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International Service To SEA...What's Next?  
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7725 times:
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SEA has had some significant growth in international service during the last few years. Most recently, new DXB service on Emirates and new NRT service on ANA.

What could possibly be next??? I know that the FIS facility at SEA is overwhelmed and there is very limit gate space at the S-Concourse.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3670 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7716 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Thread starter):
I know that the FIS facility at SEA is overwhelmed and there is very limit gate space at the S-Concourse.

How many and which gates are international gates at S?



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineamwest2united From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7701 times:
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HND if DL gets thier way.


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User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7540 times:
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Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 1):
How many and which gates are international gates at S?

6 gates...maybe 7. The rest of them are occupied by DL.


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7410 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7430 times:
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Quoting amwest2united (Reply 2):
HND if DL gets thier way.

Prediction: DL with HKG, HND and PVG. 1 or 2 of these routes



Made from jets!
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7244 times:
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People think SEA and inmediately think Asia

Aeromexico could comeback. Maybe Copa or an European airline


User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

I'd like to see HKG, PVG, and NGO. Once those are covered, SEA would have an excellent network to Asia with all the big destinations covered.

In terms of Europe, I think it's pretty maxed out at the moment. In addition, EK is probably hurting BA/LH/DL to an extent with their Middle East and India connections. Other than BA possibly bringing back the second daily flight in the summer, I don't see much opportunity TATL.

It would be nice to see MEX come back!


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3263 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Thread starter):
I know that the FIS facility at SEA is overwhelmed and there is very limit gate space at the S-Concourse.

Hey Wedge, isn't the real crunch for S and the FIS facility mostly during the late morning to early afternoon time frame? If a carrier operated outside those crunch hours, wouldn't there be plenty of FIS space available for more International traffic?

Quoting g500 (Reply 5):
People think SEA and inmediately think Asia

Aeromexico could comeback. Maybe Copa or an European airline

I agree something should operate to Central or South America from SEA. I think the O/D traffic is pretty low, but it would be cool to see an LA 787 operating a SEA-LIM-SCL flight 3x weekly, If they have AS providing some feed for them into SEA.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6842 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 7):
Hey Wedge, isn't the real crunch for S and the FIS facility mostly during the late morning to early afternoon time frame? If a carrier operated outside those crunch hours, wouldn't there be plenty of FIS space available for more International traffic?

There's another block of flights in the late afternoon with BA, FI, EVA and Condor during the summer. EK lingers at the international gate until 5:30PM. I think that slot is filling up.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2628 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6752 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 5):
Aeromexico could comeback. Maybe Copa or an European airline

SEA could support a non-stop to MEX or one-stop via GLD or MTY.
As for CM, the distance between SEA and PTY is major issue for CM.
One thing is those non-stop delivery flights from Boeing field with very few passengers, another a fully loaded B737-700 (because maximum range issues) flying from PTY to SEA winter-time.
An option for CM flights to SEA would be to route it via GUA (specially since CM R.O.N. planes @ GUA), which may not be so attractive as a non-stop but would be a CM B737 friendly route.
IMHO, sooner or later, SEA would probably become a CM destination, but after CM starts SFO.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6690 times:

There are at least 11 international gates at Sea-Tac. Gates really aren't the problem. The custom's facility is small and gets filled quickly with just a couple of planes n the ground (and it's a really dumpy facility). SEA has a common use policy and I think international service trumps Delta (hence why they use B concourse gates during the mid day bank).

As for MORE service, I don't think enough 787s are flying yet to get to that discussion. The cities left are small and need airplane size of 200-220 seats and maybe less than daily. And the market has to have great connectivity.


User currently offlinecargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1271 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6597 times:

Any other international service, IMO, would have to arrive at times not currently occupied by other carriers due to the small facility for clearing all those pax. That, or build another terminal, which ain't happening.

Purely speculative route potentials:

UA HKG-SEA as an eventual replacement for NRT-SEA.

DL HKG-SEA?

HX HKG-SEA, as they want to expand expand expand. Cathay isn't interested, and they already have a tiny presence via sister airline Hianan.

