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UAL And Pilots Have AIP On New Contract  
User currently offline30west From Brazil, joined Mar 2010, 33 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 15 hours ago) and read 12101 times:

Just heard the pilots at UAL and the company came to an agreement today to be announced late tonight or early tomorrow AM. Good news for all I hope.

30west

[Edited 2012-08-02 19:48:53]

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 840 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 12046 times:
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That is good news for all involved. Get it done and let us all move on!!


Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 840 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 11821 times:
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From Bloomberg:

United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) reached a tentative contract agreement with union pilots, moving the world’s largest airline closer to integrating its workforce after the 2010 merger that formed the company, two people familiar with the matter said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-with-pilots-union.html?cmpid=yhoo



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently onlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 888 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

HP/US , pay attention !  

User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 14 hours ago) and read 11719 times:

Before everyone gets too far ahead of themselves, there are still a few time consuming steps. It is an agreement in principle. Final language still must be written. That will take several weeks (at least). Then comes MEC review then a vote by the rank and file. We're probably looking at anywhere from 2-4 months before anyone even knows if we have a contract. Only then will work start on integrating the seniority lists (another time consuming venture). Probably still a year before any mixed flying occurs.

That said, at least there is some potentially positive news for a change.

[Edited 2012-08-02 20:39:57]

User currently offlineHNL-Jack From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 13 hours ago) and read 11481 times:

Let's hope that this is a sign that finally the workforce can come together and work together to make UA the fine airline it should and can be.


Grew up in the business and continued the family tradition.
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2560 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 12 hours ago) and read 11353 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 3):
HP/US , pay attention !

It would take a lot more than paying attention. The former US pilots (east) are simply not interested in negotiating anything that involves putting a single west pilot ahead of the bottom east pilot. If that means sitting on their hands and not negotiating a new contract, so be it. They would - quite honestly - rather burn their careers and the airline to the ground rather than admit that the luck of the draw put them into an airline with a long upgrade time and bad management. I've known a few east pilots as well as west. I've never met a bigger bunch of hot-headed, short-sighted, and narrow-focused people in my lifetime as the east pilots (as a whole).

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlinesldispatcher From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 9 hours ago) and read 10700 times:

Will be very interesting to see what the following answers are:

1. Scope

2. Aircraft orders to follow if affected/allowed by #1.

3. Reaction by pilot groups at other airlines.

4. Reaction by sensible pilots at UA as well as the hard core union folks.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

This is GREAT!!! I thought perhaps the EI flight drop was an indicator we were close!!

Couldn't be more thrilled!!

-m

  


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 9932 times:

Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 7):
1. Scope

2. Aircraft orders to follow if affected/allowed by #1.

Hoping for a C-series or ERJ-190/195 order for mainline to finally replace the 737-300s and 737-500s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineboeing727 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 954 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 9777 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Quoting sldispatcher (Reply 7):
1. Scope

2. Aircraft orders to follow if affected/allowed by #1.

Hoping for a C-series or ERJ-190/195 order for mainline to finally replace the 737-300s and 737-500s.

Flown by mainline pilots...

Boeing727


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 9737 times:

Quoting boeing727 (Reply 10):
Flown by mainline pilots...

Absolutely.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 9718 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
for mainline to finally replace the 737-300s


The 737-300's have been gone for some time now.

Quoting boeing727 (Reply 10):
Flown by mainline pilots...


For sure!



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9690 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 12):
The 737-300's have been gone for some time now.


The last CO 733 flight was barely two years ago:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...478&s=last+CO+733+flight#ID4768478

[Edited 2012-08-03 05:52:29]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

CO alone had 60+ 737-300s and 60+ 737-500s, not sure how large UA's 733/735 was but I'm sure it was identical if not larger than CO's.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9600 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
The last CO 733 flight was barely two years ago:


When you're as old as I two years is "some time ago"!  
Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
CO alone had 60+ 737-300s and 60+ 737-500s, not sure how large UA's 733/735 was but I'm sure it was identical if not larger than CO's.


All true, and flown by mainline pilots. I probably flew on most of the CO 300/500 ships over the past 24 years.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 4 hours ago) and read 9335 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
CO alone had 60+ 737-300s and 60+ 737-500s, not sure how large UA's 733/735 was but I'm sure it was identical if not larger than CO's.

Prior to BK UA had 101 737-300 and 57 737-500. They parked around 60 of them during BK and retired the remainder during the oil run-up of 2008. It would be nice to see a C-series or Embraer aircraft on property as UA Mainline.

Looks like there are a few more minor details to work out but they have agreed on wages and scope which we all knew would be the most difficult parts.

