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Frontier Announces TTN (Trenton)  
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7362 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fly-fr...top-between-trenton-140000516.html

A couple of questions:

1. Sounds like a good market to tap into, may F9 would consider Denver at some point?
2. Is there TSA at TTN & what kind of start up costs does F9 incure?
3. What kind of ground support is needed for two flights a week? I assume they'll contract the service out.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7256 times:

First GSO and now this? But I tell you what I like the idea...I hope it pans out


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7134 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 1):
First GSO and now this

GSO, TTN...it's like Eastwind all over again!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastwind_Airlines



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinePHLJJS From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7122 times:

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
2. Is there TSA at TTN & what kind of start up costs does F9 incure?

There used to be TSA at Trenton, but they left in 2008 when Comair and E9 ended service. All of the employees were transferred to surrounding airports like PHL, EWR and ACY.

IIRC, ACY TSA is responsible for TTN. If it's only 2 flights a week, ACY TSA will probably seek volunteers to drive up to TTN and work the flights. Or, they could hire a private contractor to handle it.


User currently offlinenkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7125 times:

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):

1. Dont know if DEN is feasible... TTN's longest runway is only 6000', so that might be a factor

2. TSA is not there right now since TTN has not had scheduled service in years... Streamline flies there, but they are public charter and unscreened

3. most likely everything will be contracted out to FBO, most likely GM in PHL will end up doing both I am guessing.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7106 times:

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fly-fr...top-between-trenton-140000516.html

A couple of questions:

1. Sounds like a good market to tap into, may F9 would consider Denver at some point?


I can't see F9 doing DEN with PHL-DEN offered by them already.

I was thinking the other day that ACY-MCO could have been attempted by F9 but maybe F9 didn't want to go up against NK. However, NK offers a very low comfort experience. The operators at ACY would have been able to better advertise the service and NK has already built the airport, while the TTN service may be less noticed.

[Edited 2012-08-08 08:28:18]

User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7058 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 5):
The article mentions that Frontier will be the only airline providing scheduled carrier service out of Trenton-Mercer Airport. But Streamline Air is also there. I can't see F9 doing DEN with PHL-DEN offered already and it is so closeby.

Runway length aside, with such a large, populated area, I would think the traffic would be there to support both (similar to Phoenix).


User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7012 times:

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
1. Sounds like a good market to tap into, may F9 would consider Denver at some point?

If it were that good, why have previous attempts to start service there failed?

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
2. Is there TSA at TTN & what kind of start up costs does F9 incure?

Not sure about TSA, but F9 has been good at getting their costs covered. Probably minimal costs because the airport is begging for any scheduled service.

Quoting seatback (Thread starter):
3. What kind of ground support is needed for two flights a week? I assume they'll contract the service out.

I'm sure they will. Again, the airport may actually be covering the ground handling costs.


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6940 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 6):
Runway length aside, with such a large, populated area, I would think the traffic would be there to support both (similar to Phoenix).

Isn't PHL-DEN already competitive with US vs. UA vs. WN vs. F9? If F9 is very profitable on the PHL-DEN route, then it's fine but if F9 is barely getting by, relying a lot on connections, I can't see opening TTN-DEN as helpful.

I also think the TTN-MCO route might dilute the buildup of ABE. If one is in Bridgewater,NJ or Willow Grove, PA, both services are ~1 hour away but under 90 mins. From Edison, NJ, TTN might be closer than ABE or ACY, but Edison already has close access to EWR, and 1 train access to EWR, where JetBlue likely keeps fares reasonable to MCO. PHL with a choice of WN isn't that far either by drive. TTN also isn't that Turnpike accessible (PA or NJ), requiring a detour, and will require more advertisement of service.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6893 times:

Quoting toltommy (Reply 7):
If it were that good, why have previous attempts to start service there failed?

A few thoughts on that:

1) I don't think there was ever a nonstop service to Florida from TTN. At least not on Eastwind.
2) There's never been service to DEN, if that's a possibility. MDT is working well with that.
3) Frontier, despite its ups and downs, is still longer-lived and established than any airline that's attempted TTN.

