PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 5110 posts, RR: 14 Posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11215 times:
Hi all, sorry if this is old news or an old topic or something, but I was on the phone with my uncle who works for and has connections to the higher-ups at DL and I asked him about the aging 744s. The one thing he brought up that caught my attention was the possibility of DL placing an order of 10-15 77Ws to replace the 744s. He never said if it was something DL was actually pursuing, but something that he overheard "deep discussion about."
What do you all think? If the 77X takes a while to matriculate, do you think DL will possibly have the 77W in their fleet? The 744s have about 330 seats inside them, do you think that matters when choosing a replacement?
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 5110 posts, RR: 14 Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11159 times:
Quoting zkokq (Reply 1): How long ago were the DL refits? Not that long I thought? So I would assume the 744 will be in DL's fleet for a while yet.
Well I think i forgot to mention, this was discussion for down the road, not for now. The retrofits mean that the 744s will be in service for at least another 5-7 years at the least
N809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 179 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 11144 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2): Well I think i forgot to mention, this was discussion for down the road, not for now. The retrofits mean that the 744s will be in service for at least another 5-7 years at the least
I think it is safe to say with a 5-7 year time frame Delta would ideally be holding out for the 777X. While the new interiors almost certainly extended the life of the 744 with DL, they also operate one of the oldest fleets of the type.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6540 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11063 times:
Quoting zkokq (Reply 1): How long ago were the DL refits? Not that long I thought? So I would assume the 744 will be in DL's fleet for a while yet.
There' happening right now. No it's safe to say that they will be around for quite some time. At least until the ROI is realized.
Looking at it plainly, capacity will prevail over frequencies. As it is, the routes that see the 744 is by and large 1x daily (save for NRT-HNL). It's apparent that they need the capacity more. So i'd venture that the 747 replacement will be an a/c of "like" seating density.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
rotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 405 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11029 times:
If I were to bet my own money Id bet that DL would hold on to the 744's as long as possible. Id give another 2 or 3 years before they place an order. We have to keep in mind the backlog stands at more than 300 and by the time DL decides to place an order for B777-300ER's the 777-8/9x may be a better replacement for the 330 seats that the B744's now have.
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 5110 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 11031 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4): It's apparent that they need the capacity more. So i'd venture that the 747 replacement will be an a/c of "like" seating density.
So now we're talking about the 748
Quoting N809FR (Reply 3): I think it is safe to say with a 5-7 year time frame Delta would ideally be holding out for the 777X. While the new interiors almost certainly extended the life of the 744 with DL, they also operate one of the oldest fleets of the type.
Well this may be 100% unrelated but the ex-DHL DC-8s lasted about 45 years
RWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2221 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10960 times:
DL is no stranger to old aircraft, look at the DC-9's still flying around. The 744's likely are lower cycle aircraft (compared to years) and could be flying for 10 years or more, depending when DL orders their replacement, I wouldn't say never to he 748, maybe that is why DL wants to wait a few more years before deciding a new aircraft type. DL can sit back just enough to see which direction the economy goes, and how that is reflected in passenger numbers and demand. Smart move IMHO.
Next Flights: AS PDX-SAN-LIH on 739/738 in F, HA LIH-HNL-KOA-OGG on 717 in Y, AS OGG-PDX on 738 in F
N809FR From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 179 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10943 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6): Well this may be 100% unrelated but the ex-DHL DC-8s lasted about 45 years
The big difference here is that a cargo airline does not require interior refurbishments, nor do they see nearly as high of utilization as most passenger aircraft. Sure, FedEx may operate planes long since phased out by most commercial airlines, but they do not operate at the same margins as DL and as such do not require the lower operating costs most commercial airlines require. Even so, more and more with the rising fuel costs airlines are stuck deciding whether there is an advantage to have minimal to no payments on an aircraft or paying what is, in comparison to more modern aircraft, a horribly inefficient aircraft. If the price of oil continues to rise, I promise there will be a marked increase in the number of new orders with airlines trying to replace aging fleets as quickly as possible.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6540 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10794 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6): So now we're talking about the 748
Not necessarily. The 77W may serve DL just as well. The J/Y seating capacity is close enough. But we really don't know.
