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Airtran To Stop Serving HPN?  
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6852 times:

I got an email from Airtran saying there stopping all service from HPN and that they will still serve LGA. so my question is
when Airtran stops serving 8-12-12 who is going to pick up those slots when they leave???


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6811 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Thread starter):
so my question is
when Airtran stops serving 8-12-12 who is going to pick up those slots when they leave???

I'm guessing B6 would like to have them.

Fly



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6800 times:

Per the HPN website, the following cities are served on the following airlines. Though HPN will lose a carrier, no cities will be lost:
-ACK (9K)
-ATL (DL and FL; soon to be DL only)
-CLT (US)
-CVG (DL)
-DCA (US)
-DTW (DL)
-FLL (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-IAD (UA)
-LEB (9K)
-MCO (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-MVY (9K)
-ORD (AA, UA)
-PBI (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-PHL (US)
-TPA (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)

Those slots won't stay vacant for long... IIRC, FL fought hard to get HPN slots, and other airlines would likely fight for them. My money would be on B6 gaining more slots, but when it comes to LCCs, I wouldn't rule out NK or F9 (currently, DEN is not served from HPN). For legacies, I could see UA picking up some slots and adding DEN or IAH, or AA adding DFW; HPN lacks good westbound connections.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3507 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

They wont lose serice, but what a huge loss to ATL. Only mainline service to a huge connecting hub. Quite a shame

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinealggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

I'm a little disappointed and a little surprised that WN chose not to retain HPN. A lot of people had penciled it in as a station that would be converted to WN service.

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8903 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

Quoting alggag (Reply 5):
I'm a little disappointed and a little surprised that WN chose not to retain HPN. A lot of people had penciled it in as a station that would be converted to WN service.

I seem to recall that HPN implemented a 120,000 pound limit there in the not too distant past - allowing 717s to get in just fine (and B6's E90s) but pretty much blocking 737s and A320s. I know AA used to drop the 737-800 into HPN though prior to them going all-Eagle, but could this have been a factor?

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.

I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

The only tricky thing there is the HPN limit on passengers per hour - much easier to manage that with smaller planes than 717s.


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I seem to recall that HPN implemented a 120,000 pound limit there in the not too distant past - allowing 717s to get in just fine (and B6's E90s) but pretty much blocking 737s and A320s

i swear i saw B6 A320's there is that a new rule they implemented at HPN???



B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8903 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 7):
i swear i saw B6 A320's there is that a new rule they implemented at HPN???

Looks like you're right - checking the schedule they do have 1 daily A320 to MCO this month. Googling it there is a 120k max weight at HPN unless you've gotten special clearance, which an A320 would be over unless it was very empty, so my guess is that B6 submitted the paperwork and got the thumbs up.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

The only tricky thing there is the HPN limit on passengers per hour - much easier to manage that with smaller planes than 717s.

What about them sending the DC-9 into HPN until the 717s came in? I mean, this could be an option if they start shuffling around the CR7s and CR9s before the 717s come into full service.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinePennPal From United States of America, joined May 2004, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

They're also dropping service to SRQ in mid August.

User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5792 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 4):
Luckily per Delta's rule they cannot downgrade the type of aircraft they fly between HPN and ATL since it's over 750 miles...so they can't fly anything smaller than a CRJ-700 but I wonder if they will end any CRJ-900 service they have there.

I'm also sure they won't stop flying HPN-ATL since they have been flying it prior to FL's arrival in HPN.

I could see DL seriously cutting back on this route. Prior to FL coming in, DL only flew HPN-ATL 3x daily on a CR2. You can argue that FL stimulated the market, or that DL decided to play ball, I don't know. Either way, that's a significant increase in capacity since FL came to town about five years ago.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
-CVG (DL)

DL dropped HPN-CVG years ago, and brought it back for one summer I believe two years ago. Regardless, it doesn't operate anymore and it has been a while.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3756 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5703 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 11):
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
-CVG (DL)

DL dropped HPN-CVG years ago, and brought it back for one summer I believe two years ago. Regardless, it doesn't operate anymore and it has been a while.

The CVG mention was from the airport website, along with all the other nonstop routes. Regardless of whether there is CVG service or not from HPN, their website badly needs a redesign. In a world dominated by Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer 8/9, it looks like a site built for the days when 80% of computers used Internet Explorer 6.

[Edited 2012-08-04 10:38:22]


"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinespinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

I was disappointed to here this. Air Tran kept the fares on the ATL route pretty low and I've often been able to find decent connections to the south and west with them via ATL. I'm sure prices will be sky high once they are gone.

I don't see Frontier stepping in and B6 will likely just add more Florida frequencies.