-Rampart


User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5839 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6854 times:

Quoting nkops (Reply 4):
Dont know if DEN is feasible... TTN's longest runway is only 6000', so that might be a factor

An A319 shouldn't have a problem with that.


User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2366 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
3) Frontier, despite its ups and downs, is still longer-lived and established than any airline that's attempted TTN.

As mentioned, OH use to fly out of TTN to ATL and BOS for Delta Connection. It is hard to say if this service will work, Frontier really isn't the strongest brand in the Northeast or the Northeast-Florida market, but they do fly some odd routes like MDT-MCO. I don't know how strong those routes are performing though.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6456 times:

I like the idea; I think the route will be profitable if it is advertised, and if fares are kept reasonable. Now F9 either needs to let people connect to other flights in MCO or establish a flight to DEN. Doing that would really increase the load factor of the flights IMO (although as others have mentioned, that is a very populated area, so O&D traffic alone may be enough to sustain the flight) Who knows, maybe we'll get some other carriers into TTN if F9's service succeeds (are you listening, WN?).

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3828 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6455 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
1) I don't think there was ever a nonstop service to Florida from TTN. At least not on Eastwind.

G4 has never served TTN, either, so if there was service to Florida from TTN, it was most likely charters of some sort.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinecaleb1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6366 times:
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Quoting nkops (Reply 4):
Dont know if DEN is feasible... TTN's longest runway is only 6000', so that might be a factor

I know that UA flies nonstop from SNA to EWR and SNA's main runway is about 5750ft. I know that this is flying to the east with favorable winds, but I still think the flt from TTN to DEN could be done as well; even with the headwinds. This is a moot point however, because I don't see it happening anyway. Never say never though.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6274 times:

I think it's fair to say MCO is the biggest winner in all these East coast announcements as of lately.


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 2):
it's like Eastwind all over again!

Lol. Awesome.

I was thinking the exact same thing...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6079 times:

WOW

I was just wishing ACY could get Frontier i never thought that TTN had a chance. This is great news!

I said it before but Frontier truly seems willing to try anything new to try to get some actual cash producing routes. At least they are trying some new stuff lets give them some major credit! i think purely staying in denver is a long painful death long term. This will either accelerate frontiers slow death of denver only or produce some really unusual and competition free routes that actual print cash. I really hope they can make TTN work! I bet its MCO i think frontier knows they need a second city after being chased out of MKE. I doubt they want to link Trenton to Denver.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6042 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
) I don't think there was ever a nonstop service to Florida from TTN. At least not on Eastwind.
2) There's never been service to DEN, if that's a possibility. MDT is working well with that.
3) Frontier, despite its ups and downs, is still longer-lived and established than any airline that's attempted TTN.

1.Eastwind certainly flew from TTN to FLorida. IIRC Orlando Jacksonville and west palm beach

3. delta and usairways both served TTN? still the airline you buy tickets from and who everyone in the real world considers the serving airline. People dont get off a SLC-RNO flight and say i flew in on skywest.

TTN at least use to offer FREE parking that you can walk to the plane. That is huge in the crowded northeast and will attract a certain following. Long term parking at EWR is $18 a day and requires often an overly full uncomfortable bus with more than half the people standing and its super inconsistent on times. I have definitely waited for over an hour to get on that bus when they kept coming thru full to then be packed like a sardine. Plus the security will be just for your flight and super easy setup for frequent snowbirds.

They use to fill the 737s to Florida and had a very loyal following. TTN is actually a nice facility and has nice room on the inside. I will be very interested to hear the details as to what will open the restaurant etc. I am keeping my fingers crossed and will certainly buy a ticket. Its such an easy airport compared to EWR

[Edited 2012-08-08 14:14:42]

User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 11):
Frontier really isn't the strongest brand in the Northeast or the Northeast-Florida market, but they do fly some odd routes like MDT-MCO.