Well, if we look at the way things have been trending, DL seems to order new a/c right when they need them and not a minute before. Sure, they could have made a big splah and order 40+30 787s to replace their 767s but they chose to refurbish the fleet instead. 95% of the 763ERs are owned.
Some say, "why didn't they order the 739 MAX? over the NG 739ER?" Simple. Because they need the a/c now, not 5 years from now. Look at it this way and it'll make sense. By way of CO, UA already has a very large fleet of 739s to play with. When you consider that their recent order was pretty much split, you'll see that what DL did wasn't exactly dumb. UA did the same thing. By the numbers, both will have about the same number of 739ERs. DL just chose not to place order right now for the max. The new (UA) 739ER top-off order i'd suspect will be about enough to allow them to retire a sizable portion of their 757 fleet. Which is what DL is aiming to do with this order (along with older 320s and 763s).
So, with all that being said, if I were a betting man i'd say DL will start with a conservative order for the "tried and true" 77W when the time is right. Price will be about bottomed out, relative to new a/c by then as well.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (10 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 10682 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9): Some say, "why didn't they order the 739 MAX? over the NG 739ER?" Simple. Because they need the a/c now, not 5 years from now.
B739 is also cheaper than B739 MAX up-front. If you do the math, list price of an NG bird is 15-20% lower than a MAX bird which is about the same figure(s) as expected fuel burn difference(s).
Delta likes to save money up front, as soon as possible, rather than over the "long term." Look at their future 717 fleet.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9): Price will be about bottomed out, relative to new a/c by then as well.
Which puts the 77W, and even the 748, in a very desirable position.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8631 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10582 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 6): So now we're talking about the 748
Unlikely. I'd give anything with more than 2 engines about a .000000000000000000000000000000001% chance at Delta.
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9711 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10559 times:
No chance for the 77W. The 744s are just being refurbished, so will stay for most of the decade. By then the 77W will be old news. It would be like buying a new 744 in 2005.
I hope for 748Is, but as there is an ugly thing called 777-9X at the horizon, I fear the notoriously blind beancounters might go that sad road.
Btw, before they replace the 744s, may I say DL have 767s which are older and should go earlier.
aircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1492 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10533 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter): Hi all, sorry if this is old news or an old topic or something, but I was on the phone with my uncle who works for and has connections to the higher-ups at DL and I asked him about the aging 744s. The one thing he brought up that caught my attention was the possibility of DL placing an order of 10-15 77Ws to replace the 744s. He never said if it was something DL was actually pursuing, but something that he overheard "deep discussion about."
there's always bound to be rumours no matter who the source is coming from upper management, pilots, crew schedulers etc.
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8631 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10426 times:
Quoting na (Reply 12): Btw, before they replace the 744s, may I say DL have 767s which are older and should go earlier.
Er...huh?
the first 744 was built on 01/89
the first 763ER was built 01/90
NWA had 6 in 89 and 5 in 90. the rest came in 99(4) and 02(2)
Delta had 6 ERs in 90, 6 in 91 3 in 92 and 2 in 93. the rest cam from 95 to 01 (and note, 6 of the early builds are the 767-3P6ERs.)
Delta has the oldest 747 fleet I'm pretty sure. This is the reason why the 744's are just getting new seats, while the 767s are getting new everything. They will be here a loooong time to come.
This isn't true at all. The 777-300ER will likely have lower price tags over the 777X. Just like with the 737-932ER order, the 777-300ER would have a very good shot. (and it helps that they would both have GE90s)
"Oh look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky! Look at the sUGAr falling out of the sky!" LM 1922-2011 Go Dawgs! G.A.T.A.
As the 787s have been postponed to 2020 yes that looks likely unless they order Airbusses.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 14): The 777-300ER will likely have lower price tags over the 777X.Just like with the 737-932ER order, the 777-300ER would have a very good shot.
Who would want to buy 77Ws oldies by the end of this decade with the A350-1000 a reality, the 777X likely soon coming, and considerably upgraded A380s certainly also on the horizon. I repeat what I said: by the end of this decade ordering 77Ws would be like ordering 744s in 2005. Ok for someone who needs fleet add-ons, but stupid for anyone not already operating the type. In the 20s the 77W will be aging metal, technically seen in a position the 744 is now.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6540 posts, RR: 11 Reply 16, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9896 times:
Quoting na (Reply 15):
Delta does have 8 763s (non-ER) built in 1987/88. These are some of the very oldest widebodies still flying for its original owner.
