Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Possible 2 AA Euro Routes From ORD Dropped?  
User currently offlinetimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 575 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14344 times:

ORD-HEL/FCO, are these two seasonal routes being dropped for 2013? The reason I ask these 2 routes are not showing resume dates for 2013 unlike ORD-DUB, BOS-CDG, and JFK-FCO. Could it be that AA has just not determined a firm restart date for these routes?
http://www.aa.com/i18n/aboutUs/newServiceRoutes.jsp#!international


Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4377 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13811 times:

I don't think anything is set in stone, but thats not a good sign. DUB is in the schedule for 2013, and FCO and HEL are not, as of now.

They fill up well, loads wise. I would think FCO would be solid after UA stopped their seasonal service. My impression of HEL is very low yielding though. Connections on this flight are frequently the lowest priced options over the Atlantic and there have been plenty of fare sales and promotions to fill the J cabin.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4116 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13788 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):
They fill up well, loads wise. I would think FCO would be solid after UA stopped their seasonal service. My impression of HEL is very low yielding though. Connections on this flight are frequently the lowest priced options over the Atlantic and there have been plenty of fare sales and promotions to fill the J cabin.

This route to HEL is covered by Finnair, who I believe is still in Oneworld. I expect this is also due to the economy in Europe right now.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9298 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13714 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 2):
This route to HEL is covered by Finnair, who I believe is still in Oneworld. I expect this is also due to the economy in Europe right now.

Finnair doesn't fly to Chicago. Or did I entirely miss a service announcement?



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13458 times:

I really hope that ORD-HEL route will return next year, because Finnair won't start a new route to the USA. I thought AA had good loads on their ORD-HEL route, but somebody wise taught me a long time ago "don't imagine, you need to know"

User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4377 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13450 times:

Loads would not be the problem, but thats not the whole story. It's a pretty packed summer on anything across the Atlantic.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13173 times:

I know HEL and FCO have both been full of revenue pax this summer. I'm positive they'll come back but, like this year, I don't think AA knows when they'll resume. I think they're dependent on getting seasonal 767 lift from South American seasonal equipment movements/upguages, they'll probably need to figure out that schedule before shifting those 767s back up to ORD.

User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 475 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12855 times:

They're running over 200 pax per flight on HEL, close to that on FCO. I could take a look over the last 60 days to see a daily average. It goes back to what are the yields?

What I would find interesting would be the fact if AA did drop FCO and UA currently doesn't operate any non stops to Italy. AZ and Sky Team would be the dominant and only carrier that would fly to Italy nonstop year around from ORD.


User currently offlinekyrone From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 12461 times:

AZ has been seasonal out of ORD for a year or so....

User currently offlineolddominion727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11195 times:

When AA was flying to CHI-ROM when it first came out it was seasonal like GLA and some of the other routes mentioned. Then when AA stopped flying to MIL they made ROM year-round. Now, I am not sure if they're back in MIL or not. I have to say that if AA drops ROM and HEL, they're really pissing away EU. They dropped CHI-FRA (I know it's so heavily *A), CHI-DUS, CHI-MUC, JFK-HAM, CHI-BHX, ORD-BUD, JFK-LYS, ORD-ARN, RDU/DAL-LGW, BOS-SNN, BNA-LGW, RDU-PAR... I really miss the AA of old. I know they're going thru their bankruptcy, but they cannot run a supportive international route structure to the EU if they only fly to a handful of cities and a dozen code-shares. AA has SO missed the boat on so many great routes KWI, DXB, ATH, IST, DKR, JNB, CPT, ADD. They could pay the ransom to Israel from TW era and start a lucrative TLV-MIA/TLV-CHI or DAL. They could even even get into Baghdad as tag-along from another flight going to the EU. I know we're seeing some life come back in AA and they're the first US carrier for the 77W, Could a few new routes be the ticket? I know the economy is very sluggish in the EU, but it is here too and in Asia. But people still need to fly. If that wasn't the case they wouldn't have necessarily opted for the sardine can 3-4-3 77W, which I think is a huge mistake and going to cost them business.

The only cities left they will serve if ROM and HEL get cancelled are: LON (LHR), MAN, PAR (CDG), MAD, BCN, FRA, DUB, MIL, ZRH, BRU. It's a skeleton of what they used to fly.

CO, DL & US may've run the hell out of their 752's TATL, and cancelled some of the routes, but many they still have. I cannot stand US, but the one thing I can say is they had the cojones to try, They took AA head-on in the Caribbean--service from a simple PHL & CLT to SJU, to many cities in the Caribbean, plus Mexico, Central America and South America with RIO, and a ton of EU service with sporadic Middle East routes too. AA hasn't even attempted it. I feel like they're afraid to fail, but if they don't try, how are they going to know? Errrr just my 2 cents at 130am.


