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FAA "Suspends Opposite-direction Operations"  
User currently offlinebcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 372 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20588 times:

Hi folks-

My apologies if this was posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find anything on it in a quick search.

See the following story (AP) from the Washington Post:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...-11e1-8d48-2b1243f34c85_story.html

I'm trying to wrap my head around exactly how they are going to do this. How exactly are controllers going to be able to turn airports around now? Any thoughts or clarifications would be most welcome.

-bcoz

[Edited 2012-08-07 10:59:35]

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 20494 times:

Excellent media job, 3.5 lateral separation is not the correct standard!
Quoting bcoz (Thread starter):
How exactly are controllers going to be able to turn airports around now?


Actually it is fairly simple, hold inbound aircraft until all the departure traffic left over from the initial flow have left the area then resume arrival traffic in the new flow. Or, hold all the departures and taxi them to the new runway and wait until all the arrivals have landed in the previous flow.

Simple, but at the wrong time of day will be a complete delay machine waiting to happen.

IMHO, creating a national standardized procedure will take forever as some airports will suffer greater penalties due to their airport layout.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinebcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 372 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20415 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
Actually it is fairly simple, hold inbound aircraft until all the departure traffic left over from the initial flow have left the area then resume arrival traffic in the new flow. Or, hold all the departures and taxi them to the new runway and wait until all the arrivals have landed in the previous flow.

Simple, but at the wrong time of day will be a complete delay machine waiting to happen.

I guess that was my thought. I can't imagine the delay consequences of having to turn a high volume airport (ORD, ATL, etc) around. I realize you'd rather be safe than sorry, but man...


User currently offlinestevenlee505 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20367 times:

Wait, so what happens to airports like LAX where they have an 'over-ocean' flow at night for noise abatement? Aircraft generally land on 6R, the north complex while aircraft takeoff on 25R on the south complex.

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20245 times:

Quoting stevenlee505 (Reply 3):
Wait, so what happens to airports like LAX where they have an 'over-ocean' flow at night for noise abatement? Aircraft generally land on 6R, the north complex while aircraft takeoff on 25R on the south complex.

I don't think it's an issue. They are not using the same runway or runway pair for both directions. The procedures have been in place forever at LAX. IIRC, no turns before coastline, all flights departing north complex must turn north, all flights departing south complex must turn south. Arrivals would be vectored the same way, north complex would arrive from North, south complex would arrive from south.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6072 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20236 times:

This is really going to muck up airports that generally have one-way in/one-way out configurations, like Aspen, Sun Valley, and Telluride.


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently onlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4694 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20238 times:

Im guessing with an airport like ATL they could probably switch it over north side, then south side rather than all at once to help avoid/minimize any sort of massive delays.

An airport like LGA/JFK (intersecting) you could probably start to rotate the operation (90 degrees, then 90 degrees again)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20205 times:

Quoting stevenlee505 (Reply 3):
Wait, so what happens to airports like LAX where they have an 'over-ocean' flow at night for noise abatement? Aircraft generally land on 6R, the north complex while aircraft takeoff on 25R on the south complex.

With the FAA there is always a but and exception waivers. I'm wondering if LAX night ops might fall under that category.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMJBATC12 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20182 times:

I think this is a good idea. SInce I know about more of the ATC part of aviation since I'm studying it, some airports actually at night land one way, and depart another, like SDF. At night after 8 or 9pm local time, SDF ATCT lands 17R and departs 35R, or the other way around, something like that. They call that "contra-flow" if none of you know much about ATC. The article on the near trio of collisions at DCA because of "opposite direction operations" is rediculous because it said that PCT (Potomac TRACON) wanted to switch runways, which is incorrect. The LOCAL controller decides which runways and direction an airport will use, not a radar controller/TRACON. Who ever wrote that thing is beyond stupid and doesn't have enough insight into the ATC system and who decides what. It was hilarious when I read that, because DCA ATCT (LC, Local Control position) is the person who decides what an airport will be using flow or runway wise.

Just my $.02. Good move though, a little shaky doing stuff like that at SDF among others especially at night with a busy cargo hub.