Has nothing to do with this argument. We're talking about a replacement for the 747 first off. Second off, even if we skew the topic a litte bit (talking about 767s here) the non ERs still have no bearing. They do not fly international routes and are in fact out the door over the next 5 years as the 739s come on property).
Quoting na (Reply 15): Who would want to buy 77Ws oldies by the end of this decade with the A350-1000 a reality, the 777X likely soon coming, and considerably upgraded A380s certainly also on the horizon. I repeat what I said: by the end of this decade ordering 77Ws would be like ordering 744s in 2005. Ok for someone who needs fleet add-ons, but stupid for anyone not already operating the type. In the 20s the 77W will be aging metal, technically seen in a position the 744 is now.
What you're quoting explains it pretty clearly. Your view shows that you don't know much about Delta's fleet planning and that's fine but to make absolutes is a bit unfair and quite contrary to Delta's track record (showing you don't know what you're talking about )
I don't think you realize that DL doesn't care about an a/c being "old news". The MD90 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 60 more 738s as they seating capacity is the exact same). The 717 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 80 E190s. The 747 is "old news". They could have placed on order for 16 77Ws but chooses to spend $$$ to refurb them. The 767 is "old news" but they're spending money to refurb them. In fact, they deferred the NW 787 order.
My money is still on the 77W, or possibly the 748.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4292 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9623 times:
I think the 777-9X is the aircraft we should be looking at as a 744 replacement, not because it's new or because the 777-300ER is "old news," but because it will match the capacity of the replaced 744s the closest.
DL will work with older aircraft, but they're also not shy about buying new aircraft when the new aircraft provide the best return. I think the 777-9X can generate enough additional revenue on current 744 routes to make it worth the extra money relative to the 777-300ER. If Boeing offers substantial discounts on the 777-300ER during the transition, then that could change.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6839 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9507 times:
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16): I don't think you realize that DL doesn't care about an a/c being "old news". The MD90 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 60 more 738s as they seating capacity is the exact same). The 717 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 80 E190s.
The big difference here is the MD 90s and 717s that DL buys now are second hand aircraft that nobody else wants, DL got a very good price on them. Buying shiny new 737s and EJets would have costs way more.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16943 posts, RR: 57 Reply 19, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9046 times:
Mr. Anderson has spoken about his general fleet philosophy. He would rather keep older aircraft in the air that have been paid down and trade higher operating costs for lower ownership costs. The NW merger brought a lot of new capacity on board, not all of which was actually needed. For this reason, the 787 orders have been deferred.
Also, while NW was the 744 launch customer, some of their fleet is still relatively new.
DL has not operated an aircraft larger than the 772/L or MD-11 in a very long time. They briefly had 741's, but didn't hang on to them. I am not sure if their general fleet philosophy will call for anything larger than a 744. Perhaps a 779X, but I'd bet that they stick with the 778X and smaller.
mpdpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 935 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8600 times:
Quoting columba (Reply 18): The big difference here is the MD 90s and 717s that DL buys now are second hand aircraft that nobody else wants, DL got a very good price on them. Buying shiny new 737s and EJets would have costs way more.
That is exactly what people are saying a new 77W at the end of the production run will be a lot cheaper than a 77X at the beginning of its production run. Much like buying the 739 instead of the 739MAX. Also they might be able to get some 77W second hand around the time that the 77X takes to the air as airlines like Singapore and Emirates retire their 77W in favor of the new type.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4292 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8249 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19): I am not sure if their general fleet philosophy will call for anything larger than a 744. Perhaps a 779X, but I'd bet that they stick with the 778X and smaller.
The 777-8X as presently envisioned is not going to make any sense for most operators, and certainly not for anyone who's not also operating the -9X.
If they don't want something the size of the -9X and 744, then they really have just two logical choices when the 744s reach the end of their useful lives around 2020:
1) Order A350-1000s, or
2) Downsize into their existing 772s and new 787-9s or -10s.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
That's probably true - NW was the first airline to operate the 744 and unless I'm mistaken, those early deliveries are still in the fleet.
