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Weight And Balance Issues With Hand Luggage?  
User currently offlineabrown532 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

I have been wondering this for a while, when airlines use standard weights such as 70kg Female and 88kg Male, this does include their hand baggage.

Fine.

However, especially with Ryanair and Easyjet, who charge so much for checked baggage, people's hand luggage is becoming increasingly heavy and I would wager that for a majority of times, people + hand baggage will be more than the average weights. And I have noticed on airlines with free-seating systems, people generally tend to like sitting more towards the front.

So my question is:

Should the weight and balance of pax + hand luggage be monitored more carefully to avoid a potentially unbalanced/unpredictable aircraft trim?

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4988 posts, RR: 42
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2744 times:

Quoting abrown532 (Thread starter):
Should the weight and balance of pax + hand luggage be monitored more carefully to avoid a potentially unbalanced/unpredictable aircraft trim?

Most country's governing bodies require an "audit" from time to time, to ensure that estimated weights being used, and actual weights occurring are close.

I have on occasion had to step on a scale, attached to a computer in the bridge (as did all passengers and crew), as a part of that audit.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4329 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting abrown532 (Thread starter):
However, especially with Ryanair and Easyjet, who charge so much for checked baggage, people's hand luggage is becoming increasingly heavy and I would wager that for a majority of times, people + hand baggage will be more than the average weights.

In this instance, it would be a wash since whatever isn't carried in the baggage compartment will be carried in the cabin instead, so it won't affect W&B.

Quoting abrown532 (Thread starter):
And I have noticed on airlines with free-seating systems, people generally tend to like sitting more towards the front.

That's a mistaken assumption. Pax will CLAIM the front of an aircraft first on an open-seating system, but that's no different than on an assigned-seating system where pax will SELECT the front of the aircraft first for their seats. In both cases, pax start to claim/select their seats towards the back once aisle and/or window seats towards the front are filled, with the middle seats going last.

[Edited 2012-08-07 17:47:05]


My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

I'm pretty sure for W/B calculations - they assume all the bins will be filled to the near maximum weight capacity.

User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1533 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Quoting redflyer (Reply 2):

In this instance, it would be a wash since whatever isn't carried in the baggage compartment will be carried in the cabin instead, so it won't affect W&B.

Not exactly how it works, it will be accounted for differently in the hold. When offloading a piece of hand-luggage into the hold it has to be tagged and the hold weight updated. Some airlines use the exsact weight which is added to the total weight other use a standard. For instance QR uses 15kg for any piece of gate checked baggage. Interesting to note in many QR ports they have up to 30 pieces of gate baggage as they confiscate so much at the gate due to oversize and over weight hand baggage.

In Australia we are fortunate hold luggage is reasonably priced and generally our security is pretty good (at least internationally) at stopping anything too heavy or too large.


User currently offlineBlueLine From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

For where I work, valet bags are recorded as 20 pounds each. It's not uncommon to get some that would be nearing heavy territory if it was a standard checked bag, but it's balanced out by the backpacks and baby carriers that won't fit onboard. If there are some deadheading crew members, those Luggageworks crew bags that are gate checked aren't light either.

User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Quoting abrown532 (Thread starter):
Should the weight and balance of pax + hand luggage be monitored more carefully to avoid a potentially unbalanced/unpredictable aircraft trim?

Although really outlier hand baggage could throw the weight off by a few thousand pounds, it's very well distributed. The only measurable impact would be a slight shift in takeoff performance (far smaller than the safety factors that are already built in). The CG shift would be pretty benign unless you stuffed all the luggage at one end. Even then, it won't be enough to get out of balance/trim...the flyable envelope is considerably larger than the certified envelope.

Tom.


User currently offlineFI642 From Monaco, joined Mar 2005, 1079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2070 times:

When handbaggage is stowed in the hold, it goes from 15lb magically to 30lb . These are the approved weights with the FAA.


737MAX, Cool Planes for the Worlds Coolest Airline.
User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4329 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 4):
Quoting redflyer (Reply 2):

In this instance, it would be a wash since whatever isn't carried in the baggage compartment will be carried in the cabin instead, so it won't affect W&B.

Not exactly how it works, it will be accounted for differently in the hold. When offloading a piece of hand-luggage into the hold it has to be tagged and the hold weight updated.

Interesting point you bring up and I had to think about it for a moment. But the premise is if a 21" suitcase goes into the baggage compartment, does the weight calculation have to be altered if it instead goes into the overhead bin. On its face, the answer would be no, because all you are doing is taking the 21" bag from below and putting it topside. And the OP's post was asking if W&B have to be recalculated because, in order to get everything into a 21" bag (typical size limit for an overhead bag), people will stuff more into it (make it more dense). All that means is that 50lbs of personal effects will be carried in a 21" bag instead of a 26" bag. The density will be different, but the weight will still be the same. So from an actual W&B standpoint, it should make no difference.

On the other hand, and to the point you make, airlines probably do account for different weights per bag going into the hold vs. overhead bin because the baggage compartment can hold more weight per sqft, and the baggage going into the hold will typically be heavier by virtue of the fact that the reason it's going into the hold is because it is either too big to fit in the overhead bin, or it's simply too heavy for the pax to carry. In other words, on average, the typical bag going into the under-floor hold is heavier - because it's bigger - than the typical bag going into an overhead bin.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
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