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Air Berlin 66.2mln Euro Loss In Q2  
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1364 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

Just FYI
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...rlin-results-idUSL6E8J8EI220120808

It's always fuel (understandable) and of course german air travel tax (which is lower this year than it was last, although only marginally). While I like AB from a passenger side of view I don't understand their strategy (if there is one).

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19236 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting reifel (Thread starter):
I don't understand their strategy (if there is one).

Indeed, AB is a highly 'stuck-in-the-middle-airline' that doesn't know what it wants to be. This is a highly dangerous area strategy-wise.

Alas, AB suffers dreadfully from poor financial performance. Between 2004 and 2011, it made an operating loss in 4 years and a net loss in 6 years. In 2011 it made its worse operating and net loss; in terms of its operating loss it was €247m.

Quoting reifel (Thread starter):
While I like AB from a passenger side of view I

Me too. I enjoyed my STN-TXL-MUC-DUS-STN flights.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25740 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Begs the question - now what ?

Cant blame fuel forever. AB like others need to come to accept the new normal in regards to fuel.

Seems to me their 2010 strategic overhaul is not producing much change in the area of finances.
Still as messy as ever trying to be 3-4 type of airlines all in one.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
Begs the question - now what ?

Cant blame fuel forever. AB like others need to come to accept the new normal in regards to fuel.

Seems to me their 2010 strategic overhaul is not producing much change in the area of finances.
Still as messy as ever trying to be 3-4 type of airlines all in one.

Well, apparently they are still suffering from a very bad deal with TUI. When they took over TUIfly in 2009 (and parent company TUI became a 10% or so shareholder of AB), they agreed on a long term leasing deal für TUIfly aircraft, including crew, who now operate under the AB brand, but at considerably higher costs. That money goes to TUI. SPIEGEL estimates a resulting loss of about EUR 100 m p.a.

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-86752082.html

(A chart in that article shows the chronological relation between leasing deal and their poor financial performance lately.)



One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25740 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Sounds like the carrier to reduce debt and improve liquidity will sell 8 narrow-body aircraft to generate €300 million by years end.

Air Berlin to sell planes as finances crumble
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...lin-earnings-idUSLNE87E01R20120815

Air Berlin to sell eight aircraft to reduce debt
http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...l-eight-aircraft-reduce-debt-0816?

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3051 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Sounds like the carrier to reduce debt and improve liquidity will sell 8 narrow-body aircraft to generate €300 million by years end.

Neither article says if this would be a sale/lease-back or if this would further shrink the fleet. Any insights? Not that I trust Wikipedia, but other than the stored A319's (double overwing exits good for Allegiant high-density expansion??), nothing looks like the obvious frames to reduce.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25740 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

Shrink fleet -

Article says --
By the end of June, AB reduced its fleet to 152 from 165 in the year-ago period. By year end, its fleet will be reduced to 144 aircraft.

152-144 = 8

Sounds like the 8 are departing the fleet for good.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):

Ah, thanks. I missed that.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Article says --
By the end of June, AB reduced its fleet to 152 from 165 in the year-ago period. By year end, its fleet will be reduced to 144 aircraft

Yes it is the second time they are reducing their fleet to fix the finances, but I read some place (can't remember now) that some of those aircraft will be shifted to Niki. I guess it was not true.
The continually moving date of opening BBI does not help them as well as the fact that their route map has major white areas.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25740 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2695 times:

Also apparently, Etihad loaned AB $250mil to help make predelivery payments for 787s.
Seems they believe AB can achieve an operating profit in 2013.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-turnaround-at-air-berlin-375597/

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSenatorflyer From UK - England, joined Jul 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2314 times:

Another interesting read:

http://xpectonblog.com/2012/08/21/bu...etering-on-the-edge-of-bankruptcy/


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1996 times:

Etihad wants to get rid of Air Berlin´s CEO:

Link in German:http://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehmen/handel-dienstleister/grossaktionaer-etihad-air-berlin-chef-mehdorn-soll-gehen/7044334.html



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 11):

Just started a new thread on the matter, sorry.


@ Mods, feel free to merge the threads.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineSheridan125 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1755 times:

With AB's abysmal financial performance and no obvious strategy it is baffling why anyone should invest in the company or loan it money. Putting money into AB cannot posibly be the best use of Etihad's funds. The news from AB is bound to get worse. What, for example is going to happen to their outstanding aircraft orders? Presumably they will have to be cancelled because AB may not be able to finance them. With an unknown opening date for BER what is the business effect going to be on AB over the next year of that debacle. Probably terrible. A year or two back I was involved in nursing an airline that was in financial intensive care. It looks to me that the ambulance for AB might be on standby. I hope not but the signs look very poor.

User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

So there is a lot of speculation about a change of management, the latest rumor is that EY wants one of their own people to become the new CEO, someone with "airline experience"


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
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