is said to be expensive.
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19985 times:
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 38): I believe NZ cannot operate the 77W HKG-LHR in the same way they operate the 77E on this route. It has to do with the one-engine out performance over part of the airway that they choose to use from HKG. With the 77W's as they are they would need to fly an alternate (longer) airway with its higher operating and airways fee costs.
There's a 77W HKG-LHR 0825/1405 on the 2nd Nov. The elapsed time is the same as for the 77E, but 40 mins earlier to allow it to depart as NZ1 at 1535.
Will be interesting to see if it takes a different track across China and Russia. Mark it on your calendar Hugh.
Mr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 766 posts, RR: 1 Reply 40, posted (9 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 19816 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 31): Often people don't want reinstatement if they feel the working relationship has been damaged beyond repair. It is not actually all that unusual not to seek reinstatement. Whether I felt I had done anything wrong or not I would probably prefer to move on after something like this.
Very true and a good point you raise. What I meant to say wasn't 'I think' there is more at play here, but rather there is more to the story. Brookfields have actually published some information so as it is well in truely in the public domain now I will quote a passage from the link that follows.
"Air New Zealand terminated Mr Foai's employment in July 2009 for misconduct not related to the overpayment issue."
xiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19779 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 35): Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service? Should make K'man happy for once
PVG will be daily from end of Jan 13 with a mixture of 772 and 763. The daily 767 service will revert back to 2x763 and 5x772 from end of Jun 13. I wonder if that means DPS will be back next year.
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 42, posted (9 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 19767 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 35): Hmmm, wonder what happens with the 772 capacity freed up by this change. Isn't it currently 5 times weekly on the PVG service?
Currently 5 weekly PVG 772s, reducing to 2 weekly in November then back to 3 in January when it first goes daily. The 744s are due for C checks next year so they will each be out for 2-3 weeks. SFO sees 3 744s and 2 772s currently showing in April May, they are considering additional flights to North America so maybe it could be daily overall but that is the slowest time of year. Maybe 772s to HNL over winter with HA in the market.
Quoting 777ER (Reply 36): HKG is NZs biggest Asian market and currently has a LHR service.
Is it really the biggest? I'd say most important yes but I would have thought PVG and NRT would have more O&D traffic.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 34):
It has just been announced today from end of March next year, all daily PVG services will be operated by B767 exclusively. KIX will lose its direct service from the same time as well. All KIX flight will be via NRT until end of June.
That seems plausible to me.
Quoting cchan (Reply 33): Counting the number of 789s order, it is insufficient to replace 2x 744, 5x 763 and 8x 77E. I suspect the 4 owned 77E will remain in the fleet for medium-long term, and AKL-HKG-LHR will stay with 77E.
I wouldn't have thought they would have been planning on getting rid of any 772s just yet. 10 789s to replace 2 744s and 5 763s, sure 1 or 2 772s could leave but I'd have my doubts as they are planning some new services with 787s.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 37): So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely?
Unless somewhere like NRT rebounds enough I'd say they will leave the 744s on SFO.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 27): The A359 has been slated to replace the A343 fleet. So unless they decide on swapping aircraft to the 77W or something, AKL will get the A359.
77Ws would still be possible in the interim atleast and AKL could also see the A351 seasonally. This year it looks like both flights are A343s, we may have seen the last CX 744 in AKL.
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 43, posted (9 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 19654 times:
They have just Pulled out of PEK to boost up PVG ' this is basically the gold mine of China' but going all 763's on it is a Hugh risk ! so much will be lost, the product on the 763 for a 12 hr flight is not up to it,!, and have heard from some good sources within PVG that China Eastern are looking very high at flying to AKL and using there flights from LHR to gain the market, something similar to what CZ have done.
NZ should have taken some options up on extra T7's now there playing musical chairs with old chairs!
xiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 677 posts, RR: 0 Reply 44, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 19654 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 43): and have heard from some good sources within PVG that China Eastern are looking very high at flying to AKL and using there flights from LHR to gain the market, something similar to what CZ have done.
It's only a matter of time in my opinion before MU and CA enter the market. Just watch how Chinese airlines are doing to all major ports in Australia.
Take SYD-PVG as an example, QF used to charge nearly $2000 on this route and never seemd to have sales. With the recent mass expansion of Chinese airlines, QF now constantly run promotions for a return fare of ony $800.
I think it would be suiside for NZ to introduce S2S on PVG as some have suggested here.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 45, posted (9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 19660 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 42): 77Ws would still be possible in the interim atleast and AKL could also see the A351 seasonally.
I would love it if they brought their new 3-class 77W (J, Y+, Y) to AKL but they simply don't have enough in hand or on order. They're prioritising and obviously AKL isn't as high yielding as the likes of the European ports CX flies to. Once North America goes all 77W, the new configured planes will push onto LHR and Europe to replace the 744s but it's still insufficient to cover for the A343 fleet.
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 46, posted (9 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 19576 times:
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 44): It's only a matter of time in my opinion before MU and CA enter the market. Just watch how Chinese airlines are doing to all major ports in Australia.
MU seems more likely to me, they do codeshare with QF though through SYD. CA are in star and codeshare with NZ to PVG and also across the Tasman, maybe they will fly PEK-AKL non stop with a 332?
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 45): I would love it if they brought their new 3-class 77W (J, Y+, Y) to AKL but they simply don't have enough in hand or on order. They're prioritising and obviously AKL isn't as high yielding as the likes of the European ports CX flies to.
How many 3 class 77Ws are CX planning on having? They go to YYZ and YVR currently. There are other routes like AMS and JNB which use 744s seasonally and I think could get 3 class 77Ws along with AKL, as you say though they won't have enough to cover the A343s.
For NZ I wonder if they still plan to do some sort of refit with the 772 fleet? Next winter atleast for April through June long haul may look something like
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 47, posted (9 months 3 weeks ago) and read 19546 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 46): How many 3 class 77Ws are CX planning on having?
Don't know.. Currently there are 4 - the ones which have arrived brand new since the product was released.. The retrofitted ones are in 4 class config and they have 8 of those. 744s still operate to LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA, SFO, YVR. The YVR-JFK flight is operated by the 4 class one and the 3 class one only goes to YYZ and some JNB flights at the moment.
Kaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 24 Reply 48, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 19356 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 42): Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 37):
So what happens with SFO - 744s indefinitely?
Unless somewhere like NRT rebounds enough I'd say they will leave the 744s on SFO.
If the 789s all go to Asian routes, as has been announced, how many years will the 744s be kept on SFO - until D check? Assuming the 789s will have a similar hard product to the 77Ws, that will exacerbate product inconsistency.
Has the retrofitting of the 772s been postponed "indefinitely"? The Y+ product is vastly inferior and not worth the premium. I fly through SFO rather than YVR to avoid the 772 and it's infuriating when a 772 gets subbed in to an SFO flight that I booked as a 744. And I've learned over the last couple of years that complaining to NZ customer relations about anything just results in a form letter.
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 49, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 19193 times:
Quoting PA515 (Reply 39): There's a 77W HKG-LHR 0825/1405 on the 2nd Nov. The elapsed time is the same as for the 77E, but 40 mins earlier to allow it to depart as NZ1 at 1535.
Does this mean that a 77E will operate LAX-LHR on that date or are NZ 2 and 38 not operating on that day
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 19183 times:
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 48): If the 789s all go to Asian routes, as has been announced, how many years will the 744s be kept on SFO - until D check? Assuming the 789s will have a similar hard product to the 77Ws, that will exacerbate product inconsistency.
My guess is that the 744 will be the first type to leave the fleet, and SFO gets the 77E.
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 49): Does this mean that a 77E will operate LAX-LHR on that date or are NZ 2 and 38 not operating on that day
NZ2 departing AKL on 1 Nov is a 77E, which will operate NZ38 when the aircraft reaches LHR.
Whatever one might think of the black livery, I do agree that the relentless "rugbyfication" of Air New Zealand is try-hard, and fundamentally irrelevant. While I'm sure there's someone somewhere who bought a ticket on NZ because Ritchie McCaw was on the ads; it's probably in fact the same individual who bought a seat & bag fare to OOL because of the side-splitting, table-thumping hilarity of Ricco.
Here's a thought. Market the airline on the basis of the product. The comfortable seats, the route network, the frequent flier program................... hang on a minute, on second thought, does anyone have the Waikato Chiefs' phone number?
Like I said in the previous thread ;
I like the bottom livery, but have the normal nose, and straighten the black tail rather than curving it (kinda like Qantas' red tail, but black), make the Koru much bigger to really fill the black tail, and make the Koru silver, not white, and have the fern curved (like ferns are)... but I like it much better than the original design.
If Air NZ is insistent on going black, there are much more stimulating options that the livery they've gone with.
gasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 733 posts, RR: 0 Reply 59, posted (9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 18788 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 56): Quoting aerohottie (Reply 55):
If Air NZ is insistent on going black, there are much more stimulating options that the livery they've gone with.