User currently offlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Confirmed from Airline Route.

http://airlineroute.net/2012/08/04/aa-helfco-s13/


User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10802 times:

Quoting EY460 (Reply 10):
Confirmed from Airline Route

Sad to hear that  . Hopefully there will be replacements.


User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 746 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10623 times:

To be honest Im surprised at ORD-DUB returning. This route used to be year round and was dropped to seasonal and only recently EI announced that DUB-ORD was increasing from 7x weekly to 11x weekly for next Summer. EI have the benefit of feed at both ends (UA codeshares at ORD) where as AA only have connections at one end, and the AA 757 flying the route is pretty poor from a hard product perspective compared to the EI 330s


Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8278 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10506 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 9):
When AA was flying to CHI-ROM when it first came out it was seasonal like GLA and some of the other routes mentioned. Then when AA stopped flying to MIL they made ROM year-round. Now, I am not sure if they're back in MIL or not. I have to say that if AA drops ROM and HEL, they're really pissing away EU. They dropped CHI-FRA (I know it's so heavily *A), CHI-DUS, CHI-MUC, JFK-HAM, CHI-BHX, ORD-BUD, JFK-LYS, ORD-ARN, RDU/DAL-LGW, BOS-SNN, BNA-LGW, RDU-PAR... I really miss the AA of old. I know they're going thru their bankruptcy, but they cannot run a supportive international route structure to the EU if they only fly to a handful of cities and a dozen code-shares. AA has SO missed the boat on so many great routes KWI, DXB, ATH, IST, DKR, JNB, CPT, ADD. They could pay the ransom to Israel from TW era and start a lucrative TLV-MIA/TLV-CHI or DAL. They could even even get into Baghdad as tag-along from another flight going to the EU. I know we're seeing some life come back in AA and they're the first US carrier for the 77W, Could a few new routes be the ticket? I know the economy is very sluggish in the EU, but it is here too and in Asia. But people still need to fly. If that wasn't the case they wouldn't have necessarily opted for the sardine can 3-4-3 77W, which I think is a huge mistake and going to cost them business.

The only cities left they will serve if ROM and HEL get cancelled are: LON (LHR), MAN, PAR (CDG), MAD, BCN, FRA, DUB, MIL, ZRH, BRU. It's a skeleton of what they used to fly.

Much has changed since AA first started flying to Europe from Chicago and DFW. The biggest change is how big LHR is in AA route map, back in the early 1980's AA had to fly to LGW. AA flew to many secondary cities with 767's. When AA took over the TWA LHR routes they expanded flying from many cities like Miami, Boston, LAX and JFK to Europe, flying from Chcago to GLA, BHX and HAM was not so desirable any more.


User currently offlinejcwr56 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 475 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10354 times:

Quoting kyrone (Reply 8):
AZ has been seasonal out of ORD for a year or so....

SCR
/AZ W12
09MAY
ORD
NAZ628 28OCT03NOV 1234567 232763 FCO2005 J
NAZ628 04NOV09MAR 1234567 232763 FCO2005 J
NAZ628 10MAR30MAR 1234567 232763 FCO2005 J
N AZ629 28OCT03NOV 1234567 232763 2155FCO J
N AZ629 04NOV09MAR 1234567 232763 2155FCO J
N AZ629 10MAR30MAR 1234567 232763 2155FCO J
SI UTC TIMES PLS ACK TKS COOP

Until 15AUG, these are in our system and confirmed. So until they return these back, I have to look at it as they are operating.


It's almost to the point AA outside of LHR should just cut their loses from ORD to Europe. It seems no matter where they try, they fail within a year or so. Just pump people to JFK and LHR and call it a day. *more of a venting statement.

[Edited 2012-08-04 04:44:52]

User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10354 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Unfortunate but not surprising with the addition of a new Central European hub and AB's addition to OW. I think AA will be funneling most of that traffic on the new AB flight.

Rather disappointed on a personal note as I was planning to take the AA HEL flight on a trip to Northern Europe next summer.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10002 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

UA's yields on the ORD-BRU run have kept improving since AA dropped the route.

And with a good part of O&D traffic I've been told...

Now, I keep wondering how the JFK-BRU route has survived, certainly with the 757 product.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9931 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quite a few transfer between AA/AY over Manchester and more likely to now with the B763 on the ORD-MAN leg.