I'm inclined to agree with those that think DL will eventually go with the 777-X if/when it's offered. I'd really love to see a 748i order, but I am afraid it's not in the cards.
mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9273 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7050 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19): They briefly had 741's, but didn't hang on to them.
Mainly because DL's route structure was much different then......the only international routes were to Canada, the Caribbean and Venezuala.....Bermuda, too.......we weren't much more than a regional airline back then (old definition) and the only REAL international work the 747s got were in the interchange with PA to LHR and FRA.
20/20 hindsight being what it is, they probably wish they had kept those five 747s as they were awarded ATL-LGW about 2 years after they were off the property.
[Edited 2012-08-07 14:25:38]
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
B757forever From United States of America, joined May 2010, 256 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6592 times:
FWIW, I seem to recall Delta's last 10K filing showing them still sitting on fourteen 777 options. Hmmm, that is the same number of active 744s in the fleet...
ordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5659 times:
I have no doubt this has been discussed, but I would agree if they spend all that money to refit the 744s, it would not make much sense to be getting rid of those birds.
Delimit From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1439 posts, RR: 1 Reply 28, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5592 times:
I wouldn't be surprised to see 77Ws replace the 744s at all. The capacify loss is minor, and would come out of Y. DL has more seats flying around than thy need currently anyway.
I would be shocked by a 748 order, unless Boeing gave them on hell of a deal.
cokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1111 posts, RR: 9 Reply 29, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5569 times:
To add to any rumor one way or another, we just got word all F/A's have to be 777 qualified by this fall.
Regardless of base.
Alnicocunife From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5115 times:
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 29):
To add to any rumor one way or another, we just got word all F/A's have to be 777 qualified by this fall.
Regardless of base.
All F/A's being qualified on the 777 is a function of PMDL not have all F/A qual'ed on all PMDL aircraft before the merger. Now with complete F/A integration ALL F/A's will be qual'ed on ALL aircraft types. This has nothing to do with the question of Delta's fleet adding 77W's or not.
Western727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 584 posts, RR: 4 Reply 32, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4822 times:
PHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 5110 posts, RR: 14 Reply 33, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4573 times:
Quoting N809FR (Reply 8): The big difference here is that a cargo airline does not require interior refurbishments,
Ahh that is true, but then again the 744 has refurbishments
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9): So, with all that being said, if I were a betting man i'd say DL will start with a conservative order for the "tried and true" 77W when the time is right. Price will be about bottomed out, relative to new a/c by then as well.
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 11): Unlikely. I'd give anything with more than 2 engines about a .000000000000000000000000000000001% chance at Delta.
Maybe you're right
Quoting Delimit (Reply 28): I would be shocked by a 748 order, unless Boeing gave them on hell of a deal.
I could see Boeing trying to cut them a deal, especially if DL looks at the A3510
seabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 4292 posts, RR: 4 Reply 34, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33): I could see Boeing trying to cut them a deal
I could too... I just don't think it would succeed. The 748 is very big, but doesn't have the CASM advantage needed to overcome its large size. Either the 77W or the 777-9X as presently envisioned would make more sense for a 2020 replacement of 744s.
Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
DeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 8631 posts, RR: 8 Reply 35, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
Quoting na (Reply 15):
Delta does have 8 763s (non-ER) built in 1987/88. These are some of the very oldest widebodies still flying for its original owner.
Ok....I thought we were talking about comparable aircraft.
and FWIW the 763As will be replaced with 739s.
Quoting na (Reply 15):
Who would want to buy 77Ws oldies by the end of this decade with the A350-1000 a reality, the 777X likely soon coming, and considerably upgraded A380s certainly also on the horizon. I repeat what I said: by the end of this decade ordering 77Ws would be like ordering 744s in 2005. Ok for someone who needs fleet add-ons, but stupid for anyone not already operating the type. In the 20s the 77W will be aging metal, technically seen in a position the 744 is now.
*sigh* I'll try this one more time.