I associate black with funerals.
mariner
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 57): This is true in most cultures I think.
I don't. I hasten to add I think the black idea is ill-conceived and somewhat cheap - but it doesn't elicit any particular morbid imagery for me. IMHO the livery peaked with the teal "Southern Cross" DC-8; with the 1990's Pacific Wave a very close second.
Why is it that Air New Zealand staff have difficulty clearing the airline's customers from the ramp at ZQN as they disembark from the two black A320s? I have seen throngs of Asian tourists clamouring to get a good external shot of the black 320s. The aircraft are quite simply a hit. There is absoluttely no indication of anyone 'not being impressed' with this livery.
That said, these frames are great as 'one offs', as the effect of this livery would wear off if the whole fleet was 'all black'.
What Asian customers choose NZ when they have a choice?
Not many and that's not a dig at NZ that's just the way it is.
Those that come tend to be put on the flight through group discounts or it being the cheapest ticket on offer. Most Cantonese (majority population of Hongkong and for that sake Guangdong province) tend to prefer CX if given a choice. However NZ usually comes in substantially cheaper and thus gains most bookings from the student, VFR crowd while the business crowd chose CX etc.
if Asians ( hmm, not kosher to group together 50% of the worlds population under one banner, Asians, since the cultures are so immensely different) had a choice I think colour of aircraft would come way down on the list. However things such as Asian language capability of staff, Asian food on board etc would be high on the list.
With that said the black livery is dull/boring and I don't understand why NZ would go down this route when their present colours are nice and could be expanded upon instead.
But with the retreat from the pacific, not being the airline of the pacific anymore but only the airline of NZ. I guess with that in mind a change to black might make sense for those thinking black = New Zealand. (ie white/maori kiwis age 30+) That segment of the market isn't growing by the way so you might also ask why they wanna solidify it instead of chasing after the demographic market that really shows growth out of New Zealand but that's another issue altogether.
The first aircraft in the Pacific Wave livery were actually 767-300 ZK-NCM and 737-200 ZK-NAV.
NAV was flown up from CHC under the cover of darkness. NCM's tail was actually one huge decal. The idea was abandoned for subsequent aircraft as the decal started to peel quite badly, necessatating a tail repaint into the teal/blue fade we have to this day.
Kaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 24 Reply 70, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18533 times:
Quoting cchan (Reply 50): My guess is that the 744 will be the first type to leave the fleet, and SFO gets the 77E.
That sucks, if true. Both YVR and SFO would have an outdated product with a Y+ that's absolutely not worth the money, while lower yield Asian routes get shiny new 789s. What are they smoking in the NZ exec suite?
NZ1 From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 2188 posts, RR: 27 Reply 71, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 18543 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 68): What do you think of the change NZ1?
Personally I find it a bit drab and un-inspiring to look at from the photos. May look different in the flesh, but I think an opportunity has been missed to do something special.
aerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 735 posts, RR: 3 Reply 72, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18161 times:
Quoting NZ1 (Reply 71): Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 68):
What do you think of the change NZ1?
Personally I find it a bit drab and un-inspiring to look at from the photos. May look different in the flesh, but I think an opportunity has been missed to do something special.
macilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7 Reply 73, posted (9 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 18028 times:
Can anyone give the date when FedEx first ceased operations to AKL? I think that it was before 2000. FX had taken over the Flying Tiger Line operation in 1989.
texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4204 posts, RR: 53 Reply 75, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 17575 times:
Mount Tongariro erupted last night and an ash cloud is moving east over New Zealand. The ash cloud is located at about 20,000 feet. This won't affect AKL-WLG flights but could cause disruptions to Gisborne and Napier through midday or early afternoon. Airlines have been advised of the ash and potential danger. Will update if more disruptions occur.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
BonzoLab From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 17 posts, RR: 0 Reply 78, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 17458 times:
Hi I'm new but having been following these threads for a while.
Operated around the North Island today. We passed on the upwind side (west) of the VHZ and volcanic sigmet area, no problem at all. Couldn't see Tongariro quite a lot of cloud about the north island. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Certainly a lot less restrictive today than when that volcano went off in Sth Amercia a while back! Cheers
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 17369 times:
The NZ Herald is showing that all NZ Beech are grounded due to hairline fractures being found in the tail of one aircraft during maintainance. Looks like its quite a day for regional flyers.
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
Andrensn From New Zealand, joined Jun 2012, 45 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 17358 times:
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 79): The NZ Herald is showing that all NZ Beech are grounded due to hairline fractures being found in the tail of one aircraft during maintainance. Looks like its quite a day for regional flyers.
ZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 6937 posts, RR: 10 Reply 84, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 16619 times:
Good to hear that some of the 1900s are back in the air. Though from what I gather it seems like quite a few of the fleet are affected and may take a wee while to patch up
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 85, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16589 times:
Just from the press release about TBIT
Quote: Passengers transiting through Los Angeles on NZ1 and NZ2 will no longer be in a small transit lounge. Instead they’ll be able to quickly clear a more efficient customs processing facility
I read this as that all customers will be processed as arriving passengers without any transit facilities - that may well not be the case, but I think it is ambiguous. If it is true then does it point to terminating services and onward longhaul star connections only in LAX long term? A full arrival clearance between NZ2 sectors would certainly get rid of any AKL-LHR traffic very quickly.
quick question, is anyone else cautious about NZs TBIT plans with regard to NZ2 services given that one sector flights are what have been decided are the best plan of attack...??
LAX has ceased to be a good and popular way to Europe for Y class ever since the 2PC allowance was disposed of. Now there is no advantage to go through LAX at all everyone will just go purely on cost and the convenience of the Asian ports, especially with the 77W product as it currently is compared to competitors.
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 88, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 16235 times:
Could the move to TBIT be a sign that the NZ002 will not go through to LHR? - it seems that they are willing to send you on LH, and Swiss via Europe, so 2014 we will see 77W's and 787-9's at LAX then! ?
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 89, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16097 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 88): Could the move to TBIT be a sign that the NZ002 will not go through to LHR?
Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at in the earlier post....
A big gesture/gimmick (the change of terminals and Carte Blanche on a new Star Lounge) housing a commercial 'trojan horse'. Given the recent track record with both PE & Skycouches glitz and glamour disguising the fact that there was less seat pitch in U and 10 abreast in Y, as well as the other 'trojan horses' within the airpoints scheme and Seats to suit products I'm sure you can understand my cynicism..
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 90, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16099 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 88): so 2014 we will see 77W's and 787-9's at LAX then! ?
772 would sound more likely than the 789 to LAX.. As long as they get the retrofitting of the 772 underway post haste. But if NZ1/2 did end up going through somewhere like SFO would they send just the 77W on AKL-SFO-LHR or have NZ7/8 still operating beside it?
aotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0 Reply 91, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15995 times:
I have an idea.
Perhaps we could consider operating two New Zealand Aviation threads.
One could be named the 'Air New Zealand Cynics thread'. This thread could be where the usual bunch of ANZ malcontents hang out. They could support each others slightly tyesome 'bash everything ANZ does or apparently might be considering doing' view of the world....
Everyone else could then continue to contribute to the NZ Aviation thread and no doubt it could then once again become a place of balanced opinion and debate.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against anti NZ comment. Just the same old contributors with the same old opinions.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 93, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15945 times:
Quoting aotearoa (Reply 91): Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against anti NZ comment. Just the same old contributors with the same old opinions.
You presume that any scepticism is automatically 'anti NZ' comment, merely observations based on their individual professional and personal experiences and so there cannot be right or wrong, and so as NZ as a carrier being such a dominant feature of the NZL aviation landscape this is the right place to post it. Regardless of whether it is fact, conjecture or opinion - we are all adults capable of filtering information and processing what we want to. You have to admit that some of the "scepticism" expressed in previous forums did eventuate in reality later on down the track.
If one takes NZ related opinions out of this forum they would not have made it through 118 rounds of 200+ posts, nor would they move/ be updated enough to warrant continuing long term. The balance of the forum comes from having both cheerleaders and naysayers, neutral observers, employees, share holders and others with nothing much to say on the matter. Often the protagonists or proponents are the catalyst to the most lively and interesting discussions.
It strikes me (and has done so since thread one)that all of us who participate (whatever our backgrounds) wish NZ the very best, and actually really want to see it succeed as so many of us had our first flying experiences and best aviation experiences with NZ over half a century of flying and thousands of dollars spent over a number of years.
The fact that we continue to comment shows how strongly and passionately we as people feel about the airline, even though some are disillusioned, others have been treated brilliantly, others poorly and others are just concerned with the current business model. That kind of passion for an airline is something that an airline cannot buy, it is something built up over a long period of time and is something NZ and their employees fought hard for in difficult circumstances.
