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6 Year Old Totals Dads Airplane!  
User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13117 times:

http://www.10news.com/news/31328161/detail.html

Apparently the kid retracted the landing gear just as the A/C touched down....

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12815 times:

Last line was funny: ''There is no word on whether the boy has been grounded as well''.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12771 times:

I want to know why he is taking a twin into Fallbrook.

User currently offlinegordomatic From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12455 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 2):
I want to know why he is taking a twin into Fallbrook.

What do you mean? I'm sure twins fly in & out of L18 often enough.



We have clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12425 times:

I flew with a guy once who had his private pilot's license once. He had a very strange practice for his passengers. He wanted everyone on the plane (a 4 place single) to sit on their hands during take off and landings. How weird! He wouldn't start the aircraft unless everyone complied.

I asked him what his reasoning was for this. He said that he had "heard" that if some people get scared while in an aircraft they will try to wrestle the controls away from you. He made everyone sit on their hands so that would be less likely to happen.

So maybe if this guy had his kid sitting on his hands this wouldn't have happened.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12304 times:

Someone's going up for adoption...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12286 times:

Isnt there a pressure sensor on the Baron that when a certain weight (pressure) is on the gear that it will not retract?

Story is fishy. Sorry daddy, did you forget to put your gear down and decided to blame your 6 year old? Classy!



By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12239 times:

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 6):
Isnt there a pressure sensor on the Baron that when a certain weight (pressure) is on the gear that it will not retract?

There is but sometimes when taxiing a plane can get "lite on it's feet" and the sensor can get fooled. Remember the sensor is there as a safety backup and should not be used as a method for controlling the landing gear.

I still find it amazing how many pilots land each year inadvertently gear up.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12223 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 4):
I asked him what his reasoning was for this. He said that he had "heard" that if some people get scared while in an aircraft they will try to wrestle the controls away from you. He made everyone sit on their hands so that would be less likely to happen.

In 1969, my mother's boss was flying her to INF (Inverness Florida) and in a mild panic, she grabbed the wheel while on short final. He ''learned about flying from that''.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineATCtower From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12213 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 7):
There is but sometimes when taxiing a plane can get "lite on it's feet" and the sensor can get fooled. Remember the sensor is there as a safety backup and should not be used as a method for controlling the landing gear.

I still find it amazing how many pilots land each year inadvertently gear up.

Yea, the 6 year old 'accidentally hitting the landing gear lever' when the plane is 'light on its feet' for less than a second, I think not. Daddy is blaming his kid. Prick.

It is sad how many pilots land gear up and believe me, I see plenty of them!



By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12202 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 8):
In 1969, my mother's boss was flying her to INF (Inverness Florida) and in a mild panic, she grabbed the wheel while on short final. He ''learned about flying from that''.

Well, I can now say that I've heard of it too. Would I make my passengers sit on their hands? No, that's just plain stupid. When that guy told me his policy I thought he was just a control freak getting his jollies with his passengers. The guy is a good pillot, but also an idiot too. If you think about it, making someone sit on their hands is going to do nothing to stop them from their actions.

If I were worried that someone may lose control while being in the air, they'd never get in my airplane in the first place.


User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 862 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11857 times:

A long shot I know.....

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 9):

Yea, the 6 year old 'accidentally hitting the landing gear lever' when the plane is 'light on its feet' for less than a second, I think not. Daddy is blaming his kid. Prick.

Been thinking about this.. and got me wondering if the 6 year old was "helping Daddy fly". Perhaps if he let the kid pull the gear lever he still had his hand on it when they touched down. If it were a little heavy, or perhaps bounced then maybe the force of the touchdown caused the kid inadvertently raise it again.


User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11584 times:

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 9):
Yea, the 6 year old 'accidentally hitting the landing gear lever' when the plane is 'light on its feet' for less than a second, I think not. Daddy is blaming his kid. Prick.

You are making such an assumption. This could be the truth - stranger things have happened in the world of aviation!



If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11386 times:

Quoting gordomatic (Reply 3):
What do you mean? I'm sure twins fly in & out of L18 often enough.

I am sure if you run the numbers, this guy nor anyone else should be. The accelerate stop distance won't work for Fallbrook.


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 837 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

....but is still legal (in a GA light twin).

User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11284 times:
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Quoting C767P (Reply 13):

Yes but there are plenty of crazy pilots out there. We had a LR55 pilot take his plane into Clearwater Air Park for fun. And believe me thats a small airport. The same guy on a different ocasion took the Challeger he was flying that day and decided to follow me around the ramp after i guided him in to a parking spot. It was so loud on the ramp that day due to coast guard C130's running their engines that are next to our ramp and I did not notice him behing me till i was almost on the other side of our ramp.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11256 times:

Quoting 26point2 (Reply 14):
....but is still legal (in a GA light twin).

