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Hong Kong Airlines Cancels LGW From Sep  
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

We knew it would happen sooner or later, the market is so hard to compete in.

As per 04AUG12 GDS inventory display, Hong Kong Airlines is cancelling Hong Kong – London Gatwick daily service starting 03SEP12. Reservation for this flight is closed for travel on/after 03SEP12, although its website shows “sold out”.

The service was only launched in March and lasted only 6 month,


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7303 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12338 times:

No surprise. Wrong London airport, expensive timings, no feed on either end.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12594 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12268 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 1):
No surprise. Wrong London airport, expensive timings, no feed on either end.

Agree completely; a morning departure from LGW might have worked better (there's only from from LHR). Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

This aircraft seems to be going downhill quickly; they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority. They will probably survive because they have financial strength behind them, but they need some decent management for get themselves back on track.


User currently offlineacedriver From China, joined Nov 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12263 times:

Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.
It will be interesting to see how long CA's flight to LGW will last...


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2598 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12183 times:

Not surprising, but sad to see them leaving LGW, was able to catch one of their aircraft parked up in LGW while on my way to MNI in June. I honestly couldnt believe how long they have the aircraft sitting there during the day between flight.

[Edited 2012-08-04 03:20:17]


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineacedriver From China, joined Nov 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12146 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
This aircraft seems to be going downhill quickly;

There are rumours that the FAs and ground crew of this airlines is going on strike as well.
Things certainly are not going well for them at the moment....HU intervention anyone?


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7303 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 12081 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

thats what I meant by expensive timings...

Quoting acedriver (Reply 5):
There are rumours that the FAs and ground crew of this airlines is going on strike as well.

i've flown them on numerous occasions, and the service is excellent, and flights punctual.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineVS239 From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2006, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11982 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

Out of curiosity does that allow enough time for the inbound flight crew to fly back the same day? No idea if it would be, hence the question.   

[Edited 2012-08-04 03:46:57]


Who...me??
User currently offlineLondonCity From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 1523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11567 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day.

When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

Quoting acedriver (Reply 3):
Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.

Not just BA + CX. There's also non-stop competition from VS + NZ. In addition there are those ever powerful Gulf carriers with indirect flights from both London and UK regional airports. HX offered only departures from LGW with no feed traffic from the UK regions.


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2399 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11562 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Very hard to make $$$ with a full-premium aircraft based in HK. It's already difficult in LHR and JFK...

They absolutely have to retrofit it their A332s and target YVR market IMO. (provided it has the range to do so).



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11516 times:

Yip all very predictable and won't be the last of this apparent new breed of international long haul ex LGW. GIP I suppose did well to get them in the first place.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11420 times:

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

No surprise there. Who would charter an all business class A330 that needs to be back in LGW in 15 hours? That isn't even enough time for a transatlantic roundtrip.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3455 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11306 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority

So what do they do then?

Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
Poor utilisation of aircraft was another factor, because it was stuck on the ground at LGW for about fifteen hours a day

What could they really do with this time anyway? The only option to better utilize would require changing the arrival and departure times from HKG, correct?

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 6):
i've flown them on numerous occasions, and the service is excellent, and flights punctual

With 15 hours on the ground in LON, I would be very amazed if the flight didn't operate with a good on-time performance stat.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
When asked about the poor aircraft utilisation, the carrier's executives would claim that it was there intention to charter out the plane during the LGW layover. But this never happened.

What possible "charter" could this airline operate from LGW, that would allow for the aircraft to back to LGW in enough time to make the return trip to HKG? If this was supposed to be a consistent "charter" what kind of flying could they provide or offer flying out of the UK to what possible destinations?



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User currently offlineacedriver From China, joined Nov 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

Quoting VS239 (Reply 7):
Out of curiosity does that allow enough time for the inbound flight crew to fly back the same day?

Yep, the flight crew will probably be stuffed into a LD6 and shipped back to HKG same day via UPS  
Probably one of the causes for the FA strike at HX...


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7303 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10708 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
With 15 hours on the ground in LON, I would be very amazed if the flight didn't operate with a good on-time performance stat.


Never flew them to London, just to Mainland China and down to Singapore. Great service, clean aircraft, friendly crew.

Considering 70 - 80% of the traffic from China to Europe is group lead, ignoring the economy cabin was a radical decision. Adding an economy cabin would have killed per pax yield, but increased revenues dramatically, allowing them to grow the brand in Europe.

With the exception of routes like BKK and SIN which attract many fifth freedom carriers, the HKG market is not over served - there is a niche for Air Hong Kong as a value alternative to the excellent CX and Dragonair. I note that Air HK are to code share with China Eastern on all chinese services from HKG - What does this mean for the Jetstar JV plan?



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinecloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10281 times:

The flight is cancelled most days anyway. Like tonight.