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 95, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15828 times:
Quoting zkojq (Reply 92): I know that this isn't civil aviation, but does anyone know which Air Force the Boeing C-17 that flew into Whenuapai yesterday evening belongs to?
A USAF Boeing C-17 flew into CHC about midnight last night with the bodies of the two dead N.Z. servicemen killed in Afghanistan. I wonder if the earlier one you speak of was the flight that brought back their injured comrades for medical treatment.
haggis73 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2010, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 15522 times:
Quoting WSTAKL,reply=64
[quote=zkojq (Reply 92): I know that this isn't civil aviation, but does anyone know which Air Force the Boeing C-17 that flew into Whenuapai yesterday evening belongs to?
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 97, posted (9 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14965 times:
A nice good long read this morning,
''Air NZ flies through turbulent times''
The Kiwi airline is not the cheapest but competes at home and abroad.
Bruising airline competition and the high New Zealand dollar are making an international holiday more affordable, especially for those willing to travel via Australia.
Fares are being driven down by Middle Eastern carriers like Emirates and Etihad, as well as Asian airlines such as China Southern and budget carrier AirAsia X flooding into Australia and New Zealand to feed their rapidly expanding global networks.
Return fares provided by House of Travel for flights from Wellington to London in October cost $3151 on Air New Zealand, but just $2967 on Singapore Airlines, while Emirates advertises fares via Australia and Dubai for $2860. All options include a domestic leg to Auckland or Christchurch to catch the international service. Those leaving from Auckland or Christchurch without flying domestically will pay a slightly lower fare.
Domestic fares have also been given a shake-up with Air New Zealand slashing the cost of flying between the main centres.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe says government job losses in Wellington and the nation's tenuous economic recovery are weighing on domestic network.
But last month it was forced to reduce domestic fares in some cases by nearly a third to stimulate flagging demand ahead of the arrival of bigger Airbus A320 domestic jets and its increasingly aggressive low cost competitor, Jetstar.
macilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7 Reply 100, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14124 times:
HLZ is to lose its international air services. Although not complete yet, building an expressway/motorway from Hamilton to AKL will not have helped. The airport has just made the following media release:
Virgin Australia to suspend Brisbane-Hamilton flights
Hamilton, New Zealand – Hamilton Airport announced today it has been advised by Virgin Australia that the airline will cease operating its Brisbane-Hamilton route after 27 October 2012 due to a lack of demand by travellers.
Virgin Australia (previously operating as Pacific Blue) began offering a Brisbane-Hamilton service in September 2009 and flies the route three times each week.
Virgin Australia representative, Mark Pitt, said, “Despite our support and our positive relationship with Hamilton Airport over the past three years, demand for this service has deteriorated and the service is now financially unsustainable for us.
“Therefore, after careful consideration, we have made the decision to cease operating this service. Our last flight will be on 27 October.”
Hamilton Airport CEO, Chris Doak, said the decision by Virgin Australia was disappointing for the region.
"Virgin Australia has supported the region with their aircraft and has worked hard to connect with the local traveller. This was a decision that came down to passenger numbers. There just weren’t enough people using Virgin Australia’s services," he said.
Hamilton Airport Chairman, John Birch, said the airport is in a viable financial position and, despite the decision by Virgin Australia, the airport will continue to run profitably going forward given it is a diversified operation.
“We’ve spent the last few years restructuring and paying back debt. Additionally we are now seeing increased diversification of revenue from selling and leasing land - managed through the airport’s property joint venture Titanium Park. The airport is a multi-faceted business, which helps protect us from exactly this scenario.”
“We are operating profitably and, despite the setback of the suspension of Virgin Australia services, we expect to remain profitable," he said.
-ENDS-
Wonder if a certain Hamilton counselor will announce a boycot VA campaign like what happened when NZ stopped its international services out of HLZ? Wonder what VA will use the extra B738 for?
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11310 posts, RR: 17 Reply 102, posted (9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 14176 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Another AKL-SYD flight was forced to turn back this morning after problems with its air con caused the pilots to be concerned with fuel levels. The same flight number was also forced to turn back several days ago after fumes were smelt in the cabin.
alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2091 posts, RR: 1 Reply 104, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13547 times:
So, wonder how long Dunedin will hang on to its Trans Tasman services? HLZ is possibly just a bit too close to
Auckland compared with the five hour drive between Dunedin and CHC. Pacific Blue did promise so much when they came to NZ as an independent operator. They found Trans Tasman a very hard market to make work. It is frustrating that the day they brought over an E-190 to demonstrate, they had a bird strike at Hamilton, so we never saw the plane at Dunedin. But, even on a joint operation, there must be some Trans Tasman city pairs where a plane the size of the E-190 would be the right size. Dunedin, Hamilton, perhaps even Palmerston North and Rotorua could be well served by a plane that is the right size.
I saw the TV One report about the Olympic Team arriving home. If TVOne showed the right aircraft, it looks as though they flew home through HKG. ( Well it was not the All Black 77W). I was living in Australia at the time of the Athens 2004 Games. Qantas provided two special 747 flights to bring the Australian athletes home, since Qantas has stopped flying regular services to ATH long before then. Athletes who had won Gold medals were seated in First Class and so on. Has any one heard how AirNZ organised the seating? Last minute change of seating for Valerie Adams maybe. Some of the larger athletes may have had trouble fitting into the Premium Economy seats (long legs).
Anyway, I hope the AirNZ crew enjoyed hosting the NZ athletes. Now they can look forward to flying to Glasgow for Commonwealth Games 2014. If the NZ team flies EK, they can fly all the way to GLA without changing at LHR.
IndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 105, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13542 times:
^^ Is there demand for more Trans Tasman routes? Honestly, I don't think there is.
The ones that already operate aren't exactly overflowing with demand, and without a move to move capacity from the main hubs to secondary cities, there really is a lack of demand to sustain these flights.
Its sad to see many of these routes come and go though. Oh the days of Kiwi and Freedom Air
alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2091 posts, RR: 1 Reply 106, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13492 times:
This is where One Market would make a difference. SmartGates at the larger airports are not the answer, they just allow faster processing in the biggest markets. One Market would allow very small Kiwi cities to have a weekly service to the Gold Coast, in the same way that some smaller US cities have once or twice weekly flights to holiday spots on Allegiant. The flights might only be very short seasons over holiday periods - this is how buses operate. Some special interest charters for concerts or sports events or even budget ski tours as one person on this forum wanted to do.
I think maybe one of the problems is that there are not enough airlines. AirNZ out of DUD is competing against AirNZ out of CHC, where AirNZ has to match several other airlines. I wonder how many people from HLZ drove up to Auckland to get a lower fare than they could get from HLZ? It was frustrating for management at Dunedin Airport, when staff who worked at the airport were driving up to CHC to get a cheaper fare than they could get from their local airport. (Not just a New Zealand thing - some Welsh people could fly to Florida from Cardiff, but they could fly for less from London, and that included one night in a hotel at Gatwick Airport)
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 107, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13502 times:
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 105): Is there demand for more Trans Tasman routes? Honestly, I don't think there is.
Nope. There are cities in New Zealand that would barely even qualify for domestic flights overseas, let alone international. The population is just not there, nor is the demand.
IndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2403 posts, RR: 0 Reply 108, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13442 times:
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 106): I think maybe one of the problems is that there are not enough airlines. AirNZ out of DUD is competing against AirNZ out of CHC, where AirNZ has to match several other airlines. I wonder how many people from HLZ drove up to Auckland to get a lower fare than they could get from HLZ? It was frustrating for management at Dunedin Airport, when staff who worked at the airport were driving up to CHC to get a cheaper fare than they could get from their local airport. (Not just a New Zealand thing - some Welsh people could fly to Florida from Cardiff, but they could fly for less from London, and that included one night in a hotel at Gatwick Airport)
Supply and demand. The more capacity going into the main hubs, the niche routes will suffer.
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 107): Nope. There are cities in New Zealand that would barely even qualify for domestic flights overseas, let alone international. The population is just not there, nor is the demand.
+1.
For a country the size f NZ, it has enough airports and service to satisfy demand. Its likely punching above its weight already.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 109, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13429 times:
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 104): But, even on a joint operation, there must be some Trans Tasman city pairs where a plane the size of the E-190 would be the right size. Dunedin, Hamilton, perhaps even Palmerston North and Rotorua could be well served by a plane that is the right size.
The trouble is, the E190 doesn't work financially in a low fare/high fuel cost environment.
The study done by Republic in 2011 - with Frontier's average fares and with oil at an average of $110 - showed the break even load factor (BELF) of the E190 was about 98%.
As a comparison, the BELF of the A319 was about 86% and the A320 BELF was 82%,
Obviously, the price of fuel can be off-set by higher fares - but that defeats the low fare airline.