No different from taking off over weight. And when someone gets injured when you can an engine on takeoff does it matter if it’s legal?

I am sure the FAA will ask him how he was planning to get out of there. If nothing else it will come up on his 709 ride.


User currently offlinecopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1105 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11182 times:

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 6):
Isnt there a pressure sensor on the Baron that when a certain weight (pressure) is on the gear that it will not retract?

Story is fishy. Sorry daddy, did you forget to put your gear down and decided to blame your 6 year old? Classy!

I was thinking the same thing. The neat thing is that the child will probably tell what actually happened if he is interviewed away from his father! It's always neat interviewing young kids!


User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11104 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 16):
No different from taking off over weight. And when someone gets injured when you can an engine on takeoff does it matter if it’s legal?

For a part 91 flight, there is no legal requirement that you have to meet an accelerate stop distance, or anything like that. Not sure how you are saying it was illegal. Heck, most GA piston twins have horrible accelerate stop distances.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 11066 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 18):

Never said it was illegal. What I am saying is does that matter?


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 19):
Never said it was illegal. What I am saying is does that matter?

Not really. You are not flying paying passengers in a commercial operation. You are flying friends and family and such and they are trusting you and taking the same chances as you the pilot. I mean you can carry passengers in an "experimental" class aircraft. Why is that much different?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinelhrnue From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9991 times:

Quoting ATCtower (Reply 6):
Story is fishy. Sorry daddy, did you forget to put your gear down and decided to blame your 6 year old? Classy!

That's what I thought too.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 16):
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 14):
....but is still legal (in a GA light twin).

No different from taking off over weight.

Taking off overweight is definitely not legal.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBE77 From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Quoting C767P (Reply 13):
I am sure if you run the numbers, this guy nor anyone else should be. The accelerate stop distance won't work for Fallbrook.
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 15):
Yes but there are plenty of crazy pilots out there.
Quoting gordomatic (Reply 3):
What do you mean? I'm sure twins fly in & out of L18 often enough.

I'm with gordo here. Unless the pilot is completely reckless, where is the problem? The runway is 2100 ft. If not at gross, a B55 needs maybe 1000 or 1200 feet to get get airborne at something comfortably above Vmc in still air. Accelerate - stop is not the standard either legally or for reasonable levels of safety...but unless you are at gross weight the math probably works out (or pretty close) anyway for accelerate/stop in a Baron with 2100 feet, especially if you throw in a bit of headwind component.

If you're not at gross or have some other special situation, at 1000 feet down the runway you're likely aware in a Baron if the acceleration is going to get you to Vmc in the next two seconds or if you should be using the next 1000 feet to stop, which is more than enough if you haven't got enough speed to fly. It shouldn't require Ace of the Base skills either, especially after the first few times on a shorter field (I used to think 3000 feet at sea level was short for a C172 with two people once upon a time, as the 'other' runway was 5000 feet where I learned. I still dig out the takeoff performance manuals if it's anywhere close to being marginal, but wouldn't need to in most cases for a well known personal airplane on a 2100 foot runway near sea level (I was based at a similar field for a few years, and got to know what the limitations were for me and the aircraft I normally fly, which is definitely not high performance...see user name.
In this case, I imagine the owner knows the performance parameters pretty well, and knows what he can safely do under what conditions after calculating it for the first 20 or 30 flights if that is where he lives.

For sure at gross weight on a hot day with no headwind it would closer than I would want, but how often would you depart for personal flying in at gross weight in a Baron anyway? For longer trips, it would be really easy to plan a fuel stop with a longer runway for the occasional time you needed to really fill the cabin. Even for the longer trips, most personal Baron's would go out with two people - say 500 lbs in the cabin with people and stuff and even with 800 lbs of fuel, it leaves you maybe 500 lbs under gross which cuts the runway req a lot. You definitely need to keep the seats / luggage / fuel / weather math in mind, but that holds true for every airplane ever built.

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 12):
You are making such an assumption. This could be the truth - stranger things have happened in the world of aviation!

I agree - it could easily be true IMHO.