77W will likely be cheaper on the price tag than the 777X. Just like with the 739
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
What you're quoting explains it pretty clearly. Your view shows that you don't know much about Delta's fleet planning and that's fine but to make absolutes is a bit unfair and quite contrary to Delta's track record (showing you don't know what you're talking about )
this
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
I don't think you realize that DL doesn't care about an a/c being "old news". The MD90 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 60 more 738s as they seating capacity is the exact same). The 717 is "old news" (they could have just as easily ordered 80 E190s. The 747 is "old news". They could have placed on order for 16 77Ws but chooses to spend $$$ to refurb them. The 767 is "old news" but they're spending money to refurb them. In fact, they deferred the NW 787 order.
this
Quoting columba (Reply 18): The big difference here is the MD 90s and 717s that DL buys now are second hand aircraft that nobody else wants, DL got a very good price on them. Buying shiny new 737s and EJets would have costs way more.
not really. You can compare a 77W order to the 739 order....if the newest thing is what Delta wanted they would have ordered the MAX. not NGs.
KDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4263 times:
Quoting rotating14 (Reply 5): If I were to bet my own money Id bet that DL would hold on to the 744's as long as possible. Id give another 2 or 3 years before they place an order. We have to keep in mind the backlog stands at more than 300 and by the time DL decides to place an order for B777-300ER's the 777-8/9x may be a better replacement for the 330 seats that the B744's now have.
I think this is about right. Look how long they kept the NW DC-9's in the fleet. They will get every last cycle out of those 744 birds before they go to the desert.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6540 posts, RR: 11 Reply 37, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4117 times:
Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 36): I think this is about right. Look how long they kept the NW DC-9's in the fleet. They will get every last cycle out of those 744 birds before they go to the desert.
And still chugging along! The end of the tunnel seemed near in 2011 then they said "we'll keep them till the fall of '12". Now they're seeing, "we'll keep them till the fall of '13". LOL. I do think that next year will be the last for the remaining few though.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
frigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 38, posted (10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2861 times:
Quoting na (Reply 12): No chance for the 77W. The 744s are just being refurbished, so will stay for most of the decade.
I agree it means DL plans to hang on to their 747s for a while But no guarantees. If it is no longer profitable to operate them, they'll go, new seats or not. Look at KL's MD11 fleet. They have had new interiors only a few years ago, but the first one is already parked and 3 more are to follow this year. And the replacement is: guess what, old metal in the form of A333s. But still way more efficient.
Quoting na (Reply 15): Who would want to buy 77Ws oldies by the end of this decade with the A350-1000 a reality, the 777X likely soon coming, and considerably upgraded A380s certainly also on the horizon. I repeat what I said: by the end of this decade ordering 77Ws would be like ordering 744s in 2005. Ok for someone who needs fleet add-ons, but stupid for anyone not already operating the type.
Ah, but DL already operates 77E and 77L, and the latter is just a short version of the 77W. But I agree it will be very unlikely for DL to order new 77W's. I can see them taking used 77W's though, especially after EK's leased birds expire.
I don't see DL ordering A35J's or 777-9X anytime soon. They'll want to see them in service first I think. Perhaps used 77W's as a temporary solution, but DL may even decide for an all 787 widebody fleet. Who knows.
papatango From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 500 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2577 times:
raggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 959 posts, RR: 1 Reply 43, posted (10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1683 times:
OT, sorry, but couldn't resist:
Wow, look at that NW livery on the top left of those four pics at the bottom of Viscount724's post.
Now that's a nice paint-scheme!
GSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2756 posts, RR: 2 Reply 44, posted (10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1382 times:
Quoting KDAYflyer (Reply 36): I think this is about right. Look how long they kept the NW DC-9's in the fleet. They will get every last cycle out of those 744 birds before they go to the desert.
One can only hope. I've still yet to ride in the upper deck and I *MUST* before I die or they're out of the fleet, whichever comes first!
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8498 posts, RR: 42 Reply 45, posted (10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1251 times:
Quoting seabosdca (Reply 17): I think the 777-9X is the aircraft we should be looking at as a 744 replacement, not because it's new or because the 777-300ER is "old news," but because it will match the capacity of the replaced 744s the closest.
Agreed. However, we must remember DL inherited those 744s, they didn't go out of their way to acquire 747s. Personally I don't see DL replacing them with something the same size. The options you give in your reply #21 are, IMO, what DL will focus on when the time comes.
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Which puts the 77W, and even the 748, in a very desirable position.
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