Allegiant, in the US, has shown that it can be done but it requires outside the box thinking. Allegiant has minimal debt repayments on its aircraft - it buys dirt cheap MD80's (and now 757s), so it's not running big mortgage costs. It doesn't hedge fuel, but it flies very little on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, when traffic is likely to be lighter. It is ruthless - it only flies two or three times a week (to start) and if a route doesn't hit an average 90% load factor it'll drop it. The airline relies heavily on ancillary charges and, above all, hotel bookings - it is actually a package tour company.
Could it work here? Perhaps. A small fleet of cheap aircraft could probably operate profitably from a few of the smaller cities to very limited destinations in Oz - probably only one, say, OOL - because it wouldn't want to split the home city markets.
But it would require ruthless managers and it would be up against Air NZ - whose attitude would probably be kill, kill, kill.
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 110, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13419 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 95): A USAF Boeing C-17 flew into CHC about midnight last night with the bodies of the two dead N.Z. servicemen killed in Afghanistan. I wonder if the earlier one you speak of was the flight that brought back their injured comrades for medical treatment.
Quoting haggis73 (Reply 96): RAAF C17 A41-208 as per Mike Condon's website
Thankyou.
Quoting alangirvan (Reply 104): I saw the TV One report about the Olympic Team arriving home. If TVOne showed the right aircraft, it looks as though they flew home through HKG. ( Well it was not the All Black 77W). I was living in Australia at the time of the Athens 2004 Games. Qantas provided two special 747 flights to bring the Australian athletes home, since Qantas has stopped flying regular services to ATH long before then. Athletes who had won Gold medals were seated in First Class and so on. Has any one heard how AirNZ organised the seating? Last minute change of seating for Valerie Adams maybe. Some of the larger athletes may have had trouble fitting into the Premium Economy seats (long legs).
According to the New Zealand Olympic Team's facebook page: most athletes, coaches and officials arrived home on NZ38 and SQ321. SQ321 is the flight between London and Singapore; not sure which flight they will have flown from Singapore to Auckland.
NZ39 was operated by ZK-OKF and SQ321 was operated by 9V-SKN.
alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2091 posts, RR: 1 Reply 114, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12957 times:
My recent trip to Australia was my first visit since I left in early 2006. The routing was via AKL, which turned out to be hardly more expensive than flying via CHC. Thanks to a special offer during the week that I booked, I got into Works Deluxe for the normal cost of a Works fare. Works Deluxe does not get you much more than a normal Works fare, but it does get you into the lounges along the way. All the lounges were fine, though a bit crowded. According to the deal I should have received priority check in, but at Dunedin, the Priority Check in Counter was not staffed. Then, for the A320 sector AKL-MEL, there was a bottle of water and paper in the seat pocket, and I could have had more checked bags. I had a ride from MEL to Canberra in a Virgin 738. Snack provided, not quite as large as you would receive on an AirNZ domestic flight. On Canberra Sydney I had my first ride in an E-190. A very short sector for a jet. Once again a small, but nice snack. The Virgin transfer to the International Terminal at SYD is not quite as slick as the Qantas service, but it is OK. It is a bit of a walk to find the Koru Club at Sydney Airport. It was a 777-200, with an IFE that did not work at my seat. But nice meal. Very busy domestic koru club at AKL on a Friday evening. The Cheese platter that is supposed to be one of the treats in Works Deluxe on Trans Tasman is the same Cheese platter that is offered to everyone between Auckland and Dunedin. Perhaps the Works Deluxe passengers should get something more gourmet?
For me, the lounge access did give me good value, since I paid for my tickets during a sale. I liked the Inflight service on all sectors. I enjoyed the short sectors on Virgin, as well, though at the moment, I cannot do advance seat selection, and Works Deluxe is not available on their flights. It would be nice if a Works Deluxe passenger could have Guest Access to Virgin lounges when using Virgin domestic Australian flights.
Works deluxe is basically just a watered down version IMO of Business on an A320 (minus the business seats) but with an economy offering. If you wanted a better service on the B777 then maybe you should have splashed out on a J fare? With the Deluxe fare you do get an empty seat beside you which is an added perk. The Works Deluxe is basically aimed at A320 business pax wanting more space IMO
alangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2091 posts, RR: 1 Reply 117, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12887 times:
I was quite happy with the space on the 777, but the IFE was not as easy to use as the same equipment on the A320 a couple of weeks earlier. And that was after a Staff member had rebooted the system for me.
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 119, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 12595 times:
According to their facebook page, it looks like Air New Zealand has a hobbit based safety video on the way - due to 'premier' in November. I hope it is better than their last one.
Anything will *fingers crossed* be better then their current one. I was on one of the first flights in July that had the new safety video and many pax (from what could be heard afterwards) weren't impressed with the video.
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 121, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12487 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 120): Anything will *fingers crossed* be better then their current one. I was on one of the first flights in July that had the new safety video and many pax (from what could be heard afterwards) weren't impressed with the video.
Watched the new safety video on my RAR flights in July. The video is basically a mess, and does not convey the safety messages clearly. Also there are too many other unnecessary things to distract the audience from the main points.
Thoughts? I wonder what this (or similar) will look like on those new A330s? If it's just brown I guess they thought NZ's new livery was the benchmark?
I agree, a bit disappointing really coming from the colourful yellow orange magenta and blue. I've heard one person discribe the logo as looking like an eye, while another recons it looks like an a##hole. I guess well have to see the full livery.
On another note, heard a song I like and have been looking for playing on this months Air NZ A320 IFE (playing on the default radio station when in menu and flight map mode etc) but wasn't able to find the same song in the radio selection. Anyone know the default IFE background radio station name? The cabin crew didn't seem to know.
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 125, posted (9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11587 times:
Quoting LoveNZ (Reply 122): Thoughts? I wonder what this (or similar) will look like on those new A330s? If it's just brown I guess they thought NZ's new livery was the benchmark?
I'm interviewing the FJ Chief Exec tomorrow about this and will post a link to the article.
HLZCPH From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 123 posts, RR: 0 Reply 126, posted (9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11499 times:
I read elsewhere that an Emirates 77W (A6-ECF) went tech in AKL after arriving from MEL on the 16/8. Does anyone know any details regarding this? Cheers.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 127, posted (9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11592 times:
Quoting HLZCPH (Reply 126): I read elsewhere that an Emirates 77W (A6-ECF) went tech in AKL after arriving from MEL on the 16/8. Does anyone know any details regarding this? Cheers.
All I know is that it stayed here for 3 days and left with 20 POB.
b767erwinglets From New Zealand, joined Nov 2009, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 130, posted (9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11210 times:
Anyone know the rego for NZ123 tomorrow (22/08) AKL MEL???? Think it comes in as NZ001 from LHR/LAX and carries onto MEL. I have a nice J class seat on her, first time on the 77W in J class on NZ.........Ta....
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 131, posted (9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11173 times:
Quoting b767erwinglets (Reply 130): Anyone know the rego for NZ123 tomorrow (22/08) AKL MEL???? Think it comes in as NZ001 from LHR/LAX and carries onto MEL. I have a nice J class seat on her, first time on the 77W in J class on NZ.........Ta....
Last I checked it was a 772. I think ZKOKE. Still possible for aircraft change though
b767erwinglets From New Zealand, joined Nov 2009, 25 posts, RR: 0 Reply 132, posted (9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 11162 times:
Can't be, still showing as a 777-300 in reservations and seat map allows seating for premium pax in economy class ....... Hope it's not the 772.... Such a disappointment if so........
Why would it be a disappointment if its a B772? I've flowen J on a B772 to/from AKL and LAX and found the seat to be very comfy for a 12-13 hour flight. Would it be a disappointment cause your wanting the B773 and not based on seats?
motorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 10 Reply 134, posted (9 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10935 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 125): Quoting LoveNZ (Reply 122):
Thoughts? I wonder what this (or similar) will look like on those new A330s? If it's just brown I guess they thought NZ's new livery was the benchmark?
I'm interviewing the FJ Chief Exec tomorrow about this and will post a link to the article.
Okay, Pflieger ended up in transit so I spoke to Comm's Manager Shane Hussein. The brown background is a very traditional brown used for dying Masi (the Fijian name for tapa). This colour was chosen as a background because they wish to achieve visual cut-through for their logo both as a corporate communication device in signage/stationery/web/electronic etc as well as to be able to 'own' a colour and look. They want their planes to be distinctive and immediately recognisable as 'Fiji' in a similar way to how TN has the recognition for Tahiti and French Poly. More on the brand roll-out, and how the device is going to be used, on 10 October - Fiji Day.
Other key things with A330/Fiji Airways launch -
* airline yet to decide on the leisure business model - poss seats to suit type offering
* Tabua class seats will have angled lie flat
* IFE in every seat-back
* interiors to be styled round new brand look and feel
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 135, posted (9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10744 times:
Quoting motorhussy (Reply 134): The brown background is a very traditional brown used for dying Masi (the Fijian name for tapa).