User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5594 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
Per the HPN website, the following cities are served on the following airlines. Though HPN will lose a carrier, no cities will be lost:
-ACK (9K)
-ATL (DL and FL; soon to be DL only)
-CLT (US)
-CVG (DL)
-DCA (US)
-DTW (DL)
-FLL (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-IAD (UA)
-LEB (9K)
-MCO (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-MVY (9K)
-ORD (AA, UA)
-PBI (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)
-PHL (US)
-TPA (B6 and FL; soon to be B6 only)

Those slots won't stay vacant for long... IIRC, FL fought hard to get HPN slots, and other airlines would likely fight for them. My money would be on B6 gaining more slots, but when it comes to LCCs, I wouldn't rule out NK or F9 (currently, DEN is not served from HPN). For legacies, I could see UA picking up some slots and adding DEN or IAH, or AA adding DFW; HPN lacks good westbound connections.

HPN’s slots are not like LGA’s slots, which are based on an airplane, no matter what size, a CRJ and a B-767 would be considered the same as far as the slot is concerned at LGA.

At HPN, there is a cap on passenger capacity, 240 passengers per half hour, not counting the individual passengers, but the passenger capacity of the airplane no matter what size airplane they land on. Also there are only 6 gates at the terminal, with just 2 of them with jet ways, the others are outdoor boardings.

Also there is a perimeter rule, I believe it is about 1000 miles, but all of Florida is allowed so there will never be any trans-con service out of HPN or service to DEN, DFW or IAH or any points farther west than ORD.

None of this will ever change, this is a result of the rich Greenwich CT NIMBY’s lawsuit filed against the airport many years ago which delayed the construction of the new terminal for over 10 years. Just mention the word HPN airport expansion in Greenwich and stand back and watch the fireworks erupt.

If DL does not move in and grab some of the passenger capacity, I am sure B6 will, I highly doubt that the unused passenger capacity will remain for very long.

JetStar


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3507 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

No weight limit to my knowledge, but a pax per hour limit.

B6 would love to bring in more 320s...they can not and still be under the threshold

How about B6 to BOS? That would work!


User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4652 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
No weight limit to my knowledge, but a pax per hour limit.

B6 would love to bring in more 320s...they can not and still be under the threshold

How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

As previously posted, HPN has a 120,000 pound weight limit, this is for both dual wheel and dual tandem wheel aircraft. In comparison at LGA the limits are 170,000 for dual and 360,000 for dual tandem wheel aircraft like the B-757.

I believe the 120,000 weight limit was done to appease the NIMBY’s, along with all the other restrictions because of their fears that HPN would become a mini LGA. There is still an active NIMBY movement to close HPN entirely and make it into a park. The airport is owned by Westchester County in New York, and is a cash cow for the county so they will never close HPN, but that still doesn’t stop the rich Greenwich people from trying, yet if you look at the license plates on all the cars parked in the parking lot, a majority are from Connecticut.

Almost the entire northeast section of the airport is right on the Greenwich town line, which is also the state line as well, and that section of Greenwich is one of the wealthiest sections of town. Minimum zoning in that general area is 4 acres, and a 4000 square foot McMansion there would be considered a guest house, most of the homes there are 8000 square feet and up. The North Greenwich Homeowners Assn. is a very powerful force with deep pockets, and they can exert enough political pressure on the Town of Greenwich as well to get the town government to side with them.

I worked at HPN for almost 20 years and saw first hand how much trouble the Greenwich NIMBY’s caused when the county first announced they were going to tear down the old Quonset hut building that served as the terminal and replace it with a modern terminal.

JetStar


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

I think the E190 would be too much plane for that route. In the past it has been flown by US, CO, and 9K, never with anything larger than a B1900 (at least not to my knowledge). I'm surprised the route isn't flown by anybody anymore...but I guess unless 9K starts it again, nobody else will.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6778 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 17):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
How about B6 to BOS? That would work!

I think the E190 would be too much plane for that route. In the past it has been flown by US, CO, and 9K, never with anything larger than a B1900 (at least not to my knowledge). I'm surprised the route isn't flown by anybody anymore...but I guess unless 9K starts it again, nobody else will.

About 10 years ago, MQ flew ERJ's between BOS & HPN as well. I took that round-trip once thanks to a good weekend special fare. But there's really not much point to flying when you can drive between Westchester County & Boston in under three-and-a-half hours.


User currently offlinebexf27 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

When I was a kid I flew RT BOS-HPN on Command Airways SH-330. Air Florida had flights to DCA with 732s. This was back in the old terminal......Very kewl.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Howard Chaloner



Bexf27

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:00:48]

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:03:14]

[Edited 2012-08-05 17:13:54]


Planes I flew: 707, 727-100, 727-200, DC9, DC10, 747, L1011, 757, 767, A300, 777, PAN, F27, Shorts 330 and 360, 1900,
User currently offlinespiritair97 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 9):

I believe the average runway oength for a DC95 is around 7005 feet, while HPN's runway is only 6400 feet. I think they might be able to squeeze a DC95 into DCA's 6900 foot runway but 6400 might ge a little short. The 717 has a shorter minimum runway length so it's very possible that the 717 will be scheduled into HPN when the time comes.