Quoting acedriver (Reply 3):
Not surprising, really. HX is fighting against CX and BA on the London route, and it certainly is not a battle that HX can win.

They won't survive regardless of any competition by BA and CX. The flight's wrong from the very beginning. The whole company is wrong indeed.

The only reason people fly them is because they are cheap. On a good day they are fine but every little thing seems to have the potential to escalate into a disaster for this company. Cathay took 3 days to return to normal after the typhoon last week and this bunch is still suffering. Just check the departure board - most flights are late. Management appears to be oblivious to the scale of the problems.

The press carried a story about CAD modifying their AOC to prevent them from getting any more planes.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...ong-airlines-idINL4E8J31LM20120803

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 14):
Great service, clean aircraft, friendly crew.

Poor crew. They are very underpaid and since HX's cleaning contractor at HKIA left allegedly due to unpaid fees (as did their line maintenance contractor, fuellers and the press also reported unpaid parking charges), the poor crew were "forced to volunteer" to clean the aircraft in between flights. That's the reason for your clean aircraft.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 2):
they've been ticked off severely by the HK CAA and it's rumoured they're not allowed to use gate positions due to non-payments of fees to HK Airport Authority

So what do they do then?

They park remote & use bus to terminal.


User currently offlineHDA212 From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2012, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

This certainly doesn't surprise anyone

User currently offlineRichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6756 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
What possible "charter" could this airline operate from LGW, that would allow for the aircraft to back to LGW in enough time to make the return trip to HKG? If this was supposed to be a consistent "charter" what kind of flying could they provide or offer flying out of the UK to what possible destinations?

I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.

Alex


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3455 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 18):

I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.

That's pretty creative thinking there Alex, I couldn't come up with anything. Would a HK registered aircraft be able to operate within Europe like that, or would they have to re-register the aircraft each time they flew it within the EU? Like AF/BA used to do with Concorde flying inter-change flights to DFW in collaboration with BN.



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User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7303 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5970 times:

Qantas, from memory used to do this.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27308 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting Richcandy (Reply 18):
I "guess" flights to cities like VCE,NCE,MRS,BCN etc on behalf of high end cruise operators, might of been a market they could of looked at. However this sort of market would be kind of limited.
Quoting bestwestern (Reply 20):
Qantas, from memory used to do this.

Indeed QF used to run charters for the major cruise operators . Shame they dont do it anymore.


User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Looks official now:

http://www.morningstar.com/advisor/t...s-class-service-from-september.htm


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3455 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 21):
Indeed QF used to run charters for the major cruise operators . Shame they dont do it anymore

Guess it's ok for QF because of their charters being operated from the UK? What allowed a foreign registered aircraft to have the ability to operate rotes in the EU? 5th freedom rights?



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User currently onlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 884 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Quoting FG...

==========
"We believe that a regional model focused on Asia-Pacific is most appropriate for Hong Kong Airlines at this stage of our growth," says airline president Yang Jian Hong in a statement.
==========

This infers that a firm order for B748s and or A380s is very unlikely to happen for a long time, if ever..

[Edited 2012-08-08 06:57:46]

25 LH422 : On a mostly unrelated note, LH is also dropping LGW next winter, after having flown there only for a year.
26 N14AZ : Well, the A 380-order for 10 airframes is firm (see Airbus Orders&Deliveries spread sheet).
27 Post contains links VR-HKG : Yes, it's official: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaki..._detail.asp?id=22878&icid=3&d_str=
28 Post contains links N14AZ : Ooops, but maybe not so firm as before: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...ong-airlines-idUKL4E8J31LM20120803
29 Lutfi : Yes, firm doesn't mean will be delivered, but likely need to lose deposit if they never get delivered (or negotiate to trransfer to another aircraft o
30 IndianicWorld : Its the only thing that truly made sense all along. LGW was never going to work for it, especially using a premium only cabin. No idea what they were
31 gabrielchew : Whilst the LGW-HKG experiment was a nice idea, I never saw this lasting. If they had put a small Y cabin at the back, then there's a chance they'd hav
32 LondonCity : Perhaps ... but remember that Oasis tried a two-class B747 on this route a few years ago and that service also failed.
33 fcogafa : Probably as firm as the Virgin order! Wasn't the problem that the bi-laterals excluded this option as all the permitted Y capacity was used up by the
34 Flyingfox27 : I think one of the main reasons is, people dont mind being cramped up for 4 to 6 hours in a LCC short haul plane with no frills etc, but for 12 hours
35 Polot : You realize this was an all business class flight right? Clearly not enough people were willing to pay the extra bits for extra comfort for 12 hour f
36 LH121GLA : I think they drop LGW for winter and come back in the summer
37 LH121GLA : Not true. They did have fares with other airlines to LGW and other airlines from HKG. Whether there was any uptake, only HX will know.
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