Frontier will be operating on average 5 flights a day, from various locations, to MCO. TTN-MCO, or MDT-MCO, isn't a one-off for them at this point.

Quoting Polot (Reply 11):
As mentioned, OH use to fly out of TTN to ATL and BOS for Delta Connection.

And that lasted a year, maybe 2. A regional operator with fairly high fares to a hub would be easy to undercut from PHL and EWR, and easy to not be profitable. I don't understand the multiple attempts at TTN-Boston, when the train is both more convenient to Trenton (and/or Princeton) and in some cases faster.

-Rampart


User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 803 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6019 times:

And people say NK has a dartboard...

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5997 times:

This is a nice surprise, I've been waiting for G4 to enter TTN but this is a nice addition nonetheless. TTN geographically is a near perfect location for a reliever/LCC airport (whatever you want to call it). It sits almost exactly halfway between NYC and PHL right off of I-95. It's even closer to NYC than SWF, and easily accessible from Central New Jersey and Bucks/Montgomery County PA.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

Its just nice to see an airline serving the airport and a reason to keep the facilities maintenance up. This is my favorite thread on a.net of 2012 i cant wait to use the airport again. I really hope this one lasts and frontier doesn't loose interest in MCO

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 19):
Quoting Polot (Reply 11):
As mentioned, OH use to fly out of TTN to ATL and BOS for Delta Connection.

And that lasted a year, maybe 2. A regional operator with fairly high fares to a hub would be easy to undercut from PHL and EWR, and easy to not be profitable. I don't understand the multiple attempts at TTN-Boston, when the train is both more convenient to Trenton (and/or Princeton) and in some cases faster.

I know about OH's short-lived TTN-ATL service (no-brainer on that one given the outrageous fares and virtually no advertising). When did they fly TTN-BOS? If it was between the time that FL halted PHL-BOS in Nov. 2007 but prior to WN starting the route in 2011 (it sadly lasted less than a year); WN, at the time, still offered PHL-PVD/MHT as an affordable BOS alternative.

To their credit, Streamline's been trying to capitalize on giving business travelers an affordable Philly Area (TTN) - Boston Area (BED) airline service since WN dropped all its PHL-New England routes earlier this year. At present, TTN's the only airport within 30 to 35 miles from PHL that offers airline service. Granted, Streamline could've chosen ILG as well.

Barring airline/airport delays; scheduled PHL-BOS service via Amtrak still takes longer than flying even w/the Acela.

NK also offers ACY-BOS but its schedule's a bit too limited... especially for day-trippers.

Back to the topic at hand, nice to see TTN finally has a more mainstream LFC coming in. Who knows, should UA, US and/or WN ultimately chase F9 out of PHL; maybe one could see TTN-DEN service added down the road.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 18):
TTN at least use to offer FREE parking that you can walk to the plane.

According to Mercer County's website, they still do.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5907 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 18):
1.Eastwind certainly flew from TTN to FLorida. IIRC Orlando Jacksonville and west palm beach

Yes, but not, as I mentioned, nonstop from TTN. It was briefly a one-stop, but mostly a connect in GSO. Unless I'm missing a timetable. I forgot about USAir (and commuters) and Allegheny. I can't recall any service they had TTN to Florida, they did have nonstops to PIT, DCA, and... PHL! (And up until the early 80s USAir still served North Philadelphia airport.) I'm with you on the ease of use at TTN, and I hope F9 has some success. I hope to that the terminal has something more than vending machines for snacks that I had on my one time through.

