flood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1132 posts, RR: 1 Posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11855 times:
Via their press release:
SilkAir, the regional wing of Singapore Airlines, has signed a letter of intent to purchase up to 68 new aircraft from Boeing.
The order is the largest in SilkAir’s history and remains subject to the negotiation of a final purchase agreement.
It will comprise firm orders for 54 aircraft and purchase rights for another 14.
Firm orders will comprise 23 Boeing 737-800s and 31 Boeing 737 MAX 8s.
SilkAir will have the flexibility to switch to other variants within the B737 product range. The firm-ordered aircraft are valued at US$4.9 billion based on current Boeing list prices. Deliveries are due to begin in 2014 and continue to 2021, by which time the Airline’s fleet will have more than doubled in size. SilkAir currently operates 21 A319s and A320s, with three more A320s due for delivery by the end of 2013. The new aircraft will cater for both growth and fleet renewal.
frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1244 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11707 times:
That's a very big surprise. I've heard rumors about it already last year, but I didn't really believe it was serious. Must be the first operator to switch from A319/A320 to 737MAX (UA's 737MAX order is to replace 757's as I see it).
USAF336TFS From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 53 Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11688 times:
Wow! Boeing coupe with an all Airbus carrier! Congratulations to both SilkAir and Boeing.
336th Tactical Fighter Squadron, 4th Fighter Wing, Seymour Johnson AFB
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2043 posts, RR: 39 Reply 4, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11633 times:
Very surprising. Perhaps SQ's way of keeping Airbus and Boeing on a fair leg.
At one point Silkair was the only part of SQ to have an Airbus fleet however that has changed since with 345, 380, 330 and 350 orders, versus 77W and 787-9 orders.
Beyond that, I wonder if it was delivery availability or price that influenced MI's (SQ's) decision.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3086 posts, RR: 9 Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 11612 times:
Wow - massive win for Boeing, and I bet MI/ SQ are very pleased with the deal as well. It's not trivial to switch operators, so I presume MI/ SQ either felt the planes were much better, or they got a sweet deal (or both). Good for both parties involved!
AAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 124 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11572 times:
We can only speculate what influenced Silk's decision to go with the 738NG/738MAX. The fact that the Boeing is a derivative of a 1960's model does not at all negate the improvements and new parts that Boeing has made. And those improvements keep on comming. So despite its extra width and fly-by-wire feature with the Airbus, the Boeing is pretty impressive too. Other airlines that have flown both models have gone back to Boeing. Aside from United and Delta, which may not be apt comparisons, Air Berlin comes to mind.
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6953 posts, RR: 7 Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11289 times:
Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2): Wow! Boeing coupe with an all Airbus carrier! Congratulations to both SilkAir and Boeing.
Silkair is Singapore Airlines so I'm not sure how this is viewed as such a coupe.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3): Oh well I guess the tides have turned..: I wonder if Singapore Airlines got a major discount for the 787 delays.
Maybe, maybe not. But I think the lack of available slots for the A320 any time soon, probably had more to do with it. The 787 orders pretty much dried up a couple of years ago for the same reason. At the end of the day, A320/737 they are pretty much equal. It comes down to availability and price.
UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1251 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11225 times:
Quoting ghifty (Reply 7): Didn't SilkAir just switch from the 737 Classic to the A320 family?
Yea, I was thinking the same thing 737 classic to Airbus to 737ng to 737 max!
-m
Welcome aboard United Airlines L1011 Friendship Service to Osaka!
SKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1345 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11188 times:
I think Singapore Airlines are opportunistic like Virgin Atlantic are... They go for whatever manufacturer can give them the best deal so play them off against each other until they achieve that.
Not much manufacturer loyality in the Straits
Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319), OSL-LHR (321), LHR-ARN (320), ARN-VXO (S34), VXO-BMA (ATP), ARN-LHR (763), LHR-CPH (320), C
johruk From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11077 times:
Might be a silly thing for me to mention, but could it also be that enough time has passed since the MI crash (which was a 737) to go back to the same family of aircraft?? Cant remember when they transitioned to the A320 family from the 737's...
Not looking to open a massive can of worms, just a thought I had...
glideslope From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1548 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9870 times:
Quoting johruk (Reply 12): Might be a silly thing for me to mention, but could it also be that enough time has passed since the MI crash (which was a 737) to go back to the same family of aircraft?? Cant remember when they transitioned to the A320 family from the 737's...
Not looking to open a massive can of worms, just a thought I had...
Odd comment there Mate? Let's focus on the Olympics if we are going that far off topic.
"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved"
777MAS From Malaysia, joined Sep 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9717 times:
Quoting ghifty (Reply 7): Didn't SilkAir just switch from the 737 Classic to the A320 family?