[Edited 2012-08-07 11:36:27]


'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 20075 times:

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
The article on the near trio of collisions at DCA because of "opposite direction operations" is rediculous because it said that PCT (Potomac TRACON) wanted to switch runways, which is incorrect. The LOCAL controller decides which runways and direction an airport will use, not a radar controller/TRACON.


If you read and can believe what is written, it mentions weather south of the airport. Well, it just so happens that a TRACON often does and will tell the tower they need to consider changing a flow because of the weather.

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
Who ever wrote that thing is beyond stupid and doesn't have enough insight into the ATC system and who decides what. It was hilarious when I read that, because DCA ATCT (LC, Local Control position) is the person who decides what an airport will be using flow or runway wise.


While I am not a fan of most media as it pertains to different sectors of the aviation industry, it may be wise to not toss rocks based upon who does or does not have knowledge of the ATC system in the U.S.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 6):
Im guessing with an airport like ATL they could probably switch it over north side, then south side rather than all at once to help avoid/minimize any sort of massive delays.


Exactly what should happen at airports with the luxury of having widely spaced parallel runways and more, but we shall see how it shakes out.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19964 times:

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
The LOCAL controller decides which runways and direction an airport will use, not a radar controller/TRACON.

Sir, you need to get off of your high horse. Take a look at N90 - New York Tracon. JFK/LGA/EWR/TEB all have their runways and traffic flows decided by TRACON, not the local controller.


User currently offlineMJBATC12 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19755 times:

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 10):
Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 10):
Sir, you need to get off of your high horse. Take a look at N90 - New York Tracon. JFK/LGA/EWR/TEB all have their runways and traffic flows decided by TRACON, not the local controller

Proof? High horse? Just showing what I know.. And how can N90 decide what runways to use when they're in a dark room where they don't have an active wind guage? That is simply incorrect. LGA has to co-inside with what JFK is using flow wise, and TEB has to do the same with EWR.... you're all wrong, there's some "high horsing" there sir.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
While I am not a fan of most media as it pertains to different sectors of the aviation industry, it may be wise to not toss rocks based upon who does or does not have knowledge of the ATC system in the U.S.

I'm not throwing rocks actually. I'm just pointing out facts that most media don't know much about the air traffic system and how things are determined and used most times. No "rocks" are being thrown.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 9):
If you read and can believe what is written, it mentions weather south of the airport. Well, it just so happens that a TRACON often does and will tell the tower they need to consider changing a flow because of the weather



As to this, you're correct. PCT obviously has to vector aircraft around the weather, but they may "suggest" and see why I said "suggest" in quotations. Tower decides what an airport is using and when to change, not a radar controller in a dark room who doesn't have the proper wind guages and vision of conditions outside of a tower cab... just saying. DCA ATCT is a radar tower, they can very well see the intensity of any sort of weather via scope in the tower. If there is weather blocking an arrival or departure runway, PCT and DCA will coordinate to change the flow, PCT doesn't just get the green light and tell DCA what to use. Very wrong there.

[Edited 2012-08-07 12:23:55]


'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19726 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
This is really going to muck up airports that generally have one-way in/one-way out configurations, like Aspen

As I fly to ASE almost daily, I feel confident in saying that there's no way they could apply this here. We're not authorized to land on 33 and not authorized to take off on 15. I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen aircraft land on 33 or take off on 15. Won't work here.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19669 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 1):
Excellent media job, 3.5 lateral separation is not the correct standard!

Actually the media is not completely off on this. Standard separation between aircraft is 3 nautical miles. This translates to about 3.45 statute miles. Remember, the majority of people in the US use statute miles, not nautical miles.

Sorry to nit pick.

{Peace}



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineMJBATC12 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19647 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 13):
Actually the media is not completely off on this. Standard separation between aircraft is 3 nautical miles. This translates to about 3.45 statute miles. Remember, the majority of people in the US use statute miles, not nautical miles.

Correct, and 1,000 feet vertical separation also  .



'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
User currently onlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1538 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19600 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
This is really going to muck up airports that generally have one-way in/one-way out configurations, like Aspen, Sun Valley, and Telluride.

That's what I was thinking. Someone's knee jerked again.