-Rampart


25 mariner : Of which, the "star" route may be ABE-MCO. It began at the end of May with 2 x weekly and is doubling to 4 x weekly in October. TTN should do so well
26 Buddys747 : MDT-MCO is the most popular route out of Harrisburg. If F9 had more aircraft, I think we would see daily to 2x daily in peak periods.FL was running 2
27 Post contains images mariner : I was wondering if Frontier would take over Airtran's CRW-MCO, but I guess not. Not to worry - TTN-MCO scratches my itch. mariner
28 crj900lr : And I hear the ticket counter/gate and ramp service that is used by FL and F9 at MDT is top-notch. Not to bad for a contract company.
29 flyjoe : TTN shouldnt draw away from ABE. They are they're own markets. Getting to TTN is not easy to do from the Lehigh Valley and most areas of Bucks County
30 spiritair97 : Being sommebody who has flown NK more than I want to, as my username will tell you, I can tell you that I have been on F9 and NK planes for 4 hours a
31 ROSWELL41 : The funny thing is that F9 is trying to become NK in their transition to an ULCC. I would venture to say that those amenities on F9 will have a price
32 jerseyguy : I would definately try F9 for my winter trip to Orlando. My only concern is the 2x weekly service, it might be hard to make work. It would cut 1/2 hou
33 superjeff : I wonder - does this new route for F9 involve some tour operator blocking seats? Frontier has done a lot of that in the last couple of years, so their
34 sw733 : I wonder if they'd have any success with a DEN-MDW-TTN-MDW-DEN route.
35 kgaiflyer : Back in the late 60s, I taught school across the river from Trenton -- but in Pennsylvania. Then the area was a "silk-stocking" suburb to both Philad
36 tommy767 : Yeah really, me too! Although I live in Warren so I'm about 15 minutes from EWR and about 40-50 from TTN. I can go from my front door to terminal A i
37 Flytravel : The area of overlap would be NW NJ, even far east by Bridgewater which is developed, and Montgomery County PA (Plymouth Meeting-Horsham-Doylestown).
38 bjorn14 : I might have chosen ILG over TTN, unless they're trying to capture the Princton market too. But good to see F9 thinking outside the box.
39 flyjoe : TTN provides F9 with a lot larger of a population base to pull from. If you're in Central / NW NJ, the option to drive to TTN instead of EWR for a va
40 jerseyguy : I wonder how many flights TTN could expand before the NIMBYs revolt and ruin it? Would love to see WN try 2X BWI 2XMDW but F9 needs to do well first b
41 PHLBOS : Personal take: as long as WN is at PHL, I don't see them setting up shop at either TTN or ILG. Unlike NYC-area airports, PHL is not slot-restricted.
42 AVLAirlineFreq : Slightly off-topic, but since we're talking the general neighborhood of Trenton and eastern PA, did Allegheny Commuter serve Northeast Philadelphia ai
43 Post contains links mariner : At least NJ.com is onside: http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/inde...ditorial_frontier_airlines_fl.html "Editorial: Frontier Airlines flights from Trent
44 Post contains images point2point : I think that runway permitting, DEN-TTN should be the next route out of TTN if TTN-MCO shows good results. I believe that both DEN-PHL/TTN are doable
45 Post contains links rampart : Yes. I've seen schedules as late as the mid-80s. (That would be USAir, but a continuation of Allegheny.) Ransome Airlines, possibly Suburban as the c
46 stasisLAX : And I believe Tampa as well - I remember a family member that lived in the New Hope PA area flying Eastwind a couple of times to visits our elderly r
47 mariner : I got your sarcasm (duh). It was posted in response to the concern about nimby. mariner
48 AVLAirlineFreq : Thanks! Very interesting--the linked timetable shows 6 flights a day, with 5 to PHL (a 15 minute flight) and 1 to DCA. I would have thought all of th
49 N62NA : Glad to see TTN getting scheduled service from one of today's major airlines![Edited 2012-08-10 19:53:10]
50 STT757 : Warren twp. Which is 20 miles from EWR down 78 or 22.
51 N62NA : Yep, just realized that's what he probably meant, so I amended my post. For Warren County I would think the new TTN service might be a nice alternati
52 PHLBOS : Didn't TWExpress also fly out of PNE as well during the 80s? U5 shut down a while ago. F9 picked up some of their PHL flights w/A320s along with what
53 rampart : Interesting. I had to research this. No TWExpress that I've found in the 80s, but as recently 1995 Ransome Airlines was serving PNE-JFK (according to
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