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9326 times:

It seems like the trend with AA over the last few years has been to concentrate the Europe flying out of JFK.

It is surprising because their feed at JFK is not great. But, I guess it makes more sense to have NYC with its high connections to Europe and good location for jumping across the pond as a gateway.

Chicago-American's gateway to the world...that's what the banner in the terminal used to say. I wonder if it is still hanging there


User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 746 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9219 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 18):
Chicago-American's gateway to the world...that's what the banner in the terminal used to say. I wonder if it is still hanging there

See part of the problem (but only a small part) AA has is connections from Europe to other parts of the Americas via ORD often involve backtracking. Anywhere along the east coast can be reached easier via EWR or JFK with UA or DL. This coupled with the fact AA offer a sub-par hard product to Europe on their 757s versus UA's or some of DL's leaves AA facing an uphill battle



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8662 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 19):
See part of the problem (but only a small part) AA has is connections from Europe to other parts of the Americas via ORD often involve backtracking. Anywhere along the east coast can be reached easier via EWR or JFK with UA or DL. This coupled with the fact AA offer a sub-par hard product to Europe on their 757s versus UA's or some of DL's leaves AA facing an uphill battle

Exactly. Especially in terms of product, DL 757s and the ex-CO 757s are quite up to date in the back, with PTVs at every seat and AC power (first 10 rows on DL, every seat on CO). AA's 757s feature overhead monitors and a handful of rows with AC power scattered throughout the cabin. From a pure passenger experience standpoint, DL/UA will win every time.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8344 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 1):
I don't think anything is set in stone, but thats not a good sign. DUB is in the schedule for 2013, and FCO and HEL are not, as of now.

I never understood HEL even if it is a Oneworld hub. HEL isnt a good hub for transiting from North America unless you are specifically going to Russia or Baltic states. That would not be enough for a successful service as yields I bet are low.
FCO is simply low yield and served from ORD by AZ.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 19):
This coupled with the fact AA offer a sub-par hard product to Europe on their 757s versus UA's or some of DL's leaves AA facing an uphill battle

I know Anetters care about this but most people dont. They care about fares and mileage programs. So long as AA F/J/C on the 757s is competitive, then it is fine. The fact that AA doesnt have AVOD on the 757s is not important. I would love to see a study that shows AVOD pays for itself with higher fares in Y cabin.


User currently offlinetimberwolf24 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 575 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8278 times:

Really can't say I'm surprised at this move. AA is left with just 3 year round flight to Europe from ORD-LHR/MAN/CDG and one seasonal route DUB.


Living in LA, ORD/MDW will always be home!
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 746 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 21):
I would love to see a study that shows AVOD pays for itself with higher fares in Y cabin.

I didnt say AVOD means you should be able to charge higher fares in Y. What I said was that UA and increasingly DL have a better hard product in Y on the 757s which fly many of the Atlantic runs. AVOD is a part of this as is in seat power etc.

From a customers point of view, no they are unlikely to pay substantially more to fly from Europe to USA via EWR or JFK with UA or DL over AA via ORD purely for AVOD, but in my experience (certainly ex DUB), AA are no cheaper than anyone else so why then would anyone pick AA unless they have FF affinity? Put simply AA have been left behind in many of the European markets they serve by both their American peers and by the local airlines and this is part of the reason their European network has shrank while others have grown around them.

Their reintroduction of free beers in Y is a small step in the right direction but there is much more to do to regain the market. Here in DUB, UA have billboards everywhere for the last 6 months advertising the new IAD service. The previous year it was US with the new CLT service. I couldnt tell you the last time I saw AA advertising in DUB and to me that is endemic of their lack of focus. If they want DUB to work (and the numbers flying EI direct, BA via LHR and UA via ORD suggest they are), then market it like you want it to rather than just putting a sub-par (in comparison with the competition) aircraft on the route seasonally and expecting it to do great things for you



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7899 times:

Economic problems showing them selves in Italy. I would think ORD could sustain one flight to Italy even during winter. As for HEL, they often seem to be offering some heavily discounted J offer or something where they will give you an extra 25K miles for booking in business. That would seem to indicate they are not getting good yield on their own.


