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Allegiant Ending LAX-BIL / FSD / PSC  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7133 times:

All 3 routes end August 31st per announcement today.

Unlike normal routes which get chopped due to profitability, these are being dropped as G4 finds itself gateless at LAX.

Long story, but G4's initial terminal (T6) at LAX was taken over by Alaska in March, and since the carrier had to move in and be handled by Delta Airlines at T5. This has been a less than ideal situation cost and service wise.

Story:
http://www.kimatv.com/news/local/165628826.html
and
http://billingsgazette.com/news/loca...6-c4d9-5ff5-be4b-4010ba644f58.html

=

[Edited 2012-08-09 15:51:22]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7693 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7124 times:

Is G4 shutting LAX??

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7081 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Unlike normal routes which get chopped due to profitability, these are being dropped as G4 finds itself gateless at LAX.

There have also been some other unusual drops in the past on other, bigger airlines.

DL dropped FWA-MSP due to runway construction at MSP in 2009 that would have caused delays, but resumed the route several months later when construction was done. The resumption of FWA-MSP was initially on a summer seasonal basis, then made permanent after FWA-CVG was discontinued. Currently, it is 2x daily for the summer, but will revert to 1x daily for the fall and winter.

As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7029 times:

No they will still have 6-7 markets for the fall from LAX at the moment.

G4 has a bit of odd scheduling with multiple flights almost on top of each other. DL notified them they cant handle and allocate gate space come 9/1 so G4 had to thin the schedule out.

Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.

As they say, no money, no honey   



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13543 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6887 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.

   I don't think G4 will pay enough to open a terminal back up again...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.

As they say, no money, no honey

Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6814 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 2):
As for G4, I wonder if they will start looking at alternate airports for the LA basin. As much as they get panned here on a.net for their treatment of ONT, maybe LAWA can cut them a similar or better deal there so the terminals there can be used for more than just filming TV commercials.

BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work, ONT would be the only other option in the greater Los Angeles area that G4 could relocate to, if they needed or wanted to. I have always said it was short sighted of them to ditch their LGB slots. I know they could not support their entire LA basin operation via LGB, I hope they will add the flights back when they can, I'm sure the travelling folks in those communities would appreciate it.



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User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 6803 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
I don't think G4 will pay enough to open a terminal back up again...

Didn't G4 pay for most of the AZA terminal expansion?

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

  



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6392 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work, ONT would be the only other option in the greater Los Angeles area that G4 could relocate to, if they needed or wanted to

Just prior to the announcement of LAX, the rumor/thought/hope (you pick) was that they were going to open SBD. As far removed from the attractions of the region as SBD is, I understand why it or ONT might not be viable options.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6364 times:

Why (other than cost) couldn't G4 use LAX Terminal 2? When I was there in May (on Sun Country) it was pretty empty and will be even more empty once NZ and AF move out.

User currently offlineBeardown91737 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 7):
Just prior to the announcement of LAX, the rumor/thought/hope (you pick) was that they were going to open SBD. As far removed from the attractions of the region as SBD is, I understand why it or ONT might not be viable options.

Depends on the attraction. According to Google Maps, the ONT to Disneyland and LAX to Disneyland distances are within a couple miles of each other. I mostly see G4 pax as Disneyland/Orange County visitors, with Hollywood/Universal Studios/Beverly Hills being a side trip. The "Los Angeles" vacations on G4's website are (not surprisingly) tilted toward Orange County and Disneyland. ONT also happens to have available gates and ticket counter space. LAX neighbors would probably not miss the MD80 noise, or the dozens of carloads of tourists diverted off their roadways.

SBD is about 20 miles east of ONT, but it is closer to Palm Springs. In 2010, the Development Agency was offering $2M for 2 years + $1M in startup costs to the first two airlines to offer 12 flights a week. However within the last year that funding vanished in one of our state's numerous budget crises.



135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6196 times:

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 9):
nds on the attraction. According to Google Maps, the ONT to Disneyland and LAX to Disneyland distances are within a couple miles of each other. I mostly see G4 pax as Disneyland/Orange County visitors, with Hollywood/Universal Studios/Beverly Hills being a side trip. The "Los Angeles" vacations on G4's website are (not surprisingly) tilted toward Orange County and Disneyland. ONT also happens to have available gates and ticket counter space. LAX neighbors would probably not miss the MD80 noise, or the dozens of carloads of tourists diverted off their roadways.