I was going to start calling it the Tapa cloth plane too (same context, though wrong language haha).. Now here's the wait to see how much of the plane is going to be white and how much will be brown..
Somehow I don't think brown is going to be nearly as attractive/memorable as TN's great livery.
You were completely right. It was ZK-OKE. Full apology to you....Wont every question you again....:@)
However I was disappointed to be very honest in the J cabin on the B772. The aircraft interior in the J class cabin was in terrible condition. For example the carpets were worn thru in the aisles, the seat itself wasn't too bad comfort wise, but the aircraft was dirty and worn out on the inside. There were marks all over the seats and ottoman. The dirt (yes actual dirt) was even noted by the crew. One of the male crew said they prefer to operate the B77W as its in much better condition. The paint on the back of the seat (in front of you) was peeling away and looked really grotty...
Air NZ really needs to look at the B772 aircraft, specifically J cabin as it was were looking very very tired. I have flown recently Premium Economy on the B77W aircraft and was very pleasantly surprised (after reading some of the negativity on airliners.net) so was looking forward to J class on the B77W.
I also recently flew in the sky/sleeper seats AKL - LAX recently and was very pleased as well (Although I am tall so the legs did come out into the aisle a bit. I also recently (4 months ago approx) flew SFO - AKL on a B772 and LAX - AKL B772 in premium and didn't have any complaints....
To be frankly honest, I was more comfortable in the Premium Economy on the B77W and the sky/sleeper seats on the B77W that I was in J class on the B772 (Yes this was a paid for seat, not points or upgrades)... I was very disappointed in the aircraft today.
Having said this however the cabin crew were excellent, which is generally all ever receive from NZ crew... Always pleasant and accommodating..... IMHO.
Refer to my post above.. The B772 in J class was terrible.... Sorry, old and worn out in the inside. Not what I would have expected of J class.
The B77W is a FAR superior product that the B772 in my experience.. I will say I also fly the A320 across the ditch as well (wont fly V Australia B738 as they are terrible), but Air NZ A320 across the ditch are very good too....
If its a B772, I will avoid it in J class.... stick with Premium or Economy... Even long haul...
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2980 posts, RR: 6 Reply 139, posted (9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10641 times:
I recently flew Business Premier on both the 777-200ER and the 777-300ER.
To be honest, now that the catering has been dumbed down on the 77W I can barely tell the difference between the two products other than by the colour of the seats. The seats are identical apart from one having touchscreen IFE and the other being remote controlled. The catering is virtually the same, the wine is the same, the crews are the same, the cabin width is the same.
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 141, posted (9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 10332 times:
Quoting NZ1 (Reply 140): There is a plan in place though I am not able to divulge what or when just yet. A lot will depend on the economic outlook over the next wee while.
This sounds very much as if the business is being managed with a focus on results for the next reporting period . A sure fire recipe for disaster over the long term. If management is not careful they will have very little to sell off to investors.
gasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 733 posts, RR: 0 Reply 143, posted (9 months 7 hours ago) and read 9832 times:
Quoting b767erwinglets (Reply 137): Refer to my post above.. The B772 in J class was terrible.... Sorry, old and worn out in the inside. Not what I would have expected of J class.
Well, everything is relative. The 772 cabins are getting a bit worn and tired, but things haven't reached an unacceptable point (yet). I recently flew F class on Thai between BKK and CDG - this was on a leased 77W from Jet Air. On both aircraft (different frames) the cabin upholstery was in worse condition than anything I have ever experienced in my 40 years of flying. Dirty, worn, and literally in tatters.
Quoting b767erwinglets (Reply 137): If its a B772, I will avoid it in J class.... stick with Premium or Economy... Even long haul...
Must disagree with you here. You'd have to be crazy to spend hard earned cash on the 772 Y+ product. I did it once (and that was when the aircraft were new) - I may as well have just flown Y, and donated the extra $2000 or so to charity.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1527 posts, RR: 2 Reply 144, posted (8 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9251 times:
I was looking at Departed Flights tonight when I saw that NZ had five flights a week LHR-LAX in October 1996, of which four were 742s, and one a 763. The records are supposedly from the OAG of the time. I was not aware that the 763s had regularly served LHR - can anyone confirm this?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 145, posted (8 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9241 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 144): I was looking at Departed Flights tonight when I saw that NZ had five flights a week LHR-LAX in October 1996, of which four were 742s, and one a 763. The records are supposedly from the OAG of the time. I was not aware that the 763s had regularly served LHR - can anyone confirm this?
Strange. I can only confirm the Air NZ Timetable has five 742's LHR-LAX 4 Oct to 31 Oct 1996, 1620/1930 Mo Th Fr Sa Su 747. If for some reason there was going to be a brief aircraft shortage, I would expect a SIN, HKG, NRT, or PPT 742 to be replaced with a 767. The OAG was not infallible, only as good as the information supplied or entered.
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1527 posts, RR: 2 Reply 146, posted (8 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 9034 times:
Quoting PA515 (Reply 145): Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 144):
I was looking at Departed Flights tonight when I saw that NZ had five flights a week LHR-LAX in October 1996, of which four were 742s, and one a 763. The records are supposedly from the OAG of the time. I was not aware that the 763s had regularly served LHR - can anyone confirm this?
Strange. I can only confirm the Air NZ Timetable has five 742's LHR-LAX 4 Oct to 31 Oct 1996, 1620/1930 Mo Th Fr Sa Su 747. If for some reason there was going to be a brief aircraft shortage, I would expect a SIN, HKG, NRT, or PPT 742 to be replaced with a 767. The OAG was not infallible, only as good as the information supplied or entered.
A postcript to this - Airline Routes today has a history of NZ's London operations, being the 30th anniversary, and it agrees with you. Interestingly, it DOES show a one-off NZ2 flight AKL-NAN-LAX-LHR on 3 Oct 2000, operated by 767.
[Edited 2012-08-26 18:02:46]
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 147, posted (8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 9034 times:
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 146): Interestingly, it DOES show a one-off NZ2 flight AKL-NAN-LAX-LHR on 3 Oct 2000, operated by 767.
3 Oct 2000 was 2 days after the Closing Ceremony of the Sydney Olympics so I wouldn't be surprised if a 744 was used for some kind of charter/ac swap ex-SYD as NZ/AN were the official sponsors.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 150, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8647 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 149): Lets hope Thursday is not a bad day for numbers hope they don't go -NZ$ and end the year in the red like a lot of other airlines have.
the Herald said yesterday that according to some aviation analysts they were predicting between 45-63 Million profit, but that the international longhaul still losing money and being propped up by the shorthaul.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2980 posts, RR: 6 Reply 152, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8607 times:
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 150): they were predicting between 45-63 Million profit, but that the international longhaul still losing money and being propped up by the shorthaul
It's unfortunate that the company continues to retain as proprietary information details about:
1. The financial performance of North America services.
2. The performance of NZ1/2 AKL-LAX-LHR
3. The performance of AKL-HKG-LHR
4. The performance of China services
5. The performance of Japan services.
My belief for a long time has been that North America and AKL-LAX-LHR are viable, especially if there is smart variation in capacity on a seasonal basis.
I also believe that PVG is intrinsically unprofitable.
But I also believe that the outgoing NZ management has an aversion to London and affinity for China which will see HKG-LHR and LAX-LHR dropped at the first possible opportunity.
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 153, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8581 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 152): But I also believe that the outgoing NZ management has an aversion to London and affinity for China which will see HKG-LHR and LAX-LHR dropped at the first possible opportunity.
So are you suggesting the incoming management is going to rubber stamp the outgoing managements proclivities?
I think you might find that M. Luzon may be inclined to place his stamp on the company by making some moves that are a change in direction from those of his predecessor. In my view he needs to do that to signal to the customers and staff that a new era has commenced. What M.Luzon should do would be an interesting topic for those who like looking into the future to weigh in on. A word of caution, the reality of the Jet Stars in the business and that NZL is relatively poor needs to be in the back of everyone's minds!!
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 155, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8555 times:
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 153): What M.Luzon should do would be an interesting topic for those who like looking into the future to weigh in on.
I am going to lead off... research from where in the USA (SFO/LAX/IAH ) a service should be started to MAN. If it is SFO/LAX put a dedicated 789 on the route set up at about 260-seats and feed it with the existing services out of AKL. If it is IAH then run the 789 AKL-IAH-MAN with its 260-seats. Be sure the product standard is uniform across the fleet.This is important !! If it is determined that this market needs to be more upscale than a LCC then introduce some rows of 9-across in Y on the 77W to assure the uniform product standard. For Asia increase the seating of three 77E's to ~330 seats to reduce the ASK cost.
My 10 cents worth.