Any idea what AA will do with 2 freed up 763's


25 jpetekyxmd80 : This is not official. This is still really, really early. Look how late in the game they changed the Helsinki start date this year. Why would they wan
26 jfk777 : When AA declared Chapter 11 the first route they eliminated was Dehli from ORD, that tells us they must have been killed on it. AA 777 seem to work t
27 jcwr56 : For one thing they will be needing to apply for slots, so shouldn't they have at least the idea when/if they're going to operate it? Since historical
28 Post contains images jpetekyxmd80 : Who will they be needing to apply for slots to?
29 Post contains links jcwr56 : For HEL; http://www.helslot.fi/ For FCO http://www.assoclearance.it/versione_inglese/index.asp US; they'll need to submit FAA and CIAG Here's the web
30 jpetekyxmd80 : Formalities. They will have no problem flying these routes if they want to fly them. They could get brand new routes going in 3-4 months if they neede
31 finnishway : Would there be any changes to get a year-round ORD-HEL route? Winter is the busiest time in Finnish tourism, so I think there would be much demand for
32 HELyes : Finland gets more winter tourists than other Nordic countries but I'm afraid you can't expect tourists flowing from ORD... The ORD-HEL is (was) based
33 jfk777 : These were the routes of an airline trying to build a route system to Europe with any route they could get. RDU and Nashville were cancelled because
34 flyfree727 : Per email recevied today 8/6/12 from our manager in ORD, both FCO and HEL and scheduled to return 2013 for seasonal flying. Stated this was confirmed
35 syncmaster : Except for the former NW 757's. JFK-DUB-JFK last summer with old worn out seats and TV screens that were barely useable. I can't say this news is sur
36 pesit4a : But AA are doing fine to DUB. The loads are consistenly good on the seasonal service. Their logic is probably "why spend money on it if we are fillin
37 EIRules : Agreed. But in fairness to DL, since then the newer 752s fly to DUB much more often now and from next year I think all of the JFK-DUB flights will be
38 Post contains links okAY : Airline Route: *Edit as of 1930GMT: Airline Route has been informed that these seasonal routes for 2013 are simply not loaded in the system, however,
39 panamair : Fortunately, all the ex-NW 757s (75As) DL had been using on transatlantic previously have been reconfigured and moved to Asia for the shorter intra-A
40 Post contains images syncmaster : Glad to hear it. At the end of the day you seemingly spend more time waiting on the ground at JFK () than you did in the air anyways as it's a relati
41 DLBOIFIN : I really, really hope that they will continue with these two seasonal flights. I've taken ORD-HEL-ORD flight several times, and it always seems to be
42 AAplat4life : High load factors are not determinative for AA. The question management asks is whether it is making a sufficient profit on the route (surprisingly gi
43 LIPZ : Well, although not the best days in Italy, anyway USA-Italy is by far a larger market than USA-Finland.
44 pesit4a : From where are you getting the seats available information? If its the seat map, it does not show availability, merely what seats have been blocked.
45 finnishway : USA-Finland market is not too big, but when we count the neighbouring countries, the potential market grows very much. There are good connections to
46 okAY : Concerning ORD-HEL flight, Facebook page AA Europe gave the following answer to question if this route is going to be closed down: "AA Europe: we are
47 timberwolf24 : As per the site that cannot be mentioned AA has loaded ORD-FCO, this flight to resume April 2, 2013. ORD-HEL is also to resume on June 13, 2013.
48 mhkansan : Looks like the routes are here to stay! AA wants to grow international capacity over the next couple years, I'm sure its not a good time to start axin
49 olddominion727 : I just tried to book a flight to ROM and AA only offered OAK-SEA-LON-ROM, SFO-LON-ROM, LAX-LON-ROM, LAX-MAD-ROM, ORD-JFK-MAD-ROM, LAX-JFK-MAD-ROM... A
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
UA/AA Pacific & Atlantic Routes From ORD posted Fri Feb 24 2006 18:23:58 by B764
UA B744 Routes From ORD posted Sun Aug 10 2008 11:36:09 by B764
AA To S. America N/s From ORD, When? posted Wed Mar 12 2008 22:25:11 by BoeingFever777
CO Announces Possible New 787 Routes From IAH posted Fri Dec 14 2007 05:11:11 by Pbb152
More AA 737 Routes From posted Wed Sep 22 2004 01:38:07 by Fuelhog
Preliminary AE CR7 Routes From ORD. posted Sat Sep 27 2003 01:07:11 by AIR757200
Non-Duplicate Routes By UA & AA From ORD? posted Thu Feb 17 2005 03:48:02 by ORD777
WN Possible Routes From CLT posted Fri Jun 22 2012 20:44:44 by southwest737500
AA New Routes Announced From LAX? posted Sun Apr 1 2012 15:12:22 by olddominion727
Southwest Possible Routes From Charlotte posted Sun Jan 22 2012 10:39:57 by southwest737500