LA SCL-SEA, but not for a long while. Another consideration might be Bogota via LAN Columbia. AM couldn't make SEA-MEX work, not sure if these routes would work either. LAN is a partner of Alaska, however, so they could secure feed that way in some respects.

TG BKK-SEA. It won't happen, but I wish they'd return.


User currently offlinecjpmaestro From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5840 times:

Seattle seems to have a large Vietnamese and Filipino population. Could SEA sustain flights to these countries?

User currently offlinecjpmaestro From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

One more thought.....could DL do a SEA-SYD?

User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5791 times:

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 12):

Seattle seems to have a large Vietnamese and Filipino population. Could SEA sustain flights to these countries?

Doubtful - flights are very low-yielding to these destinations. Most of the existing traffic to these destinations flies over ICN with KE/OZ and TPE with BR. Fares are typically quite low given the length.


User currently offlinegegtim From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

I know DAL terminated Asian service from PDX years ago. Would it help SEA's cause if international traffic resumed at PDX? Travel between PDX and SEA is pretty easy now. Besides commuter air service there is some pretty cushy ground shuttle service between the two cities.

As far as SEA supporting service to SYD I know they opened a third runway around 2008, but I don't know how long it is.


User currently offlinealexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

UA HKG-SEA as an eventual replacement for NRT-SEA.

Couldn't agree more. I fully expect UA to take that before DL does. I think SEA-NRT will stay. Look at IAD-NRT with both NH and UA.



You mad Bro???
User currently offlinehellogorgeous From China, joined Nov 2007, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4891 times:

Cancun appears to be an unserved market. I recall AS not requesting an exemption to fly SEA-CUN a couple of years back.

User currently offlineYYZAMS From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

what's next?....Maybe AC to get a bigger plane on the YYZ-SEA route!

User currently offlineHiflyeras From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4449 times:

I'd agree that HKG is probably inevitable but don't really see any other opportunites. I think SEA is maxed out.

MEX - AM tried and dropped...poor loads
CUN- AS tried and dropped...low yields

I think AS could be successful with a SEA-GDL-MEX flight but airlines don't seem to do tag-on's like they used to. Fuel is too expensive for those short hops.


User currently offlineAS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

As much as I would love to see further expansion of SEA International operations, we need a bigger FIS or a new international terminal. A north terminal is still in the most current master plan but the current project is rebuilding the north satellite for AS.

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
6 gates...maybe 7.

I only count 4.... all 4 are on the west side of S. What are these 6-7 gates you speak of on S?? That's a lot of gates.

Quoting alexinwa (Reply 16):
UA HKG-SEA as an eventual replacement for NRT-SEA.

I would rather see UA do SEA-NRT on the 787.

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 20):
A north terminal is still in the most current master plan but the current project is rebuilding the north satellite for AS.

True. The plan to extend the North Satellite has been around for the last 13 years or so, and they have not done anything about it yet. The plan was to have the North Satellite be the international arrivals alongside with the South Satellite continuing with the overflow. In additon to the plan, they were going to demolish the current fire station (seems like they rebuilt it or did some fancy upgrade to it) and some cargo buildings to expand the N concourse. I wonder what happened to that plan. It was the talk among the employees in 1998-1999 at AS on this subject.

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 20):
we need a bigger FIS or a new international terminal.

Agreed! I think they need to stop international expansion until they get this FIS thing fixed or it is going to be declared a federal disaster area and broken beyond repair.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinetomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4325 times:
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Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 20):
A north terminal is still in the most current master plan but the current project is rebuilding the north satellite for AS.

I didn't see any plans for an FIS facility when reading about the planned North satellite renovation for AS. Does anyone know if it is in the works?

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Quoting tomassjc (Reply 22):
I didn't see any plans for an FIS facility when reading about the planned North satellite renovation for AS.

All I have read from the Seattle Times earlier this year is how the clusterbleep of the FIS is at SEA and the plans to expand it so it can solve some of the current problems. The only way to do it, according to the Port of Seattle, is to close two or three lanes at a time to remodel, in which I don't think is even a plan at all.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Quoting alexinwa (Reply 16):
UA HKG-SEA as an eventual replacement for NRT-SEA.

