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BA A380 Deliveries To Be Pushed Back  
User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 811 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 18010 times:

Newslink:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...liveries-to-be-pushed-back-375070/

Pushed back to 3rd quarter 2013 !!!


Are there still enough airlines left who want their A380s now (and not later)? Or is Airbus already building a backlog of aircraft in Toulouse and Finkenwerder?

[Edited 2012-08-06 06:05:47]

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3872 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 17814 times:

Quoting CARST (Thread starter):
Are there still enough airlines left who want their A380s now (and not later)?

From the way the article is worded, its not BA thats pushing the aircraft back - its Airbus, as a result of the impact of the rib cracking issues.

Quote:

Parent company International Airlines Group's chief, Willie Walsh, says it is "in discussions" with Airbus regarding a delivery date.

Walsh says the deliveries will probably be pushed back, adding that the aircraft are still "likely" to arrive in 2013 but "towards the third quarter".

That, to me, indicates that Walsh is unsure when the delivery will happen - if hes pushing them back himself, then I would expect that comment to be firmer in wording.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 17745 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 1):
That, to me, indicates that Walsh is unsure when the delivery will happen - if hes pushing them back himself, then I would expect that comment to be firmer in wording.

OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

I hope adequate compensation is being discussed.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineGRIVely From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17147 times:

Has the "final" fix for the current rib feet cracking been approved by the regulators? Any idea of how many hours that fix will take? (More or less than the 8,000 hours for the interim repair?) Why would an airline want to have aircraft that it is paying for sitting around for 16 or more weeks out of service while being repaired?

User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17088 times:

Good decision for both. The 380 will eventually arrive and is superb, but getting them with good wings will mean they will not come in and out for repairs. Once the fix is available could Airbus set up other lines, say in Sing to carry out the mods?

User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 17057 times:

Quoting col (Reply 7):
but getting them with good wings

Would be desirable one imagines....

(lol)



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2694 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16998 times:

Quoting GRIVely (Reply 6):
Has the "final" fix for the current rib feet cracking been approved by the regulators?

Not yet. They hope to get approval in autumn 2012


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5726 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14665 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

No! Safety FIRST, timeliness a distant SECOND, please.

Cracking wings is a big, expensive problem, and they're much better off fixing it before delivery than after it enters revenue service.


User currently onlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14337 times:

First VS, now BA. They're both as bad as each other   

Joking aside, this is a big deal for Airbus. I wonder if they will ever break even on the A380 (although EK seem happy to take all they can get!)



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30575 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14137 times:
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Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 8):
First VS, now BA. They're both as bad as each other.     

BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14066 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around ?



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12894 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13943 times:
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This is actually good news. I feared worse. The reality is that Airbus has an *expensive* issue and airlines want a permanent fix. Adding the down time that exceeds a pair of D-checks (one for the temp fix, one for the permanent) is not something fun to budget for in these tough time.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):
OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

Nyet.

Quoting col (Reply 4):
Once the fix is available could Airbus set up other lines, say in Sing to carry out the mods?

Are we talking pre-built wings, parts, or assembled aircraft? Multiple MRO shops will do the last. Parts might be the 'long pole,' Airbus is going to have to pay heavy expediting fees... But honestly a few tens of millions more is chump change. As to working on pre-built wings, that would require duplicate jigs. I would say buy the jigs; they'll be needed for accelerated A380 production.   I hope...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13730 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
No! Safety FIRST, timeliness a distant SECOND, please.

deffo !!!!

The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 8):
Joking aside, this is a big deal for Airbus. I wonder if they will ever break even on the A380 (although EK seem happy to take all they can get!)

This is very true, EK seem to very happy and can't get theirs quick enough....

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

I don't think for a second that VS made the order with the intention of not taking delivery... If they don't take delivery it will be because of how much the airline industry and market has changed as a whole, since the original orders were placed...



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 13443 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

Good thing they didn't specify it further as "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing 787" or they would not have been going anywhere for three years.  

That sure sounds like a seriously ignorant flight crew.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30575 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13051 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 10):
Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around?

That appears to be the case. Based on Mr. Walsh's comments, BA is not asking for a deferral.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12894 posts, RR: 100
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 12131 times:
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Quoting col (Reply 15):
Am talking about completed aircraft. SQ Engineering have worked closely with Airbus on the wing issue already and have a lot of experience, more so than any other 380 Airline.

That they have. But so have other MRO shops (LH Technic). The training is the issue, not the ability.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11788 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
That they have. But so have other MRO shops (LH Technic). The training is the issue, not the ability.

Interesting on LH, thanks for sharing. I know SQ have discussed many things with Airbus about the issue going forward, but we will all have to be patient until the fix. With the 787/380, I think we have all learnt to be patient!


User currently onlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 11735 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
BA at least placed their order with the intention of taking delivery. I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.
Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I don't think for a second that VS made the order with the intention of not taking delivery...

If nothing else they wanted the option. They certainly didn't place the order for the PR....lets face it, there hasnt been too much positive PR surrounding the A380 for a while.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

I have no problem flying on one, and I don't think for a minute that they aren't safe. The 787 (and every other "revolutionary" design before them) has had design or mechanical/structural issues. Its just a shame that neither really makes me want to take a flight just for the fun of it. Compared to an old B747 or B757 they just seem so sterile... 
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 10):
Isn't this just about Airbus pushing BA back and not the other way around ?