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 156, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8509 times:
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 155): For Asia increase the seating of three 77E's to ~330 seats to reduce the ASK cost.
I understand what you are saying, but I question whether NZ has the scale to be able to run two different configurations of 77Es. I think it would wreak havoc with utilisation.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
DavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1527 posts, RR: 2 Reply 158, posted (8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8312 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 152): It's unfortunate that the company continues to retain as proprietary information details about:
1. The financial performance of North America services.
2. The performance of NZ1/2 AKL-LAX-LHR
3. The performance of AKL-HKG-LHR
4. The performance of China services
5. The performance of Japan services.
Sorry, I don't understand why it's "unfortunate", as you suggest. Surely this is all commercially very valuable information that NZ's competitors would love to get their hands on, and they're perfectly entitled to keep it close. In fact, one could argue that they would be stupid to release it just to satisfy the whims of the av-geeks on these boards. While you and I have lots of opinions about what NZ could and should do, I'm quite comfortable that my views need to be tempered by the reality of information on a raft of aspects of the operation which will undoubtedly be germane to their decisions - and which I will never get to see. That's just business . . .
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 161, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8151 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 160):
David, which competitors are those?
These are all monopoly routes.
AKL features on a number of airline's 'wish lists' already (given the right conditions), the last thing NZ is going to want is add competition - they'd end up snowed under with competition like QF rather quickly... I agree with David on this, That is just business, to protect your own interests first and foremost. Some of the information you want disclosed could be the difference between a competitor taking an educated punt or just leaving a small market to the home carrier.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 156): I understand what you are saying, but I question whether NZ has the scale to be able to run two different configurations of 77Es. I think it would wreak havoc with utilisation.
Or even better they could kick QF while they're down, take up a number of the recently cancelled 787 slots and offer a 9 abreast 788 solely for the asian routes, leaving the 789/77W for North American ops and growth management. Then the 763/77E fleet can be disposed of and fleet consolidated further/faster. The scale of a dozen 788s to replace 2 smaller fleets would allow several customised configs to be designed.
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 162, posted (8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8071 times:
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 161): Or even better they could kick QF while they're down, take up a number of the recently cancelled 787 slots and offer a 9 abreast 788 solely for the asian routes, leaving the 789/77W for North American ops and growth management. Then the 763/77E fleet can be disposed of and fleet consolidated further/faster. The scale of a dozen 788s to replace 2 smaller fleets would allow several customised configs to be designed.
Smart thinking! Boeing updated their ACAP sheets on the 787 series last month and now provide cabin cross section dimensions. The 787 at 9-across is marginally better than the 10- across 77W. 17.2" cushion with 18" aisle versus 17" and 17" aisle. The quote of Kerry Reeves on 260 odd seats on the 789 suggests 8-across with about a 19" seat cushion. This is almost too much to hope for!
.
Statistically this puts the average 77W load at ~300-seats. There is probably no way these can be replaced while they have good value except by increased frequency. But on the face of it, the 77E's could be replaced on the HKG-LHR route if all they are averaging is 236 seats per flight.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2980 posts, RR: 6 Reply 163, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7785 times:
Anyone fancy a guess as to the survival of key routes after the results announcement tomorrow?
I think that there are three routes at risk.
These are both sectors to London - HKG-LHR due to variable performance, and LAX-LHR because it will be impossible to operate economically after the departure from T2 to TBIT anyway. And Rob Fyfe's feelings about the UK are well-known to most people at the airline.
The other route at risk in my opinion is AKL-HNL. The Australian example shows a rapid increase in demand, but it will be interesting to see whether Air NZ has the stomach to persist with a high-fare LCC model when Hawaiian Airlines is now competing with a lower-fare all-inclusive model. It's a blatant mismatch with Seats To Suit, and if Air NZ tries to maintain that pricing model against a cheaper competitor with more inclusions it could turn into a bloodbath for Air NZ.
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 164, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7641 times:
well something would have to give if they want to open up another US port, maybe axe PVG? there already putting the 763 on it, re-enter when they have the 300 seat 789's!,
Looking at Japan this could do with some playing around - but we know they will never give that up!
However if the HKG-LHR goes then so would a few jobs too!
there's is not much more they can really chop or NZ is just going to become a short haul airline - is this what they want! (Air ASIA NZ?)
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 165, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7621 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 163): These are both sectors to London - HKG-LHR due to variable performance, and LAX-LHR because it will be impossible to operate economically after the departure from T2 to TBIT anyway. And Rob Fyfe's feelings about the UK are well-known to most people at the airline.
These probably won't go before KIX. If NZ wants to axe LHR, they would have announced it earlier this year when they announced other cut backs.
Kaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 24 Reply 166, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7499 times:
Does anyone know how to book AKL-YOW-AKL on the NZ website? If I try to do it on the Canadian site (where YOW is selectable), it throws me to the NZ site where YOW comes up as an unknown airport.
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 167, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7311 times:
ok so the number's are out, better then what was expected really in such a hard time
Air NZ Expects to More Than Double Earnings in 2013
8:30am, 30 Aug 2012 | FLLYR
Air New Zealand Expects to More Than Double Earnings in 2013
Air New Zealand is forecasting a strong improvement in financial performance after announcing normalised earnings before taxation* for the 2012 financial year of $91 million, up 21 percent on 2011. Statutory net profit after taxation was $71 million, down 12 percent on 2011.
Chairman John Palmer says Air New Zealand is now well positioned to continue the growth trajectory that it was pursuing until 2008 when the world was gripped by financial crisis.
“We have come through some tough times and the worst impacts of natural disasters like the Christchurch earthquake and tsunami in Japan are behind us, which means growth opportunities are no longer suppressed. We view the future with optimism and are pursuing a clear strategy to strengthen our Australasian operations, while being ahead of target in restructuring our International long haul network to improve financial performance,” Mr Palmer says.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 168, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7285 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 167): ok so the number's are out, better then what was expected really in such a hard time
Yes it is a good effort considering QF & VAs profits in particular. Of course I am never 100% content (in all aspects of life) so I think there is still plenty for to be done by NZ ( a feeling shared by management I'm sure)but it did exceed expectations.
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 166): Does anyone know how to book AKL-YOW-AKL on the NZ website?
I couldn't make it work, but it is possible to buy NZ AKL-YOW ticket on expedia.co.nz...
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 169, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7266 times:
interesting read in the herald tho regarding the news;
The shares climbed 8.4 per cent to 97 cents, the highest level since November 30,
''"New Zealand's long-haul travel has been strengthening during this period, and we expect that to continue through to Europe," chief executive Rob Fyfe told a media briefing.
Fyfe said a slowing Chinese economy is becoming more apparent which will have an impact on flights into and out of the world's most populous nation, (trying the 763 on PVG for a start) ! and Air New Zealand has "built that in to our expectations for our forward plan."
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 170, posted (8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7012 times:
Well I spoke too soon, seems NZ are giving the Japan route a break for a couple of months,
''Air New Zealand Temporary Suspends Osaka Service April – June 2013''
NZ will temporary suspending Auckland – Osaka Kansai service, Planned suspension period is scheduled from 31MAR13 to 15MAY13 and from 24MAY13 till 09JUN13.
The airline on 16MAY13 and 23MAY13 will operate one flight each to Osaka. Schedule:
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0 Reply 172, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6486 times:
Any thoughts on how the proposed code share between QF and EK might affect Tasman routes? Where would competition increase or decrease?
Could we see QF dropping a flight that operates at times close to an EK Tasman sector so that it could open a new route, like WLG-BNE or AKL-ADL?
Or would it be more likely that QF keeps its schedule, but EK changes the Aust transit point, eg AKL-PER? Would it increase the likelihood of a nonstop service from DXB to NZ?
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1701 posts, RR: 2 Reply 173, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6473 times:
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Any thoughts on how the proposed code share between QF and EK might affect Tasman routes? Where would competition increase or decrease?
My guess is that they won't codeshare on trans Tasman flights.
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0 Reply 174, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6466 times:
"My guess is that they won't codeshare on trans Tasman flights."
I have read they intend to. It makes sense to codeshare on the Tasman as EK has flights operating throughout the day which connect with QF's Tasman services. This presumes the UAE-NZ ASA allows third country code shares.
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
NZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 175, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6465 times:
Okay so the results are out, we can look at QF and VA for comparisons.
NZ has grown and has added new routes DPS, MRO
PEK has gone but only to focus on PVG
DJ Alliance under way with still loads of cheap seats on the market
More options for customers - WLG-SYD twice daily at different ends of the day
Loyalty changes, some good some bad all equals a better preforming loyalty programme.
There is still plenty more to come this year.
So where have the critics gone? NZ was doing it all wrong (or so we were all told, the management needs to go etc etc)... I guess the numbers don't lie.