Couldn't agree more. I fully expect UA to take that before DL does. I think SEA-NRT will stay. Look at IAD-NRT with both NH and UA.

Where's the feed going to come from? UA is a shadow of its former self at SEA and really doesn't offer much in the way of connecting opportunities. The situation is pretty much the reverse at DL. If SEA-HKG comes back, you can bet it will be on DL metal. I see no reason to believe that SEA features much in UA's future plans, let alone when it comes to international expansion. I'll be surprised if the NRT flight lasts much longer--with NH providing *A service now and DL going up to 2x daily, I have a hard time believing UA doesn't have a higher-yielding route to put that 777 on. I'd love to see all three carriers in the market, but I'm not optimistic that UA is going to be among those who end up fighting it out.

As for some of the other possibilities...

I doubt we'll see much in the way of expansion in Latin America anytime soon. We've had enough flops with direct service to cast doubt on viability in most markets and the connections at LAX via AS and partners (including LA) seem to be sufficient for what demand there is.

PVG seems like a strong candidate and another possible target for DL...if it does come to fruition, it will be interesting to see whether it's because DL jumped on it first with their existing fleet or if it's one of the Chinese carriers with the 787 (which I suspect will become the workhorse of SEA-Asia in the coming years.)

SYD could possibly happen with the 787, but I highly doubt it would be daily service and it might take some level of devestment in LAX by QF...SYD is probably an outsider at this point, but you never know...even the most optimistic of us didn't see EK coming this year...

Another possibility that I don't see mentioned much is YUL. This would almost certainly involve AC coming in with an E-jet and given what I suspect are easy connections via the currently-served YYZ (as well as YVR), it might well be a non-starter, small metal on AC or not.

It's been a good five or so years for SEA on the int'l scene...I agree that a new FIS is badly needed and will probably open up some new opportunities, but we might be sitting on what we have for a few years to come save for some small Western Canadian markets or something in Mexico if tourism picks up again. That's nothing to sneer at, SEA has done pretty damn good for itself recently.

**Edited for some small elaborations.

[Edited 2012-08-05 04:17:10]

[Edited 2012-08-05 04:18:21]

[Edited 2012-08-05 04:20:32]


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
25 RWA380 : I agree with everything you said, well put on each issue you addressed, SEA's geography makes it a natural point of entry, Asia flights will be the m
26 BA : How is SEA-CDG doing ever since DL took over the route from AF?
27 wedgetail737 : Good to know. I had always thought DL used all of their gates on the S-concourse, only leaving like 6 or 7 gates for other international carriers. So
28 EddieDude : Maybe in a few years when the first 737-800MAX start arriving. They would allow AM to serve SEA with better economics.
29 wedgetail737 : Philippine Airlines has already expressed interest in flying to both SEA and SAN, when they become FAA Cat 1 certified. Vietnam Airlines also plans t
30 Post contains images ER757 : Me too - I miss seeing them here. Maybe when the 787's come on line - we could watch one of them line up for landing on Pac Highway again I heard tha
31 cargolex : No, I mean Hong Kong Airlines, HX. Hainan and HKA are part of the same company.
32 Gunsontheroof : Yeah, I think CX is probably out of the question for SEA. They're dug in pretty good at YVR and the lack of OneWorld connections at SEA doesn't help.
33 EddieDude : That is true. However, I don't remember very well, but a year or two ago there was a thread that discussed that CX might be interested in serving MEX
34 wedgetail737 : There were two other interested airlines in serving SEA-MEX, which were KE and Hainan. But it hasn't materialized.
35 blrsea : What does FIS stand for?
36 AS739BSI : Federal Inspection Services CX isn't coming. It will be mostly Skyteam partners unless someone can do a route with O/D alone.
37 blrsea : Thanks, is that the immigration agents who screen passengers? I hope CX comes to SEA. Maybe it would be feasible for them with the 787? TG too would
38 RWA380 : TG has flown to SEA before, leaving eventually for the greener pastures of LAX. I am not sure the range of the 787's TG is supposed to be receiving,
39 wedgetail737 : I think the chances of CX flying into SEA is pretty low, but possible. There are plenty of international airlines serving SEA on their own like Haina
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