Here is the official notification from ALPA...

https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=48862

...and from United.

http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....-newsArticle&ID=1722208&highlight=



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2703 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 9202 times:

Great news, hopefully it can be finalized in a timely manner.

It would be amazing if the EMB scope was brought into mainline but I am not holding my breath.

Is this the last union group that needs to get a new merged contract? If not, which ones need to be worked out?

I think 2012 will prove to be a tough year for the UA and the merger but I am optimistic that things are falling into place and will turn around (especially customer side of things) before 2013.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1559 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 9009 times:

Quoting HAL (Reply 6):

I realize this is opening a proverbial can of worms, but are you really saying that East pilots don't want ANY West pilots to be ahead of ANY of them? That seems a little odd that they wouldn't see how ludicrous it would be if I'm a 5-year East pilot and you're a 20-year West pilot and somehow I'm supposed to be ahead of you in a combined company. Ties and near ties I can understand why there is room for negotiation, but any pilots seems a bit extreme.


User currently offlinesuperjeff From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 8865 times:
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Quoting HAL (Reply 6):
It would take a lot more than paying attention. The former US pilots (east) are simply not interested in negotiating anything that involves putting a single west pilot ahead of the bottom east pilot. If that means sitting on their hands and not negotiating a new contract, so be it. They would - quite honestly - rather burn their careers and the airline to the ground rather than admit that the luck of the draw put them into an airline with a long upgrade time and bad management. I've known a few east pilots as well as west. I've never met a bigger bunch of hot-headed, short-sighted, and narrow-focused people in my lifetime as the east pilots (as a whole).

HAL

What a shame. For all the issues with Doug Parker, if it weren't for HP, there wouldn't be any US anymore. They were essentially without options. They should be thankful that they still have jobs (and I am one of the folks out here that prefer to fly with the East crews rather than the west)


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 hours ago) and read 8844 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Hoping for a C-series or ERJ-190/195 order for mainline to finally replace the 737-300s and 737-500s.

Don't hold your breath. Airline management is coming to realize that 100 seaters are difficult to operate at mainline cost scale. Mainline economics don't really start getting good till you hit 120+ seats.

You'll notice that DL didn't rush out to buy a 100 seater. They are picking up 717's but that's because they are cheap since they are used. And the 717 is on the high end of the E190/C-Series scale in terms of size.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 8721 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 20):
Mainline economics don't really start getting good till you hit 120+ seats.

That's the CS300 configured in a two class configuration.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 874 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 8576 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
Is this the last union group that needs to get a new merged contract? If not, which ones need to be worked out?

No. It's quite the opposite actually; the pilots would be the first workgroup to have a joint contract.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2703 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 8511 times:

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 22):
No. It's quite the opposite actually; the pilots would be the first workgroup to have a joint contract.

It is safe to say this is typically the most challenging? If this gets worked, so should the others?


User currently offline01pewterz28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 8399 times:

From our ALPA MEC

United, Continental Pilots Reach Agreement-In-Principle On New Contract
Chicago and Houston, August 3, 2012--The pilots of United and Continental Airlines,
after more than two years of negotiating with the company for a joint collective
bargaining agreement, and with the assistance of the National Mediation Board (NMB),
have reached an agreement-in-principle (AIP) with United Continental Holdings, Inc.,
on most major economic issues. While some details of an agreement still remain
open, the pilots are confident a final AIP can be worked out in the coming days.
“After working under a bankruptcy contract for nearly 10 years, the substantial
contributions of the pilots in helping United Airlines survive its darkest economic days
and make the United/Continental merger possible will, at last, be respected and
rewarded,” said Captain Jay Heppner, chairman of the United Master Executive
Council of the Air Line Pilots Association. “This pilot group has endured more than its
share of sacrifices since 9/11. We have flown through the airline’s bankruptcy, taking
drastic pay cuts and losing our pensions. We’ve witnessed the loss of thousands of
United pilot jobs through outsourcing and off-shoring.
“This is a great win for the pilots, a great win for the American people, a great win
for those who put safety first in America, and a great win for U.S. jobs. Once today’s
agreements are finalized and approved by our membership, we look forward to
getting to work under this new agreement and doing what we do best, which is
providing United customers with a safe and comfortable traveling experience.
“We stand at the threshold of a new day at United Airlines and we are ready to join
forces with our Continental brethren to help build the new United into the world’s
preeminent airline.”
“After many years of enduring the hardships of concessionary and bankruptcy-era
contracts, we are pleased to have finally reached an agreement that will allow our
pilots and their families to see gains in compensation, work rules, job protections,
and retirement and benefits,” said Captain Jay Pierce, chairman of the ALPA unit
representing Continental pilots. “Our pilots must be recognized for the hundreds of
millions of dollars in annual givebacks that ultimately allowed our airline to remain
competitive, prosper and avoid the economic turmoil that befell others in the
industry. Further, they deserve to be recognized for their role in building the success
of the company and for the role they will play in the success of the merger of equals
with United. We are pleased to be able to move forward with true progress towards
completion of the merger of our airlines. Once there is pilot approval of this contract,
the operations of the two airlines can finally begin to be integrated for the ultimate
benefit of our passengers, pilots and United employees, and shareholders. We can
begin to deliver on the promise of the world’s largest and best airline.”
Negotiations for the JCBA have been under the supervision of the National Mediation
Board (NMB). Terms of the agreement must now be converted into a tentative
agreement (TA). Until that process is complete, details of the TA will not be released.
The TA will be presented independently to ALPA’s governing bodies for each of the
Continental and United pilot groups for consideration. If approved, it will be sent to
the pilots of both carriers for a combined ratification vote.
The Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA) is the largest airline
pilot union in the world and represents more than 53,000 pilots at 37 U.S. and
Canadian airlines. There are approximately 7,000 pilots at United and 5,000 pilots
at Continental Airlines.
###
Contacts:
Dave Kelly, United Master Executive Council
847/292-1708
david.kelly@alpa.org
Amy Flanagan, Continental United Master Executive