Seems that way. I wonder why it took this long though. Presumably both Airbus and BA were well aware that these airframes would be affected?



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10905 times:
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Quoting mikey72 (Reply 2):

OFGS...can't anyone deliver an aircraft on time these days ?

I hope adequate compensation is being discussed.

Could this actually suit BA, they are currently working on the integration of the bmi fleet. An extra month or two may actually be convenient for BA. I don't think think they had planned on a specific route launch based on the A380 delivery?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10370 times:

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 13):
That sure sounds like a seriously ignorant flight crew.

Indeed you would hope that they would be more educated but then again .....

The A380 is a fantastic aircraft to fly on and very spacious. I would certainly choose the A380 over a B747 legacy model but Id like to try the revamped B747 ie: 747-8i

[Edited 2012-08-06 16:58:47]

User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
Count me in too. I have no desire to fly on the WhaleJet, Flying Forehead, or any other name the A-380 will have.

Names as well, great reply. Well thought out based on zero flights on the 380, but what more should we expect?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
When was there any positive news?

Passenger satisfaction, based on people who actually have flown on it. But hey do passengers really count when we have your experience as gospel.

Try to be a little more unbiased, it wears thin when you have no experience of the product. HARD FACTS is the term I use.


User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3388 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 10034 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 11):
As to working on pre-built wings, that would require duplicate jigs. I would say buy the jigs; they'll be needed for accelerated A380 production.


Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9374 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 24):
Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics

This is interesting, has this been accepted as the fix method, or likely to be the road to go down. I know Boeing/Lockheed have a lot more experience in wing re-builds etc. Will be interesting to know time for each fix.


User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8921 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 9):
I am of the opinion VS placed their order with the intention of not taking delivery, instead using it as a PR move against BA with eventually swapping the order for other Airbus models.

Just like the sonic cruiser

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):

Yawn. A.net needs an ignore user option.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8542 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 26):
Yawn. A.net needs an ignore user option.

He is also going to be upset as the Red Sox beat Texas tonight - Go Sox.

By the way, do not believe that all people from USA do not like 380's. My family don't want to fly anything else, but price is a dictator. I will not tell you the most hated long haul plane as it is their own preference and national pride comes into play a little.

Anyway an ignore button would be good, along with stuck record, topic start per week restriction, and an automatic rethink your reply one.  


User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3388 posts, RR: 26
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 8662 times:
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Quoting col (Reply 25):
This is interesting,


As I understand the causes, some lay in the process of applying a major flat skin to contoured ribs and forcing it into place. Then attaching the two in a pattern that that created high stresses on the first feet fastened.. (coupled with use of some questionable fasteners) .. Visualize the torquing pattern for a standard car valve cover... do it wrong and the chance of problems increase... now multiply that times 10,000 fasteners.. lose the torque sequence (if they had one) and those poor feet just gave up.

So now that all are attached, replacing them can be done a rib at a time without the skin going BOING!!!! They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics..


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8488 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
The whole A380 issues brings back a flight crew phrase "I ain't going if it ain't Boeing & I hate flying on the ScareBus"

No it doesn't.

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 12):
I must admitt I don't think I will ever want to fly on the A380...

Then you shouldn't leave your house ever again - being mowed down by a coach is far more likely.

NS


User currently offlinericknroll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

The "Whole 380 issues" is two, one of which is an engine issue, another one of which is a manufacturing issue. There is no safety issue with the plane itself. I look forward to flying Boeing and Airbus.

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8362 times:

Further, what about the 787? 4 years late due to structural failure, fires aplenty, software failures, you name it.

The bottom line is, I'm going to hop right on either plane and not think twice.

NS


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12894 posts, RR: 100
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8070 times:
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Quoting kanban (Reply 21):
Disagree that additional wing jigs are warranted...the work can be done in the shipping fixtures or interim supporting material. wing jigs would require removal of all subsequent system hardware. They are not disassembling the wing, just changing the in-spar rib feet. if one proceeds a rib at a time the wing remains stable. however if you remove all the affected ones first, you'll play hell getting it back together with the same aerodynamics

Its all a question of precision. An assembled wing has a far stiffer root and thus it will not flex much. Maybe the jigs can be bypassed... Maybe not.

Quoting kanban (Reply 25):
So now that all are attached, replacing them can be done a rib at a time without the skin going BOING!!!! They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics..

The issue is if neighboring ribs have more significant cracks and do going 'BOING.' I do not worry about a wing assembled into an aircraft. It is the wing halves before they are mated onto the aircraft.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 28):
The bottom line is, I'm going to hop right on either plane and not think twice.

Correction: Hope on either plane and post a trip report.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

The delay could be a blessing in disguise for BA, as introducing two new types at once (787/380) was going to be a challenge. The delay alleviates this a bit....as long as the 787 deliveries aren't delayed of course!

User currently onlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3388 posts, RR: 26
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4006 times:
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Quoting kanban (Reply 25):
They may have to high some vertically challenged mechanics

Intended to say "hire" not high.


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