User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19523 times:

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
SInce I know about more of the ATC part of aviation since I'm studying it,
Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
if none of you know much about ATC.
Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 8):
Who ever wrote that thing is beyond stupid and doesn't have enough insight into the ATC system and who decides what
Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 11):
Proof? High horse? Just showing what I know..

Which isn't much, starting with how to construct a sentence. You may be studying, possibly in a very good school, and, in here you have chosen to run your mouth in the presence of experienced controllers. Learn from what is going to happen to you here, so you don't go through it when/IF you ever make it to OJT.

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 11):
And how can N90 decide what runways to use when they're in a dark room where they don't have an active wind guage?

N90 DOES have a Wind Guage, in FACT, has the current weather at every airport under it's designated airspace. There, and at most large IFR facilities, flow direction is decided on many factors, not just wind. Your impression of a One Man Band incharge of the aerodrome is inaccurate.

[Edited 2012-08-07 12:46:36]


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4838 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19395 times:
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So how will this work at SAN? When runway 09 is in use for arrivals due to visibility, aircraft departing often use 27 to avoid weight restrictions on runway 09. With its one runway SAN is already a cluster-f...now it's really going to get messy.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineMJBATC12 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19383 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
N90 DOES have a Wind Guage, in FACT, has the current weather at every airport under it's designated airspace. There, and at most large IFR facilities, flow direction is decided on many factors, not just wind. Your impression of a One Man Band incharge of the aerodrome is inaccurate.

Thanks for the attack, again, I'm STUDYING sir. I'm just starting, wanna not be so nasty right off the bat? And your second fragment is correct, it is decided on many factors. I'm not starting an "impression of a One Man Band", because I'm going off what I've been told also. I have been in BCT/A90 and Y90 and don't remember seeing a accurate wind guage besides the reading from a METAR on the overhead WX screen for all of the facilities covered by that TRACON..

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
Which isn't much, starting with how to construct a sentence. You may be studying, possibly in a very good school, and, in here you have chosen to run your mouth in the presence of experienced controllers. Learn from what is going to happen to you here, so you don't go through it when/IF you ever make it to OJT.

Sure, I'll be sure to take notes here than in class..... not. This isn't grammar school, it's a forum, I really don't care honestly. This isn't grammar school, and this also a complete waste of my time even responding to this when in reality, I was just sharing what I think, also called an "opinion" and from the small amount that I know so far. Give me a break, I'm just starting out. NO attack or pun intended in my original post, or any of my posts to add also.

[Edited 2012-08-07 12:57:27]

[Edited 2012-08-07 12:58:23]

[Edited 2012-08-07 12:58:54]

[Edited 2012-08-07 13:00:11]


'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
User currently offlineMaddogJT8D From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19289 times:

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 18):
Give me a break, I'm just starting out.

You can get a break by giving those with more knowledge and experience on this board a break first. Your original post came off as condescending and know-it-all on a topic on which you are just "starting out" in, when in fact, the info you are posting is incorrect and has now been verified by at least one other poster regarding N90.

There is much that can be learned from this forum and the great people on it, but it starts with a healthy attitude.


User currently offlineMJBATC12 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19204 times:

Quoting MaddogJT8D (Reply 19):
There is much that can be learned from this forum and the great people on it, but it starts with a healthy attitude.

Alright. Sorry if it came down as condescending, it wasn't intended toward any members here. It was mainly toward the writer of the article about the story. Hopefully you know where I was coming from. I'll take a few notes then   . Again, sorry if anything came down condescending. Re-reading what I wrote, I screwed up. It's been over a year since I've been in a radar facility, just may not have noticed a active wind guage inside the radar room. Sorry again!



'Don't give up, don't ever give up"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 19077 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 13):
Actually the media is not completely off on this. Standard separation between aircraft is 3 nautical miles. This translates to about 3.45 statute miles. Remember, the majority of people in the US use statute miles, not nautical miles.

Sorry to nit pick.


No nit pick detected however, separation is done in NM......just fact.