They started out with 737-300s before switching to A320/319.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3): Normally it is Airbus snatching all Boeing carriers
To put things into perspective, Boeing had a big headstart over Airbus in terms of product line. Up to 1992 Airbus only had the A300, A310 and relative newcomer A320. By then Boeing had the 737, and world beaters of their generation like 747-400, 757 and 767, and so dominated Airbus.
So, back then, many of the orders A received would be seen as A snatching B's customers. I guess now that A had caught up with B, it's come full circle, and we'll start seeing B snatching A's customers.
But for now, yes, it's rare indeed, B snatching A's orders!
johruk From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9693 times:
People have questioned why an airline would go from Boeing to Airbus and back to Boeing in a fairly short period of time and it was just a thought....knowing how superstition plays it part in parts of Asia the thought just crossed my mind! I have seen a few odd responses on here!
Trust me the Olympics is top of the topics list in my office!
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 392 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
That was a socko of an order. A huge surprise. When I first read the headline of "SilkAir orders new Boeing planes for US$4.9b" on CNA, my first thought was SilkAir extending further afield with the Dreamliner. The 737 was lightyears away from my mind. Never thought they would go back to the bestselling jetliner of all time.
Yes, the Palembang accident also came to mind. It happened on Dec 19, 1997 (I remembered it very well because I was supposed to be on that flight and Capt Tsu was a former colleague, RIP). Less than a year later, the A320 started to join the fleet and the 737 was totally phased out in 1999 after a service about 8 years.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5566 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9362 times:
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 1): Must be the first operator to switch from A319/A320 to 737MAX (UA's 737MAX order is to replace 757's as I see it).
UA is another carrier that ordered Boeing narrowbodies over Airbus.
Polot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9268 times:
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 17): UA is another carrier that ordered Boeing narrowbodies over Airbus.
UA already had a large 737NG fleet (larger than their A32X fleet) through their merger with CO though. The list of airlines who were pure A320 operators that decided to switch over to the 737 is very short.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8787 posts, RR: 52 Reply 21, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8416 times:
Great to see expansion from Silk Air. There's more than just Lion Air and Air Asia's wild expansion plans.
Quoting ghifty (Reply 7): Didn't SilkAir just switch from the 737 Classic to the A320 family?
It went MD-87 to 737 Classic, to A320, to 737 MAX. That shows an airline without strict manufacturer loyalty to me!
Quoting airbazar (Reply 9): Quoting USAF336TFS (Reply 2):
Wow! Boeing coupe with an all Airbus carrier! Congratulations to both SilkAir and Boeing.
Silkair is Singapore Airlines so I'm not sure how this is viewed as such a coupe.
Silk Air is familiar with Boeing aircraft and are a part of Singapore Airlines, so it is not a complete shock. However replacing A320s with 737 MAX is still significant to me.
What this helps signal is that it appears that relative parity is likely to remain in the narrowbody market. The ideal airplane choice is up to the unique operating environment and conditions of purchase at each individual airline.
Both Boeing and Airbus marketing want to imply that their airplane is better. I’ve seen quite a bit of advertising indicating that Airbus believes it is going to get more efficiency improvement out of the A320 NEO compared to the baseline A320 than Boeing will get out of the 737 MAX compared to the 737NG. However I personally am very cautious to fully trust marketing claims. Some will say the order was won on price and availability, which I have no doubt were factors. Boeing has a higher margin on their commercial airplanes than Airbus when looking at corporate profitability, but it is hard to know the differences between the A320 and 737.
Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 11): I think Singapore Airlines are opportunistic like Virgin Atlantic are... They go for whatever manufacturer can give them the best deal so play them off against each other until they achieve that.
Not much manufacturer loyality in the Straits
I tend to agree. Silk Air and Singapore Airlines are relatively neutral in the A vs B war and will go with whatever product fits into their strategy at the time. I do wonder sometimes about their strategy as I still can’t understand the logic behind replacing 777-200As with A330s with 787-9s on order. The 777-200A and A330 were competing side by side in the 1990s when SQ chose the 777, while they operated the A340.
Quoting johruk (Reply 12): Might be a silly thing for me to mention, but could it also be that enough time has passed since the MI crash (which was a 737) to go back to the same family of aircraft?? Cant remember when they transitioned to the A320 family from the 737's...
Emotions are always factors, but I would like to think that there is more animosity between the Indonesian NTSC and the US NTSB for publishing contradicting reports (NTSC indicated that cause was unknown and left questions about the 737 rudder to interpretation, which the NTSB blamed the pilot in what looked like a suicide attempt). I really doubt that it had any impact on ordering Boeing airplanes because Silk Air and the Indonesian Aviation Authority did not have problems with Boeing, but rather, the NTSB.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
9VSIO From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 645 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8370 times:
Quoting johruk (Reply 12): but could it also be that enough time has passed since the MI crash (which was a 737) to go back to the same family of aircraft??
Very interesting point. SQ is rather superstitious - after all, it still hasn't had an aircraft in something like it's old tropical paint scheme since that aircraft went down...