Quoting koruman (Reply 152): My belief for a long time has been that North America and AKL-LAX-LHR are viable, especially if there is smart variation in capacity on a seasonal basis.
I also believe that PVG is intrinsically unprofitable.
Have you got anything to back this up or is this just pure opinion?
Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 154):
I'm still waiting for the long haul review report.......
Keep waiting, the "report" was an internal review.
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 156): I understand what you are saying, but I question whether NZ has the scale to be able to run two different configurations of 77Es. I think it would wreak havoc with utilisation.
Have a fleet or 8 and having sub configurations within this small fleet reduces your flexibility on fleet use especially around ex time.
Quoting koruman (Reply 160):
David, which competitors are those?
These are all monopoly routes.
Should that change anything?
Quoting cchan (Reply 165): These probably won't go before KIX. If NZ wants to axe LHR, they would have announced it earlier this year when they announced other cut backs.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 176, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6332 times:
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Any thoughts on how the proposed code share between QF and EK might affect Tasman routes?
Yes, which brings me to this -->
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 175): More options for customers - WLG-SYD twice daily at different ends of the day
And this is what the QF/EK arrangement would be too. QF would concentrate on the morning and early afternoon, leaving EK the later afternoon/evening for the A380, and offering reciprocal codeshares. Flights like QF44/QF134/QF126 would likely go. and EK would gain the possibility of gaining the all important SYD/BNE/MEL business day trip passengers from both sides of the ditch...
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 177, posted (8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6378 times:
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 164): ll something would have to give if they want to open up another US port, maybe axe PVG? there already putting the 763 on it, re-enter when they have the 300 seat 789's!,
I doubt they would drop PVG but they shouldn't need to to open another say US port. Send 763s to PVG and NRT like they are starting to do more, even in the NZ winter you could use . HKG-LHR, PER, YVR, HNL, that would use 6 aircraft with 1 for addidtional US destination 3x weekly plus maintanence on 1 or some NRT, PVG services. Even in NZ summer YVR would increase with some LAX flights also being 772, HNL might go 763 with more NRT, PVG flights being 772 in the peak season.
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Any thoughts on how the proposed code share between QF and EK might affect Tasman routes? Where would competition increase or decrease?
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Could we see QF dropping a flight that operates at times close to an EK Tasman sector so that it could open a new route, like WLG-BNE or AKL-ADL?
Aircraft rotations for Jet connect could get a little screwed up though with dropping a MEL/BNE-AKL.
I wonder if QF would drop 1 of its morning SYD-AKL flights there are 2 along with its morning MEL and BNE-AKL flights.
ex SYD could be
0700 QF
0900 EK
1200 QF
1600 QF
1830 QF
ex AKL could be
0615 QF
0830 QF
1315 QF
1545 QF
1845 EK
The 1700 AKL arrival doesn't depart AKL though until the following day, since EK can't add more Tasman flights they might be keen for QF to add AKL-ADL with that aircraft, it could fit quite well to connect to EKs new ADL-DXB service.
QF offered red eye ADL-AKL when they first did ADL-AKL in 2004/05 they dropped the route in 2007 after it went to Jetconnect for a while and connected both directions with QFs AKL-LAX service, obviously didn't do that well, ADL-AKL was 3 weekly. PER would be the other one, EK I believe applied for PER-AKL some years ago when they already flew to AKL and CHC 4x daily, they were denied by the Australian government I believe because no Australian airline flew PER-AKL, SAA had a similar experience I believe. Would a QF code on the flight be enough to convice authorities to allow EK to fly PER-AKL? I guess they then have to get additional landing rights. Maybe EK will push QF to put an A330 on it but then QF may pull International ex PER. I can't see EK pulling CHC for Freight reasons mainly and another dot on the map.
QF could drop CHC altogether and codeshare with EK with JQ doing the rest as they already do.
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Or would it be more likely that QF keeps its schedule, but EK changes the Aust transit point, eg AKL-PER? Would it increase the likelihood of a nonstop service from DXB to NZ?
IMO EK wouldn't drop any existing TT legs. DXB-AKL non stop does come up from time to time though and I think it will happen one day given EK are a popular brand in NZ and they currently offer 2 stop Europe service.
cainanuk From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 179, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6212 times:
Flight radar 24 on Android perhaps? I just got notified of that one as well. It was squawking 7600 an hour or so ago off the coast of Scotland. Whatever the problem, things must have deteriorated.
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 180, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6110 times:
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 175): NZ has grown and has added new routes DPS, MRO
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 175): There is still plenty more to come this year.
For someone who says they work for Air NZ, and who usually refers to having access to confidential company information to put down others, you could at least get your IATA Codes right. MRO is Masterton. MCY is Maroochydore.
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 10 Reply 183, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6064 times:
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 172): Any thoughts on how the proposed code share between QF and EK might affect Tasman routes? Where would competition increase or decrease?
Could we see QF dropping a flight that operates at times close to an EK Tasman sector so that it could open a new route, like WLG-BNE or AKL-ADL?
Or would it be more likely that QF keeps its schedule, but EK changes the Aust transit point, eg AKL-PER? Would it increase the likelihood of a nonstop service from DXB to NZ?
It's possible that EK will operate less flights to SYD/MEL/BNE if QF starts up flights to DXB. Less flights to those ports means less flights across the Tasman also for EK.
The question might be asked why would EK reduce Oz flights? If the deal with QF is a good one it frees up EKs aircraft to go to other markets. Yes they will still want to fly to Oz but perhaps reduce to once daily to each city with QF flying to DXB on their own metal to make up the numbers. It is possible that EK might look at a PER-AKL however since that is a much longer flight it might mess up the schedule too much (the East Coast aircraft can squeeze in a quick Tasman).
I see this deal being of some benefit to NZ actually, particularly if EK or QF drop a flight or 2. If QF isn't losing out to EK in this deal then the airline with the most to lose from this is probably SQ.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2980 posts, RR: 6 Reply 184, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6040 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 183): I see this deal being of some benefit to NZ actually, particularly if EK or QF drop a flight or 2
I'm not sure what to make of it.
It might lower Air NZ's Tasman yields further though, after the hit they have already taken with Seats To Suit.
The rationale being that whereas up to now Qantas has only been able to sell JetConnect 737 services with Business Class recliners, now they will be able to sell Emirates long-haul Business Class product.
NZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 5672 posts, RR: 40 Reply 185, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6030 times:
Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 177): they might be keen for QF to add AKL-ADL with that aircraf
I'm not really sure why they'd want this route.. I mean the vast majority who fly EK to NZ do so without stopping over in Australia. And Adelaide isn't likely to be a major port of call compared to SYD, MEL or BNE - heck, EK are only about to start flights there! They don't need to filter passengers through ADL just yet in order to fill up the other planes. If you were arguing for ADL, I'm sure PER would have just as much, if not more priority for flights to/from AKL for QF to want to operate themselves and push people onto the PER-DXB flights.
NZ6 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2010, 245 posts, RR: 1 Reply 186, posted (8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5935 times:
Quoting PA515 (Reply 180): For someone who says they work for Air NZ, and who usually refers to having access to confidential company information to put down others, you could at least get your IATA Codes right. MRO is Masterton. MCY is Maroochydore.
Oh dear, not everyone in the company uses city codes on a daily basis (if at all). I'm not sure if you are aware of this or not? In fact some parts of the business are so removed from the daily airline operations they may not even be able to tell you where or how often we flew to certain places. Remember there are just under 12,000 workers some working in very specialised roles.
Either way I was referring to Masterton, thanks for pointing out the Sunshine Coast as another new destination however. No need for an apology.
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 175): NZ has grown and has added new routes DPS, MRO
Kapiti Coast also (PPQ).
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 183): It's possible that EK will operate less flights to SYD/MEL/BNE if QF starts up flights to DXB. Less flights to those ports means less flights across the Tasman also for EK.
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 183): I see this deal being of some benefit to NZ actually, particularly if EK or QF drop a flight or 2. If QF isn't losing out to EK in this deal then the airline with the most to lose from this is probably SQ.
True, but wouldn't the Emirates flights be replaced by Etihad flights before long? I believe (possibly incorrectly) that Emirates is currently using all of the UAE's local fifth freedom rights, thus if Emirates decides to end a few flights Etihad could begin some of their own (if they felt it was a wise use of resources).
PA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 188, posted (8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5474 times:
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 186): Either way I was referring to Masterton, thanks for pointing out the Sunshine Coast as another new destination however. No need for an apology.
Nice try, but no apology warranted. Your comments were about the 2012 Annual Results Announcement.
Quoting NZ6 (Reply 175): Okay so the results are out, we can look at QF and VA for comparisons.
gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5217 posts, RR: 6 Reply 192, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4772 times:
Quoting zkojq (Reply 187): This will make Etihad Virgin Australia's second largest foreign shareholder after Air New Zealand who owns 14.99%.