Well, from personal experience ONT has worked fine for me - in a pinch - to go to Disneyland/Orange County but I ususally use Long Beach. I actually haven't been through LAX in years. If ONT is truly equidistant, I guess that's good.

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 9):
SBD is about 20 miles east of ONT, but it is closer to Palm Springs. In 2010, the Development Agency was offering $2M for 2 years + $1M in startup costs to the first two airlines to offer 12 flights a week. However within the last year that funding vanished in one of our state's numerous budget crises.

I find ONT to be a perfectly suitable gateway to Palm Springs so SBD would not seem to offer too much - closer to the desert but much further away from the attractions.

I enjoy ONT and wish it would have more success. The economy out that way seems to really be in the dumps.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

I am quite sure ONT would be happy to play ball and offer low landing fees and other offers to attract a large operation like G4, leaving the possibility of ONT-HNL service, in fact I'm surprised G4 has not announced the route. It seems with BOI and GEG being announced from HNL, G4 is not afraid of starting new unproven markets with flights to and from HNL.
If G4 can't get what they want from LAX go elsewhere, they are no strangers to using secondary airports AZA, BLI, SFD why not ONT? G4's cheap needs could likely be met out there, and plenty of space to accommodate the current schedule plus room to expand with little restraint.



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User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6036 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Problem is, for the right money G4 can find a home at LAX, however with their thriftiness this is a bit of a challenge.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
Alas, their model is built on being *cheap*!

On one side, cutting these routes right at Labor Day weekend and screwing over vacations for a number of customers is not the smartest business sense for a small market -- one could argue they could easily make other accomodations, especially at least for Labor Day weekend and then ease out of the markets if needed. On the other side, the sudden reduction of service *at* Labor Day weekend could be seen as a bellwether for market performance.

Pick your poison.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 11):
If G4 can't get what they want from LAX go elsewhere, they are no strangers to using secondary airports AZA, BLI, SFD why not ONT? G4's cheap needs could likely be met out there, and plenty of space to accommodate the current schedule plus room to expand with little restraint.

You do know that ONT is slot restricted and has serious noise rules that are not favorable to the MD80's series of planes that G4 currently has.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5793 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 13):
You do know that ONT is slot restricted and has serious noise rules that are not favorable to the MD80's series of planes that G4 currently has.

I find that incredibly unlikely given the dearth of service and the UPS hub there. Perhaps you were kidding but forgot the smiley?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Sorry I was thinking SNA! My bad.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineStapleton From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 281 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Wasn't Allegiant going to end Billings - Los Angeles service in November anyway? Missoula - Los Angeles still shows ending in November along with Northwest Arkansas - Los Angeles.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5470 times:

Allegiant does lots more than bring tourist to LA basin.

In one of their earning calls they had a chart that showed that the LA flights had a surprisingly high component of local sales of people that opted to travel on G4 to many of these smaller communities.

Moving to an ONT or SBD would virtually kill that side of the business for G4.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
Didn't G4 pay for most of the AZA terminal expansion?

They funded some of the first terminal expansion, which was needed but a FAA grant is funding the second expansion which is going on now.

How many gates does AS have in T6? Also since DL is handling AS now (correct?) DL is parking planes at T6 as well?

[Edited 2012-08-10 11:51:34]


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7564 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Pretty sure the old NW gates are sitting wide open and have been for quite sometime.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26150 posts, RR: 50
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
How many gates does AS have in T6?

Its a bit variable as they have preferential use of a couple also. But essentially they could have up to 8 at time, but the schedule does not call for anything as busy.
Also FIS is open till 7pm. After they go to TBIT.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
Also since DL is handling AS now (correct?)

No DL has nothing to do with AS handling in T6. They have their own staff above wing, and Menzies below.


Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 18):
DL is parking planes at T6 as well?

Yes but rarely these days.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4510 times:

I suspect G4 will move to T-3 in due course, once the renovations are completed.


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4355 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 5):
BUR and SNA obviously wouldn't work,

Why not BUR? Farther from Disney, yes, but is that it?

-Rampart


User currently offlinetreebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 671 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4290 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 22):
Why not BUR? Farther from Disney, yes, but is that it?