Can I believe that a 6 yo would want to play with levers switches and everything else in an airplane?
Umm - yes - for sure, and here are some of my reasons:
a) I remember doing it (under perhaps better supervision since I never caused anything like this...at least not with an airplane  
b) Many, many years later I still am accused (and admit to) being a little boy at heart, and still like playing with levers and switches and everything else in airplanes.
c) When flying Young Eagles (although they are slightly older) most of them really enjoy being allowed to handle the controls and 'fly' the airplane.
d) Haven't any of the non-believers spent any time around 6 year olds? They want to play with everything!
I can so easily understand how you wouldn't think anything of it with your own child or any other 'regular' passenger with you and not pay as much attention to what they were doing as you would with a less frequent passenger (probably a lesson there).

Or, since I stopped being surprised by anything a long time ago, maybe the dad is not manning up to his screwup and trying to blame the kid.  



Tower, Affirmitive, gear is down and welded
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2308 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 8894 times:

I see King Air 200's, Navajo's, and Skyvans going into a 2200ft strip all the time. Ive personally flown the King Air 200 into a 3400ft runway with no issues as well as a Baron into 2500ft with no problems. You cant fly around everywhere planning on an engine quitting. We fly over open water in super cubs and 206's because thats the only way to get where we are going. We land on short strips in twins because thats the only strip at the destination.

Would I fly "my" 310 into 2100ft, depending on conditions, you bet. Buddy of mine keeps a Cessna 340 (ground hog) on a 3000ft grass strip. If its light, no worries, if its heavy, we went elsewhere for gas then continued on.

Its pure speculation but I think someone forgot to put the gear down.

atct



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
25 DrColenzo : Agree 100%! Nothing that weird happens that often and certainly not in that aircraft; the guy is blaming his young son for an event which, lets face
26 Aesma : The article says the plane is worth 150K, is that true ? That seems low to me. And would the damage be really severe ? Well maybe the gear is bent. An
27 BE77 : Used plane prices have dropped a LOT during the last few years (economy and all that), and a browse through Controller shows B55's available all day
28 njxc500 : Isn't this the airplane that had the gear lever in a non-standard position? Does that not make it somewhat likely that the pilot accidentally retracte
29 ak : Ya that last sentence forced a little soda out of my nose!
30 lightsaber : I'm being a cynic too. Is there any insurance benefit for a pilot to deflect blame? Lightsaber
31 canoecarrier : When I was 15 I started working at my local airport washing airplanes. A couple months after I got the job I was washing one of our rental 172RGs, I
32 bristolflyer : By 'lite on it's feet' you mean if it goes over a bump a gear could momentarily show no load? I would think that at sensor would be programmed to ign
33 AvroArrow : There is no way to program a delay in a squat switch on GA aircraft (generally speaking), they are wired in series with the lever, so the second the c
34 A320ajm : What's ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Apart from speculation, there is no evidence (official) to suggest this a cover up. A few of yo
35 threepoint : Raising the possibility that the pilot may have deflected blame to hide his own error is perfectly reasonable. Calling him names and laying down your
36 Aesma : So, nobody is seeing what I'm seeing in the photo, that the plane does not appear to have belly landed, disproving most of you naysayers ?
37 type-rated : You can be taxiing pretty fast and say a wind gust comes by, the aircraft fuselage moves about a bit from the gust. This can fool the gear sensor if
38 threepoint : Yes, it certainly seems to have been moving at speed when the gear either collapsed or was retracted. Pay attention to the propeller tips, which are
39 Flaps : Except.....perhaps when one reaches to (or calls for) the flaps to be retracted and the gear is selected instead. This is not an unheard of occurrenc
40 bristolflyer : Regardless of whether or not the father forgot to put the gear down, he is to blame for allowing the child near the controls. 6 year olds like to play
41 threepoint : Sure, like any front-seat occupant isn't immune from touching something they shouldn't. Why are we so quick to assign blame before knowing any facts?
42 Post contains images DrColenzo : On Airliners.net? We all joined the forum to discuss all things airliner no matter how dorky and make either sensible comments or, in my case, wild a
43 BE77 : Congrat's - you got at least one 'coffee through the nose' point for that! I agree with the rest of your post as well, but, as outlined in the second
44 DrColenzo : I've never been called politically correct before, even done with irony I have to admit to being dead pleased with that. That is a possibility, I wil
45 Post contains images sturmovik : An Aeroflot A310 once crashed after the captain let his son sit in his seat and play with the controls. Not implying that it's similar to this incide
46 Post contains images A320ajm : I'm sorry but petulance and pretentiousness do not impress me. However, I will add that I am scientist; I go by evidence. No matter whether I am post
47 HAWK21M : In certain professions...one needs to be a thorough professional......Its not the park....
48 Acey559 : I've heard of instances where the seat was not locked completely and on takeoff the seat started to slide aft on the rails. Natural human reaction is
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