Third largest, unless SRB's Virgin has reduced their 25%. In fact with SRB @ 25%, NZ @ 15% & Etihad @ 10% = 50% there can be no other foregin shareholders, unless the international operations are restructed in some way. I'd be suprised if there are no other foregin investors already, particularly institutional investors.
texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4204 posts, RR: 53 Reply 194, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4605 times:
Flights to Antarctica will resume. My understanding is that Qantas will operate charter sightseeing flights to Antarctica from Auckland. Not sure of the dates of the flights, but the thought is they will operate summer only. Qantas will use the 744 for the flights.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
There are only usually about 2 from Australia each year so I wouldn't expect there to be more than one a year. And yes, flying it in winter wouldn't be the smartest thing to do!
texan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4204 posts, RR: 53 Reply 197, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4587 times:
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 196): There are only usually about 2 from Australia each year so I wouldn't expect there to be more than one a year. And yes, flying it in winter wouldn't be the smartest thing to do!
Looks like the plan is for Feb only right now.
Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 198, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4564 times:
Has the delivery date of the first ATR72-600 been confirmed? If the date is still intended to be in October we should expect to see it images of it at Toulouse sometime soon.
Quoting gemuser (Reply 192): Third largest, unless SRB's Virgin has reduced their 25%. In fact with SRB @ 25%, NZ @ 15% & Etihad @ 10% = 50% there can be no other foregin shareholders, unless the international operations are restructed in some way. I'd be suprised if there are no other foregin investors already, particularly institutional investors.
Ah ok, I must have be confusing the Australian laws (49.99% foreign ownership cap) with the American laws (25% foreign ownership cap). Thank-you for clarifying.
I find it interesting that the AKL flights are more expensive compared to the Australian flights! Business Class (Ice Class) ex AKL is well over $9000, yet Ice Class from Aussie is just over $6000 (Australian dollars) I'm considering doing a flight but would certainly fly ex Aussie. Even with Tasman fares, it still works cheaper. Wonder what the charter company operating the flight have as an excuse!
QF have four planned flights that can currently be booked - including the new years eve flight. I believe theres upto six flights. First flight IIRC next month is fully booked
Will be nice seeing a QF B744 back in AKL - especially if the media reports are correct with the aircraft being an ER model!
WSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 50 posts, RR: 0 Reply 200, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4425 times:
Can anyone confirm that the EK412/413 Auckland leg has been cancelled on Thursday 6th? Friend was booked on this flight and has been re-booked. Something to do with the EK/OF tie-up?
ZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5020 posts, RR: 12 Reply 201, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4416 times:
Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 200): Can anyone confirm that the EK412/413 Auckland leg has been cancelled on Thursday 6th? Friend was booked on this flight and has been re-booked. Something to do with the EK/OF tie-up?
I believe this is the case yes.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 185): I'm not really sure why they'd want this route.. I mean the vast majority who fly EK to NZ do so without stopping over in Australia. And Adelaide isn't likely to be a major port of call compared to SYD, MEL or BNE - heck, EK are only about to start flights there!
I take it you mean most people flying EK from DXB or Europe to NZ don't stop in OZ for a day or 2?! Since all EK flights to NZ are through OZ. ADL is a new route and will start 4 weekly going daily 3 months or so later. QF do AKL-ADL EK do ADL-DXB, i'd have thought a bit of this might go on with the proposed QF/EK deal. It takes people off the SYD/MEL/BNE flights which are often full ex OZ and might allow higher loads ex ADL if they funnel that way.
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 185): If you were arguing for ADL, I'm sure PER would have just as much, if not more priority for flights to/from AKL for QF to want to operate themselves and push people onto the PER-DXB flights.
I agree, except if what some say is true QF may drop PER International flights. Maybe EK will do a PER-SIN to keep that route open?
Quoting eta unknown (Reply 189):
I don't recall NZ 763's ever operating LAX-LHR.
Mr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 766 posts, RR: 1 Reply 202, posted (8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4375 times:
Quoting 777ER (Reply 199): Even with Tasman fares, it still works cheaper. Wonder what the charter company operating the flight have as an excuse!
Umm...they don't need an excuse? They have priced their fares no doubt at what they think the market will pay. If they are wrong and demand is weaker than they forecast then no doubt the fare will drop.
Different markets are just that, different. Airlines (and charter operators) attempting to maximise revenue and yields are very careful and skillful at attempting to match supply with demand whilst also transfering as much of the consumer suprlus as possible to their own books.
More JQ bashing which was not called for. The media really should write stories where there is actually 'news' as opposed to some uninformed passenger creating a storm in a teacup
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3952 posts, RR: 4 Reply 204, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3760 times:
For those who are interested... NZ's first 789. Also, a report last week raised the possibility that the 789 could weigh in less than the planned weight.
I really wouldn't expect it, especially considering they've just spent so much building that brand new lounge in AKL. However, it'd open up WLG to EK codeshares. And they could possibly swap the CHC flight for sending AKL double daily with the knowledge that they can codeshare on that route as well. Though I expect the TT routes to stay as they are for the time being.
WSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 50 posts, RR: 0 Reply 207, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3541 times:
With all the buzz and hype surrounding the EK/QF partnership, what are the chances NZ could go down a similar path with *insert airline here* in the future? Or is *A working well as is?
Zkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4739 posts, RR: 10 Reply 208, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3517 times:
Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 207): With all the buzz and hype surrounding the EK/QF partnership, what are the chances NZ could go down a similar path with *insert airline here* in the future? Or is *A working well as is?
If the government sells down its NZ stake some then I expect EY to buy a 10-20% holding like how they have just done with VA and with other airlines like Air Berlin etc.
NZ would probably stay with *A, the question is would those other airlines join? Air Berlin certainly wouldn't/can't because of LH. Maybe a whole new alliance with all the Virgin Group (VS,VX,VA)+Etihad+Air NZ+Aer Lingus+Air Berlin+Singapore Air.
It wouldn't be a big alliance, but it would still cover most of the world (particularly if VX grows considerably). NZ could of course still have relationships with airlines outside of the alliance to fill the gaps. I give it a 1 in 4 chance of happening... *A has its benefits for NZ.
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 209, posted (8 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3423 times:
Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 207): With all the buzz and hype surrounding the EK/QF partnership, what are the chances NZ could go down a similar path with *insert airline here* in the future? Or is *A working well as is?
VA is the carrier they will focus on that kind of arrangement with for the timebeing. As is the theme worldwide, codeshare/airshare partners are increasingly airline/route specific strategically rather than solely part of the major alliances. Expect partnerships, but not as all inclusive/thorough as the EK/QF or indeed the NZ/VA..
WSTAKL From New Zealand, joined Jun 2011, 50 posts, RR: 0 Reply 210, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2991 times:
Having a look on flightradar24 and noticed a 762 belonging to Aramco Associated heading to AKL. Anyone know the reason for the visit? Before looking on wikipedia, I had never heard of or seen this aircraft before.
zkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 778 posts, RR: 1 Reply 211, posted (8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 208): If the government sells down its NZ stake some then I expect EY to buy a 10-20% holding like how they have just done with VA and with other airlines like Air Berlin etc.
Ive been thinking that too. I don't think they will be buying just for Air New Zealand, but also for Air New Zealand's Stake in Virgin Australia which they would no-doubt like to sell to themselves.
Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 210): Having a look on flightradar24 and noticed a 762 belonging to Aramco Associated heading to AKL. Anyone know the reason for the visit? Before looking on wikipedia, I had never heard of or seen this aircraft before.
Aramco = Saudi Aramco = The Saudi Arabian Oil Company = Saudi Arabian Oil Ministry. So its reason for being here probably has something to do with oil/energy but could be because the Saudi Oil Minister has come here on holiday. Aramco have flown various aircraft a few times, most recently they sent a Gulfstream G550 here last Sunday. The Aramco 767-200 has been here before at least once, I remember seeing it myself - certainly not something you see every day. For some reason all of Aramco's planes have American registrations. The 767 is registered N767A and last sunday's Gulfstream is N595A.
As a side note/Incase anyone is interested: every now and then we also have Saudi Ministry of Finance Boeing 737BBJs and Gulfstream G-IVs visiting. This is because Saudi Arabia owns a lot of New Zealand Government debt.
I don't see how it affects NZ on AKL-LAX; apart from the fact that the growing number of disillusioned Airpoints members who are defecting might see this as a good reason to route themselves through SYD.. Or if there were people willing to fly 3/4 the way around the world to get to LAX!
I'd say QF would need to restart AKL-LAX (not as JQ) for there to be any implications again.. But then I can't see it differing too much compared to how it was when they were still operating the route.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 214, posted (8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2606 times:
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Ive been thinking that too. I don't think they will be buying just for Air New Zealand, but also for Air New Zealand's Stake in Virgin Australia which they would no-doubt like to sell to themselves.
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