I would think lack of space as BUR is pretty compact, and is kept pretty busy with the current schedule. The other reason is noise, The MD-80 would probably not be looked at favorably by the locals.



Allons-y!
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 2007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4220 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Allegiant does lots more than bring tourist to LA basin.

In one of their earning calls they had a chart that showed that the LA flights had a surprisingly high component of local sales of people that opted to travel on G4 to many of these smaller communities.

Moving to an ONT or SBD would virtually kill that side of the business for G4.

Maybe things have changed but I thought G4 really didn't want people who are buying an airline ticket only. The company makes it's money of ancillary revenue and that the airlines was just a means to an end. I thought rental cars, hotel rooms, etc are where the cash comes in.


25 CIDFlyer : AA flew MD80s there for years and only just recently pulled out. BUR would be nice, still close to everything like Hollywood, Universal Studios. Woul
26 rampart : I haven't been there in years -- it used to be my local airport -- but in the 90's the place was hopping, with AA, WN, HP, , DL, and AS operating mul
27 dlramp4life : Who is currently in T3? Doesn't G4 only use two gates in LAX?
28 Beardown91737 : BUR would work for G4 also. It is only a few miles further from OC than ONT or LAX is, and the CPE probably about 25% of those other airports. Makes
29 iowaman : Certainlly disappointing to see these routes cut. I'm assuming these were routes that were overlapping other higher performing routes. This leaves the
30 LAXintl : G4 is free to try BUR, there is vacant space, and low rents, however from what I gather that would have performance issues with the MD-80 at BUR and i
31 GentFromAlaska : If memory serves me RIV (March Air Force Joint Reserve Base) and ONT are close to each other. Do both facilities share runways or are they two separat
32 Beardown91737 : OK back to ONT for G4. My mistake, I was reading "local sales people". Maybe they will follow G4 to ONT, since not everyone who gets on a plane at LA
33 aaway : Jetblue, Spirit, Virgin America, Virgin Australia. Alaska's 40 (+/-) arrivals/departures have been backfilled by only approximately 20 arrivals/depar
34 CIDFlyer : how many seats did AA's MD80's have? They used to fly to DFW from there.
35 LAXintl : 140. When temps were very high, or winds kicked in needing runway 33, AA would have to make short hop over to ONT, LAS, PSP etc before continuing.
36 Post contains links FATFlyer : I don't remember more recent info, but this Sept 2009 presentation slide put LAX at 35% reverse (outbound) traffic. http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar
37 dbo861 : Is DSM still operating? Their website doesn't show any flights available after 8/12.
38 iowaman : That's impressive. I believe a few years ago I read that LAS was just in the single digits. Good catch! It looks like LAX-FAR is suspended from now u
39 FATFlyer : The same 2009 slide put LAS at about 14% at that time.
40 stlgph : Last conference call did state Allegiant was wanting to boost Orlando departures by 20% - planes have to come from somewhere. Personally would have l
41 Stapleton : A couple of corrections: IDA returns 11/16 MSO ends 11/12 XNA ends 11/11 This would leave the following after the middle of November I believe: BLI E
42 SANFan : I don't know if this thread is about a failing operation at a SoCal airport or just a temporary setback there due to space and money issues. Probably
43 stlgph : If Allegiant wouldn't had been cheap and had put some money forward and made an investment, they could have staked a claim to their own space. Instea
44 Post contains images LAXintl : For those that say G4 should look at a secondary airport in LA basin, you forget that G4 already had that opportunity and settled on LAX on two occasi
45 FATFlyer : Allegiant historically has not been afraid to say why routes are being cancelled, sometimes upsetting locals with the honesty. I expect space is this
46 RWA380 : Quite the opposite, ONT is the only other LA area airport that could even come close to handling G4's operation vs LAX. I've noticed the same thing i
47 Beardown91737 : I don't know if the extra 25 miles LAX-LGB was that big a deal, but considering it is on the 405, maybe it was. It would seem that B6 wanted some rel
48 LAXintl : 25-miles mattered as overnight B6 saw jumps in yield as the door was opened to a whole new market and population base which would never venture to a
49 FATFlyer : Maybe, but only if costs at ONT drop. I think too many people confuse Allegiant's model. They go into the lower cost airport in their destination cit
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