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2001 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

Bob Bogash once claimed on this board or another than Pan Am did initial 707 (707-121 with JT-3A water injected engines) pilot training at HPN. I found that difficult to believe, based on the short runways and noise restrictions. Those Greenwich estates have been there for longer than 54 years.

User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4266 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
They wont lose serice, but what a huge loss to ATL. Only mainline service to a huge connecting hub. Quite a shame
Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be shocked if Delta brought the 717 into HPN once it comes on property. There's going to be a trickle-down effect with CR7s and CR9s having to go to markets where CR2s are operating, and with 7x CR7/9 on this route already for Delta, it could very easily drop to something around 4-5x daily 717s...4.5 717s in Delta's configuration would equate to the capacity Delta currently has to ATL.

I could definitely see the B717s bringing DL mainline back to HPN. They have to put them somewhere and I think FL proved, if nothing else, that this aircraft is almost a perfect size for a market like HPN. As for the chronic overcrowding at this facility, the B717 will probably only replace other aircraft on the route and therefore will only bring in incrementally more people to the airport.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 9):
What about them sending the DC-9 into HPN until the 717s came in? I mean, this could be an option if they start shuffling around the CR7s and CR9s before the 717s come into full service.

Anything is possible but I doubt it. Too noisy for the well-heeled towns that surround HPN.

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 7):
Looks like you're right - checking the schedule they do have 1 daily A320 to MCO this month. Googling it there is a 120k max weight at HPN unless you've gotten special clearance, which an A320 would be over unless it was very empty, so my guess is that B6 submitted the paperwork and got the thumbs up.

B6 used to fly A320s into HPN all the time - I recall flying to Florida on a very full Airbus a number of years ago - but I thought it was an all E190 airport now for the airline. I assumed there was some sort of rule change at the airport.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17537 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 1):
I'm guessing B6 would like to have them.

B6 loves a garbage yield slot that's a bureaucratic nightmare   Speaking of which, anyone know how HPNNAS is doing? The first few months were barely half full on average.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23058 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting spiritair97 (Reply 20):
I believe the average runway oength for a DC95 is around 7005 feet, while HPN's runway is only 6400 feet. I think they might be able to squeeze a DC95 into DCA's 6900 foot runway but 6400 might ge a little short.

DC-9-5s can use - and have used - MDW with no trouble. It's about the same amount of runway.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Post contains images richierich : Three and a half hours? There are flights between cities far closer than that! But I agree that the E190 is too big an aircraft for that route...mayb
26 jetbluefan1 : I always thought this was an odd route. NAS is nothing like the Florida destinations, which perform well and have a slight yield advantage over the J
27 richierich : Sounds great but the problem at ORD is the slots and space - B6 doesnt have them. I remember flying HPNORD in the late 1990s on a UA B737 and there w
28 Cubsrule : ORD is not slotted, and B6 has the gate space for more flights if they are interested.
29 JETSTAR : I started working at HPN in 1966 and I never heard any stories about PA using HPN for training purposes on their B-707’s. I did see President Nixon
30 richierich : Then apologies for my misunderstanding... then yes, I think 2-3 flights a day HPNORD would be great for B6 provided they can get the HPN slots (I kno
31 jfklganyc : "As previously posted, HPN has a 120,000 pound weight limit, this is for both dual wheel and dual tandem wheel aircraft. In comparison at LGA the limi
32 jetbluefan1 : Yep. ORD used to be more heavily served by B6 (4x to JFK, 3x to BOS and 1x to LGB) but now is down to only 4-5 flights a day. That's really low utili
33 JETSTAR : With HPN’s perimeter rule of around 1000 miles, I don’t know the exact miles but I remember it used to be 900 miles, which allowed HPN-ORD nonsto
34 JBAirwaysFan : PBI is just over 1000 miles from HPN. It must be 1100 miles or something.
35 HVNandrew : NAS is over 1100 miles, so it isn't that either. Is there actually a perimeter rule in place at HPN? I know about the pax limits, weight restrictions
36 Flytravel : How about AA with service to MIA?
37 richierich : I've never heard of a perimeter rule at HPN. And clearly either people are making it up (1000 or 1100 miles, etc.) or the airlines are getting permis
38 ScottB : But generally those flights are aimed mostly at connecting traffic, and BOS isn't exactly well-located for the purpose of a connecting hub. Who would
39 Post contains links GolfBravoRomeo : From http://rye.patch.com/articles/county...s-by-offering-international-flight "we [JetBlue] recently shifted from our A320 fleet to the E190’s to m
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