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Pan Am@ORD In 1973  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 579 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

At that time Pan Am had a ORD-MBJ-KIN-PTY with a 727-21 which didn't last long.That was Pan Am's only Chicago service in addition to some all cargo flights. What happened to their ORD-Europe flights? In the late 1970s Pan Am had all Cargo flights and no passenger service at ORD.

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3835 times:

I'm pretty sure PA had an ORD - LHR flight operating in 1973.

User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5231 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting Stratacruiser (Reply 1):


I'm pretty sure PA had an ORD - LHR flight operating in 1973.

The only service PA had at ORD in '73 was one daily flight ORD-MBJ-KIN-PTY

TWA was the US operator on ORD-LHR.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

Ah the more restrictive days of government influence, A different world that didn't always allow an airline to get routes that fit into their system route map, and the myriad of exotic destinations that were served once weekly and didn't make any money but were flown because they were given the route.

Indeed your right, according to departed flights in 1973 ORD-MBJ-KIN-PTY with a 727, was Pan Ams only ORD route, by 1979 ORD was all cargo service BRU-LHR-JFK-ORD-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD.

By 1980 the all cargo service was still in place at ORD, but now it was BRU-LHR-ORD-LAX-HNL or LHR-BRU-ORD-LAX-HNL.

By 1982 PA was flying a sole passenger 72S ORD-JFK to connect with the world at JFK.

By 1985 PA was flying ORD-JFK, ORD-MIA on 72Ss and a ORD-DTW-LHR direct flight with a 747.

By 1987 PA was only flying the ORD-JFK and ORD-MIA both on 727s



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

The U.S. considered Pan Am's Europe service monopolistic, although TWA had transatlantic service also. Pan Am was not allowed to fly from both ORD and IAD (or BOS, I forget) so they had to choose which route they would discontinue.TWA was then offered the ORD-LHR route.

User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 3):
Indeed your right, according to departed flights in 1973 ORD-MBJ-KIN-PTY with a 727, was Pan Ams only ORD route, by 1979 ORD was all cargo service BRU-LHR-JFK-ORD-SFO-HNL-NAN-SYD.

By 1980 the all cargo service was still in place at ORD, but now it was BRU-LHR-ORD-LAX-HNL or LHR-BRU-ORD-LAX-HNL.

By 1982 PA was flying a sole passenger 72S ORD-JFK to connect with the world at JFK.

By 1985 PA was flying ORD-JFK, ORD-MIA on 72Ss and a ORD-DTW-LHR direct flight with a 747.

By 1987 PA was only flying the ORD-JFK and ORD-MIA both on 727s


View the Pan Am ORD schedules:

April '73 (727 to MBJ)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973p8.html

April '79 (note all cargo ops to JFK and SFO)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA042979p5.html

April '80 (747 pax to JFK 2x per week)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA042780p8.html

September '82 (727 daily to JFK)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA090882p8.html

October '85 (747 to LHR via DTW, 727 to JFK & MIA)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA102785p22.html

March '87 (727 to JFK & MIA)
http://www.departedflights.com/PA020187p15.html



....



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17824 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 3):
Ah the more restrictive days of government influence, A different world that didn't always allow an airline to get routes that fit into their system route map, and the myriad of exotic destinations that were served once weekly and didn't make any money but were flown because they were given the route.

...once weekly for a bizillion dollars in a crappy seat. Golden. Age.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

Pan Am was awarded Chicago-Europe (and Detroit-Europe) authority in 1954. Initially, flights were operated out of MDW, but shifted to ORD when that airport became Chicago's main airport. Most flights stopped at DTW enroute to Europe; PA never served YIP, and was the first airline since before World War II to use DTW on a scheduled basis.

Pan Am suspended their ORD-Europe flights in the early 1970s. PA had briefly flown ORD-LHR with 747s prior to the suspension; transportation writer David P. Morgan flew in seat 1A on a PA 747 on this route, and shared his experience in the short-lived Airliners International.

TWA was also awarded authority to serve Chicago - Europe and Detroit - Europe around the same time as Pan Am.

In 1974, PA agreed to relinquish their Chicago / Philadelphia / Los Angeles - London authority as part of the much larger Pan Am / TWA route swap; TWA relinquished Washington / Detroit - London at the same time.

In 1977, the US and Great Britain signed the Bermuda II agreement, which said only one US carrier could serve LHR, with the exception of New York and either Boston or Los Angeles, which could be served from LHR by both PA and TW. Pan Am had relinquished Los Angeles-LHR as part of the PA / TW route swap, but subsequently chose to re instate LAX-LHR, and suspend BOS-LHR, after the agreement was signed. TWA was affirmed as the sole Chicago-LHR airline as part of the Bermuda II agreement.

In 1989, American agreed to purchase TWA's ORD-LHR authority for $195 Million, with the condition that AA would move the route to LGW to remain in compliance with Bermuda II. Pan Am filed to get TWA's authority for free, so ORD could continue to be served from LHR by a US carrier. The US Department of Transportation stalled on both AA's and PA's applications until PA and TW agreed to sell most of their LHR routes to UA and AA.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
Initially, flights were operated out of MDW, but shifted to ORD when that airport became Chicago's main airport

Didn't they use ORD as soon as it opened?

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
Most flights stopped at DTW enroute to Europe

All? their prop flights stopped at DTW.

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
PA never served YIP, and was the first airline since before World War II to use DTW on a scheduled basis.

Someone used DTW before WWII?


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2264 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 8):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
Initially, flights were operated out of MDW, but shifted to ORD when that airport became Chicago's main airport

Didn't they use ORD as soon as it opened?

I don't know the exact date they moved to ORD - can any of our PA or ORD experts let us know how long after ORD moved did PA move there.

Quoting timz (Reply 8):
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 7):
PA never served YIP, and was the first airline since before World War II to use DTW on a scheduled basis.

Someone used DTW before WWII?

DTW is the oldest passenger airport in the Detroit area that is still in use. The original pre-DTW passenger airport for Detroit was Ford Airport, which was located across the street from the Henry Ford Museum / Greenfield Village complex in Dearborn; it has long since been turned into a test track.

DTW opened three years before DET, and fifteen years before YIP. It had scheduled passenger service until DET opened, at which time all of the scheduled airlines serving DTW moved to DET. However, a large natural gas storage tank was located next to the runway at DET, which meant the ceiling had to be higher for landings at DET than at DTW. American Airlines actually maintained backup passenger facilities at DTW prior to World War II, because so many flights were forced to divert to DTW due to DET being below minimums.

The pre-World War II passenger complex at DTW was located at the northeast corner of the airport, kitty corner across the street from the NW 255 crash site. It's been years since I was in that part of the airport; I don't know if any of the old buildings are still there.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Didnt PA in the 1980s fly ORD-SFO?

User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6902 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

The 7/56 OAG shows PA at Midway, the 12/56 says ORD. (Surprised to see that BOAC was at Willow Run in 7/56.)

User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2407 times:

I always thought that was a odd route for Pan Am out of ORD in 1973.But I think Pan Am might have done that to compete
with Air Jamaica which also did ORD to Jamaica also then.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 10):
Didnt PA in the 1980s fly ORD-SFO?

Yes, in the January 1983 OAG they had one daily ORD-SFO flight with an L-1011-500. It must have started sometime after September 1982 as it wasn't in their timetable dated September 1982.

In the February 1985 OAG it still existed but was a 727-200. In their timetable dated October 1985 it was gone. Their only ORD flights then were two daily 727-200s, one each to JFK and MIA.


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