rising From United States of America, joined May 2010, 235 posts, RR: 1 Posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9233 times:
No surprise here.
International Airlines Group is looking at purchasing a minority stake in AMR Corporation. The deal would allow for IAG and AMR to "expand their commercial partnership and ensure the US carrier remains part of Oneworld, the global airline alliance."
IAG Chief Willie Walsh was also quoted as supporting an AMR Corporation/US Airways Group combination.
We have seen similar events in the past, some have panned out, others have not. Lufthansa was considering purchasing a stake in UAL Corporation earlier in the decade. We also saw the race to cement a deal with JAL via a minority stake. Be curious to see how this one pans out.
timboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1237 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9194 times:
Quoting rising (Thread starter): IAG Chief Willie Walsh was also quoted as supporting an AMR Corporation/US Airways Group combination.
Not a surprise - from an IAG/Oneworld point of view, and AA/US tie up would knock a competitor out of Star, and increase the connectivity options in the world's most important air travel market.
From an AA point of view though, I am yet to be convinced such a merger makes any sense.
TWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8448 times:
Quoting timboflier215 (Reply 1): Not a surprise - from an IAG/Oneworld point of view, and AA/US tie up would knock a competitor out of Star, and increase the connectivity options in the world's most important air travel market.
From an AA point of view though, I am yet to be convinced such a merger makes any sense.
Agreed! IAG simply wants to protect their intersts in the Oneworld Trans-Atlantic JSA. As for AA, A merger with US, has its pro's and its con's. The bigger question is, does it make sense now or later?
LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 8124 times:
The Financial Times has been carefully selective in quoting Willie Walsh.
What the Financial Times didn't say is that IAG is not actively looking to acquire a stake in American Airlines (or JAL) at the moment but they remain open to it.
The example Willie Walsh cited about Delta and GOL actually reinforces the point. GOL is not in an alliance but Delta's stake enabled it to partner with GOL. AA and IAG is a different story. AA and BA and Iberia are already involved in deep co-operation with membership of Oneworld and the transatlantic joint-venture. There is little to be gained beyond this through a minority stake.
mikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7490 times:
People are now questioning whether IAG's interest in acquiring a stake in AA complicates QF's potential plans with EK due to QF's cooperation with AA ?
Help somone ?
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2159 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7362 times:
If AA and US hook up, it will be a much different route map 3 years from merger day, expect some hub reductions that won't be popular with everyone, just like the rest of the past mergers.
IE...MEM, CVG, STL, MCI, PIT and more, just an unfortunate reality of doing business in a merger frenzied industry.
[Edited 2012-08-07 02:24:13]
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Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7321 times:
There goes the cash Iberia has collected over decades to have a UK based investor invest in a bankrupt US enterprise - and then UK and US complain about underfinancing of Spanish Economy... While it is likely to happen I think it would be better invested in Spain.
jumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7131 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6): There goes the cash Iberia has collected over decades to have a UK based investor invest in a bankrupt US enterprise
IAG is a listed company quoted on the Madrid and London stock exchanges. The largest single investor is Bankia of Spain [albeit they are likely to sell] who own 12% of IAG - nearly 3 times the next larger shareholding. To describe IAG as a UK based invrestor is not very accurate.
Except it won't. As I said above Willie Walsh has been selectively quoted. He is never going to rule out an investment entirely but he was clear no investment is planned at the moment.
AAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6965 times:
Frankly, it is far from clear that US would need IAG to do a transaction. The creditors might be willing to take all stock unless AMR puts stock and cash on the table.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3661 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5744 times:
Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5): If AA and US hook up, it will be a much different route map 3 years from merger day, expect some hub reductions that won't be popular with everyone, just like the rest of the past mergers.
IE...MEM, CVG, STL, MCI, PIT and more, just an unfortunate reality of doing business in a merger frenzied industry.
AA/US doesn't have redundant hubs in the way DL/NW did. The only times two hubs are fairly close, one is generally an O&D type hub while the other is a connecting hub, neither of which can fill in for the other.
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10188 posts, RR: 63 Reply 12, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5740 times:
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 12): AA/US doesn't have redundant hubs in the way DL/NW did. The only times two hubs are fairly close, one is generally an O&D type hub while the other is a connecting hub, neither of which can fill in for the other.
LAXdude1023 From Lebanon, joined Sep 2006, 6779 posts, RR: 25 Reply 14, posted (9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5522 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6): There goes the cash Iberia has collected over decades to have a UK based investor invest in a bankrupt US enterprise - and then UK and US complain about underfinancing of Spanish Economy... While it is likely to happen I think it would be better invested in Spain.
In Spain? The country whose economy is on the verge of collapse?
DFW Fan Boy: Im crude, irreverent, and blunt, but Im not clueless. I offer no apologies.
FCAFLYBOY From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5290 times:
Let's also not forget that IB did have some cash yes, but why?
Years and years and years of under-investing in their product, service and aircraft. If BA had been so complacent they would have billions banked by now!