25 Post contains images RDH3E : This would be the first JCBA. In reality it's more like 160+ seats, but the smaller (120ish) jets are a network necessity. I like how they make it so
26 flyhossd : Where does it say that? I certainly don't take it that way. Is there anything in that statement (about concessions, etc.) that you believe to be untr
27 RDH3E : C'mon, it is an obvious rallying cry. The same thing that has been said for the last 10 years "we want our pre-BK contract back". To your point, it i
28 01pewterz28 : We suffered enough lost pensions, pay, job security you name it we have endured it at United we just want to be on an even playing field. Why should
29 flyhossd : I don't recall what percent in pay UA pilots took. As I recall, CO pilots lost 9% in pay rate initially and lost other paid issues as well (like "Int
30 azjubilee : The letter is addressed to the UA/CO pilots, so it should absolutely focus on the issues the pilots have been and are facing. The plight of the other
31 DualQual : When you start paying dues to ALPA to represent you, you can get a mention. Otherwise, it's a press release from a pilots union, dealing with the sta
32 Post contains images RDH3E : It's easy to make that statement from your armchair while putting the faceless "management" title on everyone that's not in a union. I can tell you t
33 flyhossd : IIRC, the pilots - and maybe other workgroups, too (how's that for inclusion?) - haven't had a raise since before 2001. And it hasn't happened just y
34 NorthstarBoy : Am I reading it right to think that the pilots caved when it came to scope? I suppose the question now is what did they get from the company in return
35 United1 : I haven't heard any rumors but I wonder if they will freeze the current number of +50 seat jets and tie any growth of that number to growth of mainli
36 ramprat74 : It's amazing how fast both sides come to an agreement when the rank and file votes "Yes" to authorize a strike. Now it's time for the IAM to do the sa
37 LHCVG : Also, will it be frames or seats? I think that will be interesting to see as well, which metric gets pegged to mainline growth.
39 MSPNWA : Big step forward for UA. Hopefully the pilots got a good deal for the long wait and will approve it. I'm very curious to see what the terms are and ho
40 gigneil : When you're our age, two years ago is yesterday. A job? I love the sense of entitlement the pilots unions have while the rest of America struggles to
41 HAL : There is zero 'sense of entitlement' from unions, especially pilot unions. It's a mistaken sense of outrage from union haters that drives this sentim
42 flyhossd : So they should be in favor of outsourcing their jobs? Are you in favor of outsourcing yours? Please take the time to explain your comment.
43 gigneil : My greedy, self-serving, and ignorant comment replies specifically refer back to "what do the pilots get for allowing the company to do x" comments,
44 HAL : Since this is an aviation contract thread, I think it's fair game. Donald Trump wrote a book called 'The art of the deal'. To him, and I would guess
45 flyhossd : So in your perfect world, no one can negotiate? Is that really what you meant to say? You're right, it is an aviation forum. Pilots are part of aviat
46 Post contains images flyhossd : HAL, regarding your most recent reply (reply #44) - Well done, sir.
47 CODC10 : This point is ALWAYS forgotten. After 9/11, on the CO side, the middle management tier was essentially wiped out. I've said this before... I generall
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