Me: (Lining up on final) I shall now select an aiming point. || Instructor: Well, I hope it's the runway...
Polot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 1591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8249 times:
Quoting neutrino (Reply 20): How short? Besides SilkAir, which other airliner which currently operates 3-3 single aisle jets has jumped ship from solely A320?
Honestly I cannot think of another airline. Virgin Nigeria did briefly have a couple of (used) A320s before going to (used) 737 classics, but I have a feeling that is more due to financial issues than anything else. I just said very short list as oppose to only airline to do so to cover my bases in case someone drags out some small obscure airline that switched from A320s to 737NGs
SSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7984 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 5): It's not trivial to switch operators, so I presume MI/ SQ either felt the planes were much better, or they got a sweet deal (or both). Good for both parties involved!
Quoting ghifty (Reply 7): Didn't SilkAir just switch from the 737 Classic to the A320 family?
Would you not consider these two competing A/C in all their variants to be the most similar to each other in the market? Is there any rhyme or reason for an airline to change it's fleet choice from one to the other, other than pricing? And when a very large airline buys hundreds of each, isn't that also playing both manufacturers to compete primarily on price, rather than considering of any kind of performance differentiation?
We hear about commonality and other criteria being factors, but then this sort of announcement (which can cut both ways, as we know) often catches many of you enthusiasts (who know more than I) off guard.
Changing an A/C type in a large fleet is expensive. What is the motivation besides price?
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25 kaitak: Good day for the 737 - this order from MI, and then another 40 from China. We know the 737 has already passed the 10k mark (thanks to United), so it's
26 neutrino: Haha, I got your point. Anyway, you are technically right as even just one airline can also fall under your "very short list"...a list of one.
27 garpd: Crikey, didn't see this coming. I was convinced the NEO would get this order. Boeing must have given them an unbeatable deal!
28 USAF336TFS: They were an Airbus-only airline, regardless of their ownership. You can spin it anyway you want, but my impression of the reaction to this story by
29 neutrino: How I wish this suicide nonsense can be laid to rest (not directing at you, Rose). Its being repeated ad nauseum even after almost 15 years. Extremel
30 airbazar: It's not that off topic. IIRC, SIA and Boeing were stuck in a blame game for the crash. To this day there is still no official root cause. Immediatel
31 clickhappy: ANA was an Airbus narrowbody customer that switched to the Boeing family.
32 flashmeister: South African has gone back and forth between A32x and B73x (both jurassic and NG).
33 KDAYflyer: And now Airbus is whining about Boeings 'aggressive pricing'. Gues what? This is a competitive business. John Leahy and company have used the same ta
34 trex8: Having been a 737 operator before the A320s.
35 aviasian: Shortly after the crash of the B737-300, there was a remark attributed to someone in Boeing indicating that the aircraft was "recently serviced by SIA
36 turn720: Sounds like a very smart company. Keep the competing OEM's on their toes.
37 col: For me this is a shocker. I think they are looking for the longer range flights into smaller Chinese ports and India. The 738 I think will help with t
38 ghifty: When an airline buys airplanes I imagine it's not a cut and dry situation where you buy one because it's either cheaper or more economical. Everythin
39 airbazar: I would discribe is as a surprise, maybe. AA buying Airbus was a coup. Singapore Airlines has no loyalty towards either Boeing or Airbus. Over their
40 JerseyFlyer: A lot of Silkair routes are quite short, under 3 hours - does this reflect that 737 economics are better than 320 for predominantly shorter flights? T
41 trex8: there are certainly some people who believe that and for that matter think the A320s LEAP engine also is better suited for longer flights than the 73
42 9V-SVA: SQ operated the A300 from the early 80s - early 90s. They operated the A300B4 variant..
43 330lover: Too short of time to read all replies, but just my thoughts: Silkair now has, what, some 20 to 25 A320 family aircraft? Going to 68 B737's looks very
44 neutrino: AA goes one better. From 2017 it can be highly expected to be operating 737NG, A320, 737MAX & A320NEO at the same time for some years... OTOH, Si
45 TreeHillRavens: More likely MI will operate flights alongside SQ to some cities but not the complete withdrawal of SQ-operated flights. They are already doing it now
46 USAF336TFS: Sorry to briefly go off topic, but to be fair to both AA and Airbus, IIRC that order still hasn't been confirmed by the bankruptcy court and is not o
47 PezySPU: I wonder if MI intends to operate all of these aircraft on order at the same time (most probably it does), but either way they are in for some expans
48 Megatop747-412: Actually SQ operated the A300 until about 84-85. They were phased out pretty quickly with the arrival of the A310s.
49 travelhound: I wonder if the relationship Silkair (Singapore Airlines) has with Virgin Australia influenced this decision. A common fleet, product and pilot pool m
50 col: Do not forget that SQ have Tiger. They are in OZ and Indonesia, as well as Sing.
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