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 11):
but they may "suggest" and see why I said "suggest" in quotations. Tower decides what an airport is using and when to change, not a radar controller in a dark room who doesn't have the proper wind gauges and vision of conditions outside of a tower cab


You really do know what you know, I'll give you that. Have you ever been inside a TRACON of any size? Well the dark room has many gadgets such as TDWR, TDWR Ribbon Displays which provides the exact same wind information that a tower is receiving, and also the weather on a display the controller is looking at from the TRACON is a better source of seeing what the intensity a thunderstorm could be. A hard rain does obscure the view from a tower cab window from time to time as well as a storm off in the distance.

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 11):
Very wrong there.


I don't believe you are correct. In fact I know from experience.

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 16):
Which isn't much, starting with how to construct a sentence. You may be studying, possibly in a very good school, and, in here you have chosen to run your mouth in the presence of experienced controllers. Learn from what is going to happen to you here, so you don't go through it when/IF you ever make it to OJT.


Well put SPREE and welcome back, I've missed your well thought out responses.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18774 times:

Quoting MJBATC12 (Reply 11):
Proof? High horse? Just showing what I know.. And how can N90 decide what runways to use when they're in a dark room where they don't have an active wind guage? That is simply incorrect. LGA has to co-inside with what JFK is using flow wise, and TEB has to do the same with EWR.... you're all wrong, there's some "high horsing" there sir.

The quote of the day, that one is priceless...

There is an OMIC @ N90 that has forgotten more about ATC, than you'll ever know...

Our NAS is linked in so many ways with different & segregated data streams it's insane; we know what's going on and can prepare for flights sitting on the ground on the west coast, for their arrival into the east coast. We don't have one, if not the most advanced ATC System in the world for nothing.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinerbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 594 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18772 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 5):
This is really going to muck up airports that generally have one-way in/one-way out configurations, like Aspen, Sun Valley, and Telluride.

Unless there is heavy GA traffic during high season, I doubt these places are busy enough for it to be a major problem.


User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18682 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 21):
TDWR