I hardly think ANY of our European airlines are in a position to preach, most are bleeding millions. British or German or not!
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7342 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5182 times:
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9): Not to mention that IAG is domiciled in Spain and only operationally located in the UK.
That may have been done for legal reasons or the deal was just negociated that way. Willie Walsh is the CEO of IAG and works in London, BA is the one that runs this show. Iberia couldn't even operate their Latin American affiliates, IB is not going to teach BA anything. Iberia's "core" Latin to Europe routes are being invaded by LH and Air France, AF flies from CDG to Santiago, Chile nonstop.
The sale of TAP will have lots of negatives in Madrid, if Lufthansa gets it they will own Brazil.
LHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 740 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (9 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4931 times:
There is actually a lot going on behind the scenes to invest in the Iberia brand and product and the Madrid hub. Also some of the recent BA customer service initiatives, like the "Know Me" programme to equip BA cabin crew with iPads are being replicated at Iberia. It is going to take time and it's not always going to be easy, but there is huge potential for Iberia in the long term.
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3661 posts, RR: 8 Reply 20, posted (9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4506 times:
Quoting commavia (Reply 13): ... with the possible (likely?) exception of PHX.
I hope you are talking about PHX vs. DFW and not PHX vs. LAX...
I fully believe PHX will lose some connecting traffic to DFW but its huge O&D base and Southwest location will ensure it keeps running as some sort of hub, even if it's shrunk to CLE levels. It just can't be fully assimilated by other hubs.
PHX is hardly a bastion of O&D. That being said, it does hold its own.... for now.
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21): It just can't be fully assimilated by other hubs.
Certainly not by LAX. Parker had a meeting with some PHX-area mayors and assured them that PHX would remain a hub. Then again, UA said the same things about CLE.
However, reliable scuttlebutt is that PHX will lose the Hawaiian flying to LAX, while gaining smaller routes from LAX (and maybe a few widebodies). LAX is very expensive operationally compared to PHX, but can offset that somewhat by the higher traffic flows.
smi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4210 times:
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 4): People are now questioning whether IAG's interest in acquiring a stake in AA complicates QF's potential plans with EK due to QF's cooperation with AA ?
I don't think that it will have an impact at all ( I still don't see the benifit to either QF or EK, a QR / QF tie up is far more likely, but different thread ), I feel formalised alliances are over rated on A.net. Oneworld, Skyteam and Star are only there as branding for products. The same agreements and alliance could occur behind the scenes without a 'branded' alliance. Alliance loyalties are a nice notion here on A.net. But in the real world only competition law and profit matter when it comes to alliances.
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2159 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (9 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3972 times:
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
AA/US doesn't have redundant hubs in the way DL/NW did. The only times two hubs are fairly close, one is generally an O&D type hub while the other is a connecting hub, neither of which can fill in for the other.
If AA/US marry, JFK, PHL, DCA, CLT, MIA are all on the east coast, then there are the big two in the middle ORD and DFW, well placed, then there is the two out west, PHX and LAX, I'd be surprised if AA didn't dehub PHX and build LAX, and IMO, CLT would most likely suffer as well, I'd expect the combined force to keep both JFK and PHL, with a nice little domestic hub as well at DCA.
Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 23):
Other way around. PHX is the connecting hub, LAX is O&D. US has about 300 flights from PHX, and AA has about 200 from LAX.
Exactly why I'd expect LA 9the much larger market) would be part of the new AA long after PHX is reduced down to hub flying only. Then there is the Pacific Northwest where AA is almost non-existent, maybe the AS/AA agreement will keep AA happy enough, keeping them from trying any harder up here.
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25 AirbusA6: Of course, many years ago BA had a significant stake in the old US, which didn't end happily...
26 Maverick623: Prepare to be surprised. As I said earlier, there is simply no room to "build" LAX, let alone absorb even half the traffic PHX has. If PHX does ever
27 VV701: 24.6 per cent. But then BA started to court AA. So if AA and US do decide to cohabit, that barrier disappears. What goes around comes around?
28 AAplat4life: It looks like Horton has soften his tone somewhat on a US merger, and they'll start talking about it in a few weeks. He hasn't ruled out remaining ind
29 avek00: I think the softer tone is part of a masterful play to keep AMR independent -- the numbers for independent vs. merged AA will look vastly different o
30 ckfred: Once AA comes out of bankruptcy, it will be a leaner carrier with a much better cost structure. DL and UA seem to be doing quite well, post Chapter 1
31 Talaier: BA doesn't run anything because it doesn't exist anymore as a separate entity. And actually, IB has a lot to teach BA, particularly in terms of finan
32 Flighty: Those cities are notoriously price competitive. That is why no megahub other than ORD-UA has thrived in any of those glamor cities IMO. In my analysi
33 PezySPU: So is ex BA's CEO now IAG's CEO... But do tell us more about IB's expertise in finances. Looking at financial results of the two carriers, I can see
34 Asturias: The creation of IAG lined the pocket of many an executive on both sides, but ultimately it's doing no favor for either airline, BA or IB. BAA is comp
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