I'd like to see you fit one of those in a tracon...lol



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
25 Post contains images IAHFLYR : It's easy, piece by piece but it has to be a very large TRACON! Boy did you nail me on that one! LMAO Okay, a TDWR display.
26 Post contains images mcoatc : You sound like you lack the correct number of brain cells for rapid promotion within the agency. Here's to hoping that you've not invested too much m
27 cschleic : This happened while I was on a recent AS flight out of Sea-Tac. Traffic was in a south flow. They changed to north flow, and we were the first flight
28 Post contains images RaginMav : And there indeed is! There are eSTMP arrival slot restrictions for Aspen throughout ski season. It will be interesting to see how this is handled. Th
29 IAHFLYR : It could be IF the local facilities were allowed to work out their own procedures, but then the Oversight Office would have to approve every single o
30 Mark2fly1034 : Who ever was asking about Atlanta I spent a night in the hotel over looking the north complex and in the morning they changed ops from east to west an
31 SPREE34 : If you thought that was an attack, the OJT process will have you in tears on Day 1. OK, when you have your first "Deal", tell the Quats office you th
32 SPREE34 : The Federal Aviation Act was signed August 23rd, 1958, so Common Sense went out, at least, 48 years ago.
33 mmedford : Do you remember the "WE" video from a few years ago? There is one of the quotes that I have never forgotten... "When I was growing up, I either wante
34 IAHFLYR : Oh so true and getting more rings each day. Things such as this are not systemic problems yet get treated like them. Oh so true . Things such as the t
35 Post contains images Mir : My first thought when I read this was that ASE is going to get screwed. Hello, delays! -Mir
36 Goldenshield : In the high season, you're going to be IMC the majority of the time---if you want to be safe, and not scud run, that is.
37 Mir : IMC or VMC doesn't really make a difference as to whether the airport is busy or not. I've been in there on a nice VMC day and they were still launch
38 Post contains images Goldenshield : Whoops. Silly me. I read "GA" and "VFR". Gotta eat something, quick! Anyhow, yes, those three cities (SUN, ASE, and TEX) see a LOT of ski traffic, bo
39 COS777 : I suppose it might mean that DEN can't do converging operations, landing on 16L/16R & 35L/35R continuously.
40 jdwfloyd : I've seen dozens of OJTs that came in with you attitude of knowing everything, and watch most of them wash out. A bit of friendly advice, you will kn
41 spiritair97 : I was spotting at PVD on July 27th of last year and they switched the runway while I was there. A US E190 was about to line up to go but the wind swit
42 727forever : And Ray Lahood is the ring master, but what do you expect when you appoint folks who did you political favors into positions of authority rather than
43 DashTrash : ASE, EGE and TEX are slot restricted during the ski season. Not sure who controls those slots, but we see slot numbers on our releases going in there
44 us330 : I can certainly believe that. I can remember significant wait times between takeoffs and landings, and takeoffs and takeoffs. What's the usual proced
45 vinniewinnie : As if Ray Lahood made the decision himself without any input from FAA people! Get real he probably proceeded with what he was advised to do consideri
46 DashTrash : I think it depends on Denver Center's mood, and how many aircraft are coming out of the other airports nearby. Aspen ad Rifle are fairly nearby. They
47 Maverick623 : Likely from a bunch of other political appointees and/or PR hacks. Now you're just sticking your head into the sand. Understaffed facilities and cont
48 runner13 : Well said, very well said. What's scary is that MCATC or whatever his name is will be the one making the rules in a few years.
49 Post contains images OB1504 : You may know more than the average layman, but keep in mind that the typical Airliners.net users knows more about aviation than most people to begin
50 sylvas808 : Typical response to a highly publicized event. An incident happens and someone who hasn't talked to an airplane in ten years makes a knee jerk reactio
51 Post contains images IAHFLYR : If ever! Not sure the exact wording of the NOTICE just yet, but if it doesn't address airports such as DEN, ATL, DFW, , ORD, LAX, IAH, etc., with the
52 NBGSkyGod : The notice is just as vague as anything else put out by the FAA. I doesn't specify what conditions it can and cannot be used, it just says stop doing
53 jdwfloyd : Just read to new Order. This will only apply to same runway operations, with waivers available.
54 IAHFLYR : Stop doing it until you get procedures in place that are contained in the NOTICE, AND get it all approved by God and country. But the NOTICE is title
55 B6JFKH81 : I just read through our daily communication that gets sent out to the entire company and goes through things that are happening in the company and the
56 NBGSkyGod : Once everything is nailed down with new procedures and directives, wavers will be granted to those facilities that require that type of operation and
57 IAHFLYR : It'll longer than what ya think since it has to be all blessed by office after office etc., for each facility individually as it stands now.
58 NBGSkyGod : well thats true...but at least a few weeks to get things going in a direction that will allow for facilities to apply for wavers, then they will be de
59 corey07850 : Not sure about the other Colorado ski airports but got word today that ASE does in fact have an exemption to the new ruling.
60 vinniewinnie : Yes yes Government = bunch of incompetent people we know the lyrics it gets tiring and repetitive!!! Focus on what FAA does bad that is ooooh soo fai
61 PW100 : Not sure if that was meant to be ironic, sarcastic or what. So apologies if this should not be directed at you. Our industry has become so safe as it
62 NBGSkyGod : That's an example of this new rule evolving, as of the other day, all part 139 (airports with aircraft with more than 30 pax) were to cease opposite
63 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Ahh, but NextGen will solve all the problems AND give tools back to those who need them. Yearh right. I will add as SkyGod mentioned, some airports a
64 PW100 : While I could agree with the overraction (not sure if I would want to use your words), all your points are hardly unique for governemnt. I would say
65 mmedford : That one is completely uncalled for... You and I know, there's no difference between a wet behind the ears trainee and his kids...when it comes to wo
66 NBGSkyGod : The only part of NextGen I am looking forward to is the ADS-B display in the tower, that will mean that we finally have a traffic display in the cab.
67 OB1504 : Wouldn't a waiver defeat whatever purpose the move was intended to achieve? Interesting that FLL is on the list, considering that it's at sea level a
68 NBGSkyGod : the waver doesn't mean that you can do a procedure willy nilly, it means that you must establish in writing the procedure that you are going to apply
69 mmedford : no law was broken; all clearances were read back. Plus it was a departure flow, give me a break... hell... 5 years old, isn't much younger than a lot
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